Jonathan Bell
Strangford · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I did so because terminally ill children were being prevented from getting a hospital place in my area. While attempts were being made to prevent me from coming to the Public Accounts Committee, a terminally ill child was told, after being seen by doctors, that they could not have a hospital place and that, if they needed one, they would…”
“The permanent secretary replied "No" and said that everybody would recognise that every government worked by and on collective responsibility. <BR /> <BR />We are in a mess, and somebody has to shine a light on that mess. It fell to me, and I do not know why. I did not seek it, nor did I want it. I did not want to do it.”
“Let me conclude, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. The regulations are necessary because of the extreme mess that we have found ourselves in. The points that I made when I had to shine a light on this devastating situation were not made in December. The points were made in writing to the then First Minister in March 2016.”
“The permanent secretary replied, "Well, that is right". <BR /> <BR />There were no regulations on the table when I spoke out. There was no suggestion that we could reduce to zero or even significantly reduce the costs, and we had no legal procedure, that I was aware of, that we could have followed.”
“But I cannot speak authoritatively because, even after the Public Accounts Committee meeting, when I asked the permanent secretary last week whether I could come and see the information that, I believe, legally should be made available to me, I got no reply. Nothing.”
“The second objective that I wanted to achieve was to stop the haemorrhage of public funds. Let us not pretend that the money is still to be spent: tens of millions of pounds of taxpayers' money has already been spent — £85,000 a day, day by day, as we go along.”
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“I share some of the issues that the honourable Member raised, particularly on confidentiality when people are discussing their housing situations. I have been — I am sure this is not unusual to any MLA in the House — in public bodies and with the Housing Executive, and, without wanting to, have been able to overhear people's conversations. Those involve people who are at their wits' end. In many cases, they are revealing very private details about their life. The particular case I am referring back to was about domestic violence. A very fair point was made right at the start of the debate, which was this: whatever we do, we should look in that assessment at a more person-centred approach that would allow people dignity, particularly when they come often.”
“Yet we have seen a trajectory from housing policy that started, it would seem, with the idea of, "Look, we will assess you from the time that you were first placed on the list, and that will be the criterion we then use for all subsequent future allocations", right through to what I believe was a better attempt to distil down within those lists where there was urgency and identified need and to come up with a process that was fair to everybody involved and defensible. There needs to be a fresh look at that to see what we can contribute through modernisation to ensure that fair transferable knowledge and policy can be made. I welcome that the Department is looking towards that. <BR /> <BR />We have all faced the problem in our constituency offices of intimidation.”
“I think the whole House will endorse the import of the motion, which is that we take a fresh look at and look towards a replacement for the housing selection scheme. I welcome not only that the Minister is here today but that he and his Department have stated that they are open and are engaged in looking at what we can do to ensure that the housing selection scheme that we come forward with is fair and, as importantly, can be seen to be fair. <BR /> <BR />Assessing housing need is incredibly complex. We would all love to work on the basis that everybody who brings the information to us is honest and that the material we are dealing with can be equally weighed.”
“I draw people's attention to the fact that the EU referendum was discussed. Given that our Prime Minister has said there will be a Brexit — there will be an exit from the European Union — what is happening in terms of preparation for when that occurs? Can the Minister assure the House that he has the capacity to plan now for when that occurs so that we can take advantage and make sure our interests are both protected and advanced, particularly given that the United Kingdom will have now more money than it had previously?”
“Minister, in recognising that the mitigation measures are one of the successes of devolved government in that they have helped the most vulnerable people in our society, will you acknowledge that there are many people who live with very specific conditions and needs? Is there room in the programme for specialist support to be given to them?”
“The important thing is the principle on the nature of protected payments, which Minister Givan set out. An interesting point that can be picked up throughout is the non-discrimination on the grounds of gender. The fact that these have been examined, in part, by the previous Committee for Social Development and, as the Deputy Chair elucidated, by our Communities Committee has support from all sides of the House.”
“I welcome the fact that the Minister brought these forward in his competent presentation. They are technical and consequential amendments, so my short speech on them will probably be as interesting as most technical and consequential matters.”
“I do not want to reiterate what has been said, so I will keep my remarks brief. We focus, with this new provision, on the overall objective of the current social fund: providing financial assistance directly to claimants who find themselves in urgent need for a variety of reasons, including crisis and emergency. It has already been outlined how people can become subject to the income threshold assessment and how the available income can be repaid. Most critical is that the awards will be targeted on the basis that the individual's circumstances satisfy the eligibility conditions and criteria. The regulations have my support.”
“<BR /> <BR />We could go through and parse down in detail all of what was necessary, but the vital part of what we are here to do today is to protect the most vulnerable. Our society can be measured by how we treat the most vulnerable. The block grant was affected; decisions were taken in other Houses that had a direct impact on us. However, the success of what we have been able to do is in seeing the people most affected and targeting limited resources — I think that many of us would want to do more — at the people who need them most. We have done that with these pieces of work.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee Chair outlined, as did Minister Weir acting for Minister Givan, all the issues, but we want to look at the overall design of the new discretionary support scheme, the regulations that are there and what their purpose is, which is to provide the financial assistance for claimants who are in urgent financial need as a result of crisis or emergency. We want that discretionary support administered by the Department for Communities. Eligibility will be income-based, and the new scheme will be made available to working people on low incomes. Following the consultation, the income threshold has been set at the national living wage rate, which is payable for a person over the age of 25 who is working 40 hours a week. All claimants, whether working or non-working, will be subject to the threshold assessment.”
“A lot of work has been undertaken on the work that Professor Evason took forward. I pay tribute to her and specifically to the working group for the recommendations that we have. When we go into a period of proper scrutiny of what has occurred, it will be evident what we have done for the people of Northern Ireland who are at the coalface, very often living hand to mouth. What has occurred as a result of their devolved Assembly is that there are mitigation measures in place to carry them through what are some of the most difficult times.”
“I wonder whether he will want to comment on some very positive news. I think that we all understand that it is a very difficult job in Invest Northern Ireland, but it is one that has been done hugely successfully by Alastair Hamilton. I understand that he said that he was talking to two Boston firms that were about to invest, and they were not nonplussed at all about the fact that Britain has voted for Brexit.”
“While I do not boast about the state of our youth unemployment, I do welcome the fact that the last set of figures that I saw showed another fall in the overall unemployed. We had more people in employment. Long-term unemployment, economic inactivity — albeit by a small margin — and youth unemployment are falling. It is incumbent on us in this Budget to make sure that that trajectory continues.”
“I am not prepared to play political games with vulnerable people. I am speaking about Professor Evason's report. It is not a joke. It is not a political game. It is about helping the most vulnerable people in our society. I hope that, as we go forward with this Budget, we can continue, with some of the best knowledge base that Professor Evason and her team have given us, to look to help and support the most vulnerable people in our society. <BR /> <BR />The Minister mentioned it. We will disagree on whether or not there is hope for young people out there. The UK figure of unemployment among under-25s of 13·4% is not acceptable. It is 13·4% too much, but, as I said in the earlier debate, look at the unemployment in Greece of 48·9%, in Spain of 45·3% and in Croatia of 40·3%.”
“I am not sure that she and the team in their work have got the credit that they deserve for giving us the evidence base to bring forward policies that will mitigate the worst effects of what is a difficult time for many vulnerable people out there. We will do work in the House later on other items that are going to be brought forward in communities. If the referendum has taught us anything, it is that there is a significant disconnect among people who are struggling to get by. This House must be on their side. We must use the mitigation methods that we have at our disposal to help the most vulnerable people in society and show the people in our society —”
“No. There is no reason at all why we cannot continue an upward trajectory. <BR /> <BR />One thing that has been missed is that we did some sterling work to ensure that we had mitigation measures in place for the most vulnerable in our society, and I pay tribute to Professor Evason on the work that her team and the working group did.”
“Yet, sometime around August 2014, we overtook London and attracted more foreign direct investment per head of our population to this part of the United Kingdom than anywhere else.”
“Groups like Allstate publicly say that they came to Northern Ireland for our business costs. We all know that our business costs are about 50% or less of those in London, 85%, generally, of those in the rest of the United Kingdom and about 95% of business costs in the Republic of Ireland. We can win on cost, education and talent. I hope that in the future, as the First Minister and Finance Minister outlined, we can make sure that we have a tax rate that will attract investment into Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />You remember that we were told that we could not attract more foreign direct investment than London and that London was a high-water mark, a global city. We were told that we should not try.”
“I want to make some progress. <BR /> <BR />We have to make sure that we look forward and unite across the House to see how we can get those high skills and high-value jobs into Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I know that the Minister has been active in markets outside the European Union, not least the United States. Earlier, Mr Farry referred to the huge growth in the economies to the east and how we should try to link into them. I come to the Budget debate believing that the British economy is strong and that we are open for business. In the past, we have made a strong contribution in terms of talent. With our education system, we can continue to produce young people who, many businesses and others have told me, are, as a rule of thumb, about 10% ahead of the UK average.”
“Ten years ago, we did not have a financial technology industry of the significance that we do today, when the 'Financial Times' refers to us as the fintech capital of the world. We are the most entrepreneurial region of the UK, as defined in the past by the 'Financial Times'. This is the part of the United Kingdom where you can most quickly grow your business to £1 million. In our universities and further education colleges, we have the ability to give our young people the skills in the future areas — not least cybersecurity — that can attract high-value jobs to Northern Ireland.”
“Let us get the point: there is not going to be a border poll or a second referendum. The team has been set up by the Prime Minister to take forward the terms of the Brexit, and it is now incumbent on all of us to do what we can to ensure that we deliver the maximum with the resources that we have. <BR /> <BR />I turn to the economy. Claire Hanna is not here. I am not sure what she was talking about when she said that we were not going for high-value jobs, nor am I sure where she has been for the last number of years. Anybody who has been in the House or is moderately aware of the jobs that have come into Northern Ireland will know the significance of some of those jobs. I offer two examples. Citigroup came here with 369 jobs and now sits with over 2,000 jobs in Northern Ireland.”
“Let me repeat this in case the Member just did not get it: the referendum has been held. Secondly, the people have spoken. Thirdly, we are not going to have a second one. Can we move on to the Budget? <BR /> <BR />I voted to leave on the basis that I wanted to spend the money that we have in Northern Ireland in the best interests of the people of Northern Ireland. When we have considerable difficulties across the board, we should not have been giving the levels of money that we gave to the European Union, when it would be better spent on the most vulnerable people in Northern Ireland, who are suffering. That is not a laughing matter.”
“<BR /> <BR />Now that the decision of the United Kingdom has been made, it is incumbent on all of us to follow the instructions of the people of the United Kingdom and to do our best with the Budget before us. All of us could do more if we had more money. However, we are not tasked to have a debate about fantasies or what might be; we are tasked to deal with the allocation that we have and to show to the people of Northern Ireland effective stewardship of the Budget by delivering something better than they would have got without a devolved Government.”
“Many Members will be confused about whether parts of this debate belong to the previous debate, so we need to be clear about a number of points so that this does not carry over to debate after debate. The referendum has been held, and the decision of the United Kingdom has been made. The Prime Minister in the House of Commons today was explicit that there would not be a second referendum. My distinguished colleague Gavin Robinson asked the Prime Minister to dismiss the constitutional nonsense that devolved bodies could somehow frustrate the decision of the United Kingdom to go for Brexit, and he did so. And just to clarify for those who came out with the nonsense of a border poll, the Prime Minister has said that there will not be one.”
“I welcome the Minister to his post and welcome his interest and positive comments about the Ards group that is looking at the issue, along with many other individuals. <BR /> <BR />Will the Minister give us an idea of when that survey will be finalised and when he will be in a position to come to the House with a timeline and an action plan to address it?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does she accept that Norway and Switzerland are first and second in the Legatum Prosperity index? They rejected the EU by 79% and 82% respectively.”
“Your defence is terrified because Arlene Foster's on fire.”
“To conclude in 10 seconds, what the global economy needs into the future is flexibility, adaptability and for us to have control over our own destiny. That is why I believe the majority of the UK —”
“Is anybody telling me that, with the third largest defence capability on this planet, we are not capable of defending our own people?”
“Is anybody telling me that, with an economy to the value of, I believe, £2·31 million sterling, we cannot build a future for our young people?”
“Absolutely. We need to move forward positively. What has the BDI, the German equivalent of the CBI, told us today? Let us just take a moment, "Free trade will continue; access to the single market will continue". The only thing that we seem to be freed from is the sclerotic and opaque legislation of the corpus of European Union law from which there can be no appeal. <BR /> <BR />It is a golden opportunity for the United Kingdom, but let me thank the older people of this country. Because while others may choose to be derogatory about them, it was the older people of this country who founded and built our National Health Service; it was the pensioners of this country who won two world wars; they built our industry and made the UK the fifth largest economy in the world.”
“Thank you. I will continue for the Member if he wants: Cyprus 30·5%, Portugal 30%, Belgium 25%, France 24·6%.”
“The Member opposite first, and then I will give way.”
“Seriously? At 13·4%, by the official figures of the UK of under-25s, we want to fail our people in the way that others have been failed by the European Union? I do not think our young people will buy that argument.”
“<BR /> <BR />We should remember that, while youth unemployment is falling in Northern Ireland, we seem to want, according to the Member opposite, to be shackled with the youth unemployment of Greece, at 48·9%; Spain at 45·3%; Croatia at 40·3%; Italy at 39·1%.”
“I will in a moment. We are not going to see our economy significantly damaged, given the opportunities that are opening up. As I understand it, when we joined the European Union, it had 36% of the world's economy; today, it has 17%. The United Kingdom — our United Kingdom — which has voted to take back control, set its own taxes and free itself to make laws that serve the people of the UK, is one of only two of the current 28 members of the European Union that do more trade with the rest of the world than with the EU. So, now is the time. <BR /> <BR />To pensioners, I say that, in an ageist way, older people have been discriminated against and derogatory things have been said about you. I am sure that I am not alone in having heard derogatory remarks such as, "These people who are voting do not have long to live" — disgraceful comments.”
“I do not think that I have heard any air-raid sirens: there is not going to be world war III.”
“What has become very clear is that the United Kingdom has spoken conclusively. I accept that there were different views and different arguments and that some of the arguments on either side may not have been presented as well as they could. However, the United Kingdom has spoken. This was not an individual country referendum; it was a United Kingdom referendum, and it has spoken, so it is now incumbent upon every politician to follow the people's instructions. The result is clear, so now is the time for all of us to unite and seize what I believe will be a golden opportunity for all of the people of the United Kingdom. <BR /> <BR />We do not need to worry about some of the fears that were out there. The Chancellor was out this morning: there is not going to be an emergency punishment Budget.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Is the "Remain" side rowing back on the third world war?”
“I congratulate the Minister. This is my first opportunity to do so in the House, and I welcome her having taken the very courageous decision on a very difficult post. I wish you well in that. <BR /> <BR />The Minister will be aware that the Kingsmills massacre is a festering sore that, until justice is done, will never allow proper reconciliation and healing in our society. Can the Minister assure the House that no stone will be left unturned in seeking that justice, because there is scepticism about the Provisional IRA's involvement in what was a sectarian massacre akin to what we have seen in Kosovo and other horrendous areas? Can she also confirm that, if the Provisional IRA is found to be responsible by due process of law, it will be held to account for what was a heinous sectarian atrocity?”
“The three critical areas that we need to address are affordability, repairs and standards. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, we want to see a proportional response from the Minister. It is the first opportunity that I have had to welcome him to his post. We want to see a balanced approach that looks towards effective regulation and protects the tenant and the necessary sector, the private rented sector.”
“One would have thought that, when that happens, the private landlord immediately acts to get the necessary repairs in place. Often, and I am sure I am not alone, I find in my constituency surgeries that, even when the council's environmental health office has acted and explained what needs to be done, there then begins a process, with them saying, "We do not need to do it that way; let me get a different plumber or joiner, or get in someone different", because the landlord reckons they can solve this problem, for example, just by putting in a dehumidifier. This is an actual experience, without breaching anybody's confidence, where a single parent with several children is unable to use her own bedroom in her own home. We go into a process of almost interminable delay while these negotiations go backwards and forwards.”
“That group made up one third of the respondents. It is important that we look to good practice elsewhere in the United Kingdom. We have the Private Rented Housing (Scotland) Act 2011, the Housing (Wales) Act 2014 and the Renters' Rights Bill in England. <BR /> <BR />In my constituency office, tenants often speak to me about the affordability of the sector and the difficulty in getting repairs done. I have major concerns about landlords who are acting irresponsibly. Without breaking any confidences, I know of single parents in my constituency whom we have referred on to the environmental health office at Ards and North Down Borough Council. If the environmental health office accepts that the accommodation does not meet the necessary standards, it puts recommendations in place.”
“For 11% — this is the challenge for us — the waiting list for social housing is simply too long. We have heard good news in recent weeks from some of our social housing associations, which have thought outside the box, and we encourage them to see how investment can be brought in. The big sector in the survey — a third of our people — is those who simply cannot afford accommodation.”
“This is an important motion, and I am happy to speak in support of both it and the amendment, which reflects what we want here, which is proportionality and a reasonable way forward. There is always a necessary balance to be struck between the landlord and the tenant — I should declare an interest as a landlord, Mr Speaker — and, as we look towards regulations, we want to protect both the tenant and the landlord, who in many cases provides a vital service. I refer to what Mr Dickson said earlier about the consultation by Housing Rights and consultations in Dungannon, Coleraine and Belfast. <BR /> <BR />It is important to look at the reasons that people rent. For 10%, it is flexibility. They are not going to put down permanent roots, be that for family or employment reasons.”
“— in families' homes. We also need to build on education not just for the top who are achieving but for those who are underachieving.”
“We have to find suitable employment for people. That is about helping them to find employment and to make sure that they, particularly our young people, have the right careers guidance for where they want to progress in the future. <BR /> <BR />There are challenges in our world-class natural heritage, in benefits and pensions, in supporting children and in local government. All in all, those are challenges that we must rise to because we have to create more jobs and increase family incomes in Northern Ireland. We have to look towards a world-class health service and to seeing what we have continue to develop. We need a proper infrastructure in Northern Ireland to support that. Finally, we need to do two things. First, we need to protect family budgets. We need to keep as much money as we can —”
“<BR /> <BR />Urban regeneration will be a major challenge, but we also look on the back of the sporting achievements, not only the challenges that there were last night, albeit in the context of a tragic death, but we can see out there that Northern Ireland sport is again playing at the top level, and we look towards major events that are coming in. The Irish Open will be here again in 2017, as will The Open, the world's largest golf tournament, in 2019. How can we use our sport to help in such areas as autism awareness, sports injury and concussion, and the Special Olympics? Those are all challenges in our Budget.”
“They have said, "Yes, this is unacceptable", but a private landlord is challenging that and saying, "Oh, we can get a plumber to do something different from what is being asked for". Meanwhile, the single mother lives in a house that is unacceptable but does not appear in the homelessness figures because she is apparently in suitable accommodation even though the council has been out and deemed it unsuitable. We have levels of hidden homelessness that we must address, and we have to look towards the reform of social housing and how we can actively help people in the private rented sector.”
“We have to look not only towards the successes but at the fact that a huge number — too many people — are waiting in the social housing sector. I raised the point and laboured it at the Committee, and I will raise it again. I am particularly concerned about the numbers of people in our social housing sector who do not register in the homeless figures. They are living in substandard accommodation that none of us in the House would accept. I can bring you to a house in Newtownards, where there is a single mother with a number of children, and she cannot sleep in her own bedroom. Ards and North Down Borough Council has been out, and environmental health has been out.”