Robin Swann
North Antrim · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“I thank the Minister for his detailed statement. I know how passionate he is about the subject and how many times he has brought it to the Executive.”
“It has been reported that today will potentially be the warmest day of the year. As we move into the summer and our summer holidays, I want to raise public awareness of wildfires across Northern Ireland, which have been detrimental to farmland and our environment over the past number of years.”
“Wildfires are still having a detrimental impact on our environment and, occasionally, on livestock, but that reduction shows the impact of the Northern Ireland Fire and Rescue Service's proactive approach to educating the general public and engaging with rural communities and schools on its fire safety message, which is to stay alert, not…”
“There has been a lot of talk of sport in this place over the past few days, with everybody concentrating on UEFA. One sport that is going on across Northern Ireland at the minute is cross-community and goes across all age groups without fear, favour or distinction: pigeon racing.”
“I want to put on record that, since this place passed the amendment that recognised pigeon racing as a sport under the 2016 Act, over the past five years, pigeon racing clubs across Northern Ireland have been able to obtain £113,000 of rates rebates through the sports and recreation rate relief, allowing many of those clubs to continue ra…”
“There was much coverage on social media over the weekend of an incident in Staines in England, in which a police car rammed a young calf to bring it under control. It has restarted the conversation about animal cruelty. <BR /> <BR />I am dealing with a specific case in my constituency.”
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“— so, an area such as a train station or a bus station where there is nobody else present —”
“I just want to clarify at this point rather than wait until my final comments. Although I agree with the Member, and I think that it was her party colleague Pam Cameron who explained how this amendment was broken down into parts, while the part of the amendment (No. 8) regulations that amends the list of reasonable excuses has been superseded and replaced, the other parts of the amendment (No. 8) regulations cover:”
“Doing that will not only help to keep you, your family and others safe, but, in doing that, you will, undoubtedly, help to play your part in keeping our society and economy open, and in reducing the pressures that the health system faces as we move into the time of year when pressures increase on the health service and its workers. <BR /> <BR />I commend these regulations to the Assembly.”
“<BR /> <BR />Whilst there is now much to be positive about, we should remain mindful, however, that the health service and staff who work in it are still under intense strain. I urge continued caution. Each of us must continue to keep our guard up against the transmission of the virus that causes COVID-19. We must all follow the public health advice and the Executive's remaining regulations and advice to help to reduce the risk of transmitting the virus between us, and to allow people to gather more safely in settings that would otherwise be considered high risk. As always, if we are to step out of and away from restrictions, it requires both personal and public responsibility. Again, I take the opportunity to urge everyone to continue to make safer choices and follow the public health advice.”
“<BR /> <BR />As has been the case throughout the pandemic, the Executive were clear that any restrictions would be the subject of regular review by the Executive, and would remain in place only for as long as they were considered to be both necessary and proportionate to risks. Therefore, when the Chief Medical Officer and Chief Scientific Adviser confirmed last week that we were likely to be past the peak in case numbers, although it remained possible that case numbers may rebound somewhat due to the return of schools, it meant that we could look immediately to see which restrictions could be lifted. I believe that the decisions that were taken by the Executive were significant, measured and sent a strong public signal that we were on a clear trajectory out of the omicron wave.”
“They also removed the requirement to wear a face covering when in a transport service premises where the area is outdoors, and made a minor amendment to the requirement to wear a face covering on a ferry. <BR /> <BR />Members will be aware that, on 20 January, the Executive decided that the requirement to provide proof of exemption from wearing a face covering would be removed, and that the reasonable excuse of "severe distress" was to be reintroduced to regulations. Therefore, while that provision of the statutory duty may no longer be required, the remaining provisions remain necessary and require passage through the House.”
“It placed legal responsibility on retail premises to ensure that all reasonable measures were in place to reduce transmission and included the requirement for office premises to put reasonable measures in place to comply with social distancing, as well as prohibiting dancing indoors in hospitality venues and prohibiting nightclubs from opening. <BR /> <BR />The third amendment is amendment No. 8, which made changes to the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings) Regulations by amending the list of reasonable excuses for not wearing a face covering by removing "severe distress", placing the onus on an individual to prove their exemption, and placing a statutory duty on businesses to promote compliance with face covering regulations by ensuring that all reasonable measures were in place.”
“It introduced a requirement to be seated in hospitality premises unless entering or exiting the premises; accessing a table; making a payment; placing an order for food or drink, in the case of unlicensed hospitality only; accessing a buffet or carvery; accessing or using toilet, baby-changing or breastfeeding facilities, or a smoking area; or dancing at an event to celebrate a wedding or civil partnership. There could be no more than six persons at a table in a licensed or unlicensed hospitality premises when they were from more than one household, or 10 when they were from one household.”
“The original intention in drafting included a long sentence that had been interpreted in a number of different ways by some stakeholders so further minor changes have been made to the wording to clarify who is responsible for a relevant premises or event when the premises owner may not be involved in the event that is being held there, and the requirement to have a system to verify certification is in place for all those who enter the premises or event. <BR /> <BR />The second amendment is No. 21, which was made on 23 December. Regulations 7(a), 9, 14 and 18 came into operation on 26 December, and the remainder came into operation on 27 December. That amendment made the following changes.”
“20 made a number of changes to the regulations regarding COVID status certification, largely as a result of engagement with stakeholders that took place during the two-week grace period prior to the formal introduction of the certification. Those changes involved removing the definition of "active period"; changes in the required time frame for a negative rapid antigen test from 48 hours to the same calendar day as, or calendar day before, the relevant time; removing the requirement to provide photographic ID if the evidence provided included a photo; and rewording regulation 16E to ensure greater clarity on the original intention.”
“<BR /> <BR />As Members will be aware, the Executive met again last week and agreed that, following a significantly improved outlook, we were, thankfully, in a position to relax many of the restrictions. However, on 22 December, there were considerable uncertainties about the impact of the new variant, not least on hospital pressures. We knew from the evidence available that the infection rate here was going to rise sharply in the days and weeks that lay ahead. The Executive agreed that, in light of the potentially serious scenarios that were developing at that time, intervention was required, alongside the vital booster vaccine programme. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No.”
“Today, Members are considering three statutory rules that implemented the decisions of the Executive that were taken on 22 December 2021 to limit the spread of the COVID-19 omicron variant. SR 2021/334, the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021 (Amendment No. 20) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021, was made on 9 December; SR 2021/349, the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021 (Amendment No. 21) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021, was made on 23 December; and SR 2021/348, the Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings) (Amendment) (No. 8) Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2021, was made on 23 December.”
“I ask those who seek division over this issue to look at what we can achieve when we pull together, rather than look for further division, and tackle COVID as a united society in Northern Ireland, doing everything that we can and that we know works. I recommend these regulations to the Assembly.”
“I did not hear the comments from my colleague the Minister of Agriculture, who was also a former Health Minister, but I know that he takes his role and the comments that he makes as seriously as I take mine. <BR /> <BR />I thank Members for their contributions. It is not an easy subject. With regard to COVID regulations, nothing is, but COVID is not easy. The challenges faced by the population and our health service in combating a global pandemic is not easy either. <BR /> <BR />We have come through worse, and Mr Catney alluded to that in his contribution yesterday. We will come through this. We will see it through. We will come through it with a stronger health service because of the changes that we have needed to evolve to meet the needs of the people of Northern Ireland. I hope that we also come through it stronger as a society.”
“Human rights impacts were considered separately from the equality screening, and the full human rights impact assessment has also been completed and is available on the Department's website. Comments were invited from the Human Rights Commission as well. <BR /> <BR />In response to the queries that were raised yesterday, in general and by individual Members, I thank Members for the respectful nature of the debate. It should be the tone and tenor in which this place debates all issues, not just COVID regulations. I thank Members for that. We need to come out of this with communication from this place that we take these steps — sometimes reluctantly, and sometimes we may be opposed to them — but they are taken for the overall protection of the people of Northern Ireland and in support of our health service in challenging times.”
“Again, that is a crucial point around how the debate on these regulations is portrayed and also the commentary yesterday. This is not a vaccine passport. This is about COVID certification. That is why the Department of Health, supported by the Executive, purposely put those other measures in place. Some want to portray this as vaccine certification because it suits another agenda. That is the agenda of the anti-vaxxers, who see this as an avenue to raise other concerns about what this is and what it will lead to. I assure you that that is not what this is about. The overall benefit of the proposal to the population as a whole is about reducing the spread of COVID-19 and the pressures on our health and social care system. That outweighs any negative impacts of those challenges.”
“The screening detailed that no full EQIA was required, as the purpose of the regulations is to control the risk of the spread of the infection that causes COVID-19 in Northern Ireland, thus protecting and benefiting all section 75 categories. <BR /> <BR />The cohorts who are unable or do not wish to be vaccinated have other options. They can provide a negative lateral flow device (LFD) test or proof of recovery from COVID. For the small number of people with a disability or another medical condition that prevents both vaccination and regular use of LFD tests, the ability to show evidence of a medical exemption from vaccination will fully cover them.”
“The debate lies solely there. The regulations are not being used as some sort of lever to do something else, because that is not in there. The Member will have read the regulations in totality, and he knows what they contain. That is what we are debating today. <BR /> <BR />Mr Carroll asked why a full equality impact assessment (EQIA) was not carried out. The equality screening for the provisions was completed by departmental officials in collaboration with the equality and human rights unit in the Executive Office using the standard Equality Commission process. The Equality Commission engaged with officials and provided guidance and comments throughout the process. The screening information was published on the Department's website and is publicly available.”
“At that point, we make the call on what can be reduced and where. There is no magic trigger point. It is always about taking a collective decision about what is fit and appropriate at the time. Sometimes the conversation is challenging, but we take the decisions collectively as an Executive, and we then try to come out and portray them collectively as well. It is, however, not just about the collective response but about the collective responsibility. <BR /> <BR />Ms Sugden picked up on a point that Mr Allister made. I understand and hear the concerns and frustrations, and we can see the debate playing out across the water. It is not about the regulations that are in front of us but about what comes next. What do the regulations open the door to? The regulations do not move us in any direction apart from that of COVID certification.”
“The processes that Mr Weir said we need to challenge and that I said we need to challenge are still there. Hopefully, in the new year, we will not need to use those procedures as often as we have done. <BR /> <BR />The challenge is always this: where is the benchmark? Where is the line? That is what Mr Allister has often challenged. When I say that there is no one magic target, that is always taken and portrayed in a certain way. It is about how we look at the basket of current measures in place. The Member said it himself: it is about how we reduce the R rate, hospitalisations, the infection rate and the number of people going into intensive care units. That is what the Executive do. They take the guidance and the modelling from our Chief Scientific Adviser and look at how the current basket of measures in place is achieving its aims.”
“Miss Woods asked about engagement with other organisations. We have engaged extensively with the Commissioner for Older People for Northern Ireland (COPNI) on the issue that Ms Woods raised about the challenges that her granny faces. We all have family members who are in the same place. It is about how we utilise the phone number available to support those who need help to obtain the paper certification. <BR /> <BR />Miss Woods said that she missed the weekly press conferences. I miss them too. I also miss when other Ministers actually did them. <BR /> <BR />Mr Allister asked about the retrospective nature of the regulations, and I answered that question earlier. I would have liked the regulations to have been expedited and debated last week rather than this week.”
“A vote will be taken, if it is indeed necessary to divide. Hopefully, after today, that engagement will take place, and communication with the wider public will be easier to produce and get out there.”
“When there is a difference of opinion and division on some of the messaging that we need to put out, it becomes challenging for officials. They are left to organise the collective message that needs to go out, even when some are still divided on that message.”
“To people listening who may share the Member's concerns, I say this: the Pfizer, Moderna and AstraZeneca vaccines that are provided in Northern Ireland do not contain fetal cells. We need to be clear that that is certainly not the case, because some anti-abortion campaigners are refusing to take those vaccines. I want to put that on record, as Mr Wells raised his concerns yesterday. It is not in my gift or that of my Department to regulate a vaccine that has not been regulated by the MHRA, the body that is there to do that on behalf of the United Kingdom. <BR /> <BR />Ms Woods asked for clarification on the regulations. I have admitted many times that communication about what we need to do is better when we all say the same thing at the same time.”
“<BR /> <BR />Mr Wells spoke about the sunset clause. I will correct myself: the date that I provided yesterday was wrong. I can clarify that, and I did so in my response to Mr Frew. In a further contribution, Mr Wells said that he was not anti-vaccine but had concerns about the three available vaccines. I know that he is not in the Chamber and that he will meet officials from my Department later in the week to discuss other vaccines. I will put it on record in this place and for those who are here that, while the vaccines that the Member mentioned may be available, they are not regulated by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), which is the governing authority from which I take my advice about what can be used and what we actually use in Northern Ireland.”
“<BR /> <BR />Mr Catney's contribution was based on his work in the hospitality sector. It was a poignant reflection on where we have come from, where we are and where we can still go. There is still benefit to be had in this place when we come together and work together, even through challenging times. Not only has there been COVID but the regulations, such as those that we are debating today, have presented challenges to us and may cause difference and division. That, however, should not cause us to lose sight of the opportunity to be gained by taking some of those steps. In closing, Mr Catney said that he could not sit idly by: I cannot sit idly by either. I do not have that luxury when it comes to what needs to be done to bring forward regulations or recommendations to my Executive colleagues. I will continue to do that.”
“All that additional work is going on behind the scenes. As soon as I am able to update Members on the next steps, I will do so. <BR /> <BR />Mr Weir talked about the workforce challenges, including investment. The Member will be aware — I have said it many times — that, when we came back in January 2020, it was about investment and increasing the number of nursing training places. If that investment had been made in the workforce three or four years earlier, we could have been, as we should have been, in a very different place from where we are now. <BR /> <BR />I announced that we would invest £23 million in social care and domiciliary care packages between now and the end of this financial year. That is not only to increase provision but to support workers in that sector by passing on what, we think, should be a decent wage.”
“Whereas other areas of the United Kingdom are only now moving to provide booster doses in care homes — I think that the phrase that they use is that they are doing that so that "no one is left behind" — we started where we started last time. It is a more challenging and time-consuming environment, but it was and is the right thing to do. <BR /> <BR />Members will be aware that, now that the booster programme is escalating, there are queues of people who are prepared to wait outside walk-in clinics. It is heartening for me to see that. I would like to see them moving through the system more quickly and not having to wait as long. Work is being done at trust level, with GPs and with Community Pharmacy on what is necessary to accelerate that process. Last night, some centres stayed open until 10.00 pm.”
“I will carry out my duties as Health Minister regarding these regulations, other regulations and the things that are necessary at any point in time not only to further enhance the protections of the people of Northern Ireland but to support our health service. <BR /> <BR />Mr Weir, in his usual way, also raised the importance of our booster programme, what needs to be done, what could be done and the expansion of that. The Member will be aware that we have stepped up significantly, as have other parts of the United Kingdom. When you compare Northern Ireland with other areas, the insinuation has been that we were slow to start. The fact is that we started, as we did at this time last year, with those who were most vulnerable. We started in our care homes.”
“That was not so, and nor was it the case that you, Mr Speaker, cut the debate last night as some clever ploy. It is about the processes of this place, and that needs to be looked at. <BR /> <BR />When it comes to COVID regulations and the challenges that they present, I find myself standing here bringing them forward on behalf of an Executive. I referred yesterday to the dramatic steps that we had to take this time last year just before Christmas when we talked about what would be necessary after Boxing Day. I remember the First Minister coming into the Chamber, supported by the deputy First Minister, me and other Ministers, to show the seriousness of where we were, the storm that was coming at that point and the collective steps that we needed to take and could take to address the wave that was in front of us at that point in time.”
“It is not only for his protection but for the protection of others. There is an assumption that others will do the same. That is what we would like to see. <BR /> <BR />At times such as yesterday's debate, I miss Mr Weir's rational approach to problems and regulations in other arenas. That is as diplomatic as I can be. There is a level of assessment of what is in front of us, what is necessary and why we are doing it. Mr Weir highlighted the fact that it was the process and the systems that caused the timing of the regulations to be brought forward. It is not what has been insinuated by others, which is that the timing of the debate was some great Machiavellian ploy that I had dispatched so that they would be enacted before we got here to debate them.”
“The information from our Chief Scientific Adviser (CSA) and our Chief Medical Officer (CMO) is that it will reduce virus transmission, primarily by reducing the likelihood of infectious individuals entering high-risk settings; reduce the risk of serious illness and death and, in doing so, alleviate current and future pressures on our healthcare system; and increase the likelihood that higher-risk settings can continue to operate as an alternative to closure or more restrictive measures. In any communication and any messaging, that is the point that needs to come across. That is one of the main drivers behind this set of regulations. <BR /> <BR />Some of the strongest messages in debates in this place come from a personal perspective, and I thank Mr Dickson for his point yesterday about why he wears a mask and why he took the vaccine.”
“Time-limited exemptions will also be available for those who have a short-term medical condition or are undergoing certain treatments. <BR /> <BR />Mr McGrath made an intervention and raised some points around what evidence was available and what evidence had been published. The Member has returned to the Health Committee and has been fully briefed on what is available. He was able to list that before I came here today and said that it was public, and I thank the Member for carrying that out and for acknowledging the benefits that the scheme will have.”
“Some of the limited exemptions are for those who are receiving end-of-life or palliative care, where vaccination is not in the person's best interests; people with a learning disability or autistic people who cannot be vaccinated with reasonable adjustments; people with a medical contradiction to all current vaccines, such as a severe allergy; and those who had serious adverse reactions to their first dose.”
“I do not have the exact dates, but the data protection has been on the COVID certificate app since it was launched. It had to be there before the app was launched, because that is the process that we go through. There is continued information and engagement with the Information Commissioner's office, should there be any challenges, queries or questions about what more could be done. I will get the Member the exact date that that was published so that he has that clarity, because it is a query that has been raised by certain "activists", for want of a better word. <BR /> <BR />As the Member highlighted, the possible reasons for exemptions are limited. We work across all four nations.”
“Is that in regard to the scientific evidence?”
“The Member did not take any interventions at all yesterday, but I will.”
“That evidence can be submitted through the Northern Ireland COVID certificate process. People can get the relevant documentation and assistance by phoning the helpline, which is 0300 200 7814; they can start the process and receive the certificate in that way. <BR /> <BR />Mr Frew asked whether an exemption certificate will differ from a standard certificate. The answer is no. He also asked whether an appeal mechanism is in place if exemption is not granted. I confirm that an appeal can be made on any decision. He also asked about who has access to, and who manages, the data. That is covered under the data protection impact assessment (DPIA) process. The scheme is managed by the Public Health Agency, as the main controller, with input from care providers. All relevant and normal data protection controls are in place.”
“Jim Wells said that he was the only Member to raise the issue of a sunset clause, but Paul was the first Member to raise and ask about it. I think that I told Mr Wells that the regulations are due for renewal and extension on 23 March 2022, but it is actually 24 March 2022, so I will ask for the record to be corrected. <BR /> <BR />A number of exemptions were talked about. We are moving to Mr Frew's queries and comments on which exemptions are placed on the role of GPs. Although the majority of exemptions will be signed off by secondary care, GPs have agreed to do a small number, such as for patients who are receiving palliative care, which the Member mentioned. The exemption process has been finalised, and it has been available for applications since 10 December.”
“I made clear the engagement that we have had, through the Executive's COVID task force, with the PSNI, the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives (SOLACE) and other local organisations. We have had meetings and engagements with the police, and, according to yesterday's debate, our most recent one was on 10 December. I think that one was meant to be held yesterday under the auspices of the Executive's COVID task force. <BR /> <BR />Rachel Woods asked whether licensed takeaways were covered by the certification scheme. To clarify, the regulations apply only to those businesses where consumption takes place on the premises rather than takeaways. <BR /> <BR />Turning to Mr Frew's commentary, I would like to note something that he said.”
“Ms Bradshaw talked about rights and responsibilities and reducing the risk. It has always been a challenge, across the Executive, to find the balance of doing what needs to be done when it needs to be done. That was the crux and the building block of the autumn and winter plan, which was supported by the entire Executive, without division. I agree with her: communications are important. As we enter the next number of weeks and months, we need to get to a place where we are speaking on the same point and singing from the same hymn sheet on where COVID may take us. <BR /> <BR />Mr Stalford raised the issue of enforcement, asking what could be done and who was going to do it.”
“<BR /> <BR />We know what actions work, and we need to continue to look at what more can be done about the advancing threat. That was the point of the Executive's autumn/winter plan, which set out a number of steps that will be considered at the point at which it is necessary to consider them. In that plan, it says that that point will be when infection numbers are rising in Northern Ireland or there are additional pressures on our hospitals. We have seen those numbers starting to rise, and, because of the omicron variant, we expect them to rise further in the weeks ahead. The First Minister talked about the storm that is coming. You are better preparing for a storm when it is not raining, rather than waiting until you are up to your knees in water. That is what these regulations, as part of a wider package, are intended to do.”
“That led very well into Mr Chambers and Mr Beattie's contributions about there often being a perception, when we come into the Chamber or when some Members appear in the media, that COVID is unique solely to Northern Ireland and that our response is somehow unique or that it can be different, because we are different. This virus, the omicron variant and the challenges that we currently face do not respect borders, nationalities, political parties, policy or ideological positions. This virus does not care and will not care about what actions we take or what beliefs we have. It does, however, have to take note of the actions and steps that we put in place to break the chains of transmission that have existed in the past.”
“<BR /> <BR />A number of Members raised the issue that these regulations could cause vaccine hesitancy or people to not come forward. We have seen a 3·3% increase in people of the eligible ages coming forward for vaccination since the start of last month. The secondary, knock-on effect of these regulations was that we eventually got to the target that was set for 90% of our adult population to come forward to accept and take on the vaccine. <BR /> <BR />Nichola Mallon's contribution acknowledged that these regulations are necessary because this is an extraordinary response to an extraordinary situation.”
“My Department and I have tried as best we can to support the Committee. I recognise that there are challenges, and I thank him for the scrutiny of these regulations that his Committee carried out in two sittings. <BR /> <BR />I move to the Deputy Chair's comments. I thank the Deputy Chair and her colleagues on the Health Committee for the support that they have given and for the past tough decisions. I recognise that it is the democratic right of parties or individuals to oppose something. I thank the two DUP members of the Health Committee for providing challenge to the need for these regulations. I also ask that they help to communicate the regulations, if it is the will of the House that these regulations proceed, and the reasons why they are in place.”
“I thank those Members and the members of the Executive for not taking that step at that time or even taking the steps that were set out in the challenges that were put out over the weekend about a petition of concern being brought about to nullify the debate or to move the vote. There are Members who say that they will continue to fight against these regulations. We will take that as it comes, following the democratic decision of the Assembly today. <BR /> <BR />I will talk about comments from a number of Members and about the queries that they raised. The Chair of the Committee compared the process by which these regulations have been assessed with that by which others have been assessed and noted the different set of circumstances around them. That has always been a challenge for his Committee.”
“I note the Member's political comments around this. I hope — I ask — that, coming out of this debate today, there is not a Division. Members have demonstrated their opposition. People vocally demonstrated their opposition to the regulations. They demonstrated that at the Executive. There was no Division at the Health Committee. Oppositions to the regulations were raised, but it was not felt to be necessary to put them to the vote at Committee Stage. I ask for there to be no Division, but I do not expect that, because I know that there are Members who want the House to divide. That goes back to Ms Sugden's closing commentary yesterday about the theatrics that we are now in. Parties express where they are with their opposition. There were opportunities for interventions to the debate on the regulations that were not taken.”
“There were also a number of engagement events with the PSNI, prior to the regulations being brought in, on the enforcement mechanism required.”
“<BR /> <BR />I will turn to general comments, queries and questions that were raised by Members yesterday. With regard to stakeholder engagement around what these are actually going to be and how they could be, there was a concern that the stakeholders had not had an opportunity to engage with and look at the draft regulations. That is because they were still being drafted; engagement about what they could and should mean was still happening. Engagement events were facilitated by the Executive COVID task force and attended by Executive Office officials and my officials. They took place with the hospitality, retail and events sectors on 22 November, 26 November, 2 December, 9 December and, I am led to believe, yesterday.”
“In future iterations of this place, we need to look at how it might be streamlined and done better. It is not a situation that, standing here, I am comfortable defending or being part of. <BR /> <BR />We can look at it in another respect. This is something that Mr Allister said; he has often challenged the retrospective nature of these regulations. If, however, we had not debated the regulations yesterday, as we did at my request and with the support of the Speaker and the Health Committee, in all likelihood — because we go into Christmas recess after today and do not return until 17 January — we could have been going to debate them at that point. The Executive might already have made their decision by then and said that we no longer need them. Let us look at the benefits that we have had from the process.”