Steven Agnew
North Down · Green Party · Northern Ireland
“We need an independent, open and transparent process for investigating Ministers. I have always failed to understand the opposition to that from some in the House. Given recent events, if the Assembly was to oppose it again today, there would be public anger.”
“This process would involve one commissioner and one independent investigation, rather than a political investigation that, I have no doubt, some at the time called a witch-hunt, as is often said when people are defending their Minister.”
“I am delighted to make a winding-up speech on this debate, which has been the first-ever sole Green Party private Member's motion. Thanks to the election of my colleague, Clare Bailey, we have two Green MLAs, which has increased our ability to use the Assembly privileges to put such suggestions forward.”
“I absolutely agree, Mr Beggs. <BR /> <BR />Another point I will make is about the idea of the distinction between the Minister and the Department. When I was drafting my private Member's Bill, I asked, "Should that say 'Minister' or 'Department'?". The legal advice that I was given was that they are one and the same.”
“If an MLA is alleged to have breached the code, a member of the public can write to the standards commissioner and have their complaint investigated in an independent manner. The result of any investigation is published and can, if required, lead to a debate in the Assembly so that all the issues can be aired.”
“I would argue that it serves neither the Minister nor the public well that we do not have such a process. An individual who seeks to complain will be left frustrated if they feel that their concerns are ignored by those in office, who are supposed to act on their behalf.”
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“There is the difficulty that school holidays can bring. I am in the fortunate position where both of us work and we have the money to afford private childcare as well as the publicly funded, but for many parents who cannot, that will be a significant barrier to work. <BR /> <BR />So, I would like to ask the proposers whether they see the 30 hours as a priority, or one of a number of priorities, because there are also the issues of extension to two-year-olds and investing in the skills and valuing the workforce, because it should not be, as it sometimes is —”
“Yes, it informs them and it is important, but I know that, if the services do not follow, a lot of those parents can feel somewhat abandoned. <BR /> <BR />The issue of childcare is obviously key, both socially and economically, and I welcome the call for the increase to 30 hours of free provision. It was in the Green Party manifesto. However, the Minister will have choices to make, even if he is to commit to investing more in childcare. As well as the increase in the number of hours, there is some evidence to suggest that it might be more helpful, or at least also helpful, to increase the number of weeks in which there is provision. As a parent, I have to nip out this afternoon to pick up my child from school because the after-school club is not on today and our childcare provider cannot pick him up until the usual time.”
“<BR /> <BR />One of the key issues in early years provision that has been touched upon today is speech and language development. Early detection of speech and language difficulties and, importantly, providing the services to help a child overcome those difficulties is key. It is a startling statistic that approximately one third of our prison population has speech and language difficulties. The victims of a lack of provision in early years become the perpetrators in adulthood. We have to break that link and ensure that we do not condemn children to those difficulties in later life. We have got a lot better at early detection; we now need the services that should follow. Giving a parent a diagnosis increases stress and worry.”
“We rightly put a lot of focus on education; it is extremely important in a child's development. However, the reality is that, if a child starts school behind their peers, the likelihood is that that child will never catch up and will always remain behind. So it is important, in calling on the Education Minister to take action on these issues, that we emphasise that he must do so in conjunction with the Minister of Health in particular. Any early years education and care Act must be cross-departmental. The Minister has good experience of that. I know that, in consideration of the Special Educational Needs and Disability Bill, he proposed amendments to ensure cross-departmental working. I am sure that he will practice what he preached when he was Chair of the Education Committee.”
“I take this opportunity to congratulate my North Down colleague Peter Weir on his elevation to the post of Education Minister. I look forward to five years of blaming him for every failing in our education system. I am delighted to welcome him to the post. <BR /> <BR />The motion conflates two connected but to some extent separate issues: early years provision and childcare. Most of the debate has focused on childcare, which I will come to at the end, but I want to speak a bit about early years provision. <BR /> <BR />As has been rehearsed in the Assembly a number of times but is worth repeating, intervention and investment in the early years of a child's life is the single most effective thing we can do to tackle disadvantage in our society and ensure that every child has equal opportunities.”
“I have a petition signed by close to 65,000 people objecting to this. If there is to be a new model from this new Executive — a paradigm shift, as it was described earlier — we need our Executive to listen. We need to hear that the people do not want this. We need to stop the drill.”
“I have heard a lot of talk about the supposedly watertight environment that InfraStrata is operating in. I was there on Friday, and I saw the pipe coming out of the site into the forest, presumably for water run-off. It is not exactly watertight. There were plenty of damp areas outside the site, and everybody knows that they are not because of the recent rain. <BR /> <BR />We need to change the open-door policy at the Department for the Economy. We need to get rid of permitted development rights for minerals exploration and to ensure maximum scrutiny when these types of applications come forward. We heard today about the Programme for Government and the new model of how we will do things. I welcomed elements of that, one of which was going out to the public and asking them.”
“I will not give way; the Member did not give way to me. <BR /> <BR />It is clear that permitted development rights are not appropriate for this type of development. We had to fight to get permitted development rights for solar panels on people's homes. We should not be drilling, particularly in a public forest in a water catchment area adjacent to a reservoir, without full environmental scrutiny and proper independent assurance that it is safe to do so.”
“<BR /> <BR />When I sat on the Enterprise, Trade and Investment Committee, we were told quite openly by the Department of its open-door policy on petroleum licensing. The only condition to be met when seeking a licence — Mr Lyons used DETI scrutiny as an example of proper scrutiny — was evidence that the applicant could carry out what was required by the licence. DETI holds no regulation beyond that and certainly did not scrutinise the work that passed to the DOE. <BR /> <BR />Two things need to change —”
“Sorry, Robin Swann also signed, but his party collectively did not come on board. Mr Beggs also signed. Two Ulster Unionists signed. The Ulster Unionist Party did not approach me to sign the petition. <BR /> <BR />Ultimately, that is what the Government is for: to make, challenge and review decisions and to make sure that they act in the best interests of the people. I appreciate that Mr Durkan has been honest in the process. The DOE was asleep at the wheel when permitted development rights were granted. It should not take Friends of the Earth to tell the DOE how to do its job or what it has missed, or the Minister for that matter. This should have been examined closely at the time. It should have been stopped at that point, but, as was pointed out, there were many opportunities to stop this.”
“As Alex Attwood is often keen to say, it is not just being in government but being in power. Those parties in power had the power to act. Indeed, I sought to initiate a petition to have the decision recalled and reviewed by the Executive. That is why I make an exception for the Alliance Party, because it was the only other party prepared to sign. <BR /> <BR />I will give way to Mr Swann.”
“We are here because one of the most invasive, destructive and dangerous processes has been allowed to take place without public consultation, without public scrutiny and, importantly, without public consent. There have been a lot of attempts to play the blame game here this evening. I think that we have to be honest. Every party that sat in the last Executive has to hold its hands up. I will maybe make an exception for the Alliance party, and I will say why in a minute. <BR /> <BR />There was an opportunity to scrutinise this decision. The failures of DOE have been pointed out, and it has been pointed out that DARD had responsibility and that DRD had responsibility. The whole Executive have responsibility, and that is what I was talking about today. It is the collective responsibility of being in government.”
“Before the Member moves on from the initial decision not to object to permitted development rights, can he explain the comments of his colleague Claire Hanna that somehow the Department did not know that this was going to be an exploratory drill? Under what basis was it permitted? What did the Department know?”
“I hope we will not have, as we have seen in the past, an Executive agenda driven by economic growth over everything else.”
“There is another commitment to increase environmental sustainability. I express my optimism, I suppose, about that being there, but I am disappointed that the only measure seems to be the measurement of greenhouse gases. That is absolutely fundamental, of course, but I cannot stand over a commitment to environmental sustainability that says that if you reduce greenhouse gases it is OK if you pollute our rivers. We need something more holistic. We need genuine sustainability. <BR /> <BR />I worry that all the talk about openness and well-being is undermined by the very opening purpose statement, which talks about:”
“More importantly, I hope that we will see a signal that we can have inclusivity in Northern Ireland and that outcome 3, for a more equal society, is not just words but something we can achieve in reality.”
“Are we going to see Minister Givan bring forward the long-awaited sexual orientation strategy, which was promised in the last Programme for Government but not delivered? Are we going to finally see legislation for marriage equality brought through and passed in this Assembly? We have to respect the mandate of the DUP, whose manifesto said that it would not support such provision. Equally, however, I call on the First Minister and her party to respect the mandate of those of us who were elected with the commitment that we would achieve marriage equality and that, when that proposal comes back to the Assembly, we will see no petition of concern and will see respect of that mandate.”
“This was not only a cost to public finances but a cost to the reputation of these institutions and our governance. We need to see cooperative governance and a Government that act as one and are responsible for all decisions, not just those of their particular party colleagues. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the commitment to equality in outcome 3 in the document. Again, the test will be in what actions are taken to achieve that equality. Equality is not simply ending discrimination, as is mentioned in the opening paragraphs of outcome 3. Equality has to be about more than that; it has to be about inclusion and rights protected within the law. In that, we have a challenge to the parties of government.”
“I want to see us go beyond the legal requirement of government to work together for children and see a government that works together for the people of Northern Ireland as a whole. However, it appears that there is going to be no legislative requirement for that. In fact, in the last mandate, we could not secure a legal commitment to have cooperative governance. When John McCallister brought through his opposition Bill, his plan had been that the government would be a single entity. It concerns me that those now in power were resistant to that requirement. What I will be looking for today from the First Minister and the deputy First Minister is a commitment that we will not see a repeat of the embarrassment of Ministers suing other Ministers, which we saw repeatedly in the last Assembly, including from the now First Minister.”
“I hope for that too, but I have to say that I am not optimistic on that. My party was asked to meet the First Minister and the deputy First Minister in relation to the Justice portfolio. Quite reasonably, I thought, I asked to see a draft of the Programme for Government, and I was told no. If that is a sign of the type of engagement that we are going to see from this Government, I am afraid that the hope of a paradigm shift will not be lived up to. <BR /> <BR />The First Minister also spoke about a spirit of cooperation. Members will be well aware that that was high on my agenda in the last Assembly, having brought forward the Children's Services Co-operation Act (Northern Ireland) 2015.”
“Ask any person in the street, and they will want to see better educational achievement, better health outcomes and fewer preventable deaths. These are things that we can all subscribe to. The art of politics is in the how: how are we going to achieve these things? We are not there yet with this document, so it is right that this is a take-note debate because that is all we can do with the document. We can take note of it; the real substance will come in the actions plans and, I hope, a legislative timetable for what we should expect to come forward from this Executive on how they can deliver on these outcomes. <BR /> <BR />When he spoke, Mr Attwood talked about a hope of a paradigm shift and following the Scottish model of being open and being an interactive government that engages with the wider community.”
“This morning, when I woke up, I heard of the death of a constituent, which the police were investigating. In the last hour, I have heard that it was a member of the Assembly staff who died. I would like to put on record my condolences to the family and, if the initial suspicions of the police are true, I wish them every success in their investigation and in catching whoever was responsible for the death, if it has been untoward. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the outcomes-based approach of the draft Programme for Government framework. I think it is a progressive way of providing a holistic and long-term vision for Northern Ireland. The test is not what is in the document; it will be in what is to come. Politics is not simply about what we want to achieve.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is no secret that my party had discussions with the First and deputy First Ministers in relation to the Justice post. We were very clear that we would serve in Government only if we felt that we could progress our agenda and achieve more in Government than out of Government. The reality was that our agenda was very different from that of the DUP and Sinn Féin, which is why I am delighted that Clare Bailey and me will be in opposition and will be here to hold those parties to account. We will do all that we can to progress the Green Party manifesto through our work from these Back-Benches, through private Member's Bills and through holding the Executive to account.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I wish Claire Sugden very well and every great success in the role. On a personal level, we have worked together in what was formerly known as the "naughty corner", and I know that she is very capable of doing the job. That said, there has been an opportunity wasted to take another step in normalising politics in Northern Ireland. I question why, in 2016, we are still treating Justice differently and maintaining a provision that says, "We have to keep them-uns out." We have heard from the First Minister, who said that there could not be a Sinn Féin Justice Minister, although there can be a Sinn Féin Health or Education Minister. We will see how those Ministries are divvied out today. We still treat Justice differently, and that sends a signal that we are not ready to move on. That is a shame.”
“That is what we have seen from the Green Party and now, with my colleague Clare Bailey, that is what we can expect even more of.”
“Just today, there was a queue outside the Bill Office door to see who could be the first to bring forward legislation for marriage equality. I brought forward that first motion in the last Assembly at a time when other parties did not want to speak about it. Now parties are literally crawling over each other trying to be first to get to the door to bring forward that legislation. That is the effect that an opposition can have. Regardless of whether it is a formal opposition or an informal opposition, as we have had in this corner, that is the role that my party plans to operate. It is a constructive opposition. It is an opposition seeking change, but it is about delivery for the people of Northern Ireland. It is not opposition for opposition's sake or opposition without positive proposals for change.”
“I will not even try to follow that, thank you. Mr Speaker, this is my first opportunity to welcome you to your new position and congratulate your new deputies also. I congratulate the incoming First Minister and deputy First Minister. It is clear — we have seen it already today — that we have an emboldened opposition corner. We will provide an effective challenge to those who choose to take up seats in the Executive. <BR /> <BR />Throughout the election campaign, I said that the Green Party wants to see delivery for the people of Northern Ireland. If that comes from the Executive, we will welcome it, but, if it does not come, we will lead the way in bringing forward the change that Northern Ireland needs.”
“I need a bit of renewal myself, as Mr McGlone points out. I remain an optimist. I believe that there are solutions to the problems that we are discussing today. I have not heard them from the Minister or the Department in recent weeks and months, but I believe that a new Assembly and Executive can and should find those solutions.”
“As I said, this may be the best that we will get in the circumstances, but what we need is what comes next. That is what I want the Department, the Minister, in his limited time left in position, and the new Minister, whoever comes into office, to focus on. It is unacceptable that we stop here. <BR /> <BR />This has been quite a negative speech for my final contribution of the Assembly term. I hope that it is more of a "See you later" than a farewell, but the electorate will decide that. I came in as such a positive young man five years ago: look at what you have done to me.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. It is good to have this conversation. We used to have these discussions in Committee, but, unfortunately, he was moved from the Committee. I cannot think why that could have been. He makes a good point: demand-side management, energy storage — there are so many pieces to the picture. However, renewables are definitely one part. Indeed, we talk about the cost of energy, but I come back to the cost of not supporting renewables: what will the cost be if we continue to rely on fossil fuels? As supply goes down and demand goes up, we know that the price goes only one way. We need to end our reliance on fossil fuels, but, Mr Speaker, I probably need to end this speech, which was supposed to be a short one. <BR /> <BR />We need a way forward beyond what we decide today.”
“The renewables sector is unique. Representatives of the solar and wind industries came to the Committee and said, "We are plotting a path to a subsidy-free future for renewables". Both industries have used 2021 as a target. We have been gradually reducing the subsidy for renewable energy in stages for those technologies as they mature. Even they are setting an end point. Stopping when we can see the horizon seems to me short-sighted.”
“We always hear about the cost of renewables, but nobody talks about the cost of gas to bill payers or through direct subsidy. I will not even start on nuclear; the subsidies there are phenomenal.”
“We set a target for 40% renewable electricity by 2020, and we should be absolutely proud of how far we have come. Stopping here would be a mistake. <BR /> <BR />I know that the Minister is under a legal obligation in terms of the gas industry, despite saying that we need to end our reliance on fossil fuels. I know that he is under an obligation to promote the gas industry. To this day, the gas industry, despite being a mature industry, has never been subsidy-free. It receives subsidies when it wants to expand the grid infrastructure, including the £32·5 million direct government subsidy for the Gas to the West project. The boiler replacement scheme is another subsidy, and, indeed, the Ballylumford gas power station received a subsidy through consumer bills that put 1% on bills. Gas has never been subsidy-free.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am not saying that we should continue with what we have been doing and just pay for all of it ourselves; I am saying that I accept that what is being presented today might be the least worst option in terms of the position that DECC has put us in, but, at least, let us now say that we cannot rely on DECC — its vision is unsustainable in every sense. We need our own direction for Northern Ireland. Energy policy is devolved. We will take responsibility for it, and we will find a way forward for the renewables industry to thrive here. <BR /> <BR />There is real opportunity in renewables, and I do not want to see it being wasted. It has come so far, but the approach seems to be that we have done enough and that is good enough. We have a target.”
“We could look at whether that is sustainable in the medium-to-long term rather than in the short term, which seems to be what is being indicated. Could we have some form of small feed-in tariff (FIT) scheme? We cannot get access to the GB small FIT scheme, but can we explore something similar? The whole argument about the approach being taken today is that small-scale generation will not add significant costs to bills if we support it. Is that an option? Is there an all-Ireland approach, given that we are in a single electricity market with the Republic of Ireland? Is there some form of all-Ireland subsidy that could be negotiated? While that would take some time, it would, at least, offer the opportunity of a way forward.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. What I sought from the Minister in Committee today and what I seek now is at least an exploration of the options, and I have not even heard a commitment. Maybe, in his winding speech, we will get that commitment. There are options. There is contract for difference (CFD), and, certainly, when I speak to the industry, it is not saying that, if Northern Ireland were included in CFD, projects would be unaffordable here and they would not bid in. That is not what I hear: the industry is saying that it wants CFD in Northern Ireland and wants to bid for projects through that scheme. <BR /> <BR />I suppose that, for the smaller renewables sector, we have a stay of execution proposed here today for small-scale wind.”
“We said, "We support renewables. How important they are"; indeed, the Minister even told the Committee today that we must end our reliance on fossil fuels. Where is the commitment to end the reliance on fossil fuels when we are told, "Well, if you want to support the renewables industry you must pay for it. You must carry the cost immediately"? We are told, "It is unaffordable, and it's not something that we are going to choose". I repeat: it is a choice.”
“They are short-sighted and are based on almost a prejudice rather than on any sound evidence of what is good for the economy or, indeed, good for the UK in meeting our responsibilities under the Climate Change Act 2008. However, we have to take responsibility in Northern Ireland: energy is devolved. While we have to respond to decisions made by DECC, we cannot simply throw our hands up and say, "Well, they have decided they are going to cease supporting wind. Therefore, we must do the same". It makes the warm words of support for renewables from this Minister, his predecessor and, indeed, the wider Executive look empty. <BR /> <BR />The UK initially fully funded the renewable heat incentive, until we messed that one up, and, for renewable electricity, Great Britain carried the vast bulk of the cost of support.”
“<BR /> <BR />We talk about affordability, and Mr Frew rightly made the point about the need to strike a balance between supporting renewables and keeping energy prices at a sustainable level for business and domestic consumers. That is the right approach to take. However, we have to ask what the cost is of not supporting renewables. What is the cost of giving no incentivisation to a sector that, in Northern Ireland, across all forms of renewables, supports in the region of 10,000 jobs? What is the cost of no support? We have heard little about that from the Minister or in the debate so far. We must explore some of the alternatives. I accept that the decisions being made by DECC and Amber Rudd are ridiculous decisions.”
“When the Minister spoke with the Committee this morning, he talked about our having reached the limits of affordability in our support for the renewable industry. Of course, affordability is a choice. The Executive collectively have a choice between spending all the block grant on renewables, which I do not think anyone would call for or support, and, at the other extreme, giving no further support to renewables, which I certainly cannot support. Unfortunately, that seems to be the vision that the Minister is presenting to us now and, earlier, to the Committee. Between the two extremes, however, there are many options.”
“<BR /> <BR />To those such as you, Mr Speaker, who are not seeking re-election, I wish you well. I believe that there is not only a life after politics but most likely a better life after politics. It is one that I look forward to but, hopefully, not as soon as May. <BR /> <BR />On your point, Mr Speaker, on the number of women in the Assembly, it has been a failure of our parties to date to get women elected, and that is why my party introduced quotas and, for the first time, is standing nine female candidates out of a total of 18. That is 50% of our candidates, because we believe that the Assembly should reflect our society.”
“For that reason, I thank the Bill Office, OFMDFM and Members across the parties for their cooperation in bringing forward that very important law. <BR /> <BR />I have also sought to lead on issues such as marriage equality, transparency and environmental protection. That is why, although I go into the election confident but not complacent, I will be making the argument that we need to keep a Green presence in the Assembly and to increase it, because equal marriage, transparency and environmental protection are still works in progress in Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I hope that the naughty corner will be emboldened by having more Greens at the other side of the election, and I am confident that we will provide an effective opposition to whoever make up the next Executive.”
“One of my early victories was the number of people who contacted me when I made speeches to say that they felt for the first time that someone was representing their views. As someone who had previously felt that Northern Ireland politics did not reflect me, I take it as a privilege and a position of responsibility to articulate those views and to make the arguments for the policies and values of the Green Party in Northern Ireland. However, I was never satisfied just to be here. Being elected was not, in itself, enough, which is why, in December, when my private Member's Bill became law with the Children's Services Co-operation Bill being enacted, it was a very proud day for me and my party. We were able to say that we had promised change and had delivered it in an area as vital as children's services. It was a Bill about cooperation.”
“I would like to say that it has been a privilege to serve the people of North Down over the last five years. Further to that, I am proud to have represented the views of Green Party members and supporters across Northern Ireland, as currently our sole MLA.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. He will be well aware of the Green Party's support for an increase in the minimum age of criminal responsibility. Can he outline for us the harm that is being done to the children themselves and to wider society by those who resist a change to what is one of the lowest ages of criminal responsibility in Europe?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. He will be aware of the situation of Priory Integrated College: its proposal for a new build is locked in with a restructuring of the schools estate in Holywood. Should Priory be eligible for funding through Fresh Start, can the Minister give me any guidance as to whether that can be tied in with other infrastructure funding to ensure that the whole scheme is completed and that Priory does not lose out because it is tied in with other Holywood schools?”
“We continue to enshrine the need to define ourselves as unionists, nationalists or those like me who refuse and are simply labelled "Other", whether we accept the term or not. It is a system that, in fact, denies the cross-community parties, whose vote is cross-community and whose electorate is cross-community, a say in cross-community votes. That is undemocratic, and, as Mr McCallister pointed out, it is arguably in breach of human rights. <BR /> <BR />The Bill is a step in the right direction, but it is far from a great leap forward.”
“People are frustrated by the time that is wasted debating sometimes very good and worthwhile proposals — from my point of view, probably none are more important than the proposals for equal marriage for same-sex couples — and they see them voted down by petitions of concern despite the will of the House to pass them. Increasingly, the public understand what that blocking mechanism is, and increasingly they are frustrated by its use. <BR /> <BR />How many parties have gone into an election saying that they want to move Northern Ireland forward, to make progress or to take credit for continuing their role in the peace process? Yet we have an Assembly that instils within it the divisions that have caused the problems in our society.”
“The shame of that is that we face another Assembly term where we could see one Minister taking another Minister to court. We could see the unenviable prospect of a party in government voting against the Budget but staying in government or claiming, "That wasn't us. It was them", when one Minister does something unpopular, yet staying in government. It is those factors that undermine the performance of the Assembly and its perception in the eyes of the public. <BR /> <BR />The failure to at least reform petitions of concern — in my view, they should have been abolished — will cause dismay outside this Building.”
“<BR /> <BR />Whilst I congratulate the Member, I condemn the House. We had an opportunity to really improve governance in Northern Ireland, and it was an opportunity wasted. We wasted the opportunity to abolish the petition of concern. We wasted the opportunity to abolish community designation. We wasted the opportunity to introduce collective responsibility, and we wasted the opportunity to introduce a mechanism by which we can hold Ministers to account. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the fact that we will have the opportunity to form an opposition. Whether or not that is taken up in the next mandate, time will tell. I welcome the provisions on extra speaking rights, resources and positions for an opposition. However, we in the House have failed to implement some of the fundamentals of good governance, such as collective responsibility.”