Stewart Dickson
East Antrim · Alliance Party · Northern Ireland
“Thank you, Minister, for your answer. Minister, you will have noted that the Government recently announced a VAT cut for some family expenses for a range of activities over the summer. That is perhaps a change.”
“Many do not know how to apply; others do not even realise that the opportunities exist. If the process itself is a barrier to participation, it is really not open to all.”
“I was born in 1950 in Thorndale House, which was one of the homes that is named in the legislation. I was born to married parents, and Thorndale House was a maternity home. It was where you went to have your baby in 1950 on the Antrim Road. My mum and dad went there, I was born and, a few days later, I left with loving parents.”
“I agree with Mr Brett: amendment No 6 is important because it will deal with persons who refuse to provide information or evidence to the inquiry. Amendment No 8 to clause 20 is a tidying-up amendment that will allow the Committee to make interim reports, which will be of benefit to the inquiry process.”
“That is why I want the inquiry to succeed and why it is vital that it succeeds. That is why it is important for us to see that cruelty in the full glare of a public inquiry. That is why it is important that the scheme goes through without further delay. <BR /> <BR />Finally, I place on record my thanks to the Committee Chair.”
“The Assembly faces stark choices, and agreeing the draft Budget as it stands is not a silver bullet, nor is it sustainable for us to continue in the absence of a Budget. It is vital, therefore, that we break the cycle of crisis and collapse that has been destroying our public finances.”
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“I obviously welcome that information on the reduction in the time taken. Minister, can we be assured that Access NI not only has clear targets but will meet or exceed those targets into the future to allow people to get employment or to continue in voluntary work?”
“Are those appointments at the expense of other aspects of the justice system or will you be able to avail yourself of additional funds to follow through on those appointments and to support the cost of those appointments into the future?”
“I congratulate the Minister on moving the process forward on the appointment of Coroners Service investigators.”
“<BR /> <BR />We have heard no dissenting voices thus far. It seems that there is a broad measure of agreement with regard to this legislation. It is a good example of how a private Member's Bill can identify and correct gaps in the licensing law. We need to move with the times. The facilities that we have in Northern Ireland need to be able to meet the modern expectations of those who use the stadia, not only today but into the future.”
“For example, as others have said, a court may attach certain conditions to outdoor stadia licences at any time during the life of the licensing application and its operation. Common sense is applied in clauses 3 and 5 to prevent stadia running off-licences or purposely run pubs or using the licence in another inappropriate temporary stadium. Clause 7 applies the same conditions for the sale of alcohol as were implemented for indoor arenas in 2004. I do not think that there is any dispute that the licence has operated successfully in the Odyssey Arena. This means that we will see the same tried-and-tested conditions for this new category of premises. I believe that that reduces any concerns about risks associated with it, while taking seriously into consideration the need for a family-friendly atmosphere.”
“Looking to the prospect of some world events, particularly the Rugby World Cup, and the need to clarify the law, it is sensible that we look at this aspect of licensing, considering that a comprehensive review of our rather outdated licensing regime is unlikely to happen. Tonight is perhaps not the time to criticise the Minister or the Department for not bringing forward those changes. Nevertheless, others have placed on the record their concern about the speed at which those changes have come forward. I add my voice to that, particularly in respect of Drumbo stadium, which is another anomaly that has got caught in the black hole of the failure to bring forward appropriate changes to our licensing laws. <BR /> <BR />It is important and prudent that Mrs Cochrane has included safeguards in the Bill.”
“I, like others, start by commending my party colleague Judith Cochrane for taking the initiative and bringing forward this necessary change to the legislation. We should also welcome the cross-party, and indeed wider community, support that the Bill has received. It is important that we move quickly and efficiently to ensure that it is passed before dissolution. <BR /> <BR />This legislation moves our licensing law with the times, recognising that the nature of our stadia — hopefully, those stadia will be joined shortly by the new Casement Park — has moved on since the creation of our licensing law structures. That will considerably increase the capacity and indeed versatility of the stadia available across Northern Ireland.”
“I think that the number of developments that are taking place to tackle crime can and will support businesses across Northern Ireland. I have confidence that our Minister has been listening to these issues and that the PSNI, along with other agencies, is out there and is tackling them. It is not all a doom-and-gloom situation, and as hard as criminals may try, there are those who are willing and prepared to stop them.”
“There are, however, good things that go on in combating such crime. Earlier this year, I attended a machine-marking event by the PSNI to try to counteract rural fraud. There is a great deal of theft of farm machinery, but great efforts are being made by farmers, the Ulster Farmers' Union, the PSNI and local PCSPs to attempt to combat that. Other Members made reference to the theft of animals. That is most reprehensible, because quite often some of the animals that are stolen end up in illegal food chains, which not only results in a loss for the farmer but is a great danger to the public. <BR /> <BR />In closing, I thank those who came to convey to the Justice Department the issues that face businesses in Northern Ireland.”
“We heard from the FSB that the average cost of fraud and online crime to a small business is just under £4,000 per year. That is a real and serious cost to small businesses that many can ill afford.”
“For example, a short time ago, we saw a massive security breach at TalkTalk in which apparently some 160,000 people had elements of data stolen. It is clear that there are people who have the will and the capability to undermine the data-protection systems of businesses, large and small. <BR /> <BR />I want to speak about small and petty crime. Just over a week ago, there was a theft from a shop in the street outside my office. The help that I at least could provide through my CCTV allowed for the recovery of the goods that were stolen from the shop. Crime is all around us; we should not ignore even the smallest of events. In a world where so much commerce is conducted online, business owners and Government alike must be aware of the challenges that cybercrime poses.”
“If they do not, they are undermining staff morale and of course ultimately the profitability of their business. <BR /> <BR />It is, however, also important to note the positivity expressed by those organisations about the work that they do with the statutory agencies, specifically the Department of Justice, the Policing Board and local PCSPs. Perhaps, in future, greater focus on such partnerships with a more specific approach could yield even greater outcomes. Recently, we heard concern about cybercrime, which also featured at the stakeholder event. It has the potential not only to undermine businesses' finance but also their data security, with the much wider concern that that causes to customers.”
“I want to start by thanking the Chairperson of the Committee for facilitating the business crime stakeholder event in May, and particularly the organisations that attended, including FSB, the Independent Retail Trade Association, the Retail Consortium, the police, Pubs of Ulster and Retailers Against Crime. <BR /> <BR />As others said, the under-reporting of crime amongst businesses was highlighted as a key issue. One of the reasons stated was the low level of confidence in the criminal-justice system. While it is important to understand that those issues contribute to low confidence amongst some, we must also recognise that under-reporting crime will only make the situation worse. If anyone is listening to the debate, they should be encouraged to report even the smallest of crimes that they believe affect their business.”
“We need to be sure that what we do here does not add to those burdens but attempts to bring those issues under control. <BR /> <BR />Finally, like others, I have health and safety concerns. There needs to be adequate control in the Bill to allow for high-quality health and safety checks, particularly for gas and electricity, and carbon monoxide, to ensure that those in this type of accommodation have the best-quality health and safety standards delivered to them. <BR /> <BR />Work on the Bill will continue in the Committee. At this stage, the Alliance Party is happy to support the principles of the Bill.”
“I am concerned about whether those areas are adequately covered. I am also concerned that we get the balance right in respect of the ability to carry out enforcement with regard to landlords who require that to be done. We also need to mark the fact that many landlords go above and beyond that which is required of them to provide decent accommodation for people living in this type of accommodation. <BR /> <BR />I am concerned about whether the Bill will adequately deal with antisocial behaviour from within the property and the way in which behaviour in that property has an effect on neighbours. Again, as the vice Chair and others said, there are concerns that there are areas that are already saturated with particular types of housing.”
“In order for those things to happen, those services have to be adequately resourced. The Alliance Party welcomes the Bill, in principle. As the Minister and officials will be aware, we have been examining specific areas that we have been looking at in the Committee. I hope that, with cooperation between the Committee and officials, we will be able to deal with all those issues without the Committee having to put forward amendments and creating pressure for those things to happen. <BR /> <BR />Mr Beggs made reference to how fit-and-proper persons are identified and whether other people can act as front persons for fit-and-proper persons. In other words, what happens if the owner of the property is not a fit-and-proper person and they pass that responsibility on to agents or to other family members?”
“I thank the Minister for introducing the Bill's Second Stage today. Perhaps it is somewhat belated, but we are here. As others have said, and as the vice Chair very eloquently set out in his remarks, the Committee has been looking at aspects of the Bill in preparation for this stage and the next stage of the Bill. <BR /> <BR />I do not wish to say very much that has not already been said by colleagues. Perhaps one or two areas have not been covered. With the transferring of this function to local authorities, there is concern about whether the local authority will have adequate resources and funding to carry out the task. That is an essential area if the Bill is to be meaningful. We have heard Members comment on the ability to enforce and the ability to inspect.”
“Thank you for your answers so far, Minister. Given your undertaking to the House this afternoon to work with relatives to ensure that residents are provided with the best possible care in alternative accommodation, can you assure the House that you will not oversee residents from these homes going into establishments that have been highly criticised by the RQIA, like Cherry Tree House in Carrickfergus? Will you undertake, as your predecessor failed to do, to meet me and get appropriate outcomes for the people who feel very let down by Cherry Tree House nursing home?”
“I welcome your recognition that there is confusion. Despite there being a flooding incident line, confusion continues to reign. The recent flooding incident at Greenisland railway station in east Antrim, for example, is a classic case of both Departments trying to palm one off onto the other. At this point in time today, neither the Rivers Agency nor NI Water is prepared to take responsibility for a very dangerous situation because it forces pedestrians onto the roadway.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I recognise what he says about the deployment of some resources at least into conventional weapons. Does he share the view of his party colleague Mr Donaldson that Trident should be relocated to Northern Ireland if the Scottish Government decide that they do not wish to have it on their shores any longer?”
“— would be to consider our conventional forces.”
“A full renewal of Trident would be a costly vanity project for the United Kingdom. Instead, a less costly option —”
“As a nation, we need to move away from our nuclear status. I do not believe that it makes the UK superior to other nations, as some may think, but I do understand that, since the future is uncertain, it makes sense to retain a nuclear deterrent into the future until the United Kingdom Government make a decision about Trident. Ultimately, the resources saved can be reinvested in public services, in our infrastructure and in properly strengthening our economy as well as our conventional forces.”
“Further to that, aid and diplomacy are the preventative measures that the United Kingdom must strengthen and fund to stifle conflict and to encourage dialogue and economic and social development in the world's troubled regions.”
“<BR /> <BR />Trident, for me, is an albatross around the neck of our security forces, as others said, tying down the Royal Navy's expertise and resources. Meanwhile the rest of our conventional services that we use every day are done on the cheap. That was proved by further announcements yesterday.”
“<BR /> <BR />Nonetheless, despite our defence and cooperation treaty with France, French jets will not be able to use our carriers because of a Government attempt to do it on the cheap. Further to that, the numbers in our conventional standing army are dwindling to levels that have not been seen since the Boer Wars. Granted, the United Kingdom no longer has a vast empire, but we are crossing a milestone that could leave us unable to defend our country and our interests in the future, whether it is defence or, for me more importantly and more proudly, what the United Kingdom does when it comes to the use of our armed services in humanitarian aid in disasters and other theatres around the world.”
“<BR /> <BR />Despite what others may think, the United Kingdom is no longer a world superpower and has not been since the 1950s. Its place in the world is not defined by its possession of nuclear weapons but is based on its conventional capability and relationship with other countries in the world. Currently, the United Kingdom has no aircraft carriers in service, severely undermining our ability to respond to the world's events. Fortunately, soon, Her Majesty's ship, the Queen Elizabeth, will be launched, as well as Her Majesty's ship, the Prince of Wales. However, in typical UK Government fashion, we do not have aircraft to fly off them. I happily saw that yesterday the Chancellor sought to finally resolve that anomaly, but that will take more time.”
“Fortunately, the Cold War never turned hot because, if it had, I doubt that we would be standing here today. As we know, nuclear weapons have been used only once in anger, some 70 years ago in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the legacy of which had an impact on Japan and the world and something that we all have to think about today. <BR /> <BR />We are told of the benefits to the UK of holding on to a renewed Trident. However, it is impossible to assess the claims that the Government will never disclose the situation in which nuclear weapons would ultimately be used. The current talk of fully renewing Trident also ignores the aspirations of the non-proliferation treaty, which seeks to further the goal of achieving nuclear disarmament.”
“Nonetheless, spending of up to the likes of £167 billion on renewing or maintaining the current level of the Trident deterrent seems to me to be a rather foolhardy endeavour, whether in times of austerity or beyond, especially when you consider that its use is equally a pointless gesture that taxpayers are unlikely to see. <BR /> <BR />Furthermore, we must consider that the Trident system is perhaps one that has long outlived its relevance. It was born from the 1950 and 1960's defence review following the disasters of Suez and the ominous threats of a thermonuclear-armed Soviet Union. I am old enough to remember my parents' and, indeed, my grandparents' views of the Second World War and the use of nuclear weapons on Japan, as well as a determination of many that they would never be used again.”
“I support the motion. I also seek to reference a proposed Alliance amendment, which was not selected but which I believe would have provided for a more rounded and perhaps more realistic motion by calling for adequate investment in our conventional defence forces. Refocusing on our conventional forces is where I believe we should be heading in this debate. <BR /> <BR />I am sure no one wants to live in a world where nuclear weapons exist, but unfortunately they do. We certainly live in interesting times. For that reason, I am not calling for the unilateral disarmament of the United Kingdom, lest anyone should think that.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Yesterday afternoon there was a debate at which I proposed a motion on behalf of my party. Considerable dissent was expressed when the vote on the motion was put to the Chamber, but, equally, considerable support was voiced by my party Members. I do not think this is the first occasion when concern has been raised about whether an appropriate Division should be called. I am concerned that a Division was not called yesterday on that debate. May I ask you to review the process of calling a Division by your Deputy Speakers? Thank you, Mr Speaker.”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I ask that you review your decision, given the decision made by the Speaker last week on a Division.”
“You would get elected if we moved to five seats.”
“It is a question of simple practicalities. Does the Member agree with me that, even if we pass the legislation that is contained in 'A Fresh Start', which requires the election of five Members per constituency from 2021, if these institutions meet a brick wall the day after the 2016 election and we cannot form an Executive, a further election will be held and that will be to five-Member constituencies?”
“I hear what she says about the make-up of her constituency. If we change the number of Members, that is called democracy.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I appreciate that it has to be part of a detailed package of measures, and whatever one may think of Fresh Start, it will actually deliver a piece of legislation to the House on which Members will have the opportunity to vote — that is legislation. However, the legislation will promote voting for a reduction in the size of the Assembly in 2021. Will the Member not join me in seeking to have that legislation amended to make it 2016? Perhaps he is the biggest dead parrot in this establishment, having been killed off by his party leader.”
“I understand what the Member says with regard to confidence in the institutions, but they have been here for some 20 years. Would you not share with me a great deal of disappointment and frustration that you and others have failed to build that confidence?”
“I appreciate what the Member is saying and genuinely appreciate his saying that legislation will be brought forward. Therefore, the issue is not the bringing forward of legislation. We are all on common ground on that and, I think, when it comes to the numbers. The question is quite simply this: why not do it now?”
“Many people are already suffering as a consequence of public spending cuts, and we know that many public servants have had their pay and conditions restricted. In that context, I believe that it is critical that the Assembly is seen to show leadership in reducing its own costs. Ultimately, people will simply not understand the political parties that think that it would be a good idea to have this change in place after the next Assembly election but do not think that it is good enough to have it in place in time for the coming Assembly election. The burden of proof lies on those who are arguing for delay, which is why something should happen now.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Alliance Party is concerned about the implications of dropping to below five Members per constituency, but we do not believe that a move to five-Member constituencies would radically alter outcomes. Indeed, we tabled today's motion as the fifth-largest party in the Assembly. Some might suggest that a reduction would be a bigger risk to us than to any of the four parties that are currently larger than us. However, we are convinced that it is quite simply the right thing to do. Over the next five years, the reduction would also save around £11 million. While that seems relatively modest in the grand scheme of things, every little helps. Like most Members, I could readily produce a list of matters on which we could spend the money. <BR /> <BR />The wider point is leadership.”
“<BR /> <BR />Six multi-Member constituencies are also an anomaly in terms of the single transferable vote in other jurisdictions. The Republic of Ireland has historically tended to have three-, four- or five-Member constituencies. <BR />More locally, we have seen the trend to move away from large multi-member DEAs, and our recent local government elections saw a large number of five-member DEAs. Even within a divided society such as Northern Ireland, six-Member constituencies are more than is required for strong proportionality outcomes. I have read comments on how smaller parties might perform in five-Member constituencies. Based on the last electoral outcome, it would be little different from where they are today. Frankly, PR looks after small parties.”
“Especially in the context of fewer Departments, no one can credibly maintain that we would not have more than enough MLAs to function. <BR /> <BR />An Assembly of 108 MLAs is also out of context with Northern Ireland's recent past of previous devolved structures. Since the dissolution of the old Stormont House of Commons, we have seen the following bodies with these numbers of Members. Sunningdale set up an Assembly of 78 Members. The Assembly of rolling devolution in the early 1980s contained the same number of seats. The Northern Ireland Forum contained 110, but that was a very different attempt to be inclusive. It seems we have held to this for over 20 years and in the foundations of the agreement that was reached to set up this Assembly.”
“The Welsh have one Assembly Member per 51,000 people. Westminster MPs represent, on average, 98,000 people. By stark comparison, our 108 Assembly Members represent 16,800 constituents each. In addition, we have 460 district councillors in Northern Ireland and 18 MPs. That really does suggest that we are overgoverned. If we were to apply Scotland or Wales's ratios to this Assembly, we would have 44 or 35 MLAs respectively. What is being proposed today is nowhere near that reduction, but it is, in my view and that of the Alliance Party, a step in the right direction. <BR /> <BR />The experience of both Scotland and Wales shows that somewhat smaller Assemblies do not undermine good governance. They have sufficient Members to provide for effective scrutiny and to people their Committee systems, allowing for proper accountability.”
“<BR /> <BR />Some Members may point to a forthcoming review of parliamentary constituencies and, by extension, Assembly constituencies during the lifetime of this mandate of the Westminster Parliament. There is a suggestion that the number of Northern Ireland constituencies might fall from 18 to 16. However, the legislation on the reduction of MLAs is future-proofed. It will apply in just the same way if there are 18 or 16 parliamentary constituencies. The only difference would be having 90 MLAs or 80 MLAs. <BR /> <BR />The rationale for this reduction is clear and strong. Northern Ireland is overgoverned. We have substantially more MLAs per head than both Scotland and Wales and overwhelmingly more than the United Kingdom Parliament. Quite simply, the figures speak for themselves. The people of Scotland have one MSP per 40,300 people.”
“While it is important to recognise that anything other than a reduction from six to five Members would involve more complicated legislation at Westminster, including amendment to the Northern Ireland Act 1998, this option for a particular change from six to five per constituency has been given to the Assembly. There is also no practical difficulty in implementation. Reduction in time for the election in May would not cause any difficulty to the Electoral Office or indeed the Electoral Commission. Quite simply, the request is to elect five rather than six Members per constituency. There is no need for any transitional arrangements or phasing arrangements.”
“However, this process is a significantly more complicated task than a reduction in the number of MLAs. For example, it will involve primary legislation in the Assembly and, in turn, a transfer of functions order. Behind the scenes, a huge amount of work is being conducted by civil servants on the practical issues of finance, human resources, managing the estate and internal restructuring. <BR /> <BR />By contrast to reducing the number of Departments, reducing the number of MLAs per constituency from six to five only requires passing a simple piece of legislation. Indeed, the Assembly Members (Reduction of Numbers) Bill is annexed to the 'Fresh Start' document. Applying this reduction to the May 2016 election requires only one small change to one clause.”
“It is notable that the Executive are set to proceed with the reduction of Departments with effect from the start of the new mandate. That, of course, is the right thing to do.”
“However, we now have a situation where the reduction in the number of MLAs is to take effect immediately after the 2016 election. While that might mean at the next scheduled election in 2021, it could also apply to any election called earlier — indeed, to one called as early as the end of June 2016 in the context of the inability to form an Executive after the 2016 election. That strikes me as a case of, "Oh Lord, make me holy, but not just yet". <BR /> <BR />The principle that the Assembly is too large and needs to be reduced in size has been accepted and is won; there is no debate over that argument any longer. However, what is the reason for delaying its implementation? I can only presume that it is party-political self-interest rather than the public good. There are, quite simply, no good reasons for delay.”
“The context of this motion has changed little since the emergence of the so-called Fresh Start deal last week; the fundamental thrust of the motion remains the same. Without doubt, there will be many opportunities to discuss the wider 'Fresh Start' document as a whole and the individual components in it, but the motion that I bring forward today discusses the size of the Assembly. The former Stormont House Agreement committed the Assembly to a reduction in the number of MLAs per constituency from six to five by 2021. Of course, that does not preclude it from happening earlier. <BR /> <BR />Before and after, some political parties, including mine, advocated that it should occur earlier, particularly taking effect for the May 2016 Assembly elections.”
“I thank the Minister for the information. In a sense, I am not commenting on what he has said to us about a lack of scrutiny by the Committee in regard to the regulations as they pass through Westminster; it is rather more to comment, with total and utter amazement, that the Chair of the Social Development Committee, Sinn Féin Member Mr Alex Maskey, has agreed to a process that allows that to happen, given the intense scrutiny that he and his party colleagues have, in the past, attached to welfare benefits.”