Robin Swann
North Antrim · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his detailed statement. I know how passionate he is about the subject and how many times he has brought it to the Executive.”
“It has been reported that today will potentially be the warmest day of the year. As we move into the summer and our summer holidays, I want to raise public awareness of wildfires across Northern Ireland, which have been detrimental to farmland and our environment over the past number of years.”
“Wildfires are still having a detrimental impact on our environment and, occasionally, on livestock, but that reduction shows the impact of the Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service's proactive approach to educating the general public and engaging with rural communities and schools on its fire safety message, which is to stay alert, not…”
“There has been a lot of talk of sport in this place over the past few days, with everybody concentrating on UEFA. One sport that is going on across Northern Ireland at the minute is cross-community and goes across all age groups without fear, favour or distinction: pigeon racing.”
“I want to put on record that, since this place passed the amendment that recognised pigeon racing as a sport under the 2016 Act, over the past five years, pigeon racing clubs across Northern Ireland have been able to obtain £113,000 of rates rebates through the sports and recreation rate relief, allowing many of those clubs to continue ra…”
“There was much coverage on social media over the weekend of an incident in Staines in England, in which a police car rammed a young calf to bring it under control. It has restarted the conversation about animal cruelty. <BR /> <BR />I am dealing with a specific case in my constituency.”
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“The Committee's report, published on 28 January, is testament to their hard work, given the pressing nature of the timetable as we fast approach the end of this mandate. The timely conclusion of the Committee Stage is such a significant achievement that it would be remiss of me not to acknowledge their work. While many of the amendments that I propose are technical in nature, a number of them are as a direct result of the Committee's scrutiny and engagement with stakeholders, and I believe that they will enhance provisions in the Bill. The amendments were drafted by the Office of the Legislative Counsel (OLC), working closely with my officials, and I thank them both for delivering those within such a challenging timescale.”
“I am sure, Mr Deputy Speaker, that you will agree with me that we, as a legislature, should do everything possible to try to enshrine in law the preservation of relevant records related to the institutions as quickly as possible. I would welcome other Members' support if we get to the point of a private Member's Bill. If it is not possible to pass a standalone Bill before the dissolution of the Assembly, it will be a matter for the incoming Minister of Health to decide how best to give effect to that panel recommendation in the next mandate. <BR /> <BR />I place on record my thanks to the Chair, the members and the staff of the Health Committee for the extremely thorough and efficient manner in which they conducted their scrutiny of such a substantial Bill.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am conscious of that, but I thought that, while speaking on this group, it is important to establish where we are. That is not in any way to challenge you or the Speaker’s determination; it is to inform those who have taken an extreme interest in the Bill. I wanted to update Members, as well as the Committee, that my party, along with others, is assessing whether it would be possible to take those clauses forward by way of a private Member’s Bill in the absence of an Executive, because that is now the only option available in this mandate. It would be extremely challenging on the ground, given the time available alone, although I have initiated the process. <BR /> <BR />Members are aware that that is an issue of grave significance to victims and survivors of the institutions.”
“Unfortunately, those amendments were not selected for debate today as they were deemed to be outside the scope of the Bill. Members will be aware —”
“<BR /> <BR />Members will be aware that Ms Dillon and I tabled amendments to insert new clauses aimed at ensuring the preservation of records relating to women and children in mother-and-baby institutions, workhouses and the Magdalene laundries. Those new clauses were intended to give effect to the truth recovery design panel's recommendation that immediate action be taken to create a statutory requirement on all relevant record holders to preserve and not destroy such information. The records that the new clauses sought to protect are a significant source of information and evidence for the future statutory public inquiry and the permanent comprehensive independent repository of historical institutional and adoption records and other records on children in state care.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, I am pleased to be able to open the debate and move amendment No 1. I thank you for permitting me to do so remotely, not least because the Bill has been long-awaited by all who are involved in the adoption process and by those who seek improvements for children and young people in and on the edges of care. The moving of such a significant Bill at Consideration Stage marks a further key milestone in its progression. I firmly believe that it will make a real difference to the lives of adopted children and adults; their adoptive parents and birth relatives; children in care; children on the edge of care; and care leavers.”
“<BR /> <BR />The overall objective of the policy remains the promotion of a positive, cultural and long-term change in attitudes and behaviours on organ donation. My Department is working with the health and social care system, the public sector, including local government and the education system, and wider society to promote organ donation through a coordinated and sustained communication programme. Those commitments are not impacted on by the proposed move to a statutory opt-out system. They will remain in place during and after the implementation of any new legislative framework. <BR /> <BR />I commend Dáithí's law, this Bill, to the House.”
“<BR /> <BR />I do not need to remind Members that reaching the Final Stage of the Bill is not the end of the matter. Members will be aware that the change in organ donation law is the first step in a staged approach. The introduction of an opt-out system for Northern Ireland must, therefore, be combined with continued efforts to promote public and professional education and long-term behavioural change. My Department will continue to implement the commitments set out in its 2018 policy statement. That will be in line with the statutory duty to promote transplantation, which was conferred on the Department by Part 4 of the Health (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act (Northern Ireland) 2016.”
“Mr Speaker, I thank you and your team for guiding us through the different iterations and procedures that have brought us here. <BR /> <BR />As Health Minister, I also thank the Chair, Deputy Chair and members of the Health Committee. As the Chair said, this is the first time that he has had an opportunity to speak on the Bill. However, the work that the Committee did behind the scenes on engagement and consultation was intense and appropriate in scrutinising the draft legislation and what could and should come forward. It is a testimony to my officials that, even after the support, guidance, and questions of the Health Committee, the legislation has got to this stage in the same form that it was first proposed. That is because officials took the time to see what has worked, and what continues to work, elsewhere.”
“<BR /> <BR />Mr Catney reminded me — and Mr Givan spoke about it — of the day last summer when Mr Givan, the deputy First Minister and I met Dáithí, Seph and Maírtín after the urgent procedure had been signed off. I remember well the right hook that Dáithí gave Paul. I have thought about it since — quite a bit actually. <BR /> <BR />Mr Carroll spoke about the legislation having taken so long. Since it was first brought to this place, it has taken quite a long time. However, since this iteration of the Assembly first brought it to the Floor, we have progressed it in 18 months. We were already in a shortened mandate. We had a lot of work to do, and we did it. We have delivered. I thank Members, the staff in the Department, the organisations, the charities and everyone who has contributed.”
“He spoke about the contribution of Jo-Anne Dobson and how, at that point, we could have aligned with the rest of the United Kingdom. If we had have taken the step with Jo-Anne, we would have led the United Kingdom in soft opt-out organ donation. However, we are where we are today and, thankfully, we have now aligned. <BR /> <BR />There was a reception upstairs and the chief executive of the British Heart Foundation indicated that the same conversations have now started in the Dáil. The Health Minister in the Republic of Ireland is now looking at the scope to introduce similar legislation. I say to my Health colleague, Stephen Donnelly, that if there is any assistance that we can give to help them through the process, the offer is there.”
“Mr Catney spoke about the journey that we have been on in this place. I want to correct Pat slightly, but not get him as agitated as he was before.”
“I would not want you to be slighted by your party. I agree with the Member, because many of us have referenced Dáithí today and have met him. What a dynamo. It is with pleasure that I ask for the legislation to be commonly known as Dáithí's law, because that is a fitting tribute to what he, his family and all the other contributors have been able to bring about.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is also about a deeper contribution of hope. This is a Bill that demonstrates what this place can do when people work together at their best and when they want to deliver for the people of Northern Ireland. So much goes on in here and across parties. I hope that things like the Bill do not get lost — they should not get lost — on the general public of Northern Ireland. There are politicians, many of us in here, who want to make this place and Northern Ireland work, and we are committed to doing that. <BR /> <BR />In her contribution, Deborah Erskine spoke of a "little warrior" and a "superhero". I think that Deborah was referring to Dáithí, but I want to clarify that for the record.”
“Through your support, Mr Speaker, we were able to have the First Stage prior to the summer recess, and that is why we have been able to meet the timeline to be where we are today. All those pieces came together through personal commitment and support because we all know that this is the right thing to do. <BR /> <BR />As many Members have said, the Bill is what this place is truly about. It is about bringing forward legislation and delivering for the people of Northern Ireland. Again, I put on record my thanks to Mr Givan for taking that step at that time, because it allowed us to get where we are today. He finished his contribution by talking about hope. I believe that that is truly what the Bill brings to the people of Northern Ireland and those who are waiting on organ donation waiting lists.”
“Mr Dickson reminded us that the reason for the Bill is to get Northern Ireland to the international target rate of 80% of transplants coming from deceased donors, and that is central to the Bill. <BR /> <BR />Mr Givan spoke about "the gift of life", and I am disappointed that he did not remain in the Chamber, because I want to take the opportunity to thank him for his support and belief in the legislation. He described the Executive meeting when the Bill was first discussed as "heated"; I would say that it was spirited. However, it led to the further conversations that evening, which Mr Givan alluded to, that allowed him, as First Minister, to move on the urgent procedure recommendation for the Bill.”
“<BR /> <BR />Mr Gildernew indicated that Pat Sheehan had suggested that he may bring forward the issue in a private Member's Bill, but I indicated that it was already my intention to introduce the Bill as a Minister. It can go on record that that may have been one of the things, if not the only thing, that Mr Sheehan and I agreed on during his time on the Health Committee. Again, that was because it was the right thing to do. <BR /> <BR />Stewart Dickson's contribution recognised the work that Jo-Anne Dobson started, but it was also a personal testimony. Many Members have spoken, inside and outside the Chamber, about what the gift of donation means to both the donor and the recipient. Mr Givan — unfortunately, he is not in the Chamber — spoke about "the gift of life", and that gets to the very crux of what the Bill is about.”
“<BR /> <BR />Mr Chambers spoke of today being a "momentous day" and paid tribute to our party colleague Jo-Anne Dobson and a number of other Members. I remember Jo-Anne working through similar legislation during her time as an MLA. I am grateful that Jo-Anne is present in the Assembly today to, hopefully, see the Bill pass its Final Stage. As I said in my opening contribution, her commitment convinced me that this was the right way to go. When I had the opportunity to take this post, I spoke to Jo-Anne first about how we could not only progress the issue from a departmental point of view but honour the fact, which Mr Chambers alluded to, that this piece of legislation was an Ulster Unionist Party manifesto commitment and one that we are content to see through during this mandate.”
“In that way, the Bill preserves the protection of an individual's decision, as donation can proceed only where there is first-person consent or where consent can be deemed. It is not, however, mandated that it must proceed. <BR /> <BR />Colin McGrath spoke about Rachael's story. Having spoken to members of Mr McGrath's party support staff, I am aware of Rachael's story, her personal contribution and the gift that she gave to others. I am also aware of the gift that her family gave through the approach that they took and the decision that they made. So, I pay thanks to Rachael's family for their decision and to all those families and donors who have made the decision in the last number of years to support donor transplants.”
“So, the family are always encouraged by the specialist nurse in organ donation to support their loved one's last known decision, and time will be spent exploring concerns that the family may have, but the patient's decision is always central to that conversation. Under the proposed deemed consent system, the focus of the donor family conversation will shift. So, unless there is a known expression or decision on whether to become a donor, the patient is considered to be willing to donate, and the family will be encouraged to support that position. <BR /> <BR />If the Bill is passed, the relevant code of practice will be revised accordingly, and staff working in intensive care units will receive training under the revised code before the new system goes live.”
“In fact, the donation conversation will be necessary for deemed consent to be applied, as it can come into effect only when it is understood by the specialist nurse in organ donation that no prior decision was given in life. Therefore, for a person's consent to be deemed, the family or a person in a qualifying relationship needs to advise that they are unaware of a prior donation decision where that cannot be ascertained. That will continue to be part of the conversation. <BR /> <BR />Mr Givan raised the issue of protecting an individual's wish to donate. Under the current consent system, donor family conversations always focus on what the potential donor wanted.”
“It is important that it is part of not only the Bill but the Department's forward work programme. <BR /> <BR />Part of the conversation was about the importance of family involvement. Mrs Cameron raised that first, but it was raised by a number of Members. Donation conversations with families or a person in a qualifying relationship are an additional part of the donation process, and they are conducted by highly trained and experienced clinicians, usually a specialist nurse in organ donation. That is in line with the relevant provisions of the Human Tissue Act and the associated codes of practice. The Bill will not introduce any change to that requirement, but it shifts the focus of the conversation.”
“Working with the community and voluntary sector will further strengthen outreach across all parts of society. As Mr Dickson said, throughout the completion of this work, engaging with children and young people will be important, and the resources available to schools will be important. <BR /> <BR />The campaign planning will examine the use of a range of media channels to maximise exposure. A media strategy is being developed to analyse and plan the most effective channels and timings. Research will be planned at regular intervals, including carrying out a baseline survey prior to any awareness activities. That will monitor levels of awareness and the understanding of the law change, and any insights will be used to amend awareness activities if required. That will be an ongoing process, and it is something that Mrs Cameron raised.”
“<BR /> <BR />Subject to the enactment of the Bill, an enhanced programme of intensive communications will run throughout the 12-month implementation period to ensure adequate time for awareness before going live and for a further 12 months thereafter. Activity will be tailored to specific audiences as well as to the general population, which will ensure that audiences are engaged in the most appropriate manner. Engagement has commenced with lead organisations and area focus groups to allow members or leaders to establish their communication requirements. That includes engagement with BAME networks, faith networks and older people's networks.”
“We have gone further, because the Bill proposes an additional statutory duty with regard to annual promotion and reporting specifically on deemed consent. That will build on my Department's existing statutory duty to promote organ donation and transplantation. The objective is to ensure that the legislative changes are fully understood across all sections of the population and that as many people as possible are aware of the law change and how to register decisions if they wish. In the longer term, the majority of that work will become part of the rolling programme for the promotion of organ donation, much of which is achieved at minimal cost due to the current coordinated and collaborative working approach.”
“<BR /> <BR />I thank Mrs Pam Cameron for her personal support for the legislation throughout its various stages and for the work that I know that she did with her party in getting the Bill to where it is. I also thank those in her party who supported the Bill for the conversations that were had with people in the party who did not feel that they could support it at Second Stage about what it meant and could mean and, more importantly, the gift that organ donation brings. It allowed them to have that conversation. I remember the debate at Second Stage and the democratic contribution made by DUP Members to that debate, as was their right. <BR /> <BR />Mrs Cameron, along with Mr Dickson, I think, and a number of other Members, talked about public awareness and the importance of promotional campaigns and how we should learn from Wales.”
“I thank the Members who contributed to the debate and the campaigners who are present in the Assembly to see the Bill pass its Final Stage. <BR /> <BR />In making my winding-up speech, I want to refer to a number of points that were raised by contributors to the debate. I will start with Michelle O'Neill, who rightly indicated that the Bill has generated healthy conversations on organ donation across workplaces, in homes, in the bar and in a number of other avenues. As Mrs Erskine said, even tonight, it will generate those conversations in many homes so that people can understand the true wishes of many individuals across Northern Ireland when it comes to organ donation.”
“I hope that the passage of the Bill fittingly honours our past donors and donor families by taking organ donation and transplantation to the next level for current and future generations. I therefore urge all Members to support the Bill, and I commend it to the House.”
“Every one of those is a decision that has helped another person to live or have a better quality of life. We are fortunate to live in a place where people have such generosity, compassion and kindness towards others, and we are fortunate to have a health system, which has grown alongside that, to provide a world-class transplantation service.”
“<BR /> <BR />I thank my departmental officials for their work and support in drafting the legislation. Their work was notable by the fact that no amendments were tabled to the legislation at any stage. <BR /> <BR />Finally, I acknowledge every one of the 2,307 living and deceased organ donors and their families from across Northern Ireland who have given the ultimate gift of a donated organ.”
“<BR /> <BR />I thank those who have assisted and advised my Department in the development of the Bill, particularly NHS Blood and Transplant, the Human Tissue Authority, the British Medical Association, the Public Health Agency and our exceptional clinicians and specialist nurses who work in the field of organ donation and transplantation. I thank the Health Committee — its Chair, members and staff — and all the Members who have contributed to the passage of the Bill. <BR /> <BR />It is also important that I recognise the expert input from the Office of the Legislative Counsel in the preparation of the legislation. In particular, I acknowledge Mr David Sewell, who drafted the Bill but, sadly, passed away late last year. His support and advice throughout was greatly appreciated by my Department.”
“Every other part of the end-of-life care pathway will remain unchanged and will be conducted in line with current clinical and professional standards. <BR /> <BR />Those individuals who do not wish to donate their organs will still be able to record their decision on the NHS organ donation register. They will be able to that through the NHS Blood and Transplant website or its helpline. They can also discuss the issue and let their families know their decision. Under the new law, being an organ donor will still be your choice. Organ donation will remain a priceless gift.”
“Approximately one in four families decide to not proceed with donation when faced with that decision, most often because they do not know what their loved one would have wanted or what decisions they had made. When families know what their loved ones would have wanted, they are much more likely to honour those wishes. <BR /> <BR />It is important to emphasise that families and loved ones will continue to play an essential role in a deemed consent system. The effect of the proposed change to the current law will be to shift the focus to the donation conversation. That conversation is conducted with families at the end of life by expert NHS specialist nurses in order to establish the known decisions of their loved ones.”
“It will be vital to make sure that the public fully understands the new law. Accordingly, the Bill includes a requirement for my Department to inform the public about deemed consent every year. In order to meet that requirement, there will be 12 months of comprehensive public engagement and advertising before and after the law comes into effect. Thereafter, that work will become part of the rolling programme for promoting organ donation, which my Department oversees. <BR /> <BR />Half of our population have joined the NHS organ donor register, which represents a steady increase from 30% since 2013. Many more than that — consistently around 90% — say that they support organ donation. However, that means that families are often left with a difficult decision when a loved one dies.”
“Doing so will increase the overall number of donors and, ultimately, the number of life-saving organs that are available for transplantation to those people in Northern Ireland who are on the transplant waiting list. The consent rate is normally around two thirds of possible cases. We want that to be consistently at 80% or above, as that will make a real difference to those who are on transplant waiting lists. This Bill, alongside continuing public education and awareness, has the potential to achieve that. <BR /> <BR />It will be considered that everyone living in Northern Ireland agrees to donate their organs when they die, unless they have confirmed otherwise by opting out of the organ donor register or have otherwise made their decision known or they are from one of the excluded groups.”
“Agreement from the Assembly will permit my Department to begin a full year of implementation preparations, which will include comprehensive public awareness campaigns and staff training, before deemed consent comes into effect in the spring of 2023. It is important that we take this time to inform people and encourage them to have the conversations that they need to have. <BR /> <BR />I would like to recap the particular elements of the Bill and what it seeks to achieve. Our strategic aim is to increase the rate of consent in the small number of cases in which it is clinically possible for organ donation to proceed after a person's death.”
“It is about the passion of Jo-Anne, of Dáithí and of Maírtín and Seph, his parents. As a parent of a child with a congenital heart defect, I know only too well what has driven them to campaign for legislation to get the support that is necessary. <BR /> <BR />For them and for the patients who will benefit from organ transplants in the future, the Bill's reaching Final Stage is an important moment.”
“On their behalf, I am extremely pleased to have been able to bring forward this legislation in my tenure as Health Minister. <BR /> <BR />I once again place on record my sincere thanks to Jo-Anne Dobson, who started the journey and who personally convinced me that our organ donation laws needed to change. I also thank the many individuals, families, teachers, patient support groups and charities across Northern Ireland who have worked tirelessly over many years to promote organ donation. <BR /> <BR />There are too many to name, but particular recognition must go to the Mac Gabhann family for its resolve in not only campaigning for a change in the law but raising awareness and support for organ donation in Northern Ireland. That is why I ask that the Bill be commonly known as Dáithí's law.”
“The Bill illustrates precisely why it is so important for us to have a functioning, progressive Assembly in Northern Ireland: one that works to improve life for all our people. It is only two years since New Decade, New Approach, and we once again face political uncertainty that threatens to deny this place and the citizens of Northern Ireland future opportunities to bring forward positive changes. <BR /> <BR />It is in that context that I have great pleasure, and some relief, in moving the Final Stage of this Bill. As we all know, it has been long-awaited by so many who are involved in organ donation and transplantation. One of the greatest challenges has been bringing the Bill forward in a shortened mandate. The support from the public and all those who have long campaigned for it, however, has helped secure its passage to this point.”
“No one has expressed a negative opinion, and I have the support of the Chair of the Health Committee. I therefore ask that the motion be agreed.”
“It is therefore only fitting that I have moved the motion to suspend Standing Order 42(1) in order to accommodate the Mac Gabhann family, who are present at the Bill's Final Stage. I trust that I will get the support of the House on that basis.”
“Standing Order 42(1) provides that there should be a minimum of five working days between each Consideration Stage of any Bill. I fully recognise that providing that time between stages serves to ensure the Assembly's detailed legislative scrutiny by providing Members with the opportunity to consider in detail the legislation that is being proposed. I ask that it be noted that no amendments have been tabled to the Bill at any stage, despite a number of Members expressing their opposition at Second Stage. <BR /> <BR />I am sure that Members are aware of the Donate4Dáithí campaign and how Dáithí and his family have been involved in campaigning for and promoting the Bill.”
“By making safer choices, following public health advice and complying with the regulations, we can all play our part to help lower the spread of COVID-19. I commend the regulations to the Assembly.”
“As we move through one of the most difficult times that we have faced throughout the pandemic, we are again asking everyone to look after themselves and one other by following the simple precautions: get your first and second vaccine doses and your booster; limit your social contacts; meet outdoors when possible; if meeting indoors, make sure that the rooms are well-ventilated; wear a face covering in crowded indoor spaces; take a lateral flow test before meeting others; and practise good hand and respiratory hygiene.”
“I thank the Member. I apologise to the Chair, because he had raised that point. The Member will be aware that when I was most recently here for Question Time, I said that I had given instructions to the trusts to include in their three-monthly rebuild plans details on when those services would be up and running again. I will get that clarity for the Chair from each of the trusts when those plans are updated and published. <BR /> <BR />I hope that I have answered as many Members' queries and questions as possible. In closing, I remind Members that the choices that we make now will be crucial in ensuring that the virus does not begin to spread once more. As we continue to remove the remaining restrictions, our society will move closer to a return to normal life.”
“The recommendations that we provide and the advice and guidance that are given to schools and boards of governors to follow are a conjoined piece of work between the Department of Education, the Education Authority, the Public Health Agency and we in the Department of Health. <BR /> <BR />I hope that I have answered as many —”
“I encourage everybody to do that, because we have seen the difference that our vaccination programme has made to the seriousness of the illness, hospitalisation rates and pressures on our ICU. Mr Chambers commented on the legal eagles who are out there. We have found a new cohort of legal eagles on social media who have moved from being experts on epidemiology to being experts on legality and what lies in regulations and law. <BR /> <BR />Ms Armstrong made a point on the schools issue. That has been raised by the Education Committee, and there has been a recall for a debate in the House on it, but, as the Member will be aware, schools and education have always sat outside the regulations.”
“I thank her for the encouragement to seek further guidance on the ability to reintroduce or extend powers should that be necessary, considering where we currently sit. <BR /> <BR />Mr McGrath's comments re-emphasise the commitment and all-party support that I still see and feel in the House for our health service and those who work in it. I hope that that apolitical support continues over the next weeks and months because it will be crucial as we see what happens and what our health service needs to do as it re-engages in the work that it wants to do. <BR /> <BR />Mr Chambers talked about the game changer, which is our vaccination programme. Again, I encourage anyone who has not yet taken up availability in any stage of the vaccination programme to come forward, should that be for a first dose, second dose or booster dose.”
“I encourage anyone who has still to come forward to take part in the vaccination programme, whether that is because they have not started it or still have to complete it, to take the opportunity to do so while the vaccine is here. <BR /> <BR />The Deputy Chair, Ms Pam Cameron, reminded us that, unfortunately, there are still people losing their lives due to the virus but that there are things that we can all do and continue to do. She is right. I know that there were times when it was difficult for her and her party to support some of the propositions that I was bringing forward, but they did, because we knew that it was right to have that collective support to combat COVID, and we continue to have that.”
“I remind Members, although they will be fully aware of this, that in, I think, November 2020, a cross-community vote was taken in the Executive not to proceed at a certain point with recommendations that came forward. That demonstrates that, legally, that power rested with the Executive as a body corporate, but, as I said, I have not received the final legal advice on what responsibilities or powers lie with me as a Minister, given where we are politically. <BR /> <BR />I replicate and reiterate the Chair's words of thanks to the people of Northern Ireland for the steps that they have taken and the dedication and support that they have shown in following the regulations and guidance over the past two years. We need to continue to take those steps because we are not yet completely out of the situation.”