Stewart Dickson
East Antrim · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Thank you, Minister, for your answer. Minister, you will have noted that the Government recently announced a VAT cut for some family expenses for a range of activities over the summer. That is perhaps a change.”
“Many do not know how to apply; others do not even realise that the opportunities exist. If the process itself is a barrier to participation, it is really not open to all.”
“I was born in 1950 in Thorndale House, which was one of the homes that is named in the legislation. I was born to married parents, and Thorndale House was a maternity home. It was where you went to have your baby in 1950 on the Antrim Road. My mum and dad went there, I was born and, a few days later, I left with loving parents.”
“I agree with Mr Brett: amendment No 6 is important because it will deal with persons who refuse to provide information or evidence to the inquiry. Amendment No 8 to clause 20 is a tidying-up amendment that will allow the Committee to make interim reports, which will be of benefit to the inquiry process.”
“That is why I want the inquiry to succeed and why it is vital that it succeeds. That is why it is important for us to see that cruelty in the full glare of a public inquiry. That is why it is important that the scheme goes through without further delay. <BR /> <BR />Finally, I place on record my thanks to the Committee Chair.”
“The Assembly faces stark choices, and agreeing the draft Budget as it stands is not a silver bullet, nor is it sustainable for us to continue in the absence of a Budget. It is vital, therefore, that we break the cycle of crisis and collapse that has been destroying our public finances.”
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“Pivotal steps towards systemic improvement are being made. We are just at the beginning, however. The scope of the challenge demands not only continued but expanded efforts to ensure that all individuals in the justice system who struggle with communication receive the support that they need. Let us therefore be clear about who delivers that in the justice system: it is the Department of Health. It bears the statutory responsibility for the provision of speech and language therapy services and for prioritising and ensuring the allocation of adequate funding and resources. That is not merely an investment in the rehabilitation of individuals but an investment in the safety and well-being of our communities.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Royal College of Speech and Language Therapists has emphasised the profound implications that communication difficulties can have on an individual's mental health. Without timely and effective intervention, the cycle only worsens, adversely influencing behaviour and drastically limiting the opportunities for positive engagement in society. That underscores the necessity for early intervention, outside and long before anyone interacts with the justice system, as part of a broader cross-departmental strategy that, undoubtedly, could mitigate offending and reoffending rates. <BR /> <BR />In Northern Ireland, under the leadership of my colleague the Justice Minister, Naomi Long, and in conjunction with the Department of Health, the integration of speech and language therapists into our justice system has already begun.”
“<BR /> <BR />As other Members have indicated, research has consistently shown the prevalence of those challenges in our judicial system, with over 60% of young offenders and 80% of adult inmates affected by speech, language and communication needs. That contrasts starkly with percentages in the general population, highlighting severe disparity and underscoring deeply rooted systemic failures. Let me be clear: people do not arrive in the criminal justice system and develop those issues. Once they are involved in the system, however, such issues can significantly hinder their rehabilitation, thereby fuelling a cycle of crime. That not only devastates the individual caught in that cycle but has far-reaching consequences for communities and society at large.”
“When individuals, particularly young people, find themselves entangled in the criminal justice system, caught up in a cycle of offending and reoffending, it is driven by a broad spectrum of underlying issues, such as poverty, substance abuse, homelessness, mental health problems and communication problems. A lack of early opportunity from the start of life makes the factors that contribute to criminal behaviour both widespread and deeply ingrained. In addressing those issues, however, we should not overlook the critical aspect that often remains hidden or invisible: the additional needs associated with speech, language and communication challenges. That area is under-assessed and can easily go unnoticed until an individual comes up against the need to use a particular system.”
“<BR /> <BR />Let us remind ourselves that our discussions today are focused on the current 2023-24 Budget, but I look forward to seeing many of the issues that I have raised this evening being tackled through the scrutiny of the Justice Committee and being dealt with by the Minister of Finance when it comes to the future Budget and the negotiations that she will have with the Treasury and others, and around the Executive table. Certainly, this evening, I am heartened by a lot of the comments that I have heard in the Chamber about how parties are willing to work together to deliver better Budgets, better finance and better resources for all the citizens of Northern Ireland.”
“Unfortunately, there is such a high turnover that the whole purpose of the programme of getting to know their communities, getting to know the nooks and crannies where young people hang out and getting to know all the key players in the community is lost because they are moved on to other duties so quickly. <BR /> <BR />As we look ahead, it is imperative that the Budget Bill represents more than a stopgap financial solution for the relatively small levels of investment. The Department of Justice can deliver a stable and effective justice system if the Assembly, going forward, and in the Budget to follow this Budget, provides sufficient funds to do that. We can provide a safe and fair community for everyone, across all the systems of justice, if we just have the resources to do it.”
“That reduction not only hampers the PSNI's ability to meet its operational needs but means that the New Decade, New Approach commitment to increasing police numbers to 7,500 is an unfunded pledge and has now become unobtainable. Currently, the number of police officers is expected to peak at 6,358, which is a shortfall that will undeniably compromise policing effectiveness. That is something that we see in the community day and daily. I meet community officers regularly in my constituency office, and I see them when I am out and about in the constituency.”
“A budget to deliver change will deliver hope and better prospects for the whole of the justice family. <BR /> <BR />Legal aid, which is a fundamental and yet underfunded component of access to justice, remains inadequate and inadequately supported. Despite its demand-driven nature, it has consistently been underfunded, leading to delays that affect not only the legal profession but the very essence of the delivery of justice. All areas, including probation, juvenile justice, the courts and tribunals, and victims, are suffering as a result of the constraints on the Justice Department's budget. <BR /> <BR />As has been mentioned, a critical area of concern is the budgetary reduction for the PSNI.”
“In 2022, our Justice Minister, Naomi Long, approved an increase in operational staff levels by 56, from 1112 to 1168 — a move reflected in the 2023-24 Budget. However, the surge in the prison population, driven by complex factors like extended remand periods due to judicial delays and pandemic-induced backlogs, poses a threat to the stability of the prison environment. As has been said, we predict a higher growth in the number of prisoners entering the prisons. <BR /> <BR />The success of rehabilitation and resettlement programmes is seriously in jeopardy if we cannot get a grip on the situation. Those programmes are vital for public safety, and this is an area of significant concern that I hope we in the Justice Committee will be able to investigate in greater detail.”
“Those facilities are still standing and are being used, but they are far from adequate. I cannot emphasise enough how impressed I was on my visit to that prison by the work that is being done there. It is vital that we secure sufficient funding to deliver not only the work that is going on but the plans that it has for the future. <BR /> <BR />The situation significantly hampers the Minister's ability to implement effective rehabilitation strategies and subsequently reduce offending and reoffending rates, and that is what this is all about. When people are housed two to a cell in those conditions, that undoubtedly limits their rehabilitation opportunities and hinders successful reintegration into the community.”
“<BR /> <BR />I recently joined the Chair of the Justice Committee on her visit to Magilligan prison and saw at first hand the challenges of working in what is effectively a World War II airbase, with Nissen huts that have not changed in any shape or form from the day and hour that they were built. However, the services that are delivered across that prison, by staff who are dedicated and governors who really want to make a difference, are absolutely amazing. We met and spoke with prisoners who were impressed by the way in which they were being looked after and cared for in that environment. <BR /> <BR />Since January 2021, the prison population has surged by over 30%, leading to the necessity of doubling up prisoners in cells and the reopening of facilities that, quite frankly, should have been demolished.”
“<BR /> <BR />Over the years, a cost recovery model has operated successfully and delivered significant reforms, despite the noose around the neck of the Department of Justice's budget. However, it is clear that we have reached the point where potential savings would automatically raise costs in other areas. One of the best examples of that is the introduction of GPS tagging as opposed to the current method of tagging. That would help us with the prison population and with remand prisoners; it would do all of that. It is technology rich and expensive to deliver, but the reality is that, if it keeps people out of prison cells, it is a cost saving to us. However, the Department does not have the budget to deliver it.”
“As many Members said about the whole budgetary situation in the Assembly, the Department of Justice has been further hampered by single-year budgets. A clear message is going out this evening about how we budget in the future: single-year budgets are clearly not the answer. <BR /> <BR />The stark realities that we face in the 2023-24 Budget mean that the Department of Justice's opening pressures amounted to some £149 million, driven by escalating demands on policing, legal aid, prisons and youth justice, pay pressures and inflation across the justice sector. It is crucial to understand that the vast majority of the Department of Justice's budget is truly inescapable. Staff costs and statutory commitments consume nearly all the available resources, leaving less than 1% for discretionary spending.”
“May I take the opportunity to congratulate you for the first time, Mr Deputy Speaker, in your new role? I also congratulate the Minister on her appointment. I worked with her in the Economy Committee during the previous mandate, and I have a great deal of respect for the work that she did and the way in which she chaired that Committee. She will bring her depth of understanding to the new role. <BR /> <BR />I will speak as the justice spokesperson for the Alliance Party on how the Budget will affect the Department of Justice. As the Committee Chair pointed out, since devolution, the Department has been chronically underfunded relative to other Departments, as recognised by the Fiscal Council.”
“Thank you, Minister, and congratulations on your appointment. Will the Minister outline to the House what progress he believes has been made on delivering a Northern Ireland food strategy?”
“As others have said, I am sure that we will have an opportunity to pay tribute to him. My memories of him go back as far as the Forum for Peace and Reconciliation: he was very actively involved in the very early stages of our peace process.”
“It is vital that our health service is ready, willing and able to support patients like me and others who have those particular cancers. I place on record my thanks to the cancer centre at Belfast City Hospital, the nurse specialists who looked after me, my oncologist and my surgeon, all of whom did an amazing job for me and do an amazing job for the many patients like me who face the diagnosis of oesophageal cancer. <BR /> <BR />I have immense admiration for His Majesty The King and the way in which he has publicly come forward at this very early stage to make people aware of what is happening to him and the difficulties that his family will face. I also place on record my particular sympathies to the family of John Bruton, the former Taoiseach, who, sadly, died this morning.”
“I thank my colleague Sorcha Eastwood for the very brave and open way in which she has dealt with her husband, Dale's, diagnosis of cancer. I add my best wishes to those of the House to His Majesty The King and the royal family as they face this particularly difficult time. I know only too personally, as a survivor of one of the eight least survivable cancers in the world — oesophageal — what it is to face that diagnosis, to have to share it with family and friends, and then, as I have a small insight into public life, to stand up to let people know and share my story, without knowing what the end of it was to be, with Mark Devenport and the BBC, and subsequently with the 'Belfast Telegraph'. That was four years ago. Oesophageal cancer is one of the least survivable cancers. It must be caught early.”
“Perhaps we won a few more political fights than he did, but we will leave that to the history books and the writers to decide. One thing that we can be sure about is that history will remember him as a fair and impartial Speaker who steered the Chamber through many difficult and momentous occasions. <BR /> <BR />The Alliance Party is happy to support all of the nominations that have been made today for the position of Speaker, as we have done through all of the recalls that the Assembly has had.”
“From handling official condolences to meeting the new King and Queen at Hillsborough, it was clear that Alex Maskey was prepared to represent the office of Speaker with impartiality and integrity. <BR /> <BR />Many of our young citizens across Northern Ireland will remember him fondly for different reasons. Left with no MLAs to fill this Building, he seized the opportunity to use this space to develop the Northern Ireland Youth Assembly and the Disability Assembly, providing an opportunity for voices not often heard in the Chamber. On behalf of the Alliance Party, I wish him a very happy retirement, although, if he misses sparring in the Chamber too much, perhaps he could return to his boxing roots. In the 75 fights that he competed in, he lost, I believe, only four.”
“Today marks a new chapter for the Assembly, but it is also the end of an era, as Alex Maskey finally gets to retire after 26 years in the Assembly and four years as Speaker. During that time, he has shown leadership in extending the hand of friendship to those from different backgrounds. As has been said, he was the first Sinn Féin councillor in Belfast since the 1920s. He went on to become the first Sinn Féin Lord Mayor, which indeed created headlines, but the act of choosing the opening of the Presbyterian general assembly as his first public duty marked him as someone different. Laying a wreath for remembrance is seen now as a normal act, but for a member of Sinn Féin to do so in 2002 was a big event, as were his dealings with the royal family following the passing of the late Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II.”
“On a point of order, Mr Acting Speaker. A previous point of order was made about the general tenor of the debate in the Chamber, but I want to make a specific point of order request. One of the Speaker's very clear rulings is that Members should not engage from a sedentary position. A Member on this side of the House has done that consistently in an argument with the Member who had the Floor and the right to speak. I expect a Speaker's ruling about Members involving themselves in a debate from a sedentary position.”
“People will be freezing in Northern Ireland because of the former Minister's actions.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Will she agree with me that we have just heard a speech from the former caretaker Minister in which he was effectively defending the indefensible? The reality is that he made promises not to this House, which he should have done, but to the citizens of Northern Ireland about payments for fuel that he and his party are blocking. The DUP has completely and utterly failed to deliver the urgently needed money for fuel costs to citizens across Northern Ireland.”
“Will the Member draw his remarks to a close?”
“Quite simply, my question is this: what action will the Minister take now to meet P&O to discuss the issues?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. I very much welcome his informing the House that we will look to strengthen employment law in Northern Ireland in the next mandate, particularly around the issue of fire and rehire. Minister, the reality is, however, that you and your party participated in wasting years, during which that type of legislation could have been introduced in this mandate. We are now left without the strength and protection that could and should be provided.”
“Like the Minister, I pay tribute to the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association in the Assembly for planting a tree today to mark Her Majesty's platinum jubilee. Does the Minister — this is probably apposite as he is also the Agriculture Minister — have any plans to provide trees to any school in Northern Ireland that wishes to plant one to mark this year?”
“Welcome though that scheme might have been, it was totally useless in targeting the actual needs of people in Northern Ireland. I know people in my constituency who spent their £100 on topping up their electricity and gas. It is now long since gone. There is an urgent need to tackle that problem. I encourage the Assembly to start to think about creative ways in which we can achieve that.”
“Certain issues need to be raised in Westminster. There needs to be a windfall tax against those who have made large profits, particularly in the fuel industries, and for that money to be redistributed. It is shameful that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is borrowing our money in order to pay us money and that we will have to pay it all back. <BR /> <BR />We need to look to imaginative schemes that will deliver for people in Northern Ireland. It is vital that no child in Northern Ireland goes to school hungry or cold, as Mr O'Dowd mentioned. That can be resolved by making payments available immediately to those families who are in most need. Unlike the high street scheme, for example, which gave everyone £100, it needs to be targeted.”
“Much has been made of the £300 million that seems to be sloshing around in budgets here. Let us not forget that that £300 million will not pay the fuel bills of the people of Northern Ireland. It may make a small contribution to those bills, but it is also there to bail out Departments, which will be struggling to complete their budgets in this financial year and the next. <BR /> <BR />It is vital that the Assembly rolls out appropriate and targeted schemes. The last thing that we need is another renewable heat incentive (RHI)-type scandal when it comes to legislation in Northern Ireland. That is why we should use and expand existing schemes. Given the number of homes in Northern Ireland that use home heating oil, we must bring it under the control of the regulator in order to allow prices to be regulated.”
“I thank the Member for tabling this Matter of the Day for debate. It is vital that we discuss the current crisis. <BR /> <BR />Nobody in the Chamber needs £200 to help them to pay their electricity or gas bill. That is the reality. Any money that the Assembly can distribute — it should distribute it — has to go to the people in Northern Ireland who are in the most need. Not everyone in Northern Ireland is in need; we need to recognise that. Schemes that come forward need to be targeted completely at those who are in need.”
“From the Alliance Party's perspective and having had a brief conversation with the Bill's sponsor, I understand that she is content with the amendments, I thank the Minister for what is appropriate tidying-up of the legislation. I look forward, hopefully in the next mandate, to seeing the legislation come to fruition, being delivered and protecting people in some of the most vulnerable of circumstances.”
“It will be difficult for employees to speak to their employers about it — I have absolutely no doubt about that — but we need to create a safe space for that conversation to take place and provide safe space for employees in those circumstances to have paid time off in the sure and certain knowledge that they are secure in their employment while dealing with some of the most traumatic and difficult of circumstances. I hope that the legislation and the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act (Northern Ireland) 2021 brought forward by my colleague the Justice Minister Naomi Long will encourage those affected to talk about what is happening and to reach out. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Minister for the amendments that he has tabled.”
“I certainly hope that, when the Department brings forward guidance with regard to this, it will emphasise the need for confidentiality in HR departments, more so in small businesses where only one or two people would be aware of the circumstances and the need for utter confidentiality. I have concerns about the risks of any breach of confidentiality in those circumstances. <BR /> <BR />The legislation is an essential step in the right direction, but more needs to be done. Victims and survivors of sexual assault are similarly affected and may need time off work for medical treatment, to attend court or even to meet healthcare professionals. I hope that that is something we can investigate in the next mandate. <BR /> <BR />Ultimately, the sad truth is that, while domestic abuse is all too common, it is often a hidden problem.”
“As we advance the Bill, I hope that the Department will ensure that employers and employees are educated on the potential impact that water-cooler conversations could have on victims who are in these circumstances.”
“I thank the Bill sponsor for this very important and timely Bill. In Northern Ireland, we have some of the highest rates of domestic abuse in the United Kingdom, with one incident occurring every 17 minutes, equating to around 8,500 domestic abuse incidents since the Second Stage of the Bill. How shocking is that? Domestic abuse has reached terrifying proportions in Northern Ireland. Support in the form of paid leave is crucial to ensuring that victims have the economic flexibility to retain employment while fleeing an abusive relationship. <BR /> <BR />Having worked for some 30 years in the Labour Relations Agency, I believe that, while the Bill is hugely significant, how it will operationalise is equally essential. Legislation alone is not enough. Training and raising awareness will be vital.”
“<BR /> <BR />Moving on from today, I hope that the police and the broader criminal justice system will reassure the public that the most private and sensitive information will continue to be protected and that only information necessary to an investigation will be examined.”
“Those devices can be beneficial in criminal investigations, offering insight into an individual's actions, movements and state of mind. However, that encroachment on somebody's privacy must be used only when absolutely necessary. <BR /> <BR />Of course, we must recognise the challenges that the police face in the digital age. The Information Commissioner's report suggested that a broad approach is needed to address privacy concerns while achieving modern criminal justice objectives. Therefore, it is entirely welcome that the Minister has taken steps to ensure that only information relevant to an investigation will be taken. As other Members have said, it is a complex area that engages not just data protection law but human rights law and the criminal justice system.”
“First, I thank the Minister of Justice and her ministerial colleagues for their important work on the LCM. Like others, I will keep my remarks brief. <BR /> <BR />I am entirely supportive of the Minister's proposals. The Bill is going through Westminster, where, as others have said, it has had its difficulties and is highly contentious. However, the LCM simply deals with the essential section of the legislation on the extraction of vital technological information. <BR /> <BR />Many of our laws were enacted before today's technology was even thought about. Since then, mobile devices have become a prominent part of everybody's daily life. Statistics from Ofcom suggest that 78% of adults use a smartphone every day.”
“I am interested. We obviously have not seen the list of consultees, Mr Carroll. You read a list of trade unions. Trade unions do, however, have a collective voice: the Northern Ireland Committee of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions. Was it included in that consultation process?”
“Apologies, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will sum up briefly. The view of the Alliance Party is that this conversation is coming too late in this mandate. It is regrettable that the Minister has said that he is keen for legislation, that it can and should be brought forward, but not in this mandate, and —”
“I remember standing in the car park at the Labour Relations Agency, before the door was open, making phone calls to the relevant trade unions and the employer to get them in to start the talks, because it was on the news that morning that school buses had not been running. That type of intervention from an organisation that has respect from the trade union movement and employers means that it can sit down and work its way through all of those things.”
“I agree with Mr Weir. It is vital that that space is there to allow for cooling-off periods and to allow people to give consideration. There will be times when people simply down tools and walk out. That is a fact of life, but it is then for those who are skilled in dealing with those situations to make contact with the parties to the dispute and bring them round the table. <BR /> <BR />I remember a strike by Translink workers that took place in Belfast. It was not an official strike; it was a group of workers who had a particular grievance at the time. The buses stopped at 6.30 am.”
“<BR /> <BR />I passionately believe that there needs to be time and space for people to sit down, negotiate and go through the mechanisms that have been agreed between the parties. A lot of my time was spent working on procedures that were written down but rarely adhered to. It is about bringing people into that space, sitting them down in a neutral environment, inviting them to look at what they agreed to, and encouraging and persuading them to work their way through that. There will, of course, always be disputes that flare up and which there is no process or procedure for dealing with. That is the role for an organisation like the Labour Relations Agency: to be immediately in touch with those organisations, to invite them and to encourage them to come and sit down. I remember —.”
“Having spoken to representatives of the trade union movement, I know that that is the direction in which they want to move. They want to move away from the type of environment that, perhaps, Mr Carroll harks back to. <BR /> <BR />I understand some of the concerns about ballots. I have no particular concerns about, for example, moving to online balloting, provided that it is appropriately secured. I know that the Electoral Reform Society has been conducting postal ballots for trade unions for many years. I have never seen any difficulty in that. I do not believe that, in all my years at the Labour Relations Agency, there was a single dispute around either a ballot paper being presented to an employer or that ballot paper being distributed to members of the trade union, because that was being done independently on behalf of the trade union.”
“That can only be achieved by bringing together those who have the right voice to deliver that type of change. What we should be creating in our employment law is a collaborative, consultative process that will deliver high-quality employment relations. <BR /> <BR />We should draw upon some of the European models for workers' councils. Those are for very large organisations. I take the point that Mr Carroll makes in his Bill. I agree, for example, with Mr Weir on the concerns about secondary action. It is important that the workers who are affected by a particular issue are the ones at the core and centre of the dispute. I do not want to see disputes in employment. What I want to see are high-quality mechanisms that allow people to resolve disputes before they take place.”
“That is why it is important that we go out and widely consult on this type of change.”
“One of my concerns about the Bill that Mr Carroll has brought to us tonight is that the consultation on it did not quite achieve that reach. <BR /> <BR />One of the earliest Ministers who had responsibility for employment and learning was my colleague Stephen Farry, now an MP. He blocked much of the draconian Tory trade union legislation brought forward by Westminster. As I said, we had the opportunity to deal with employment law, as it was devolved to us in Northern Ireland. In my view, he took the right route by consulting widely. He undertook to make changes to employment legislation here. Some of the things that he said at the time were:”
“We have seen some changes, a number of which we are working through at the moment, that have made a difference to, for example, zero-hours contracts, but there is a need to reform trade union legislation. There are lots of reasons why we have not got to that point, but there is no point in crying over spilt milk; we are where we are. <BR /> <BR />It is important that we seek to make that change, and it is vital that that is done in consultation with the widest group of people. The trade union movement, through its collective voice in the Northern Ireland Committee of the Irish Congress of Trade Unions, the employers' organisations, of which there are several, and civic society need to be involved. They all need to be engaged in a broad-based consultation about the topics and areas that any change in the law needs to bring about.”