Jonathan Bell
Strangford · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I did so because terminally ill children were being prevented from getting a hospital place in my area. While attempts were being made to prevent me from coming to the Public Accounts Committee, a terminally ill child was told, after being seen by doctors, that they could not have a hospital place and that, if they needed one, they would…”
“The permanent secretary replied "No" and said that everybody would recognise that every government worked by and on collective responsibility. <BR /> <BR />We are in a mess, and somebody has to shine a light on that mess. It fell to me, and I do not know why. I did not seek it, nor did I want it. I did not want to do it.”
“Let me conclude, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. The regulations are necessary because of the extreme mess that we have found ourselves in. The points that I made when I had to shine a light on this devastating situation were not made in December. The points were made in writing to the then First Minister in March 2016.”
“The permanent secretary replied, "Well, that is right". <BR /> <BR />There were no regulations on the table when I spoke out. There was no suggestion that we could reduce to zero or even significantly reduce the costs, and we had no legal procedure, that I was aware of, that we could have followed.”
“But I cannot speak authoritatively because, even after the Public Accounts Committee meeting, when I asked the permanent secretary last week whether I could come and see the information that, I believe, legally should be made available to me, I got no reply. Nothing.”
“The second objective that I wanted to achieve was to stop the haemorrhage of public funds. Let us not pretend that the money is still to be spent: tens of millions of pounds of taxpayers' money has already been spent — £85,000 a day, day by day, as we go along.”
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“— about people who are sitting beside them and behind them and much more serious offences.”
“This party has suspended me for telling the truth while I gave the First Minister, the deputy leader and the chairman of the party all the information —”
“With an adjournment of a week, I am saying that these matters can be investigated in this week alongside the very first piece of information given to me in a ministerial office by the DUP party officer who was appointed as a special adviser, Timothy Cairns, which was that I would not be allowed to reduce the tariff on the scheme because Timothy Johnston, the special adviser to the then First Minister, and John Robinson, at that time the DUP director of communications and now the special adviser to the Economy Minister, had such extensive interests in the poultry industry that it was not allowed to be on my ministerial agenda. I have the information, Mr Speaker, and I have kept the records in many formats.”
“These matters need to be deeply investigated —”
“<BR /> <BR />I also want a very major concern read into the record of the House that an instruction went out from DUP special advisers John Robinson, currently special adviser to the Economy Minister, and Andrew Crawford, the current special adviser to Michelle McIlveen, to try not to get Arlene called to the Public Accounts Committee, but:”
“Given that this incurs no cost to the public purse and allows us to see whether what is occurring is legal — there are, rightly, many concerns around Northern Ireland — it is only right that we take the time to get this right rather than rush it. <BR /> <BR />Many people have asked me why, in 20 years of elected politics, I spoke for the first time in the fashion that I did. I would like it read into the record of the House that I spoke for the first time in the fashion that I did because journalists were able to conclusively prove to me that they had contacted the Democratic Unionist Party's press office day after day after day and were being fed back misinformation that Jonathan Bell was unavailable.”
“I like the fact that, in every way that I have looked at this, due to the expertise in our Civil Service, we will today, from all sides of the House, deliver for the most vulnerable people the best that we can in the circumstances. <BR /> <BR />I started by saying that we must always stand by the most vulnerable. I can see no better way to do that than to do what is now proposed.”
“That is a strong word but it is the right word: there are people out there who are oppressed by poverty. <BR /> <BR />Like Christopher Stalford, I grew up in working-class Belfast. We know what it was like in those days to be given a different colour dinner ticket than the next person. That is because society decided that there was a need to give help to families. With social housing and regulations that can help people, there is no alternative but to go with these regulations. In so doing, we will give the very best to the most oppressed people. It should hurt and anger all of us, as I believe it angers God, when people are socially oppressed by poverty, have difficulty finding a house for their families and dealing with the very basic need of shelter. I like the fact that the measures are merited and targeted.”
“We all wanted to do more but were determined never to make the perfect the enemy of the possible. Let me say that again: we were determined never to make the perfect the enemy of the possible. All of us wanted to do more but were not going to let that want stop us from doing anything at all. <BR /> <BR />The regulations have been very carefully crafted. I have watched civil servants, some of whom are in the House today, in Committee and at other times, when I had the privilege of sitting in the Northern Ireland Executive, work through the detail of what could be done, long into the night and the early hours of the morning. That is why I welcome the regulations because they are the best possible answer from Northern Ireland to the people who are oppressed.”
“<BR /> <BR />The regulations before us have to look at how we give merit to people to mitigate the disadvantage that they endure. We cannot spend the same pound twice. It is not the time for Alice-in-Wonderland politics and pretending that there is money out there that we do not have. All that does is to lead the most vulnerable people into a sense of false hope that something can be done, when everyone in the House knows that it cannot be done. <BR /> <BR />I pay tribute to Professor Eileen Evason and her team and those who had the vision to look at what devolution could do for Northern Ireland. Professor Evason is one of the foremost experts in the British Isles on welfare policy, and, on our behalf, she examined how we could help the most vulnerable in our society.”
“In earlier debates in the House, when we looked at the number of social houses being predicted by the Housing Executive and others of 8,800, we were right to say, "Let us try to do better". We did that and sought 9,600 social houses. Is that number adequate? There will always be an infinite demand on the public service to be met by a finite level of public resource. When we look at social justice, we have to look at the money that has been allocated to us and our stewardship of it. <BR /> <BR />Later today, we will look at one of the gravest financial scandals — the renewable heat incentive — which is proposed to cost the taxpayer £1·2 thousand million. We will turn to that issue. I have not spoken on it since I made one programme; I will speak to it again later today.”
“They say that a society can rightly be judged by how it looks after its most vulnerable members. I will not use any time allocated to me in the House to attack any fellow MLA. I think that there has been enough of that. I will attack the principle of those who would abuse social justice. Everyone in the House should, if we use the law of physics, realise that, in engineering terms, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. We will then know that there are many people in our society, often through no fault of their own, who find themselves in a position of disadvantage and where they have families that they are responsible for and who have housing needs, which is one of the most basic of all human rights.”
“Are there any plans for or developments in a new gender equality strategy?”
“Apologies; I was listed to ask topical question No 8. I thank the Commission member for the answer. What workforce planning has been undertaken by the Commission, what were their predictions for the number of private Members' Bills and what did they assess the staff capacity required to fulfil those?”
“Finally, it allows affordability so that people can buy their houses. Right goal; wrong method, I think. I encourage Members to vote against.”
“Let the detailed work be done. I know that people have said that, in England, there are research reports showing that some of the houses that are owned ultimately go into the private sector and to the private rented sector. I am not sure that there is sufficient data in Northern Ireland to stand over that. <BR /> <BR />Let me conclude by saying what we want to do as a party. I am delighted that we have a Minister who is interested in, ambitious about, and is delivering on increasing the number of new homes, bringing empty homes into use, looking for the housing to be of good quality —”
“The amendment has been well proposed. However, a comprehensive review has already taken place and concluded in the last number of weeks. If that comes out factually, the Alliance Party may want to consider withdrawing its amendment. A review has taken place. It is relevant, up to date and current; it is under analysis at this point. It would be a waste to seek another review when we have one on the table.”
“The honourable Member makes his point very well.”
“<BR /> <BR />I would like the Minister to discuss with us, if he can, what progress has been made to date with the £100 million successfully secured from government loan funding to support co-ownership and what progress is intended over the next period. <BR /> <BR />There is the view that, if we were simply to stop the scheme, there would be additional costs. The reality is a lot more complex. When somebody buys their own home, there are no longer social maintenance costs for that home. There are other ways —”
“So, while I will vote against his proposal, the goals that we want to achieve are, I believe, identical: more affordable homes, more socially affordable homes, and more social housing. <BR /> <BR />John Donne is famous for saying, "No man is an island." In housing policy, no single aspect can be considered in isolation from other aspects. The mistake today has been to look solely at the right to buy, a hugely successful policy that I endorse going back some four decades to 1979 when it was first conceived. <BR /> <BR />What do we need to do? We have to get a larger land bank; we also need to look at what we can do with the private sector. Here is the deal as far as I am concerned: by the end of this Programme for Government, let us have those 9,600 additional homes across Northern Ireland; let us have the 3,700 affordable homes by 2021.”
“It is important, when looking at housing policy and at this particular aspect of it, that, first, we look towards the goals that we seek to achieve. What we are seeking to achieve is more affordable homes. That is why I am very proud that our party and Minister have decided to take forward one of the most ambitious housing policy proposals of any Programme for Government. Let me spell it out so that there is no confusion: 9,600 additional social homes during this Programme for Government. <BR /> <BR />I will vote against the motion, but let me put one thing on the record: I respect the Member's integrity on the housing issue. Many Members around the House have enjoyed his expertise and witnessed his hard work and effort.”
“Is it not the case that, for people on the ground, this should be looked on as a win-win situation? The people who need this are not interested in party political point-scoring across the Chamber; they want to see local government and central government working together. You are absolutely right to say that the end users are interested in delivery. They are interested not so much in the route map for how we get there as in real delivery. How can we ensure, despite the nonsense of political point-scoring here today, that we bring the stakeholders along with us and that, at the end of the process, we see a genuine win-win for central and local government?”
“There are a number of very positive things in the statement, and the manufacturing industry will be hugely pleased — rightly so — with the nature of the maintenance of industrial derating. There will be interest in the use of the rates system to encourage regeneration, investment and entrepreneurship. What measures and time frame can we use to check whether this statement matches up to the outcomes? What targets can we use in an outcomes-based approach, and when can we look back to see how well we are doing at using the rates system for regeneration, investment and entrepreneurship?”
“Does the Minister agree with me that most objective academic reports — those that I have read — suggest that 90% of all the murder during what was called the Troubles was carried out by non-state actors, more accurately termed terrorists? How can her Department ensure that we have an historical investigation into 90% of the terrorist murders and not investigations into only the 10% that involved any aspect of the state, which seems to be the case?”
“I will do, Mr Speaker. <BR /> <BR />By being behind this amendment, we will deliver more and better. Do not accept second best from what purports to be an Opposition.”
“The challenge to all of us around the House is to unite behind this amendment because, through it, we will deliver the 9,600 new social homes and the 3,750 affordable homes. I encourage the House to get behind this amendment —”
“The Minister needs to keep his mind open, and, thankfully, we have a Minister with an open mind who is not just prepared to accept an audited target but is prepared to look at possibilities, see what can be done, and exceed that 8,000 target by 1,600 in this mandate by 2021. That is the measure that we will go by. We will go by delivery. We will not accept the failed policies of the SDLP that were evidenced from 2007 to 2011, when hundreds of people, compared with the next number of years, were deprived of adequate need. We will not accept the lack of vision and the poverty of ambition of an Ulster Unionist Party and an SDLP joining together to deliver less than what the Government will deliver. We want more; we want better.”
“<BR /> <BR />I welcome and encourage the Minister to continue to put money into the housing advice service. I believe, and I have found it numerous times in my constituency, that when you get the right advice early on, significant problems, including homelessness — one report states that up to 500 people could be saved from homelessness with just the right amount of advice. Yes, people will say, "Why are you paying for advice?". We are paying for advice because we believe that prevention is better than cure. <BR /> <BR />Housing is fundamental to shaping the needs of our society.”
“I encourage the Minister: if we have housing associations, which can build two houses with the different facilities that they have, compared with the Housing Executive, which can only build one house, surely we should focus the energy on the housing associations, their capacity to borrow and the ability to build two houses, rather than focus on where there could only be one. <BR /> <BR />That is only one aspect. We have to look at finance. There is no unlimited supply of money. We have to look at where land is available, and we have to look at the area of co-ownership. Against targets of hundreds, in the past we have achieved targets of thousands. We also have to look towards how we can provide people who are most in need with the best advice possible tailored to their needs and a person-centred approach to their families.”
“That audit — welcome to your Opposition — involves some 8,000 people, and the Minister comes to the House not just with the audit of need but with some 1,600 houses in excess of that audit by 2021. <BR /> <BR />I felt embarrassed for the proposer when she tried to defend the SDLP's record of 2007-2011, because, if you take those four years and the subsequent five years when our party had control, hundreds more new homes were built year after year by these Benches than by those Benches. What do they do? They come today with another record of failure and inadequacy. It is time for ambition. It is time for us to seize the day. It is time for us to look at how we can access money.”
“Having got that mandate from the people, the last thing that we are going to do, and the last thing that we are going to allow, is for the people who are most in need in this society to be sold short by a so-called Opposition whose self-appointed senior leader and self-appointed, I presume, by definition, junior leader have not even bothered to turn up. They are not prepared to do that. <BR /> <BR />Let me move on to what we need to do. We need a delivery strategy. We have a First Minister who is focused on delivery, and we have a Minister who has a comprehensive vision not to do just what the audit tells him to do — by the audit, I am referring to the net stock of the Northern Ireland Housing Executive.”
“Let me point out the inadequacies first. To bring forward the pathetic motion that they have, selling short the need of hundreds of people, speaks to me of people who want to talk the talk. This Government and this Executive are prepared to walk the walk. Look back at the record of what there was — I had the privilege of serving for five years in that Executive. We set ourselves a target of 7,500 new social housing units, and we delivered 7,669. What was achieved in terms of new units and affordability? The target was 2,450, and we achieved 4,700. I suggest to you that that is the reason that the people of Northern Ireland gave us the mandate to govern them. Not only could we set a target but we could over-deliver on that target.”
“You will hear, when I go on, that part of the proposal that I want to see is for more wheelchair accessible social housing. Coming from a family with significant disability within it and with members who are wheelchair-bound, I know that we are not doing enough in social housing. The Ulster Unionist and SDLP motion does not do enough for disabled people. It sells them short.”
“The point I was making is I am standing up, as you well know, for the people in social housing need. That was the only meaning I had in that, and I will continue to stand up for people in social housing need.”
“Forgive me, but I am actually going to stand up for people in social housing need, not sell them short. <BR /> <BR />When I look at the vision that people are in —”
“I thought we were going to get something challenging and invigorating. Instead, we have an amalgamation of the Ulster Unionists and the SDLP to sell short hundreds of people on the social housing list, yet they purport to say that they are their priority. Well, we are not prepared to sell those people short. <BR /> <BR />We understand the need: 37,347 people on a social housing list; 22,986 in housing stress; 15,474 statutory homeless. Even the figure of 8,800 they gave this morning is still inadequate and not good enough. The message coming from people in social housing need is that the Opposition need to get their act together and do better for them. <BR /> <BR />When I look at the vision of the —”
“I should declare an interest in that I spent the formative years of my life with two wonderful parents in social housing accommodation. I believe passionately in the need for social housing. If devolution is to mean anything, it is that we have to do more and better, particularly for those most in need. <BR /> <BR />It is more in sorrow than in anger that I propose this amendment, given the abject inadequacy of the SDLP and Ulster Unionist motion, which was selling people short in social housing. It was selling them short, and this amendment is coming forward because we have to do better. This party, with this amendment, is not prepared to follow the SDLP and Ulster Unionist line of continuing to sell short the people most in need of social housing. <BR /> <BR />I support opposition.”
“Given a higher radio listenership in Northern Ireland, we should have an increased investment in radio. <BR /> <BR />For me, critically, we need a proper BBC production centre in Northern Ireland, as we have already shown that we can outperform in the creative industries. Such a centre would be an asset for the BBC, an asset for us, and an asset for the licence payer.”
“<BR /> <BR />Can I say one particular thing? I do not know whether I am having a midlife crisis or it is just whatever age I am getting to, but I am listening more to radio and podcasts than I am watching television. I understand that Northern Ireland's listenership to BBC radio is much higher than it is in any other part of the UK, so there is a strong argument for radio services to be more appreciated by the BBC. There is some excellent radio — from BBC4 podcasts that I enjoy to conspiracy thrillers from Matthew Broughton down. Wonderful creative radio and news. We should recognise, particularly in Northern Ireland, where we have an ageing demographic, that many older people look to their radios as a form of company; it is their choice of what to listen to in the media.”
“Over the years we have seen so much, not just by the BBC but others, from 'Line of Duty' right through to other productions outside the BBC, such as 'Game of Thrones', where you have had some excellent productions and millions of pounds brought into the economy as a result of the creative industries. The demand that we should place here, through to the UK Government, is that we want a production centre in Northern Ireland to allow us to take a strategic approach and, as I say, give the licence fee payers some sort of return for their money. <BR /> <BR />I like the fact that the BBC will be put on a proper financial footing that should enable it to plan properly for the future. I also like the changes that will take it outside political cycles because I believe that there is a role for the BBC to be independent into the future.”
“I congratulate the former Committee for Culture, Arts and Leisure for the work that it did in its legacy report on this, because it is not acceptable to have production centres in England, Cardiff and Glasgow, but not in Northern Ireland. If we had a BBC production centre in Northern Ireland, it would give our licence fee payers a proper return for the investment that they have put into the BBC. <BR /> <BR />There is a lot that we want to see. We want to see independence and transparency. I know that Gregory Campbell MP, formerly of this parish, will be delighted if journalists — particularly one, I suspect — have to declare anything over £150,000 in earnings. It is really important for Northern Ireland that we take a strategic approach to supporting the creative industries here.”
“Then, I think that it was — I will probably not get the pronunciation correct — the Earl of Crawford and Balcarres who chaired the committee that, in 1926, looked at the United States and said, "We do not want to see unregulated broadcasting", and produced a report, which was accepted. I think that that has been a very good thing. The BBC became the British Broadcasting Corporation, deriving its authority from a Royal Charter. <BR /> <BR />We now have an opportunity to present the points that Northern Ireland wants to see within the report. I note with a lot of alarm that the BBC has developed production centres in England, Glasgow and Cardiff, but none in Northern Ireland.”
“It is an important debate. As I understand it, while it is down as a take-note debate, the UK Government will look at what comes from the Northern Ireland Assembly and from Scotland and Wales. That will then be factored into the report that the UK Government will present on the charter and the agreement to the Privy Council in time for it to come into force on 1 January 2017. The points that we can make today, albeit within five minutes, should be those that we want carried through. <BR /> <BR />Indeed, the BBC has come a long way from the British Broadcasting Company, as it was in 1922.”
“I appreciate what the Principal Deputy Speaker said, and it is part of the debate I mentioned. I accept what the Member said. We need this Bill. I have used evidence from the Royal College of Psychiatrists to say that alcohol is more harmful than illegal drugs. I make the caveat — this evidence is available from the NHS — that cannabis will damage your mental health, give you a link to schizophrenia and other psychotic illnesses, damage your fertility and your ability to drive.”
“I appreciate the Member highlighting that matter, because much of the professional medical psychological and psychiatric opinion is what the Member says. We are speaking of licensing today, and I have raised the increased dangers, according to the Royal College of Psychiatrists, of alcohol over cannabis. However, it should be remembered that cannabis is known as the gateway drug. It does lead to mental health problems, particularly among young people. So, to send out the message that this is harmless is not only wrong but has the potential to significantly damage young people's mental health.”
“However, on examination of the Bill and its real potential to reduce alcohol-related harm in Northern Ireland, to protect Easter, to allow young people to have not only all the protections they currently experience but enhanced protections, and given the 236-plus deaths in Northern Ireland, I believe that the Bill's time has come and that it should have the support of everyone in the House.”
“I look to the medical evidence that says that you will have not only a severe hangover but, likely, gastritis, stomach pains and vomiting, and that you can go into unconsciousness. We in Northern Ireland know that you can experience death. That is before we deal with liver disease and the increased risk that alcohol poses to both you and any future career that you may have. I conclude with the mental health problems and the proven links to depression, suicidal ideation and, sadly, suicide itself, as well as memory loss, brain damage, and hearing noises and voices that are not there. <BR /> <BR />I say to all Members that, when I approached the issue, I took the position, "Let's not do anything. It's bad enough as it is. Let's be careful".”
“<BR /> <BR />As I conclude, I want to look at how alcohol affects our judgement. People in Northern Ireland take risks when they have abused alcohol; they enter into arguments that they would not normally enter into; and families experience financial trouble as a result of excess and abuse. Sadly, there are family incidents, violence, harm, verbal abuse, domestic violence; there are, in cases, sexual abuse, irresponsible sexual behaviour, and an increase in accidents on roads, at home, in water or on sports playing fields. All those tell us that the Bill is absolutely necessary. <BR /> <BR />I go beyond the mere severe hangover that people talk about as being the punishment that they experience for alcohol.”
“Alcohol is our favourite drug. That is not my observation nor the observation of research; rather, it is the observation in a detailed report from the Royal College of Psychiatrists. I encourage people to read the report, 'Alcohol: Our Favourite Drug', which is available on the Internet. We need to wake up to the fact that, while we live in an alcohol-saturated society, alcohol does more harm than illegal drugs. When I talk to teachers and youth workers — I am involved in some voluntary youth work myself — I find that there does not seem to be the level of understanding that, factually, alcohol is more harmful than illegal drugs. Alcohol is more harmful than cannabis; it has done more harm in Northern Ireland than heroin. That puts what we are dealing with into perspective.”
“If we were to put a value on that, it would be worth millions of pounds to Northern Ireland, with all the volunteers in those clubs. We are recognising the value of sports clubs, enhancing protection for children and allowing them, on one occasion, to participate within their club. <BR /> <BR />Let me go back to why we need the Bill. According to the Royal College of Psychiatrists, alcohol is our favourite drug. Let us be very clear on that.”