Pat Catney
Lagan Valley · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“I am delighted that he will get his own private Member's Bill through, which will bring equality, again, within teaching. He had to do a huge piece of work on the back of that. <BR /> <BR />It makes me proud to be part of this Assembly.”
“I am excited for the future. I will go back to the Minister. I have done so twice and will do it again. I do not know how the relationships required by the Bill's cross-cutting nature will go or which Department will hold the powers that the Bill provides to ensure that period products are available as widely as possible.”
“I have done that with every single Member whom I have met out there and talked to. I thank Members across the Chamber for their kind words to me personally today. This is not electioneering, folks, but I will tell you this. As we walk out and face the general public, no one knows what way they are going to go.”
“When I started out, I did not know the whole process of where or how it goes, but I know the process now, and I know that there is a lot of work, including from the civil servants. Mr Deputy Speaker, I will go back to tell you about when I had the little pub next door to Churchill House.”
“I will not be much longer, folks. I want to say that, as I was coming down this morning, I had the radio on, and I heard about an art project that is going on in Belfast. This may well be my last opportunity to speak about the ring of steel.”
“There was a bit of toing and froing, and I did not know which Department was going to lift the Bill and take up the chalice, which some people may have thought was a poisoned chalice. I thank the Minister, Deirdre, for taking that chalice. It was brave and correct to do that.”
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“I thank the Member for giving way. I listen to the tone of the debate, and we are all in this together. That means those of us who were more fortunate and were able to make a good living out of the economy here through the Troubles. We need to realign our economy as well. When we come out of the pandemic, there will be opportunities to reboot the economy. I agree with the Member who talked about the hospitality sector. That sector is not stand-alone; it is key to the economy of the whole of the North of Ireland. If it goes down, tourism is down, hotels are down and thousands of jobs go with them. The point for Mr Nesbitt is that we are all in this together, and we need to shoulder the responsibility. Some of us are lucky. We are lucky that we can play —.”
“I know that there is ring-fenced funding to deal with the EU exit, but, given that we are fast running out of time, can the Minister assure us that that is not another black hole in our Budget that we will need to scramble to deal with in the autumn or wintertime?”
“We are now about to put a second Bill through by accelerated passage, with the hope of a further Bill being brought to the House in the autumn. How confident is the Minister that we can get ahead of the process to allow the important, high level of scrutiny that needs to take place in the Budget process? <BR /> <BR />Finally, I will mention the crisis that no one seems to want to mention any more: Brexit. I read a distressing document from the EU Commission that stated that the UK Government — all right, they have moved slightly — are yet to produce even a timescale for delivering the structures necessary to implement the Northern Ireland protocol.”
“As we know, there are still holes in our support during the crisis, particularly for sole traders and the self-employed, as well as the long process that will be required to allow our hospitality and retail sectors to rebound. How confident is the Minister that, as more funding is required to deal with the crisis, departmental funding approval in this Vote on Account will be enough to secure the budgets until the end of October? Early warnings of spending pressures will be vital to enable us to adapt to fast-moving problems. As the first in-year monitoring round is coming up in June, are there any early warning signs, Minister, that the Departments are concerned about? <BR /> <BR />Since we got up and running, we have been chasing our tails in the Budget process.”
“I note the Minister's rationale for choosing 80% of the proportion of the 2020-21 financial position to authorise to this Vote on Account. How confident is the Minister, given that this is only meant to serve the Departments until the end of October, that we are not creating massive financial stress for Departments for the last five months of the financial year? Everyone in the Chamber is aware of the financial stresses that will arise from COVID-19. I am pleased that the Minister has announced the extension of the rates holiday. I am also keenly aware that that announcement means that we have spent more than we have been given in COVID-19 funding.”
“It is a political point. We, collectively, pay tax into that pot, and our people across Northern Ireland are entitled to those benefits. It is no handout. It is not given to us; it is an entitlement of all of us collectively. I just wanted to make that point, Mr Deputy Speaker, because, sometimes, it is hard to listen to the political points coming across when we are trying to have a serious debate.”
“As my colleague has stated, the SDLP is broadly in support of the motion. I just want to make a point to Members across the House, who laud the benefits of the United Kingdom.”
“I thank the Minister for her statement. It is very encouraging indeed. Going forward, are there any projects in the Department that might be able to be rolled out quicker that would generate capital spend and could jump-start or boot the economy as it comes out of the crisis?”
“We need to get a solution, and the victims need to be paid. No more crocodile tears, and no more playing politics. Just do the right thing. My colleague Mike mentioned the bomb in the Abercorn; no one of my vintage could forget that. There are all these tragedies, whether it is a father, mother, brother or sister locking up a pub, a business or a shop late at night and being assassinated simply because they chose to do something else in their spare time or to try the best they could to bring the community together. Folks, we are making great progress. This needs to be launched. It needs to be delivered, and it needs to be delivered now.”
“I am ashamed, in a way, to be here debating this today. Again, I go back — I do not want to go on with you — to when I was very young and had a small public house on Donegall Quay in Belfast. In that bar, I saw every atrocity that happened, every customer who lost their mum, their dad or other loved one or was hurt, damaged or injured. When I look back, I look back not at dates but at the faces of those families. I was lucky and feel privileged to have grown up in Moira. I worked in a little bar there called the Four Trees, and I remember, among those early atrocities, there was a Sergeant Brown, God rest him, who was murdered in Rostrevor. As a young man, I found myself walking behind that coffin, and so many more have I walked behind since. <BR /> <BR />Folks, I do not care where this comes from.”
“You said it is for an individual Minister to decide whether to furlough workers. Would it not be for the Executive as a whole to decide?”
“We need to step up to the plate again, folks, because it is now worse than that.”
“Hospitality is an area that Northern Ireland has been able to grow in recent years. The Minister needs to consider the measures urgently, or the businesses that you see today will no longer be here and will not come back. <BR /> <BR />In my last few seconds, I want to say that my sister was born above a pub and she has reared her family there. I use that as one example. This has gone. They do not want it to go; they want to work. The main thing is that they did not ask to close; they were asked to. They had a viable business that they had worked hard for. We need to be sure that we can help them sustain this business and grow Northern Ireland. I am proud of Northern Ireland. I am proud of the people in Northern Ireland. I am proud of the support that I got through difficult times working behind a ring of steel in Belfast.”
“At the end of the Troubles, there was a package, and prosperity came from the tourism that started to flood into Belfast and all parts of Northern Ireland. That growth was slow, but it came. When those people came, the businesses on the front line were the small hotels, the bars, the restaurants and the coffee shops. It was there that they got the best asset that we have in Northern Ireland: our people. We have an asset here that is second to none, but they need the tools. They cannot be expected to fight this battle without a little help. What we have at the moment is good — I recognise that and thank the Minister and his Department — but more is needed. The current rent, rates and licensing system makes it impossible for a business to sustain itself at these low levels.”
“Small freight companies — again, they are not owned by big companies — make their money from the goods that they bring back and forth from trips to England and continental Europe. What help is there for them? <BR /> <BR />There is no mention of help for students. I welcome the increase in the student hardship fund, but it is not enough. Students who are already in debt due to large tuition fees are struggling at the moment with no way to earn extra money because everything is closed. Some are still tied into rental agreements for properties that they are not using. How can we support them? <BR /> <BR />Hospitality is an area that I know personally. I spoke a bit about it earlier. These are small businesses that people have grown. They have put their lives into their businesses and are proud of them.”
“They are the risk-takers in our community and they are the ones who are going to drive this economy, when we get out of this.”
“These are not big, huge businesses but small family-owned SMEs that are the backbone of the Northern Ireland economy. Another example is a small business, in Lisburn, which rang me, and has outgoings of £8,500 per month with no income. <BR /> <BR />Businesses with multiple locations in England can get a grant for each of their premises. Why is there not something similar here, in Northern Ireland? This is not a criticism. I am trying my best to see the pressures that the Minister and his Department are under but it is a cry for help because I am getting that cry and feeling it, as are the rest of us. These are people who are not afraid of hard work, folks. We all know that. They go into the uncertainty and take the risks.”
“I thank the Minister for making the £10,000 grants available to those with industrial premises below a net asset value (NAV) of £15,000, but we must look at those who have larger premises. There is nothing for them. I know the fear that those businesspeople have because they ring me — they ring us all — and they want to be there. The one thing that they need is certainty, but that certainty is not given to them and they are facing the cliff edge. If these businesses go down, they are not coming back, folks. <BR /> <BR />As I said earlier, my sister rang me last night. She and her husband have a pub in Belfast; it is a good bar, a good centrally located bar and they are finding it tough. They are finding it very difficult and they do not know what the future holds.”
“I can see the fisheries support, the discretionary payments, the community support scheme, direct payments to families, school meals, the small business grants, business rates holidays, COVID-19 pressures and the help that is coming from that — I think that this Budget represents about 10% of that but I am not sure — and the Prison Service and the storage. <BR /> <BR />It is understandable that the measures have to be very blunt to get to as many people as possible, and it is impossible to cover everyone right away. However, now that we are a few weeks down the line, the people who have been left behind by these measures must be considered, Minister. For example, industrial derailing, manufacturing and SMEs.”
“I thank the Minister and his Department for all the hard work that they have done at this time. I recognise the difficulties of working from home, the pressures and the anxiety over this pandemic. Like my colleague from north Antrim, we have all seen that rise in domestic violence and the cries for help coming through our offices. We, in Lisburn, know the great work that the PSNI are doing and I want to put that on record to try to see where we, possibly, can come out of this at the other end. <BR /> <BR />I want to thank the Minister for what he has already announced with regard to COVID-19.”
“<BR /> <BR />The review has been carried out, and it will be much fairer to get away from bricks and mortar and look at turnover. That is for the days ahead, and we will be able to debate such issues in the Budget debate. I have reservations and will reluctantly support the order.”
“As so many Members have said, I have no option but to support the order. I see the small reductions that are being made, but there are a lot of small businesses like my sister's, who rang me last night. She and her family have a very busy house and one pub in the centre of Belfast. They have no money and have used up whatever savings they had on the rates. The three-month rates holiday was welcome for them, but they are trying to come out of the current situation and they can find no way of sustaining their business if the lockdown continues much longer. There is no way that they will find the resources that they need if they have to try to operate a business through distancing in a public house, because that will not be possible.”
“I was able to talk to John and, as I say, he lit up. <BR /> <BR />I will miss John. I know there will be a time for the House to pay tribute to him, but I genuinely miss him. He was a good man. I knew him long before I ever went into politics; I knew him from the bar but that is neither here nor there now.”
“I thank the Minister for coming here today, and I thank everyone for their kind words about John Dallat. I saw John just last week; I went out to see him and was talking with him. I had to go out to see him simply because I was put on a Committee that he was on. When I went out to visit John he was not well, but he still had that fire in him. He and I were trying to plan a trip to Munich; I have a daughter who lives in Dachau and we were going to try to go over to follow-up on the terrible tragedy, which Mr Muir mentioned, of young Inga Hauser's murder. John was still up for the trip. The day that I was there was the 75th anniversary of the liberation of Dachau, which was the first concentration camp. It was in Germany, but it was the very first one and was the model for the rest of them.”
“Minister, I note your points about taxi drivers, and it is clear that you are doing all that you can to ensure that licensing and regulations are done as quickly as possible by your Department during these challenging times. However, there are still drivers out there who are struggling without any income. While that is not directly your responsibility, will you advise what your Executive colleagues are doing about it?”
“I agree with my fellow Member about those future problems. To add to that, we have taken the pension at 60 away from the women who were those childcarers. We now make them work until the age of 66. They were the carers in our society. They took up the slack and filled in. That was one reason why the SDLP pushed to have this included. Hopefully, the motion will pass and there will be a new legislative power. <BR /> <BR />Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker — thank you, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker.”
“<BR /> <BR />When we were at the talks to get Stormont up and going, this was a major ask. I welcome the motion that has come from across the Floor, but the SDLP tried everything and brought the issue to every stage of those talks. I was delighted to be there and part of that. <BR /> <BR />I want to be as quick as I can, but I want to highlight that, in Lisburn, we have an excellent social enterprise, Employers For Childcare, who do an excellent job. I welcome the recognition that access to good, affordable childcare is important to the local economy and what flows out of that when young parents are able to work. I agree that childcare plays a vital role in supporting children's development. We support the call for a childcare strategy and agree that it should be supported by legislation. We support the motion.”
“Ah, the Chief Whip. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the motion, which recognises the vital role that childcare plays in child development and in empowering parents who want to get into work, remain in work and progress in work. I have heard many young women Members speaking here today. When the first man has a baby, it will be the end of the world. We could not cope. It just stretches everything that we have. I speak as the father of four children. I found it nearly impossible trying to juggle having children and being in a working environment. My wife was a civil servant. Rosemary had to give up her job to raise our four children. I do not want that to happen to others. I want to empower young men and women who have a family so that they are able to hold on to their career.”
“I will have a word with that fella McCrossan when I see him”
“Minister, you are working on your Budget and trying to finalise it. We keep hearing about the shortfall in money that we have at the moment. Will that be bridged going forward?”
“It is just to let you know that, when you attack one of us, you attack us all.”
“Will the Member give way for a very small point?”
“I did not defend that sector at all. I stood here to inform the House of the good work that that sector does, and I stand here to state that I am up for change, that I am sure they are up for change and that I know that change is needed. Change will come about.”
“Do not always be trying to throw out the baby with the bathwater. There are good things. Let us all look at the good. As I said at the start, I support the motion as amended.”
“The Council for Catholic Maintained Schools (CCMS) receives about £3 million, with which it supports 450 schools. To me, that looks and sounds like value for money. It is an inclusive education enshrined in the Catholic maintained schools sector. There is a high quality of education and standards in Catholic schools along with excellent leadership. <BR /> <BR />I really am up for the debate about change, and I know change has to happen. I recognise the positive contributions made by integrated education, and I stand here to state that a review is needed. In fact, one of the early things that I got when I came here was on the Programme for Government, and there was an agreement right across all parties that we needed this Bengoa-type report in order to look into our education.”
“I support the motion and amendment. I thank our teachers, our headmasters, all the classroom assistants and even the lollipop ladies, although, because I have stopped running my grandchildren to school, I do not know whether they still exist. I thank all of them. <BR /> <BR />I put on record my thanks to Mr Baker, the permanent secretary, for the contribution that he made over the three years that the Assembly was not working. I remember that, as soon as we got it up and going, the Minister went out with me to visit a local school, where a school enhancement project was granted. I acknowledge and agree that change is needed. I remember that, until the 1980s, my parents and grandparents supported schools. <BR /> <BR />I want to put across a point on efficiencies across education.”
“I did up an extension to a lounge. Remember, all of that was happening behind our ring of steel. Anything that progressed Belfast and made change, Barney was there. I asked Barney to open that small lounge in The Kitchen Bar, and he turned up at the opening with all of his top boxers. <BR /> <BR />Just three weeks ago, at the funeral of my mother, the Eastwood family was represented at the church out in Lisburn. I extend my sympathies and those of all of the House to the family and the children. Barney lost a boy — a young man — and I do not want to bring that up to be sad. It caused him and the family great distress. I want to share my empathy and understanding of that grief and pass that on to all of the Eastwood family and all of his friends. I share in their grief.”
“I want to go back to when I first moved to Belfast in early 1974. I first got to know Barney Eastwood then, along with Alfie McClean, who also ran bookies' shops. Those were very dark times in Belfast, but I looked forward to their help and visits. They came into the bar, and no doubt they were talking business. Back then, the boxing was not as big a factor, but the boxing then started up, and that gave us great hope. Those of us who are of a certain vintage know where Belfast was at those times, and it meant a lot to be able to go to the Ulster Hall for some of those memorable nights and watch the boxers progress onto the world stage as they developed. I also think of his gym in Castle Street in Belfast. <BR /> <BR />I bought a small piece of an old factory called Ferguson's pie factory; I do not know if anyone here remembers it.”
“The figure is for across the island, Minister. Sorry.”
“I am sure that the whole House will agree that the Minister carries a heavy weight on his shoulders, and we would like to be able to give him whatever support possible. I am thinking of the homeless, and that is a cross-cutting issue with the Minister for Communities, who was here earlier. Has the Minister been able to consider the report from the HSE that said that the number of people who could become infected with COVID-19 could conservatively be put at 1·9 million following an outbreak? Does he believe that our health service will be adequately equipped? I do not say that as a form of scaremongering; I am saying that we should plan for the worst and hope for the best.”
“We will talk about COVID-19 later. I hope that the Minister is confident, maybe through the borrowing powers in clause 5, that there is scope in the Budget to deal with the pressures that a full outbreak would bring. Can emergency funding be given to the health service for more intensive care unit (ICU) beds? Could businesses hit by the quarantine protocol be given access to short-term loans? Is there scope for an emergency payment to workers who have lost earnings due to having to self-isolate? I welcome the Budget Bill as an opportunity for us to work together to the betterment of everyone, which is the job that we were all sent here to do.”
“We must consider revenue in the context of Reval2020, as my Alliance Party colleague said. I hope that the Minister will make sure that the regional rate takes Reval2020 into consideration so that businesses are not hit at both ends.”
“Most of the points that I was going to make have been made. I welcome the opportunity for us to pass the Budget Bill in these uncertain times. As I have said before, I hope that we can get to the stage of having multi-year budgets to provide greater certainty and security for all our small businesses. I thank the Minister and the Department for always having their door open and being readily available, despite their busy schedule. I also thank and say, "Well done", to the Deputy Chair of the Finance Committee, who stepped in for our Chairperson, who is away, and did an excellent job. I hope that our Finance Committee will be able to work alongside the Department and the Minister to bring about better scrutiny. We did not have much time to scrutinise the Bill, but we are where we are.”
“<BR /> <BR />I learned a lot during my visit to Greenmount; in fact, I do not think that there is much that I did not learn about sustainable dairy farming. I learned that I could not do what our farmers do. They are vital to our ongoing prosperity and must, where possible, be supported. That is why I ask the Minister to look again at the ANC scheme and find a way to support our farmers working in extreme hardship.”
“However, it is not sustainable to do that at the expense of our farmers, who are in great hardship. I think that a balanced way forward can be found that supports our farmers in areas of natural constraint as well as protecting the environment and the productivity of our farming sector. <BR /> <BR />Some 70% of all land in Northern Ireland is for agricultural use. As politicians, we give no certainty to our farmers, with conflicting stories coming every day about what the future of agricultural support will look like, about trade deals flooding our markets with low-cost, lower-standard food that our farmers cannot compete with and about how we will pay for that and help our farmers produce the food that we all need. Removing the support for areas of natural constraint will create another hurdle for our overworked farmers to jump over.”
“To then cut payments for areas of natural constraint for our farmers on the worst land with the poorest soil and the harshest conditions has to be a step too far for all of us. I also noted with alarm, while researching the motion, that, as the proposer stated, 70% of the land in Northern Ireland fell into the criteria of less-favoured areas. I know that has changed for ANC, but it is still an incredibly large amount of our agriculture industry that the loss of this income will impact on. <BR /> <BR />I understand the argument, particularly in a time of climate emergency, for our agriculture policy to promote and encourage environmental use of the land, whether that be through the growth of forests or allowing land to fall back into its natural habitat.”
“<BR /> <BR />There needs to be a better understanding of the impact that agriculture has on all our lives. It is not a stand-alone issue but one that integrates with all areas of life. That is why the impact of agriculture is important to consider when looking at the single policies of areas of natural constraint. In my view, removing that single policy would have a much wider detrimental effect on agriculture and on the whole of society. <BR /> <BR />The proposal also comes at what is one of the most difficult times for our farming industry in recent history. The uncertain effects of coming out of the common agricultural policy, farm incomes falling as much as 23% in the past year and a half and the growing impact of climate change have placed extraordinary pressures on our farmers.”
“As has been said, agriculture is a massive part of our economy, our landscape and our way of life. I have always considered myself a countryman, but, after I went to talk about sustainable dairy farming at Greenmount, I found my country credentials extended only to the odd céilí in an old farmer's barn somewhere. I gathered potatoes for Mrs Wilson, who, I think, was a relation of our Minister, and I learnt early on that it was better to go to the local publican in The Four Trees in Moira rather than be outside gathering potatoes or picking strawberries in the cold weather. I will always remember Mrs Wilson saying, "You might leave the house tired after your day's work, but you will never leave it hungry". I have good memories of that.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does the Member agree that paramilitaries still control communities through fear and exploitation? That is evidenced by the fact that, over the past year, the numbers of paramilitary shootings are up by 46%, paramilitary assaults are up by 9% and bombings are up by 12%. Meanwhile, arrests are down by 22%. Does the Member agree that strategies are failing and that three years of stagnation has not helped matters and has allowed paramilitaries to gain a stronger foothold in society?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. In my past business, I was involved with public houses. I cannot stress enough that people drank within that controlled atmosphere. Pub owners should not be labelled with all the ills of society. Most of the drink in question is cheap drink that is bought in supermarkets. People are fuelled long before they even go out for a night of socialising. I will make it plain. I will make this point as quickly as I can. You cannot lay all the ills of alcohol abuse at the doors of publicans or public houses.”