Phil Flanagan
Fermanagh and South Tyrone · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his answer. There is an old guise that you should never ask a question that you do not know the answer to. The question that I submitted asked the Minister how many social houses had been started in the 2015-16 financial year, but somehow it was changed.”
“I thank the Minister for his attempt to answer the question. I put him on notice that it was not he who initiated the process, but I am looking for him to intervene and stop it as a locally elected representative. <BR /> <BR />There are roughly 1,000 people on the housing waiting list in Fermanagh, and nearly 300 of those are in stress.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a fhreagra. I thank the Minister for his answer. The licence has not been extended, but does the Minister accept that the decision to extend InfraStrata's time frame for a work programme sets a dangerous precedent on fracking, particularly given that InfraStrat…”
“How does the Minister square that with the ministerial involvement of his predecessor, Nelson McCausland, interfering in where social houses are built for political, parading or electoral reasons.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way, and I have no difficulty in supporting this request for information sharing, but I have two short questions. First, he said that this is a tax on employment. Does he have any sort of a headline figure as to what the scale of the financial implications of this will be for local employers?”
“<BR /> <BR />Requirements are now being placed on the Department with regard to careers. That is a very positive development that the Minister brought forward after the Committee initiated a review of careers advice, which was then followed up by a piece of work that the Minister commissioned from an expert group on careers.”
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“Businesses certainly do not like all the decisions that we make in here, but they want to know what decisions we are going to make so that they can plan for the future. That is something that we are all agreed on: we need to provide businesses with clarity as to where we are going in the future with decisions. <BR /> <BR />Some ongoing uncertainty on key issues is providing serious uncertainty to businesses with regard to future investment decisions. One of those issues is ongoing uncertainty relating to EU membership, which largely went unmentioned in the debate until the Member for North Antrim who is no longer in his seat brought it up. That has the potential to bring considerable harm to the economy. <BR /> <BR />During the inquiry, the Committee recognised that the North benefits considerably from EU membership.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee has decided that we need to be much more visionary in the future and to make sure that we provide opportunities for business and employment across the North. That has to be balanced across all of our areas, because there is a feeling out there that not all areas are benefiting equally from the recovery that the Minister highlighted. <BR /> <BR />Gordon Dunne highlighted the need for political stability to increase confidence in order to support economic growth. That call was echoed by his party colleagues Paul Frew and William Humphrey. In fact, that is one of the key issues that was addressed by groups that presented to the Committee during the inquiry's evidence-gathering sessions. There was a recognition that political instability harms business confidence and is detrimental to investment.”
“The key factors that were focused on were skills, education and issues around energy and telecoms, as well as those related to transport infrastructure and communities. Those are all essential, but if they are considered in isolation, without consideration for their interrelationships, there is a danger that those efforts will be wasted. <BR /> <BR />The inquiry makes it clear that there seems to be a lack of recognition that a problem even exists. We hear mention being made by some Ministers about Government Departments operating in isolation, and that was one of the clear points that we got back from every single business, organisation and membership organisation that engaged with the Committee. They want to see a much more integrated approach from the Executive, and they want the Executive to be much more strategic.”
“<BR /> <BR />We need to get beyond simply handing out grants to businesses to get them to come here or to expand their existing offering. We need to focus on other factors that are just as important in attracting, retaining and growing businesses and in contributing to the vibrant and sustainable economy that we all want to see. That is the main purpose of the inquiry. <BR /> <BR />What other factors need to be looked at in how we create, grow and sustain employment here? Many of those factors have been touched on this afternoon by Members from all parties. Leaving out some of the party political contributions, every Member that spoke had a valuable contribution to make on the positive aspects of the inquiry and on what needs to be done to help maximise the potential for economic growth and job creation.”
“Selective financial assistance certainly has its place, and we need to be attracting businesses, through Invest NI's efforts, through foreign direct investment. However, it seems that the FDI boom is over, and maybe the Minister's predecessor got out at just the right time because, under the new rules, things have changed. Under the current selective financial assistance rules, 83% of the jobs that were promoted with Invest NI support in 2013-14 would not be eligible . Of the record number of jobs promoted between April and June of last year, 99% would not be eligible under the current rules. Things have had to change within Invest NI on how it attracts jobs. Unfortunately, we are not going to see the record levels of job promotion and job creation again for some time.”
“I suppose that some members would agree that the last few meetings, as we tried to formulate the words and get this tied down, were cumbersome and challenging. I pay tribute to the Chair for his diplomatic ability and trying to keep us all together. <BR /> <BR />In terms of the inquiry, the main aspect was growing the economy and creating jobs. It was very wide ranging. The focus was on how we can grow and develop a vibrant sustainable economy across this region in the long term. One of the most important outcomes of the inquiry has been that, in order to create a vibrant economy, we have to look beyond the activities involved in providing direct incentives to attract business. It has to be about much more than that.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I welcome the opportunity to support the Committee motion today. In particular, I thank all those who provided written and oral evidence to the Committee; it really helped us in formulating this plan, which is a great improvement on anything that is out there at the minute. I thank the officials in the Department for their support and continued information throughout the course of the inquiry, and I thank all the Members who participated in the debate today. A particular word of thanks must go to the staff of the Committee, particularly to our Clerk and the bursary student, Peadar, who have done tremendous work in supporting us to get this far in the inquiry. It was a work in progress.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He is raising a number of issues that the Committee did not focus on during the inquiry. Perhaps if he and his party had responded to the call for submissions earlier in the year, we would have considered some of those issues.”
“I would like to hear from the Minister his plans, maybe through this legislative process, to encourage NI Water not merely to have the option to claw money back for up to six years but to issue accurate bills to commercial and non-domestic customers in the first instance. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Minister for bringing forward the Bill. I look forward with interest to looking at it once it comes out of Committee to see how we can improve it at that stage.”
“I am sure that, when he is responding, he will be fit to tell us whether he thinks that it is the best possible solution and whether he will bring the regulations forward. <BR /> <BR />The final point that I make to the Minister is on the incentive for NI Water to produce accurate bills. He will be aware that that issue has been raised by the Consumer Council, Manufacturing NI and other organisations. The most high-profile example was when Altnagelvin Hospital was able to claim back a quarter of a million pounds with support from the Consumer Council. Figures that the Minister provided to me at one stage indicated that NI Water had got its bills wrong by £4·5 million and that £136,000 had been written off. Therefore, when an organisation has only a 3% rate of bad debt, it is not much of an incentive for it to improve.”
“It gives the Minister power to bring forward regulations to amend the 2006 Order so that water meters no longer have to be a requirement of a connection notice. I merely ask the Minister whether he intends to bring forward those regulations once the Bill comes into effect. There was perhaps another way in which this could have been dealt with through the legislative process, and I am interested in finding out from the Minister whether he intends to bring forward the regulations before the end of this mandate, if we get that chance. We will all be keen to see the installation of water meters stopped where they are not required, because that is a huge financial barrier to NI Water. I commend the Minister for bringing forward a solution to the problem.”
“I completely agree with the Member. There are not too many waste water treatment plants in Fermanagh that are at under 80%. Some of them are at around 120%. The investment has not really been coming in as quickly as we want, and that holds back the ability of people to build houses. It affects private developers, but it is also a serious barrier for housing associations that want to build houses yet cannot go into an area where there is need. I would like to see greater transparency in how NI Water decides where it wants to put in investment and in how the Utility Regulator decides whether that investment is warranted and whether it is a priority. <BR /> <BR />Clause 3 is very welcome.”
“I am coming to a finish. The point that I want to make is that, after the developer went into liquidation, the residents had to pay Power NI the costs of operating it and keeping the management going, and that left them with a debt of £15,000 for something that they had not expected. They are now left facing that. <BR /> <BR />There is another issue that I would like to see resolved though the Bill. I want some credence to be given to the need for waste water treatment works in various areas to be upgraded to allow developments to take place where they need to take place. We need to see movement on that. On how those decisions are made —”
“<BR /> <BR />Another case involves a small unfinished housing development in Garrison. As the waste water treatment plant in Garrison is full to capacity and Lough Melvin is so heavily protected, it should be a priority for an upgrade. However, because the population of Garrison is small, the work has not been prioritised in the current round of funding. When the development was brought forward in Garrison, the developer was forced to construct a stand-alone waste water treatment works inside the plant, which increased the cost of buying and building the homes.”
“Perhaps the Minister and the Committee could look into that and see whether a central list could be kept, showing whether bonds are kept under the 2006 Order, whether the money taken at the time still exists and whether it is held by the conveyancing solicitor or by NI Water. <BR /> <BR />Mr McManus, who came out with me, gave me a couple of examples of residents who came together and managed to get all the money that had been paid in bonds and use it to, largely, offset the development works. I am hopeful that the same position might be reached in Galliagh Shore, but it is a problem that there are barriers in the way of resolving issues that could be fairly straightforward, if the mechanisms were in place to help residents who wanted to explore this avenue to find it.”
“They just do not have the money to invest. <BR /> <BR />I am trying to work with the residents, who have a range of conveyancing solicitors, each of whom was required to hold back money under the Water and Sewerage Services Order 2006 in case the work was not completed. Thankfully, some of the solicitors have the money, but I find it a bit burdensome that residents, through a local MLA, have to chase up this money with their solicitor. There does not seem to be a central database kept by NI Water that indicates whether the bond money exists. Perhaps that system does exist, and it just has not been communicated to me.”
“I am hopeful that minor changes can be made to prevent such problems recurring. Residents in Galliagh Shore, Enniskillen, face the situation of drains outside their front door being constantly blocked by waste, including sewage. The development is unadopted, and, as the developer went bankrupt or into liquidation, he is not under a statutory obligation to involve himself. It is very much a case for the residents and NI Water. Officials from NI Water have been very helpful, coming to the site to engage with residents and explain how they can get the site adopted. The residents, however, have to pay to bring it up to standard. That is a huge burden for people who have already purchased a property, many of whom are now in serious negative equity because the house is worth less now than when they bought it.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Cuirim fáilte roimh an Bhille seo. I welcome the Bill and commend the Minister for what he has brought to the House. <BR /> <BR />I have a particular interest in clause 6 and will address most of my comments to that clause. I commend the Committee for its previous report on unadopted developments, and I am grateful that the Minister has taken forward some of the recommendations. Through previous correspondence with the Minister, I am aware that he is sympathetic to some of the issues facing households and developers and is keen to find a resolution. It is in that spirit that, I believe, the Bill has been introduced. <BR /> <BR />I want to highlight where there have been problems in the past and where the Bill can help to address them.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for moving this. The Committee explored this on a number of occasions and took evidence from the Department and interested stakeholders if memory serves me right. After the proposed changes were recommended by the Department, the Committee was happy to support the proposals.”
“Yes. Does the Minister accept that the financial situation that we face is not solely the result of disagreement over cuts to the welfare system but is much bigger than that and due to the cuts that have been imposed on the Executive by the British Government, and that that is where the emphasis needs to be?”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I suppose that the problem with the question is that you might get an answer. If the Minister really thinks that the solution to the Executive's financial crisis is merely to implement welfare cuts, he is more naive than I thought. Our financial crisis is much bigger than that.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a fhreagra. I thank the Minister for his answer and hope that, in the round, this will be seen as a positive move for students. He says that there is no money to increase the maintenance payments that students get, even though tuition fees are going up in line with inflation. Does it not seem a bit unfair that his Department continues to increase tuition fees, often above the rate of inflation, but there is no reciprocal increase in the maintenance support grants given to students to cover those costs?”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a freagra. I thank the junior Minister for her answer. Leaving aside the concerns about the potential wording of the Bill, does she accept that there is a need for a statutory duty to cooperate across Departments in the delivery of children's services?”
“There is an awful lot more to be done to support our hospitality and tourism sector, and I look forward to hearing the Minister's response.”
“Even in some other member states, they do not use a tourism tax or the VAT on tourism and hospitality to close the deficit or merely to raise revenue for the Government. It is directed into enhancing the tourism product and the things that are offered to potential visitors.”
“Reports have been done on that in the past, and it is clear to see that it will pay for itself through increased spend from consumers, as well as through increased disposable income for people who are in work and who will have increased work because of the reduction in VAT and the knock-on increased tax take that will arise. Therefore, we need to see a move to support our tourism and hospitality sector. That is what we are all calling for here. <BR /> <BR />There is a range of options being proposed and looked at, but you can clearly see that the Government in England have been increasing the rate of VAT to close the deficit. Some other European member states have put their tourism sector at the centre of their economic policy. We need to make sure that, particularly here, we adopt a similar position.”
“The fact that, time and time again, we debate the issue and unanimously agree that the rate of VAT on tourism and hospitality products is too high and a barrier to the growth of our local economy demonstrates the importance of the tourism and hospitality sector to us as MLAs and to our economy. <BR /> <BR />The motion merely calls for a report to be carried out by the two relevant Departments. That is fairly straightforward, and you could not have much argument with it. There is an argument to be put forward that it makes economic sense for a reduction in the VAT rate to take place.”
“I agree that part of the reason is the exchange rate, but another part of it may well be that the licensing laws here are fairly restrictive at times. Therefore, there is a range of issues that we need to sort out to support our tourism sector, and it is important that we listen to the views that are put forward by representative bodies such as Pubs of Ulster and the Hotels Federation, which do very good work in representing their members. They have a very good opportunity here to engage with local representatives. They get a fair hearing from Ministers and MLAs. <BR /> <BR />The level of detail and the number of times that the issue has been debated shows the strength of the campaign.”
“It is a growing trend for people, because of the reduced cost as a result of the difference in VAT rates, to cross the border to hold their wedding. That is having a deeply negative impact on our local economy. People are opting not to hold events in their local area and are instead having them in other counties in Ireland, often because of the cost differential.”
“Our challenge, as a legislative body and as representatives of the people, is to ensure that those increases are converted into job opportunities and do not remain headline figures. <BR /> <BR />In the North, particularly along the border in places such as Fermanagh, we are losing out on considerable investment and spend as a result of the differential rates of VAT, as well as through the difference in currency strength. The result is that, when a group is looking to hold a dinner dance or a function, when a couple are looking to get married or when parents are looking to have a christening, crossing the border into Cavan, Donegal or Monaghan is a very real prospect. Just last Friday, I was in the Cavan Crystal Hotel at the wedding of a young woman from Tempo and a young man from County Down.”
“I hope that the Minister's successor in DETI will continue in that vein, and I am sure that he will. <BR /> <BR />Since 2010, our wider economy has been under attack as a result of the policies put forward by the Tory Government in England, with devastating cuts to our public services and an increase to 20% in the rate of VAT. That is a regressive form of taxation, and one that also applies to the tourism sector. That was a regrettable policy: it should not have been explored, and it has had a deeply negative impact on society, particularly on our tourism sector here, which is in competition with other parts of the island. <BR /> <BR />It is clear to see that, in this part of Ireland, our tourism sector is going well. It is certainly growing. Overnight trips to the North increased by 2% last year, and spend increased by 3%.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank Basil for his cut-and-paste speech. I welcome the Minister into her new role. This is the first opportunity I have had to engage with her since she took over the post, and I genuinely wish her well. We will miss her from the Committee for Enterprise, Trade and Investment. <BR /> <BR />Since peacetime arrived here, we have had a huge transformation in our tourism sector, particularly since the establishment of this institution and Tourism Ireland, which carries out an outstanding role in promoting this island overseas. We have seen a seismic shift in the interest levels in visiting this place for tourism and business reasons, and we need to maximise and exploit that and keep the trend going.”
“Does the Member agree that we are also very good at calling for other people to do things?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. I commend the PHA and the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) on their efforts to deal with this matter, in conjunction with the trade union. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Minister for that information, but can he give us an assurance that, even though he expects this to be completed by 9.00 pm, representatives from the PHA and the HSE will continue to work with representatives and the organisation to make sure than any future risks are dealt with in a time-appropriate manner?”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee looks forward to considering the issues in detail, following consultation to ensure the best outcome for developers and, more importantly, consumers. At this stage, it is not the most exciting topic in the world; I think that people will be sick of hearing about CFDs, FITs and NIROs by the time we are finished. However, as the Minister said — I like to agree with her whenever I can — this is only an enabling power; the issue of substance has still to be discussed and decided. The Committee looks forward to playing its role in that in the future.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Minister has highlighted, in correspondence to the Committee, a number of concerns in relation to the transition to CFDs and has underscored the need to ensure that the CFD process takes account of the different market arrangements in the North. The fact that generators and suppliers here operate in an all-island single electricity market means that some changes will be necessary. There will be no guaranteed renewables deployment, which may make it difficult to have a separate target. EMR will result in consumers here and in Britain paying the same to support CFDs. The North's lower supplier obligation level under the NIRO, which cannot be replicated under a CFD mechanism, means that consumers here will experience an increase in the percentage of their bill used to fund renewables.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Committee looks forward to the outcome of DECC's call for evidence on how CFDs might be implemented here and the Department's strategic issues paper regarding our strategic position on renewable energy. The Committee welcomes the Minister's recognition of developers' concerns that our late entry into the CFD process will limit opportunities within a decreasing budget imposed by the levy control framework. The Committee notes that the Department has been working closely with DECC on how generators and suppliers locally can participate in the existing Westminster small-scale feed-in tariff (FIT) following the closure of the NIRO.”
“The NIRO is the main policy measure for supporting the development of renewable electricity here, and it has proved very popular and successful since it was first introduced in 2005, with consumption of electricity from renewable sources having increased from 3% to almost 20% since then. <BR /> <BR />It is the view of the Westminster Department of Energy and Climate Change (DECC) that the contracts for difference, which are the main renewables support mechanism under electricity market reform, offer a means of meeting its statutory energy targets at least cost to the consumer. However, CFDs will mean a fundamental change from the NIRO, as generators will no longer have a guaranteed subsidy and will have to compete for contracts within a yearly budget allocation.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for bringing forward this rule. As Mr Dunne said, the Committee considered the Energy (Amendment) Order at SL1 stage on 24 March and, subsequently, the draft statutory rule on 14 April. The Committee is content that the statutory rule amend the Energy Order 2003 to confer a power on the Department to make a renewables obligation closure order. Therefore, it agreed that the rule be affirmed by the Assembly. <BR /> <BR />The electricity market reform will see all three Westminster renewables orders closed to new generation from 1 April 2017.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as a freagraí. I could not agree more with the Minister about the standard of our pork products, particularly things like Pat O'Doherty's black bacon in Enniskillen. Given the threat of a European exit and the commitment by some parties here to push for a referendum on leaving Europe, will the Minister outline how important she feels EU membership is for this part of Ireland for trade and other opportunities for the agrifood sector?”
“The lobby from the large multinational corporations that run mobile phone companies has been successful and has delayed the abolition of roaming charges, which is completely unacceptable.”
“I thank the Member for the extra time, but it was not somebody in Europe who wrote the report: it was 11 members of a Committee here. The most pressing priority in our future engagement with Europe is whether we are actually in it or not. <BR /> <BR />There are other issues that I want to focus on that are not included in the report at any great length because of the fluidity of things. The most annoying one for me is that we thought we had a commitment that roaming charges would be abolished. The Council of Europe has backed down.”
“<BR /> <BR />The views of right-wing, xenophobic political parties in England should not be allowed to drive the agenda in the Westminster election, particularly on our future place in Europe. The voices of people here need to be heard. For me, there is a very clear choice for voters between the politicians who want to remain in Europe and those who are hitching their wagon to parties that want to drag us out of it. That is the choice that people have to make. <BR /> <BR />I find it completely unacceptable that the British Prime Minister and the leaders of both main unionist parties advocate a referendum on future EU membership but actively oppose a referendum on whether Ireland should be united. For me, that is a much more pressing referendum and one that needs to happen more urgently.”
“Between 2007 and 2013 the North drew down £2·4 billion in EU funding. That funding stream would be put at risk if we were to be pulled out of Europe. <BR /> <BR />Our economic output could be reduced by 3% or £1 billion a year, if we were to be taken out of Europe. Work carried out for the Committee for Enterprise, Trade and Investment by Dr Leslie Budd put that figure on it. He went further and said that cross-border transaction costs could "rise significantly" and that those would "act as a disincentive" to economic cooperation on the island of Ireland. What we need to see on this island is closer economic cooperation, not the introduction of formalised border crossings and the erection of more barriers to trade.”
“Europe has a positive impact on our local economy in many ways. Both jobs Ministers on the island promote it as a gateway to Europe, particularly for American investors and those looking to come into Europe for the first time. Are we to believe that even the threat of a referendum on exiting Europe would not have a chilling effect on those potential investors? <BR /> <BR />The agriculture sector is heavily reliant on EU funding to help it exist, and groups involved in building peace across the North and along the border are heavily reliant on EU Peace funding. I certainly do not believe that any future British Government would simply replace those funds with money from the British Treasury in the event of a withdrawal from Europe. It is important that we quantify the extent of those funds.”
“We have a different relationship with Europe from that of people in parts of England, but, unfortunately, their agenda is driving the discussion. We share an economy with the rest of Ireland, and this island has done very well through membership of the European Union. In the event of a referendum on EU membership, we want to see a provision included that, if the people in this part of Ireland vote against leaving Europe, that mandate should be respected and the people here should not be dragged out of Europe against our wishes. I know from being out and about meeting people from all backgrounds, business owners and employees that people do not want to see this place taken out of Europe. Most people see the positive impact that being part of the European Union has had on our economy, and they want to see that sustained in the future.”
“We have a situation in which the lead party in the British Government has committed to holding a referendum on the issue. It proposes a referendum on EU membership without any consideration of the potential impacts on this part of Ireland. In my view — it is one that is widely held across society here — exiting the European Union would have a considerably negative impact on our society and particularly on our economy.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Committee for bringing forward an important report at an important time, and I welcome the opportunity to speak in the debate. <BR /> <BR />I find it a bit strange that, throughout the 188 pages of the Committee's report, there is very little, if any, focus on the potential withdrawal of this place from the European Union, because that should be our number one priority when it comes to how we engage with Europe going forward.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is there any chance of getting this clock started, because I do not want to listen to him all day?”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a freagra. I thank the Minister for her answers. <BR /> <BR />The Minister might accept that the high price of energy and electricity for large energy users and manufacturing companies is a barrier to attracting and retaining jobs in the manufacturing sector. What action has she taken to support large energy users that face uncompetitively high energy costs compared with their counterparts around Europe?”