Pat Catney
Lagan Valley · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“I am delighted that he will get his own private Member's Bill through, which will bring equality, again, within teaching. He had to do a huge piece of work on the back of that. <BR /> <BR />It makes me proud to be part of this Assembly.”
“I am excited for the future. I will go back to the Minister. I have done so twice and will do it again. I do not know how the relationships required by the Bill's cross-cutting nature will go or which Department will hold the powers that the Bill provides to ensure that period products are available as widely as possible.”
“I have done that with every single Member whom I have met out there and talked to. I thank Members across the Chamber for their kind words to me personally today. This is not electioneering, folks, but I will tell you this. As we walk out and face the general public, no one knows what way they are going to go.”
“When I started out, I did not know the whole process of where or how it goes, but I know the process now, and I know that there is a lot of work, including from the civil servants. Mr Deputy Speaker, I will go back to tell you about when I had the little pub next door to Churchill House.”
“I will not be much longer, folks. I want to say that, as I was coming down this morning, I had the radio on, and I heard about an art project that is going on in Belfast. This may well be my last opportunity to speak about the ring of steel.”
“There was a bit of toing and froing, and I did not know which Department was going to lift the Bill and take up the chalice, which some people may have thought was a poisoned chalice. I thank the Minister, Deirdre, for taking that chalice. It was brave and correct to do that.”
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“I believe that the public house sector can sell alcohol in a controlled atmosphere. The proposed reform will allow for off-sales and occasional licences, which is important and useful for getting access to sales. However, Hospitality Ulster's opinion that only a single pint should be allowed after a tour is outdated and fails to recognise where craft beers fit into the market. I say that as an ex-member and ex-chair of the Belfast and Ulster Licensed Vintners' Association, which became Hospitality Ulster, as was my brother. <BR /> <BR />Any kind of substantive access for Northern Ireland trade is stymied by the actions of the big multinational brewers. Hilden Brewery, our oldest independent brewery, has found that out to its cost.”
“COVID has hit bar owners hard. If we do not want to see more tombstones popping up, we need to change the surrender principle now. <BR /> <BR />Our licensing laws do not work for bars, but they also do very little to curb excessive drinking. In the bar, excessive drinking was bad for trade. For every one dangerously drunk person in your bar, 10 people can see that person and will not cross your door again. Bar owners do not strive for excessive drinking; the vast majority actively work to prevent excessive drinking. We have already heard recent statistics about the 65% of people who are drinking at home. Drinking occurs at home, but it is wrong to blame bar owners for that. <BR /> <BR />I spoke to someone the other day after the bars had closed, and he was an active pub drinker. He has not touched a drink since the bars closed.”
“I welcome any movement in the licensing laws for Easter. My income went out the door when I had to close on Good Friday. That said, any such movement will not be enough without a complete change to the licensing system. There will not be many bars left to take advantage of extended opening hours. In fact, the only industry that seems to do well as a result of the surrender principle are the supermarket off-licences because they buy the bulk of those licences. <BR /> <BR />I bought two extended licences in County Tyrone and brought them to Belfast where I opened the Laurel Glen Bar and the Portside Inn with them. So, at least I bought a licence and brought it back and was able to use it again in a public house. As a bar owner once put it to me, a supermarket off-licence is a tombstone for a recently deceased, independently owned bar.”
“The point is that they tried to relate to where they are. That was my general point in that regard.”
“Their winter warmer was a special beer of 8·9%, which was called 'Over and Out'.”
“You can go for a tour at Hilden and, at the end, you are allowed a small sample. The brewery should have the right to sell its products on its premises. That is what I want to say to the Minister. That would make such a great difference. <BR /> <BR />I want to turn to the growth of the real ale business and how it progressed in Belfast. I organised the first real ale that we had in the old Kitchen Bar, as John said, with CAMRA. I remember trying to find some different beers, and there was a brewery in England that named its beers after Second World War planes. One of them was called 'Spitfire', which was about 3·9% — believe me, it is all related, Mr Deputy Speaker — and it was a social drinking beer. They had a stronger beer named 'Hercules' after the transport plane that was used in the Second World War.”
“I am sorry, Mr Deputy Speaker. I will get to it now because it is all connected. <BR /> <BR />The Hilden brewery had great difficulty in getting its product into licensed premises. The two big brewers at that time were Guinness and Bass Charrington, which operated out of west Belfast. They had a monopoly because of the cost of licences for public houses and they bought up the franchises so that publicans could buy beer only from them. The Hilden brewery had to work as best it could with independent public houses in order to stock its product. <BR /> <BR />Nothing much has really changed. The situation is the same and is detrimental to the growth of those businesses. That little brewery in Lisburn can probably sell more beer in the South of Ireland market, but it cannot sell in the public marketplace here.”
“<BR /> <BR />From that, I go to where I live in Hilden. Across the road from my house is the Scullion's brewery. Ann and Seamus left and went to England, but they came back with their young family and bought the manager's house, as it was then, that was part of the thread factory at Hilden, which was one of the biggest factories in the world, employing 5,000 people. They opened their brewery, and I stocked their beer from the start. They gave their different beers local names such as Hilden Halt and Hilden Ale, and they named their Belfast Bap beer Barney's Brew after the baker, Barney Hughes. That ties into all that history.”
“<BR /> <BR />A family member is still involved in pubs, but I think that it is worth mentioning that my friend Terry Cross is building a state-of-the-art distillery on the outskirts of Lagan Valley. What he has brought out of the ground is an absolute credit to him. I recommend that everyone try to see that. Minister, I extend the invitation to you. It is worth seeing. He has three pot stills: the largest one is called Donard after the largest mountain in the Mournes; there is the middle one; and the little one is called Binnian. It is worth going to see. There is a gin still there as well. That is new and fresh out of the ground, and it is there on our doorstep, on the outskirts of Belfast. It involved quite a lot of money, but he would not have spent that money if there was not a market for it.”
“When I was young, every pub bottled its own Guinness. Bottled Guinness was the real ale; that which came in draught form later was not. I just want to give you the history. Pubs specialised in how they kept their Guinness at room temperature. That has all changed now, because the market, since the introduction of pasteurised beer, deems that it must be chilled and cold. I remember draught beers coming in. I remember trying to sell the single X that was on the counter. Again, there was a specialised knack to pulling that. I was very lucky, as I say. It was all about your time served then, when I started out; it was an apprenticeship. We had to cut back our spirits, our rum and our sherries, and we did our own bottling. That has all moved on, and, hopefully, it has moved on for the best.”
“You can call time on me any time you like, Mr Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />To start with, my family has been involved in the business for, as far as I can trace it back, about 100 years. We were involved with a little pub in Lisburn called the County Down Arms. In fact, that is where my mother first worked for her uncle when she came up from County Cavan. There have been many, many changes in the industry. We all know that change happens, and sometimes change is for the best. I have said before that at an early age — I was 15 — I was able to go to a great publican called Paddy Swale in Moira, where I worked in The Four Trees. It is great to see that the Hughes family, whom I went to see in Lisburn, are now manufacturing the RubyBlue spirit in Moira. <BR /> <BR />Again, there have been many changes.”
“Thank you for your answer, Minister. We need to try to help as best as we possibly can through our constituency offices. The Minister indicated at a hearing with the Committee for Communities on 30 September that dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic has understandably meant that other policy areas have received less attention. However, I hope that the Minister recognises that the 89,000 additional claimants for universal credit are largely related to the pandemic and that getting the new mitigations agreed and legislated for should be the Executive's priority. Hopefully, that will happen before Christmas.”
“My question is to do with the Mullaghglass site, Minister. Do you have any plans to prosecute those who are responsible? There may well be historic sites there, but there must also be some dumping going on that is creating those odours.”
“Minister, I hope that you will agree with me that an independent environmental protection agency would be the most appropriate body to monitor the implementation of the Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act.”
“Park-and-rides are one way to remove congestion. The Minister has already done great work to bring forward new services. Can she give an update on her consideration of a park-and-ride at Moira?”
“Members will all be shocked to learn that there are 350 acres of prime land in my constituency with the possibility of securing 5,000 jobs and delivering more than £300 million of investment. After years of indecision and countless millions squandered on plans that could not be agreed, surely now is the time to deliver at Maze/Long Kesh and create some prosperity for Northern Ireland — the place that we call "home".”
“Thank you. Work has already been done on creating and improving greenways, particularly the new one at Blaris. I am lucky to have a number of great cycle paths in my area. However, work and funding are needed to connect them to improve our cycle network so that it provides a viable alternative transport option. <BR /> <BR />Work must also continue to secure the use of Lagan Valley Hospital in a modern and effective health service. I welcome recent announcements on the use of that site. We now need to look at the access to the site and how it can be made fit for purpose to improve availability for patients in the future. <BR /> <BR />One of the biggest questions that we will face over the next 18 months is how we can secure jobs, innovation and enterprise in the face of the pandemic.”
“With proper funding, we can turn that into a first-class transport system that will ease road network pressures and help us to reduce our emissions. If we could look at combining that with an extension to the bus rapid transit (BRT), we could have a sustainable, economic reduction in cars on our roads and effective and affordable transport for the entire area.”
“In my area, great work has been done to bring forward plans for the Knockmore halt and to facilitate the extension of the train station and pathways in Moira.”
“Thank you. Speak to the Economy Minister. I agree that the private bus sector should be redeployed to help, but ask Minister Weir to do it. That is his job. That is his role. Look, I want to be productive and talk about what we are meant to be talking about. <BR /> <BR />We must continue to look at how extra budgetary mechanisms can be used to tackle effectively the issues of today. There is still at least a £70 million shortfall in the uptake of FTC funding. That is an issue that comes up every year. Furthermore, we must find ways of harnessing our borrowing powers to best serve our community. Those are only two areas in which we can make big changes. <BR /> <BR />It seems that more and more Governments are beginning to realise the benefits of the green economy and green infrastructure.”
“He has not come back to her on that, and he has not acted. School transport is a decision for an Education Minister to take. He perhaps needs to speak to his party colleagues about that. <BR /> <BR />We need to continue to do work to establish an effective fiscal council that will provide extra scrutiny of our Budgets and help the House provide more effective funding to our Departments.”
“Last night, I wanted to make a really positive speech today. I did not want to go over things that have already been debated and points that have already been well made. <BR /> <BR />Suffice it to say that no one could ever have imagined a year ago the position that we are in today, with the dire facts of the pandemic and the threat of no trade agreement with the European Union looming. I want to consider the opportunities we will have in the future, however. It is apparent that the Treasury is in no rush to act in the interests of the devolved Administrations, so it is up to us to find flexibilities in our Budget to best support the economy and public services here. <BR /> <BR />I note that 500 additional Translink buses were provided for schools. Minister Nichola Mallon wrote to Minister Weir about using private buses.”
“I am not privy to the goings-on at the Executive, but I know that, during the pandemic and with this Budget, the community wants us to have a united voice. I am afraid that a united voice has not been shown to me today. What I heard was destructive and dangerous. <BR /> <BR />As with the pandemic and these budgetary measures, what the Agriculture Minister came out with shows no united voice. I do not want to play orange and green politics.”
“I know that there is social distancing, but I am disappointed, after what I had to listen to from my fellow MLA from Lagan Valley, that there were only three on the DUP Benches as I rose to speak. His party's name has "Democratic" in its title, and that will inform part of my speech, if you will bear with me, Mr Deputy Speaker. I may not agree with everything that he said, but, as a democrat, I believe that he should at least have had the decency to stay and listen to our answers. <BR /> <BR />I wanted to be positive today. I wanted to start this speech in a positive way. I know that our people want our Executive — note the word "our" — to be united and to stand together and for us to show them as much support as we possibly can as they make difficult decisions.”
“This will mean Departments surrendering underspends early so that we can utilise as much as possible in the upcoming spending review, which should be the goal of the Budget process.”
“Although the Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs has said some ludicrous things in recent days, especially in my constituency of Lagan Valley, one thing that is absolutely true is that many of our businesses will not come back if there is a continuing cycle of lockdowns without more support in place. If we can push for greater flexibility to use capital underspends to help businesses, that can open funding streams and even borrowing potential to put support schemes in place whatever the future might bring. <BR /> <BR />Although I hope that we will get the accommodations needed from the Treasury, the Department must plan for how we can adopt our budgets if the Treasury does not move.”
“Where possible, I hope that the Minister will encourage spending programmes that this Chamber and the Committee can have proper scrutiny over. <BR /> <BR />One key area that we cannot escape is that of the difficulties that there have been in using capital expenditure this year. I welcome the initiative that the Minister has taken with the Finance Ministers of the other devolved Administrations to ask for increased carry-over of underspends going forward. However, more needs to be done to allow capital-to-resource transfer to deal with emergency issues in year.”
“<BR /> <BR />There are some areas that I hope to cover in the Budget debate, but there are a few technical points that I want to make. Although it may come up in the Budget debate later as it is not decided, one point that I will make is to steal the thunder of my Committee colleague Mr Allister, who is sitting at the back. There are still a number of those notorious black-box payments indicated in the Estimates. I know that a number of Departments have given notice of their intention to use sole authority going forward. I hope that, with our ability to legislate now restored, the Minister will see this used less and less. That is not to say that it should be eliminated. We cannot foresee every instance.”
“However, the Minister must now put the maximum effort into regulating the Budget process and bringing back a sense of normality to this process. This is not about the Committee trying to butt in or cause an issue. It is about recognising that we are yet to see the full impact of this pandemic as we look to the coming year, along with Brexit looming, and that regularising the Budget process can only allow the Committee and this Chamber to support the Department and the Minister during what I am sure will be a difficult Budget process. Having said that, I do welcome the fact that the Minister has brought forward this expenditure plan for the rest of the year, and I thank his team in the Department for the work that has been done to produce this Budget.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker, and thank you, Minister. I am sure that the Minister will note the approval of the Finance Committee to allow accelerated passage of the Budget Bill, but I know that the Minister does not take this for granted and that it is not a ringing endorsement of the level of scrutiny that the Committee has had in this process. When the further Vote on Account was brought forward, both in the Committee and in this Chamber, I asked that better opportunity for scrutiny be given to the Committee as we are talking about large sums of public money being spent and proper time and consideration must be given to their use. I know that the Minister agrees with me on that. <BR /> <BR />We all know the strain that the pandemic has put on many different government processes.”
“I have to get my glasses out. I can see the time I did not need them. Things are not working.”
“Consideration is being given to extending targeted rate relief to the local arts sector. Does the Minister agree that it is irresponsible to continue to rely solely on the ad hoc handouts from Westminster to address the structural challenges to Northern Ireland's economy that have been thrown up by COVID? What discussions has he had with the Minister for the Economy around developing an economic intervention programme to address the long-term impacts on job and business creation?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I commend the Member's effort on the Committee and what we try to do on it. However, when we speak about big-ticket ideas to help the Finance Department, we, as a Committee, should be bringing forward ideas. That is our role as well. I hope that the Member agrees with me that our job is not just to scrutinise figures. Collectively, we should be trying to bring forward ideas that will help the Finance Department to get us out of this.”
“Thank you, First Minister. Given that the restrictions come into effect on Friday, it is crucial that businesses have clarity. Will you commit to publishing the full guidance to businesses by the end of the day and outline the support that will be put in place?”
“I thank the First Minister for her answer. Does she share my concerns that, even if there is a deal by the end of the year, we are too far behind in implementing parts of the Northern Ireland protocol to avoid major disruption at the end of the transition period?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I thank everyone for their contributions. As the father of three children and the grandfather of three grandchildren, I think not only of those who find themselves taken away from their families but of the families left behind with the pain and the grief of wondering where their children are. That is why I say to all of you who have contributed that the message that we need to send out from the House today is one of zero tolerance.”
“Does the Member agree that we, as a community, in 2020 should have zero tolerance for those who commit such crimes and that all the help that we can possibly give as a community should be given to those who have suffered from this evil crime?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. Is his Department aware of an assessment of the impact on Northern Irish producers of the lowering of food safety standards for meat and poultry imported to the GB market, knowing the high standards that we have in Northern Ireland?”
“Thank you, Minister. There is no doubt that your strategy mentions the figure of 70%. On that basis, I think that, in this climate, that target is very ambitious. Will the Minister rule out any exploration for oil and gas in Northern Ireland, including fracking?”
“Minister, can you tell me how many redundancy notices your Department has received since March?”
“<BR /> <BR />As someone — I know that there are older Members — who is approaching 70, I think that life can throw most things at us. By the time that we are approaching 70, we have done that circle and have seen the joy and the sad parts of life, but to experience, or see a family member experience, a diagnosis of terminal illness, is something that you never get used to, no matter how long that you live. I ask the House to support the motion.”
“That is why I wholeheartedly welcome a move to the clinical judgement of our doctors. Such a move will also assist those with a more difficult medical diagnosis. We have all heard stories of the inability of benefit assessment criteria in general to deal with certain health conditions, so I hope that this brings some certainty and help to those in that situation. <BR /> <BR />The focus of our benefits system is all wrong. It should be about support to allow people to live their fullest life, to aid them to overcome barriers and to protect them from the challenges that the average person does not face. It should not cause a person to be degraded or to focus on what they cannot do. However, I know that that is a wider argument. To get rid of the six-month rule is a small technical change that could have a large impact.”
“You have assessment criteria that force people with a life-threatening condition who have been doing their best to live their life, despite their health problems, and who have adapted to all the obstacles and challenges in ways that we cannot imagine, to throw all that out the window and focus on a world of inabilities. I know that we have to have assessment criteria, but it is the most degrading process. <BR /> <BR />It is the same feeling that I have about the six-month rule. How can it not sicken anyone here that we ask those who are faced with the despair of a diagnosis of terminal illness and who may be doing their best to live their life, despite the diagnosis, to prove that they will die within six months in order to access vital support? No compassionate society could think that that was OK.”
“I also support this important motion. I cannot imagine the fear, despair and sadness that follows from a diagnosis of terminal illness. However, I have seen first-hand what a terminal illness can do to a person, how much support a person needs in that situation, and how quickly things can go from bad to terminal. That is why we must make access to support as simple, quick and easy as possible for anyone who finds themselves in that terrible situation. <BR /> <BR />I have a massive concern about how some of our benefits are assessed. Take PIP, for example.”
“I have yet to see them in real life. I have not been able to hold them and to look into the eyes of that child, who is part of the next generation of a wonderful family. Through the breakdown of guidelines as the result of them being unclear, it seems likely that Christmas joy will go by without me seeing my grandchildren. <BR /> <BR />I know that that is only one story in a large book of stories about sacrifices that have been made. That is why it is so important that the Executive come out united and directly say to people that they should stay socially distant, wear face coverings indoors and follow the guidelines. I ask you to support the motion.”
“If we do not act, we will all have many personal stories of those who have lost their livelihoods because of this virus and our inaction. <BR /> <BR />We must also look at the wider context. We have record levels of economic inactivity in Northern Ireland. We have Brexit looming at the end of the year. I know that it takes a big decision to divert more funds to support schemes, but, if that is not in place, the signs are clear: there may not be an economy to support. Of course, we must try to get back to some sort of normality as soon as possible. That is how we can help the economy. It is therefore important that we all follow the guidelines. Those guidelines must be clear and direct, and they cannot be undermined by the Executive. <BR /> <BR />On a personal note, during the year my third grandchild was born.”
“<BR /> <BR />A lot of positive work was done, and I welcome the wage subsidy scheme, but the number of workers supported will become fewer and fewer. The Finance Minister and the Economy Minister cannot ignore the projections that show over 100,000 people being out of work by the end of this year. That is at least 12% of our workforce, and it will overwhelmingly be our young and older workers who will lose their jobs. Just saying "over 100,000 people" almost sanitises the impact of that statistic. These are our friends, our families, our children and our grandparents. They are the ones who have been out during the pandemic working hard, serving in our shops, stacking shelves and serving in our restaurants and bars.”
“When COVID hit at the start of the year, we did not know what impact it would have, we did not know how long the original lockdown would last, and we did not know the massive impact that it would have on all our lives. Still, the Executive, to their credit, acted. They moved quickly to put support mechanisms in place. There were grants, rates holidays, tax breaks, and, yes, because we had to act quickly, some people were missed, but, because we acted, we managed to help and support a lot of our workers. <BR /> <BR />We are at an important moment. The statistics are clear. We are rapidly heading towards, if not a period of total lockdown, a period of heavy restriction. Now is the time to act, now is the time to put plans in place, and now is the time to make sure that no one is left behind without support.”
“Will the Minister confirm that our track-and-trace system runs on something a little more robust than Microsoft Excel so as to avoid any mistakes being recorded?”
“Thank you for coming to the Chamber, Minister. There has been no guarantee of funding for the employment and skills support in Northern Ireland that is currently funded by the European social fund. As yet, there is no clarity on how and when that funding will be replaced. What is the Department's understanding, in talking to the affected sectors, of the real pressures that they are under?”