Robin Swann
North Antrim · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his detailed statement. I know how passionate he is about the subject and how many times he has brought it to the Executive.”
“It has been reported that today will potentially be the warmest day of the year. As we move into the summer and our summer holidays, I want to raise public awareness of wildfires across Northern Ireland, which have been detrimental to farmland and our environment over the past number of years.”
“Wildfires are still having a detrimental impact on our environment and, occasionally, on livestock, but that reduction shows the impact of the Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service's proactive approach to educating the general public and engaging with rural communities and schools on its fire safety message, which is to stay alert, not…”
“There has been a lot of talk of sport in this place over the past few days, with everybody concentrating on UEFA. One sport that is going on across Northern Ireland at the minute is cross-community and goes across all age groups without fear, favour or distinction: pigeon racing.”
“I want to put on record that, since this place passed the amendment that recognised pigeon racing as a sport under the 2016 Act, over the past five years, pigeon racing clubs across Northern Ireland have been able to obtain £113,000 of rates rebates through the sports and recreation rate relief, allowing many of those clubs to continue ra…”
“There was much coverage on social media over the weekend of an incident in Staines in England, in which a police car rammed a young calf to bring it under control. It has restarted the conversation about animal cruelty. <BR /> <BR />I am dealing with a specific case in my constituency.”
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“That is not information that I have readily to hand for the Member. One of the benefits that can be seen from the vaccination programme is the number of care homes that we are supporting through outbreaks. In February, the number was 150; today it is 14. We can already see the benefits of the vaccination programme. Unfortunately, with the noise that was created by the announcement yesterday, what was missed was that we reported zero deaths for those who had tested positive for COVID-19. That is a big step for us. We have not been able to make that announcement since October of last year, and it shows the direction of travel that we are taking. That is not just because of the regulations; having a vaccination programme is a direct benefit and correlation to that.”
“The MHRA again advised people that they should still get their COVID-19 vaccine when asked to do so.”
“On the public messaging, the MHRA was clear when it came back to a request from us yesterday following the decision of the Irish authorities. It stated that it was:”
“but that it was "unlikely to change its recommendations". Its spokesperson also said:”
“I thank the Member. He rightly acknowledged the statement from the World Health Organization, which has published a further statement today appealing to countries not to pause vaccination campaigns. It stated that its”
“I know that the Member is passionate about that. He will also know that the Executive are due to meet tomorrow to discuss regulations. I am sure that he knows that I do not make those discussions or any of our recommendations public until the Executive have had the chance to debate and decide on them as a whole.”
“I thank the Member for making that point. Today, I ask all Members to choose their words carefully. We are all laypeople, after all, and we must remember that the rash and uninformed words of some could have consequences and add fuel to the fire of the anti-vaxxers. The assessment of a vaccine's safety and efficacy is best left to the professionals and experts. That is why we have always followed the evidence-led advice that the Chair of the Health Committee rightly acknowledged.”
“However, I am looking forward to the stage when we can move down to the next age cohort. I can assure the Member that I will be in that line.”
“The Chair of the Committee will know that I believe that actions speak louder than words. This morning, we saw the Chief Medical Officer come forward to take his vaccine. I now hear that the Chair of the Health Committee is going to take his vaccine. Those actions and displays of public confidence in the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine and the vaccination programme should be a sign to the people of Northern Ireland that the people who set this out are setting the example and taking the vaccine. <BR /> <BR />Unfortunately, I must say to the Chair that I do not fall into that cohort”
“<BR /> <BR />The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is helping to protect the most vulnerable in our community from COVID-19, saving lives and reducing hospitalisation levels. I urge everyone to look beyond the actions of others and have faith in the extensive evidence that the UK already has. The vaccine works, so I urge people to keep coming forward and ask all in the House to support me in that call.”
“The evidence available from the UK's very large data set shows no unusual correlation between receiving the vaccine and the frequency at which blood clots occur naturally. I therefore urge the people of Northern Ireland to keep their appointments. <BR /> <BR />In line with the MHRA guidance, the roll-out of Northern Ireland's vaccination programme will continue. As you may now be aware, as of this morning, we have expanded the programme to everyone aged 50 years and over. I can confirm that, within the first three hours of today alone, a further 30,000 people booked a vaccine. That is very reassuring, and we should take it as an indication that the vast majority of the local population have confidence in the vaccine. We are now looking to add slots.”
“Despite what individual EU member states are doing, it is also important to remember that the statement issued by the European Medicines Agency (EMA) on Thursday said that the available evidence does not confirm an association with the vaccine. It is also very clear that the benefits of the vaccine outweigh any risks. The World Health Organization has also stated that countries should continue to use the vaccine. <BR /> <BR />I recognise, however, that any talk about the safety of vaccines can be very worrying. I want to take the opportunity to reassure everyone listening that the evidence, as reviewed by the MHRA, shows no correlation between the vaccine and the reported blood clot events. To date, 11 million doses of the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine have been administered in the United Kingdom, including 310,000 doses in Northern Ireland.”
“As the House will know, the Northern Ireland health service administers COVID-19 vaccines under the expert direction of the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA). The MHRA is the internationally respected UK regulatory body for medicines and approves vaccines for public use only when it is satisfied on grounds of safety and effectiveness. While my Department is aware of the decision of the public health authorities in some other jurisdictions to suspend the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine as a precautionary measure, I will, in this instance, again be led by MHRA experts. They are very clear that members of the public should continue to come forward for their vaccination.”
“I beg to introduce the Health and Social Care Bill, which is a Bill to dissolve the Regional Health and Social Care Board; to make provision for and in connection with the exercise by the Department of Health and Health and Social Care trusts of the functions of the Board; and for connected purposes.”
“<BR /> <BR />Secondly, I remind everyone that the most important action that people can take to limit the spread of the virus is still to stay at home, to limit our contact with others, and to isolate from others immediately and seek a coronavirus test if they have any symptoms. Doing that has made a difference, and it continues to do so, so I am asking people please not to give up now. We have talked about the hope that our vaccination programme is bringing, and we can see that credibly in care homes, in the reduction in hospital admissions and in the decrease in the number of over-60s who are testing positive. Let us not lose the benefit that our actions are bringing. As I said, they have made a difference and continue to do so, so please do not give up. I commend the regulations to the Assembly.”
“Mr Allister was the last to speak, but I addressed a number of his points in my general comments. I hope that I have addressed as many comments and answered as many queries from Members as possible. <BR /> <BR />In closing, I would like to do two things. First, I express thanks and appreciation from all of us to all those who are working across our health service during this most difficult time. I thank the public for adhering to the guidance and regulations that are in place. I know that it is not easy, so I commend the public for their strong support and contribution to reducing the impact of COVID-19 in our community.”
“It is, however, about introducing safe and controlled measures so that all the small pieces do not add up to an increase in the spread of the virus. <BR /> <BR />Mr Chambers talked about appreciation for our health advisers and the health service in general. The health service is something that we should not underestimate, and I do not think that anybody in the House does. An attack on our health service, however, should it be veiled, referring to health officials or health advisers, is felt across the service and is taken personally by many as a challenge to what they are doing. Staff are edgy and tired, having been through the mill for a number of months. This is about the support that the House can give as well. <BR /> <BR />That ends my commentary on the majority of Members' contributions.”
“It is therefore about collective engagement and a collective assessment of the health regulations in their entirety. In the past, I have brought to the Executive recommendations on restrictions on travel that have not been accepted. In answer to Mr Allister's other question, however, should restricting travel South/North become a necessity in order to manage the virus, I will not hesitate in doing that. <BR /> <BR />Mr McNulty's contribution contained specific asks about the return of youth sport, and sport in general, which is something that he campaigns for very strongly and in which he has a great personal interest. Again, I refer the Member to the fact that a document will be produced on 1 March. It will come forward with the support of the whole Executive, including his own party's Minister.”
“Mr Givan also raised the issue of enforcement of the regulations. As Health Minister, the enforcement of some of the regulations and the reaction of bodies that should be enforcing them as to whether they see doing so as being within their remit has been a running sore for me for a very long time. <BR /> <BR />Some papers, which Mr Allister referred to, have been brought forward on where ministerial responsibility lies. The responsibility for these regulations lies with me. They have been brought forward in my name. Many papers and propositions are brought to the Executive by various Ministers and Departments on specific issues. Papers on travel were brought forward by the Justice Minister, and she has in the past moved health regulations in the House.”
“There was challenge and commentary, but there was no vote or division on it towards the end.”
“We are not talking about doctoring. There were conversations between my Department and the Department of Education on what we saw as a staged response to education, bringing different cohorts back and allowing us to assess what effect that would have on transmission. I would say what effect that would have on the R number, but I do not want to take the Member down that discussion again. <BR /> <BR />What cohorts were brought back and in what order was not a priority for my Department. It was about the numbers, the structures, the number of movements and the effect that that would have on the transmissibility of the virus in Northern Ireland. The product of the paper that was brought by the Education Minister to the Executive was accepted by the Executive.”
“I do not do this easily or lightly in regard to conversations at the Executive. There have been conversations about schools in today's debate: schools are not included or mentioned in the regulations. The matter of schools is brought forward and discussed in a paper from the Education Minister, as it was last Thursday. That paper presented two options, one of which was adopted by the Executive as a whole as it was in the paper. That option was published by the First Minister and deputy First Minister last week and has been commented on since. Schools have always been in that discussion in the Executive: they are not part of these regulations.”
“The Member makes the point, and I have often said that I do not discuss conversations that will happen in the Executive prior to them happening. The Member's party leader, as First Minister, said that she wants the issue to be discussed again at the next Executive meeting on Thursday. The Chief Medical Officer, as always, will make his presentation and his case at that point on his view of the science. The same science and detail is being looked at by the four CMOs. England has taken a very different approach from Scotland, from Wales and from us. It is about taking that balance. Mr Stalford has come in. It is about Ministers taking that decision and the collective nature of our Executive as well. <BR /> <BR />That leads into some of the questions that were raised by Mr Allister about schools.”
“The issue is what schools being open means for wider society and the health service in terms of fuelling transmission.”
“It is often useful to read below the headline and past the tweet to see what our health officials are actually recommending. <BR /> <BR />Mr Givan asked for clarity on the statement on schools that was issued by the four Chief Medical Officers on 23 August last year. I am willing to share it. I think that the Chair of the Committee asked for it to be shared as well. In earlier commentary — I think that it was during Question Time — I said that there were strong grounds for looking at what has been said and believing that Professor Whitty had maybe been misquoted and that it is principally a reference to the joint CMO statement that was made last August on the return to school. It was made clear that the return to school was the best option from the child's point of view, and that has never been in dispute.”
“<BR /> <BR />Ms Ní Chuilín raised the anomalies that the regulations address. They are anomalies that were highlighted after the regulations were made, such as the measuring of feet for shoes. Such anomalies come up when we have discussions. When we look at the bare bones of what the regulations mean, we can address those anomalies. <BR /> <BR />Mr Givan has contributed to other debates on health regulations but maybe not in as detailed a way as he did today. There was some commentary about the headlines attributed to our Chief Medical Officer. What the Chief Medical Officer said was that "some restrictions" may continue, and I thank Mr Buckley for acknowledging that his words were taken out of context by some in the media to create the narrative that they wanted.”
“Often, these debates serve as personal reminders of what the virus does to many people. Hearing in the House about the passing of a 42-year-old mother dispels the narrative that COVID is a virus that affects only the elderly and people with dementia: it does not. So many people in Northern Ireland and across the world have lost loved ones to what is a cruel, cruel virus. <BR /> <BR />Ms Ní Chuilín is no longer in the Chamber. She asked me what community engagement I have had, and I will supply that answer to her. The regulations allow support for mental health to continue through the health service and our voluntary mental health support groups, which help with a range of issues, including entering private homes to assist someone in distress. I will supply an update with those specifics to the Member.”
“Since this time last year — pre COVID — we have struggled with a lack of investment in our staff, our structures and the support that we need. We had a health service that was being run on a shoestring and was on its knees. We now need the Executive to acknowledge that and appropriately support everything that is needed to make sure that we have a health service that not only recovers from the pandemic but is fit for purpose as we get back to normal business. I think that Mr Poots's phrase was that we should "unleash our specialists": with the support of the anaesthetists and the theatre nurses, I would love to do that. However, I want to unleash other parts of our health service without unleashing another wave of COVID. We cannot afford to do that. <BR /> <BR />I will move on to Ms Ní Chuilín's contribution.”
“You do not recall that? I will get Hansard, Jonny. It is all right. <BR /> <BR />COVID is our enemy. It is not about health versus education. It is not about health versus the economy. It is not about health versus society. It is about COVID being the challenge for all of us in all those sectors. I think that it was Mr Poots who said that it was about getting a balance and dealing with the challenges that that balance and those decisions bring. When we come out of the current lockdown, let us, to use his phraseology, do it sensibly, not rampantly. We will take that approach. We are so close. It would be a waste to lose that. <BR /> <BR />As always, Mr Poots made a point about the normalisation of our health service. As a former Health Minister, he speaks about that from experience.”
“Mr Poots used a phrase that I used previously in the House: "COVID is the enemy". Mr Buckley took me to task when I used that phrase a number of months ago.”
“The purchasing of the vaccines was so far-sighted, and we are now utilising them.”
“I would welcome him back to the Executive, because the challenge that he brought to the House during the debate is the same challenge that he brings to the Executive when we are discussing the regulations. That is useful and necessary, because our form of government should not simply be about complying. I have said this in here before: if anybody in the House thinks that I simply walk into the Executive meeting and get everything that I want every time, they are sadly mistaken. If only it were so. Mr Poots can confirm that. <BR /> <BR />Mr Poots mentioned the benefits of the vaccination programme. Again, I do not think that we should waste what is a world-leading vaccination programme. We should not lose the benefit that that is bringing as part of our response.”
“At that time, the Executive Office established a task force very quickly, which included the PSNI, Belfast City Council and the universities, to decide what support measures could be put in place for residents in the Holylands and to make sure that there was enforcement and compliance among those individuals so that they were following COVID regulations. That is coming out of today's debate. Ms Bradshaw has raised the issue previously, and we will take that forward, as well as highlighting it with other Executive colleagues. <BR /> <BR />I will move on to Mr Poots's contribution. I made a joke about having Edwin on my back earlier. It was light-hearted, and I am glad to see Edwin back.”
“<BR /> <BR />Ms Bradshaw made some comments. I am not sure, Mr Deputy Speaker, whether Ms Bradshaw gets to hear feedback or whether she is still on-screen. It is a new experience. She asked whether the Public Health Agency could publish where we are seeing those outbreaks. A format of that document went to the Executive last Thursday, and my intention is that the Public Health Agency will publish it as part of its weekly summary of outbreaks so that Members and others can see where those outbreaks are happening. She asked about the next round of reviews. Hopefully, the next round of reviews will also look at the Executive's pathway to recovery. <BR /> <BR />The Member mentioned her constituency and an issue that raised concerns for a short period last year in the Holylands.”
“<BR /> <BR />Ms Hunter talked about the investment and what we do now. It is about utilising the time that we have in the next number of weeks to invest in what we are doing, and we can then get that payback sooner. We can spend the benefit of the vaccination programme and the goodwill of our health staff only so many times before that support is no longer there. It is about how we make sure — I do not say this lightly — that this is our last lockdown. Let us do this one right. Let us come out of it gradually. Let us come out of it in a managed way. Let us come out of it while making sure that we are getting the benefits of the vaccination programme. Let us not rush out of this lockdown now, meaning that we have to rush into another one when we start to see an increase in cases and hospitalisations.”
“The point has been made at the Executive that what is non-essential during a four-week lockdown becomes essential once that lockdown starts to expand. The Department for the Economy and the Minister for the Economy have done that work, and we have seen some of the recommendations in the proposals on click and collect. We will see them in the next iteration of restrictions. <BR /> <BR />Ms Ní Chuilín talked about anomalies. I never thought about children getting their feet measured. I have an eight-year-old and a 10-year-old, and, when we were looking at the regulations, we brought forward click and collect for school shoes and school clothes because that made sense. Measuring feet was not part of that, but it is now, and, as I say, the benefit of the discussions in the House is that we can see those anomalies and highlight them.”
“We will do that best by reducing the number of people with COVID who we still have to support. At present, there are just under 400 inpatients with COVID in the hospital system; 322 at the height of the impact and 51 in ICU. That is still more than we have ever had previously. We have 70-odd funded ICU beds across Northern Ireland. We currently support an additional 70 at surge capacity. That takes up an awful lot of capacity in the health service and amongst staff. <BR /> <BR />The Chair of the Committee talked about the hope that the vaccine has brought, but he also said that we must not squander or lose the benefits that it brings. I echo that comment. <BR /> <BR />Pam Cameron, the Deputy Chair, made comments about click and collect and looking at what is now essential or non-essential.”
“Once that has been developed and is published and out there, I am sure that the First Minister and deputy First Minister will bring it to the House for discussion. That will give indications on many of the asks that Members have brought forward, from youth sports to additional click and collect and retail. <BR /> <BR />The Department is also doing a piece of work on what our next rebuilding programme will look like. We took three months during the summer to re-engage lots of vital services. Mr Poots commented on that. Those many dedicated individuals want to get back to what they do best, which are their specialities, in order to support their patient cohort and so that we can re-engage the health service to support the people of Northern Ireland.”
“I think that Ms Ní Chuilín said that there is no accusation that we are holding information back; it is just about understanding what the Committee wants and needs. A large body of evidence is already available on the Department's website about the R paper that we talk about and produce on a weekly basis. As soon as the Executive receive that paper on a Thursday, it is published and up there, ready to go. <BR /> <BR />A number of Members asked about the next steps and our plan to get there. We have all heard both the First Minister and deputy First Minister commit in the House to the publication of that road map on 1 March. That was announced prior to the Prime Minister launching his road map last night.”
“However, let us not, as, I think, Mr Robinson said, snuff out that hope and the light that it brings by running too quickly. Let us bring those benefits to the fore so that they can be embedded and we can see their true potential. <BR /> <BR />I will move on now to Members' contributions. The Committee Chair talked about officials coming forward to discuss these regulations when sometimes the Committee wants to talk about the next set of regulations. That is a challenge. We will work on how we look at the next set of regulations so that the discussions that the Executive will have are not breached while we make sure that we can give the Committee as much information as it needs.”
“We have also seen the threats that were brought about by the attempted introduction of article 16 and how that could have upset our vaccine programme. It did not. <BR /> <BR />I pay tribute to those people who are organising the vaccine programme and dealing with the logistics behind it and the challenges that it brings. As of yesterday, we have started to administer second doses of the vaccine. It is about how we manage the system by bringing forward the cohort of people who are to get their first dose while bringing forward those who are now to get their second dose for the enhanced protection that it will bring. It is also about managing the supply of two different vaccines that need two very different management systems. The vaccine brings hope — real hope.”
“<BR /> <BR />I said to the Member that the answer would be the vaccine, and the Member can now see the benefits that it brings, but we cannot give up now and think that, because people are being vaccinated, the job is done. We have started a very important piece of work, and we must continue it to see the real benefit that it brings. <BR /> <BR />I will say this to the Member about the Republic of Ireland: I will not be held back by its vaccine programme. We are part of the United Kingdom's vaccine programme. We pre-bought seven vaccines. I was criticised in the House for being part of that and was told that it would be a shambolic process. We now see that we took the right decisions at that time.”
“It is not just a matter of getting a needle in your arm and everything being fine; it takes time for those to develop. <BR /> <BR />We have seen the positive outworkings of that in our care home programme, which started in December last year. Under that programme, first visits to all our care homes across Northern Ireland have now been completed, and second visits will soon be completed. We have seen a decrease in numbers. As of 11 January, there were 150 care homes with outbreaks. Today, there are 46. We see the benefit of the vaccine programme, but we also see the time that it takes for those individuals to really produce the benefits. We see the advancements and benefits that the vaccine programme brings.”
“What I do not want to happen is that we stop halfway down the road and sit down and give up on the benefits that the vaccine programme can really bring when we give it time to embed. <BR /> <BR />We have vaccinated just under half a million people with their first dose in a number of weeks, so we have to give those people time to develop the antibodies and resilience to COVID.”
“<BR /> <BR />I think that everyone commented on and praised those working on the vaccine programme and the effect that it will have. It is an honour and a privilege to be Health Minister and to witness the dedication, work and delivery of the vaccine programme across Northern Ireland, with all parts of our health service coming together from GPs to trust set-ups and, hopefully, moving into community pharmacies as well. <BR /> <BR />I always try to balance hope with caution in that, when we have a vaccine programme that, in weeks, has seen large numbers being vaccinated, we do not lose the benefit that it brings. Mr Allister referred to — I think it was just the phraseology that he used — how the vaccine had taken us so far down the road.”
“<BR /> <BR />Many Members suggested individual, worthy relaxations, such as plant nurseries, the opening of shops selling school shoes and clothes shops. What I want to emphasise is that, even though every one of those suggestions has its merits and may have only an incremental effect on virus transmission on its own, if we open up all those activities together, the cumulative effect can be very serious in terms of the number of social interactions and the potential for the virus to spread. The more social contacts an infected person has, the more rapidly the epidemic could take off again and overwhelm us. That is what we saw towards the end of last year and, unfortunately, got us into the situation that we are now in.”
“It is about looking not simply at what has been done but at what we can do and how we should manage and improve the regulations. <BR /> <BR />I think that it was in the first debate that I brought to the House on the regulations that I said that they were "draconian", and Mr Allister gave us a history lesson on who Draco was and his impact. He was right, and I acknowledge the compliment that he paid at the end. <BR /> <BR />I often find myself bringing regulations to the House when they are hard to bring. When we move to the easing and opening-up, I am sure that I will be supported by ministerial colleagues who will take up their responsibilities to support me in bringing in what may be health regulations under the remit of the Health Department but are brought forward by me and my Department on behalf of the Executive.”
“I welcome today's debate on SR18, SR27 and SR29, which are amendment Nos. 2, 3 and 4 of the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021, and I genuinely thank Members for their contributions. <BR /> <BR />I will turn to some of the points that were made during the debate, which extended far beyond the three regulations before you were in the Chair, Mr Deputy Speaker, and despite your efforts to draw it back into line. Even though we are discussing regulations that have been about for a while, I always find that these debates give Members the opportunity to raise their concerns, queries and questions about where the Executive should take their next steps and what guidance and thought processes should be put into place.”
“I say to Members not to be alarmed or to overreact, because the overall assessment from the Public Health Agency and departmental officials is that the wider risk to the community and public health remains low at this time and will remain managed by the experience that we already have. I wanted to update the House on that.”
“It will have absolutely no impact on the vaccination programme. We are looking at studies that show that any variant that has been detected so far has responded in an appropriate way to the vaccines that have been developed. Our test, trace and protect system has worked well; the Member knows that. There has been support from the PHA and the incident-management team, and we have been able to identify these cases through our pillar 1 and pillar 2 sampling. The three new cases are a group that is solely connected and solely managed, and we will take all the support measures necessary for that family. We will make sure that we identify where the cases came from and that the variant does not spread any further.”