Phil Flanagan
Fermanagh and South Tyrone · Sinn Féin · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his answer. There is an old guise that you should never ask a question that you do not know the answer to. The question that I submitted asked the Minister how many social houses had been started in the 2015-16 financial year, but somehow it was changed.”
“I thank the Minister for his attempt to answer the question. I put him on notice that it was not he who initiated the process, but I am looking for him to intervene and stop it as a locally elected representative. <BR /> <BR />There are roughly 1,000 people on the housing waiting list in Fermanagh, and nearly 300 of those are in stress.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a fhreagra. I thank the Minister for his answer. The licence has not been extended, but does the Minister accept that the decision to extend InfraStrata's time frame for a work programme sets a dangerous precedent on fracking, particularly given that InfraStrat…”
“How does the Minister square that with the ministerial involvement of his predecessor, Nelson McCausland, interfering in where social houses are built for political, parading or electoral reasons.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way, and I have no difficulty in supporting this request for information sharing, but I have two short questions. First, he said that this is a tax on employment. Does he have any sort of a headline figure as to what the scale of the financial implications of this will be for local employers?”
“<BR /> <BR />Requirements are now being placed on the Department with regard to careers. That is a very positive development that the Minister brought forward after the Committee initiated a review of careers advice, which was then followed up by a piece of work that the Minister commissioned from an expert group on careers.”
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“You are certainly well away from the answer now.”
“Does the Minister accept that the decision not to carry out gully-cleaning leads to road safety issues, where there is now water lying on the side of our roads, and people travelling on our roads at speed will end up in a hedge on the other side of the road by accident as a result of hitting lying water?”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his answer. He said that he had to take difficult decisions, but I challenge him and say that he took the easy decision. That was the easy cut to make. It would have been much more progressive for the Minister to say, "We are going to stop giving the redcoats a handout to give people a fine for parking in our town centres" —”
“I want to clear up the allegation that the Minister just made. Neither today nor previously have I said that I was opposed to the gas network being extended. Perhaps the Minister, in her infinite wisdom, will come to the House prepared with facts instead of making silly allegations.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Maybe he was not listening, but I said that there was actually potential for that in Fermanagh as well, so it is not as though I am opposed to boreholes in my own area. The Member will be well aware that this is not going to happen in his constituency because of the protection that is afforded to the gas industry and because a gas network is enabled in the parts of the constituency where this is a viable runner. That is blocking it.”
“However, it is important to point out that it does not reflect a road-to-Damascus conversion by the Minister as she has yet to say that she is opposed to or against fracking. The rationale behind the decision was solely based on timing; the fact that Tamboran cannot get the work done in time to meet the clearly legislated deadlines in its licences played a huge part. Perhaps the fact that there is a big election coming next year may have played an equally big part.”
“I do not care. <BR /> <BR />The main difference is that gas is not sustainable, no matter how many times we get a policy document from the Department telling us that it is. Gas is not a sustainable form of energy. <BR /> <BR />As the Member raised the issue of fracking, it would be wrong not to reflect on the announcement last week by the Enterprise Minister of her decision not to give Tamboran another extension to its petroleum licence, or its licence for fracking, as it was more commonly known. In terms of supporting the renewable industry and moving us towards our challenging targets for renewable heat and electricity in the future, it was the right decision, and it is a welcome one.”
“The main difference, Mr McCrea, who spoke from a sedentary position, is that gas is —”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I thought that he was going to keep going until all my time was up. There is a huge difference between geothermal energy and hydraulic fracturing. If the Member thinks that the two things are the same, he really needs to read more.”
“It also wants deep geothermal installations assessed on a case-by-case basis, where proposed projects coincide with an area that is an existing or future gas connection. <BR /> <BR />If we are serious, as many claim, that we want to move to a low-carbon future, we need to make the most of the opportunities presented by clean, sustainable and renewable sources of energy. The potential for —”
“As long as legislation exists that supports the protection of the gas industry, uncertainty will remain for the ability of geothermal projects to progress through feasibility to development. That statute obligation is a major barrier to the deployment of deep geothermal energy and other forms of renewable electricity and heat generation. <BR /> <BR />As part of the solution that it has put forward, GT Energy has urged the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment to install a separate tariff for deep geothermal and to separate it from ground-source heat pumps, which it sees as insufficient to incentivise development. It wants to see a tariff at a suitable level to stimulate the development of the deep geothermal sector.”
“Additionally, in Germany, since the introduction of a development framework in 2001, over 21 thermal MW have been installed annually. <BR /> <BR />A report for the Renewable Energy Association found that a fifth of these islands' electricity needs could be met through deep geothermal energy. However, arguments have been made that that will not happen unless DETI provides the necessary structure and incentive to kick-start that exciting sector. A number of the towns identified as having a high geothermal potential already have a developed gas network or are listed as towns where future expansion of the gas network is planned. Those towns include Coleraine, Ballymoney, Ballymena, Antrim, Magherafelt, Cookstown and Dungannon.”
“However, 81 thermal MW could equate to approximately 31·5% of the current outstanding renewable heat target of 1,300 thermal GW by 2020. GT Energy believes that this is achievable and is supported by international experience in places such as Paris, where, in the 1970s, over 240 thermal MW were installed over 13 years — an addition of 18 thermal MW a year.”
“We lag behind some of our EU counterparts, who have adopted and supported deep geothermal heat development due to the significant benefits of deep geothermal energy. The geothermal potential of the northern part of this island has been extensively described in numerous studies completed between the 1970s and 1980s and in 2005 and 2008. Based on these studies, the total stored energy is roughly 490 GW of thermal capacity. However, not all of the energy stored can be economically exploited. <BR /> <BR />GT Energy, one of the leading organisations in this field, estimates that under the policy framework discussed in a document it sent to the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment, 81 thermal MW of geothermal energy could be developed by 2020. That represents significantly less than 1% of the stored energy here.”
“Forecasts for the future of geothermal power depend on assumptions about technology, energy prices, subsidies and interest rates. Deep geothermal energy development is a highly developed industry that contributes to the renewable energy mix in a large number of countries worldwide. The use of geothermal energy is most developed in volcanic regions and countries, such as America, the Philippines, Indonesia, Mexico, Italy, New Zealand and Iceland. They all produce significant quantities of electricity from geothermal power. <BR /> <BR />However, there has been renewed interest in the use of deep geothermal energy in non-volcanic regions, with Germany, Austria, France, Denmark and the Netherlands all showing significant development of their resources, mainly for combined heat and power and direct heating and cooling purposes.”
“Recent technological advances have dramatically expanded the range and size of viable resources, especially for applications such as home heating, which opens the potential for widespread exploitation. Geothermal wells release greenhouse gases that are trapped deep within the earth, but these emissions are much lower per energy unit than those of fossil fuels. <BR /> <BR />As a result, if widely deployed in place of fossil fuels, geothermal power has the potential to help mitigate global warming. The earth's geothermal resources are, theoretically, more than adequate to supply humanity's ever-growing energy needs. However, only a very small fraction may be profitably exploited. Drilling and exploration for deep resources is, indeed, very expensive.”
“It successfully lit four light bulbs. <BR /> <BR />William Thomson — better known as Lord Kelvin — who was actually born in Belfast, invented the heat pump in 1852. In 1912, Heinrich Zoelly patented the idea of using it to draw heat from the ground, but it was not until the late 1940s that the geothermal heat pump was successfully implemented. In 2012, around the world, over 11,000 megawatts (MW) of geothermal power was online across 24 countries. An additional 28 GW of direct geothermal heating capacity was installed for district heating, space heating and agricultural and industrial processes across the world by 2010. <BR /> <BR />Geothermal energy is cost-effective, reliable, sustainable and environmentally friendly, but has historically been linked to areas near tectonic plate boundaries.”
“The core is about 4,000 miles beneath the surface and can reach temperatures of over 4,000ºC. Part of that heat is left over from the earth's formation about four billion years ago. The rest comes from the constant decay of radioactive isotopes inside the earth. From hot springs, geothermal energy has been used for bathing for tens of thousands of years and for space heating since ancient Roman times. It is now better known for electricity generation. <BR /> <BR />In 1892, America's first district heating scheme, in Idaho, was powered directly by geothermal energy. It was copied in Oregon in 1900. In the 20th century, demand for electricity led to the consideration of geothermal power as a generating source. Prince Ginori Conti, from Florence, tested the first geothermal power generator on 4 July 1904.”
“Geothermal power requires no fuel except for pumps. It is therefore immune from fuel cost fluctuations. However, the capital costs associated with it are very significant, and drilling accounts for over half the costs. The exploration of deep resources entails significant risks. For that reason, we need to ensure that this clean, green industry is supported. Personally, I am keen to see this work being taken forward by an arm of the state, by a company established to search for and extract natural resources in the interest of all our citizens and not to serve a small section of shareholders in multinational companies. <BR /> <BR />The opportunities present themselves from the resource itself. There is plenty of heat in the centre of the earth, and the deeper you dig the hotter it gets.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. I start with a word of congratulations to Mr McCrea on his recent appointment. I look forward to working with him in the future. <BR /> <BR />We need to move away from our over-reliance on fossil fuels and make the most of the opportunities that present themselves to us in the form of clean, green and sustainable sources of energy. Geothermal energy is an environmentally friendly, sustainable energy source that should be an integral part of the mix of energy sources we have. <BR /> <BR />Certain parts of the North are very well suited to that type of energy generation, particularly the Mournes, parts of the north coast and County Antrim and parts of south-west Fermanagh, ironically where drilling was proposed for fracking. Geothermal energy works in a very simple way.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. Gabhaim buíochas leis an Aire as ucht a freagra. The Minister will be aware that we have had changeable weather in September. I am interested to learn what impact these proposed changes will have on the proposed closing date for spreading slurry. As a secondary comment, I did not really know that there was that much interest in spreading slurry in South Belfast.”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Will you clarify what the convention is if a motion is tabled asking a Minister to take some form of action and the Minister decides not to come? How is it communicated to those who tabled the motion or to other Assembly Members that there will be no ministerial response?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. It might be useful to point out during Mr Boylan's emotive speech that I did not raise many of those issues because there is a motion on the no-day-named list from the all-party group on postal services that will deal with many of those issues.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a Phríomh-LeasCheann Comhairle. I thank the Minister for his answer. Given that we are nearly at the end of the autumn, even though you would not think it with the weather, does he have any indication of what will be in the report that he is teasing us with?”
“I thank the Member for North Down for giving way. I appreciate that this is not a transferred matter and that it is a matter for the Westminster Government. However, given that it was previously discussed at an NSMC meeting, does the Member not accept that there is a precedent for the North/South institutions to take an active interest in the subject?”
“I appeal to Members to support the motion.”
“They have committed itself to exploring the issue in the coming year, and I look forward to that work. The all-party group on postal services, of which I am a member, has also agreed to look into it this year. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, this problem needs to be sorted out. It is one of the simpler problems that we have looked at in the Assembly. I believe that, if the political will exists to exert pressure on those involved in this exercise in extortion, a solution can be found. The motion is only the first step, and a clear message needs to be sent out that the current situation is unacceptable and must change. The issue needs to be grasped at the North/South Ministerial Council. I am disappointed that there is no Minister here to respond to the debate. The issue clearly needs political and ministerial intervention to be resolved.”
“Since that survey took place, the price of a stamp has risen by a further 10p, so I do not think that public opinion will have improved much. The Consumer Council and, indeed, its predecessor, Consumer Focus Post, have taken an active interest in this subject matter and attempted to reflect the views of consumers by seeking a solution.”
“I am unsure what progress, if any, was made at this time. I believe that a paper was taken to the NSMC institutional meeting in October 2011. I had hoped that the Minister may have indicated what progress has been made, but there is nobody here, so I doubt we are going to hear about that progress. <BR /> <BR />I am grateful to Ofcom, which recently asked respondents to its annual communications market report for their satisfaction rating with cross-border postal services. Some people were surprised by the findings. I, for one, was not, as I speak on a daily basis to people who are afflicted by such nonsensical policies. Forty-seven per cent of adults surveyed by Ofcom indicated that the price of 87p to post a standard letter from one part of this island to the other was not value for money.”
“<BR /> <BR />Many reports and research exercises have identified the disproportionate cost of posting items across the border as a significant problem over recent years. In the 'Study of Obstacles to Mobility', which was carried out by PricewaterhouseCoopers for the North/South Ministerial Council (NSMC) and published in November 2001, the issue of cross-border postal services was identified as a problem for businesses, organisations and individuals involved in activities on both sides of the border. The issue of cross-border postal services was again discussed at the North/South Ministerial Council plenary meeting on 21 January 2011 following the publication of InterTradeIreland's quarterly business monitor in 2010, which revealed that 27% of businesses using cross-border post were dissatisfied with the cost of it.”
“<BR /> <BR />I raise this issue not merely to point up a problem that has existed for an awful long time but to identify a solution. We have to be honest about what is going on here. There are some in our society who are determined to exploit the border and rip customers off by imposing an unwarranted and unwanted tax on cross-border transactions. There are then those who are making the most of the opportunity to undercut the extortionate prices charged by the monopoly providers. <BR /> <BR />I think of the good work being done by Hybrid Mail in Fermanagh, which is run by Colum Courtney, who recently appeared on RTÉ's 'Dragon's Den'. I know that the Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment visited Colum two years ago. Organisations such as Colum's can provide a significant saving to customers using cross-border postal services.”
“I do not expect people who live in or never leave north Down to have the same appreciation of the impact of the border as the people who are faced with the adverse impact of the border on a daily basis. However, consider a couple who are planning a wedding. My brother and his fiancée are in this position. Many couples organising a wedding, particularly in border areas and when one of the two comes from the other side of the border, will have to send a considerable number of the invitations to the South. Faced with that situation, many people actually travel across the border to post the items to save on costs. The same challenges that face individuals also face businesses and countless organisations that are attempting to do business with people and groups on both sides of the border.”
“<BR /> <BR />For me, the most important part of the substantive motion is the call for a single pricing structure for mail being delivered anywhere on the island of Ireland. If An Post can offer a single pricing structure for the whole of Ireland, why can the same not be asked of all postal companies in the North? It could be done quite easily if they wanted. There are no legislative or practical impediments to such a policy decision. If it could be put in place, the only things that it would have to comply with would be the universal service obligation and the standard pricing structure for post going anywhere in Britain or anywhere in the North. <BR /> <BR />However, this debate is not primarily about postal charges; it is about the people and the organisations that rely on this vital service.”
“What makes things worse is that there is often a considerable delay in such items being received by the intended recipient, sometimes up to three days after it should be there. This is because, for some unknown reason, post destined for the rest of Ireland has to go on a round trip to Britain for sorting. Such a situation is just not good enough. We should not tolerate it, and we must challenge those involved in the postal sector to do much better. The policies that they put in place must reflect the particular circumstances of this island, which are being ignored by the current reality. The barrier that is the border makes no sense at all in respect of postal services.”
“However, that situation is not reflected in the price and standard of cross-border postal services.”
“Go raibh maith agat, a LeasCheann Comhairle. As we all know and have acknowledged on many occasions in the Chamber, the border presents a serious barrier to economic development on the island of Ireland. Some problems are quite challenging; some are quite complex; and some are quite ridiculous. The issue that we are debating today certainly falls into the latter category. The fact that it costs more to post a standard letter from Belcoo to Blacklion, a mere stone's throw apart, than it does to post the same letter to anywhere on the island of Britain or any of its offshore islands, makes absolutely no sense on any level. In fact, you could nearly crumple up one of those pieces of paper, make it into a paper aeroplane and throw it some of the distances in question.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. Mr Buchanan said that students must learn to budget as a life skill, but in no other sphere of life would you be given money on a three-monthly basis and asked to budget for three months without any money coming in. Instead of looking to take money from one fund and put it into another, would the Minister consider moving this to a monthly payment scheme to allow students to budget better in the same way as the rest of us do?”
“It is imperative, therefore, that appropriate support is put in place to protect students from falling into financial difficulty and having to rely on such sources of finance at extortionate interest rates or face dropping out of college. None of us wants that to happen; we can all agree on that. I ask each of you to support the motion and send a message out to students that their needs are a priority for all of us in the House.”
“We also see evidence that a food bank has been set up in one of our regional colleges; while payday loans, with their extortionate interest rates, are causing serious problems for our student population.”
“The cynic in me would say that colleges may well reduce the promotion and publication of the schemes as their allocated funding runs dry. Perhaps the Minister will clarify that the promotion of the schemes is consistent across opening times and will not simply be done when colleges are flush with cash. <BR /> <BR />It is concerning that the Department seems to dismiss the extent of the financial difficulties that students face. I do not think that any of us in here should do that. I am aware of the challenges that students face with soaring living costs and the continuing growth in poverty and deprivation among the student population, as highlighted in the recent NUS-USI report.”
“Perhaps the Minister will reflect on his recent meeting with NUS-USI in his contribution at the end of the debate. <BR /> <BR />Another problem that has been identified as a result of the controversy is how the hardship fund is promoted and marketed. It is my belief that serious improvements need to be made to the way in which the funds are promoted and publicised. Given that it is apparently a demand-led scheme, the quality and extent of promotion will have a major bearing on the level of demand. To improve the take-up of the schemes, the Department for Employment and Learning needs to work proactively with the students' union organisations, colleges and universities to make students aware of the availability of the support and how it can be accessed.”
“However, NUS-USI contends that demand and allocation should reflect the financial difficulties that students face in these times of rising living costs. They argue that the allocation to the fund does not reflect reality. <BR /> <BR />Moving on to Chris's point, one of the greatest problems has been the exclusion of student representatives from the discussions. I agree with NUS-USI that there needs to be much greater consultation on DEL's financial allocation to the student support funds to ensure that they reflect the very difficult financial circumstances that students face. I think that it is useful that the Minister recently met representatives from NUS-USI. One of my colleagues had been due to ask the Minister for an update on that meeting during Question Time today, but it is my understanding that that question has been withdrawn.”
“I certainly agree that we have been told that and, because we have been told that, I have no reason to disbelieve it. However, as I will come to in my free-flowing and lovely speech, I have some concerns about how the fund is promoted and marketed. I will come to that point in a minute. If you want to come back in at that stage to discuss that matter, I will happily let you. <BR /> <BR />NUS-USI has also argued that the eligibility criteria for allocating funds should be less restrictive to ensure that more people in significant financial difficulty can avail themselves of funding. However, my view is that those who are on a course that is part of their educational progression should be prioritised. <BR /> <BR />It has been said — it will be repeated today — that the hardship fund is demand-led.”
“Furthermore, 59% of those surveyed reported feeling overwhelmed by their finances and more than half, 52%, said that they had seriously considered leaving their courses and that financial difficulties had been a factor. That evidence cannot be ignored. It is clear that greater support needs to be provided to our FE population. <BR /> <BR />NUS-USI has also argued —”
“It has stated that it is fully aware that the FE awards fund has increased over the same period, but that it does not believe that that provides justification for reducing the hardship fund. <BR /> <BR />To support its argument, NUS-USI has used the findings of its recent research report, 'Pound in Your Pocket', which found that 52% of FE students over the age of 19 disagreed with the statement:”
“The motion talks about the need for the Minister to ensure that funding for student support is prioritised for those in greatest need, and I believe that the Department's statement on giving priority to those who are economically or socially disadvantaged certainly resonates with those sentiments. The fund is also provided to increase access, retention and the achievement of students in our further education colleges. <BR /> <BR />NUS-USI has taken umbrage at the Minister's policy decision — I suppose that is the phrase to use. It has stated that it is "deeply concerned" at the direct cut in hardship funds over the period 2009-2010 to 2014-15 and believes that hardship funding should be increased to take account of the rising living costs and financial difficulties that students face.”
“<BR /> <BR />We have been told that the key revisions in the hardship fund from 1 August are that college allocations are now based on the Civil Service's targeting social need student numbers from the 2012-13 academic year as well as historical data that is based on previous expenditure and the new criteria for the operation of the hardship fund. The hardship fund is intended to provide support to learners who are experiencing exceptional financial difficulty in meeting costs associated with learning. The Department for Employment and Learning states that priority should be given to learners who are economically or socially disadvantaged, which is a concept that I, of course, fully support.”
“However, the knock-on impact on further education students in financial hardship is, as yet, unknown. We are concerned that, given the growing rate of financial hardship amongst our student population, some people who are in desperate need of support may not able to access help if the budget allocated for hardship funds is not sufficient. There remains a degree of uncertainty as to how the funding allocation is calculated, and perhaps during his response to the debate or at some later stage, the Minister can provide us with the logic or, indeed, the algorithm that is used to allocate each college's funding allocation.”
“<BR /> <BR />In terms of background, there are two main sources of support for students who are undertaking an accredited course in one of the further education colleges. Both of those are means-tested, and we have been told that both are demand-led. On the face of it, changing how further education awards are distributed and, in particular, the changing of the closing date has allowed many more people to avail themselves of those funds and has apparently led to a knock-on reduction in the demand for the other source of funding, the hardship fund. In overall terms, we support that change. We think that it makes sense to get more people on to the bursary schemes at an earlier stage as opposed to trying to get them when they are in the deepest financial difficulty at the worst time of the year.”
“I am pleased to have the opportunity to bring this issue for debate before the Assembly today. I am aware that the Minister has what he terms "huge frustration" at what people are saying publicly about the hardship fund. He may well be frustrated at the response to his decision to reform how financial assistance is provided to students undertaking accredited courses at further education colleges. However, I believe that this debate will allow a sensible and rational discussion to take place and will afford the Minister the opportunity to outline the rationale for what has taken place. I hope that he notes the more conciliatory wording of the motion that is before us today as opposed to that in the initial one, and I hope that all Members can support the motion as presented.”