Pat Catney
Lagan Valley · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“I am delighted that he will get his own private Member's Bill through, which will bring equality, again, within teaching. He had to do a huge piece of work on the back of that. <BR /> <BR />It makes me proud to be part of this Assembly.”
“I am excited for the future. I will go back to the Minister. I have done so twice and will do it again. I do not know how the relationships required by the Bill's cross-cutting nature will go or which Department will hold the powers that the Bill provides to ensure that period products are available as widely as possible.”
“I have done that with every single Member whom I have met out there and talked to. I thank Members across the Chamber for their kind words to me personally today. This is not electioneering, folks, but I will tell you this. As we walk out and face the general public, no one knows what way they are going to go.”
“When I started out, I did not know the whole process of where or how it goes, but I know the process now, and I know that there is a lot of work, including from the civil servants. Mr Deputy Speaker, I will go back to tell you about when I had the little pub next door to Churchill House.”
“I will not be much longer, folks. I want to say that, as I was coming down this morning, I had the radio on, and I heard about an art project that is going on in Belfast. This may well be my last opportunity to speak about the ring of steel.”
“There was a bit of toing and froing, and I did not know which Department was going to lift the Bill and take up the chalice, which some people may have thought was a poisoned chalice. I thank the Minister, Deirdre, for taking that chalice. It was brave and correct to do that.”
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“Minister, I hear what you say. Many in the House and beyond are concerned that your predecessor took action that was not proportionate with the security advice received from the PSNI. Can you confirm that, in line with the police assessment, staff will return to work to undertake their important roles, minimising the disruption caused by Brexit?”
“I welcome the commitment from the Irish Government to invest in the all-island infrastructure. I note that, at the recent NSMC, funding was confirmed for the Ulster canal, which runs through my Lagan Valley constituency. Can the Minister provide an update on the Executive Office's commitment to the Executive's funding of flagship projects, as promised by New Decade, New Approach?”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. On the day that Minister Poots has had to remove staff from the harbour because of the fear of violence, a fear that was brought on because of tensions stoked by the Bill sponsor's remarks, I hope that he reflects on how he has worked democratically to bring through legislation that will actively improve this place. Maybe, just maybe, he will aim for that approach in the future.”
“You cannot demand that Sinn Féin fully engages with your legislation while calling on unionists to block any EU-related policy with no regard to its content. You do not, as he has done regarding the Northern Ireland protocol, rile the public —”
“I am hopeful that the improvements that the Minister's amendments made to the Bill will make it solid, workable legislation. <BR /> <BR />I have enjoyed the debate. This is what we are elected to do. We identify the issues, and we debate the merits — or not — of legislation and the specific provisions of that legislation. We can all strongly disagree with each other, as we often do, but we come here to have an honest debate in a democratic and open way. I know that the Bill's sponsor understands that, as I have watched him do that with some skill on the Finance Committee. That is what makes the sponsor's inflammatory remarks in the media that I have seen lately all the more disappointing. He has shown, through this process, how to engage: you have a sensible debate on the issues.”
“There are parts of the Bill that we felt were unnecessary and unwelcome, and we have voted against significant parts of it. We made a careful decision, on balance, that certain reforms should be legislated for, and we have moved forward on that basis. Nor does the legislation cover all the reforms that are required. Sir Patrick Coghlin did not include in his report that this is where the only change is needed. As I said, we will be happy to engage with the Minister on future reform in the same open-minded way in which we engaged with this Bill. <BR /> <BR />The drafting of the Bill has been challenging. I am thankful that the Department engaged with the clauses at Further Consideration Stage. We all know the perils of clunky and unworkable legislation, so it was right for the Department to engage to improve the Bill.”
“We have all seen the examples of bullying and unsavoury behaviour of Ministers and special advisers in Westminster, where behaviour is controlled by guidance, so I hope that the provisions in the Bill will cut out the possibility of that behaviour here. <BR /> <BR />Let me be clear: the SDLP has not voted for the Bill just because we feel that public opinion requires it.”
“On the back of RHI, and countless other scandals, it should be clear to everyone here that the public are demanding something different, and this legislation is tangible action towards that. <BR /> <BR />That is not to say that the focus of the Bill is, or should be, on Civil Service reform. Reforms are required, and future reforms will come forward. However, I am pleased that some of the provisions, such as those on criminalisation, which would have had a large impact on the Civil Service, have been toned down. At the same time, through amendments, the Bill's focus on the actions of Ministers and special advisers has been further solidified, and that is to be welcomed.”
“Public opinion on this place and the work that it does — or, more correctly, does not do — is dire. That is why engagement with the legislation was so important. We must show that we are willing to change, willing to move forward and willing to learn from past mistakes. <BR /> <BR />There has been a lot of talk about the need for this legislation, as the wider reforms in it cannot be produced by codes and guidance. It is true that the Civil Service argued that codes and guidance were adequate. There are areas where that is undoubtedly the case, and I know that the Minister is working on a number of those areas. It is also true that legislation is a blunt tool; it is not a vehicle for actively changing culture. However, legislation has always highlighted how a culture has changed.”
“I was bit mesmerised by the gentleman from South Down, my neighbour from Moira, Mr Wells. I know that you are in the naughty corner, but is there a chance, if you believe all the opinion polls, that you might join Jim's party? I doubt it somehow. Stay independent, all right? <BR /> <BR />Broadly speaking, my party and I have supported the intentions of the Bill. We have engaged with its clauses and provisions throughout the Committee Stage and during its stages in the Chamber. We had reservations about certain aspects of the Bill, and, although it is not perfect, the Bill's sponsor has worked to remove some of our deepest concerns. That is the position that I feel any right-minded Member must take towards the Bill. You cannot just deny the need for reform that the Bill aims to make.”
“Minister, given that you have acted quite quickly to ensure help to drivers and that further assistance will now be provided, what discussions have you had with the Economy Minister regarding DFE support for taxi drivers and operators?”
“I welcome what the Minister is trying to do, but I make the plea here for zero tolerance in the same way that we have for drink-driving.”
“I also welcome the statement and thank the Minister for bringing it forward. People will find themselves in a very serious situation if they use a mobile phone while driving in their car. As stated, the fine of six points, as well as the monetary fine, is far outweighed by the consequences of someone ending up in an accident where there is injury or loss of life. There is no way back from that, and those are the real consequences. People should think of that before they lift their phone in a car. <BR /> <BR />I stand here because, when I was 21, my younger brother Gerard — God rest him — lost his life in a motorbike accident on the Airport Road when he was 19. There were no mobile phones then, but I know the devastation that that caused to our family.”
“Thank you, Minister, for coming here today and presenting your statement, which I welcome. Given that CCEA prioritised the algorithm over the well-being of our children and young people, will you today promise the House a full, independent review of CCEA, its processes and its leadership team? Our young people should not pay the price for CCEA's mistakes.”
“All of us, including our mums, our dads, our brothers, our aunts and our uncles, put girls into those institutions for no other reason than they had made a little mistake. I therefore ask the First Minister, the deputy First Minister and all of us here not to play politics with this. We must get to the truth as it is meant to be got to, but we must also bring the healing hand that is required. We can bring that healing hand together, especially in this centenary year of the foundation of Northern Ireland. That is a goal for all of us to unite behind.”
“First Minister and deputy First Minister, I thank you for bringing this very difficult statement to the House. I am thinking of women who are 50 or 60 years of age with children who have gone out. We have to look at this as a societal problem that happened simply because people were worried about their next-door neighbour seeing their young daughter with a swollen belly. Daughters were then sent to those places to be out of sight and out of mind. I beg every Member in every political party not to play politics. We must get the truth out and give help where it is needed. <BR /> <BR />First Minister, there are young women — they are older now — who went into the homes but do not want their name to be out there, and we have to accept that. This is a societal problem. This was the way we were, folks.”
“As I said at Consideration Stage, I understand the importance of clause 13 and the need for information to be provided to the House for scrutiny in a timely manner. We all have clear examples of what should not be done: for example, when we debate health regulations that are already a month out of date. This past year, however, has shown us that we can never be sure what is around the corner, and legislation must, as far as is possible, deal with all scenarios. Our amendment No 45 would allow for the scrutiny that is needed, as well as the flexibility. Again, this is about the Bill being able to allow for the normal functioning of political life while creating the reforms necessary.”
“<BR /> <BR />On the new clause proposed by amendment No 34, we welcome the movement that the Bill's sponsor has made on the criminal penalty. That was a sticking point for us as well as for the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission. I am still concerned about the provision, as it will impact on the fast-paced way in which communication occurs in this day and age. I fear that it may be too easy to fall foul of the clause through zero fault. It therefore creates an undue burden. <BR /> <BR />I want to speak to the amendments standing in my name and that of Matthew, even though some of them will not be moved. Amendment No 21 is adequately covered by amendment No 22, which the Minister tabled, and therefore does not need to be moved. Amendment No 45 would allow for an extended timescale in clause 13.”
“Most of the amendments strike that correct balance and will add to and improve the functioning of the Bill. <BR /> <BR />I welcome the Minister's amendment No 22 to replace clause 6 and thank him for the clarity that he has given. We must be clear about what constitutes a relevant meeting and an official ministerial decision. Ambiguity could lead to inaction, which goes against what the Bill is trying to achieve. The amendment gives clarity, so it is an improvement. <BR /> <BR />I am happy to support the amendments on lobbying. They allow for the reforms needed and set out how the provisions will operate in real-life terms. That should allow for better functioning of the provisions and an improvement in impact.”
“The provisions must allow for the effective functioning of government and must not prevent that by creating an environment of restrictions, which require so much time and energy in order to adhere to noting those functions.”
“The group 2 amendments speak to the key reforms that are required in government. They concern reforms of how meetings take place, how they are recorded and how information is provided for those meetings. They address requirements on who must be in attendance at meetings so that there is optimal transparency. They also address reforms of lobbying so that the public can be assured of complete fairness in Ministers' decisions, reforms in how technology is used and provisions for the suitable use of computers and data. It is important, however, that we strike the right balance. The provisions must be effective in promoting reform and transparency, but they must not be cumbersome.”
“The amendments in this group are largely technical, so I see no issue with them. I welcome the clarity brought by amendment Nos 4, 5 and 8. Those amendments should be made, as they allow for the Bill to function more clearly in real life. Amendment Nos 16, 17, 48 and 49 address commencement, which was a concern for some. Each amendment should allow for the provisions to come into force in an acceptable but realistic time frame. As I said, most of the amendments are technical and provide clarity. I will speak to the amendments on administrative reform and accountability later.”
“It would be a poor decision to reject the Bill just because of the person who is sponsoring it. That said, those who engaged fully with the process will know that the amendments at each stage have made a positive contribution and will improve the functioning of the Bill. I thank the Bill sponsor for his willingness to listen to Members' concerns. A lot of his amendments sought to address many of those concerns. That positive attitude has gone a long way towards finding consensus. Who knows? Maybe the Member is softening in his old age”
“It is a culture that must be rooted out from structures that must be reformed. Although there are disagreements on how that should be done, there is no disagreement on the fact that it must be done. <BR /> <BR />The issue of whether the changes that the Bill would make should be implemented through a private Member's Bill has been raised at each stage. Some have suggested that as a reason to vote against the Bill in its entirety. I agree that legislation must be properly formed, and poor legislation leads to poor outcomes. Although I have many disagreements with the Member on policy, there is a saying about broken clocks. The Bill sponsor has shown himself to be well versed in all the detail required to create sound legislation, the meaning of which would be unnecessarily debated for years to come by — dare I say it? — overpriced lawyers.”
“I enjoyed the work that was done at the Committee Stage of the Bill and being able to take an in-depth look into the impact of each clause. It is clear — I suggest that no party here will disagree — that there is a responsibility on all of us to restore the public's confidence in these institutions. Many will point to occasions when we failed to do that, but we have another opportunity in how we look at the Bill and the important reforms that it is trying to bring in. The Bill speaks to the heart of how this place operates, how Ministers interact with Departments and the Chamber, how special advisers fulfil their role without stepping over boundaries and how this place can operate in a transparent and effective way that the public can have faith in. We all know that that has not been the case in the past, and it goes further than RHI.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I am on the Finance Committee and noted that its members from Sinn Féin never engaged with the rest of us on the Bill to try to make it better. Some of that fault therefore has to lie with your own party.”
“I thank the Minister for coming today. I was not here yesterday. I trust that his health is getting better. Not to put his blood pressure up, but I wish him a speedy recovery for what comes in for him. <BR />I see that the Council noted the work that had been carried out to prepare for the end of the transition period and agreed to further investigations of the potential for cooperation to address specific challenges. I noticed that, in the news, the Minister talked about food shortages. What is the Department doing to look at new supply lines so that that nonsense does not happen?”
“Are you, Minister, committed to that funding on a multi-year basis to ensure that there is maximum flexibility and impact for Northern Ireland's voluntary and community sector?”
“Minister, it is good to hear that you were in west Belfast this morning meeting with the Footprints Women's Centre, which does a lot of work with the Atlas Women's Centre in Lagan Valley. What consideration has been given to targeting the fund at specific groups to help in the area of mental health, particularly in our youth services?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. The most important thing that businesses need is certainty. The House can supply plenty of that if it comes together and agrees on the economic policy that most of us are trying to get out there in order to deliver for our businesses.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. I have brought this up in the House before; there is a railway line between Lisburn and Antrim that has been mothballed. Over the past 20 years, at least £20 million has been spent on it. At its closest point, that line is within 400 yards of the International Airport. It could be linked up to the City Airport. There should be a united front to get that line open to serve the local community.”
“— different strategies. Any vision for economic recovery will rely on collective persistency. The Department for the Economy —.”
“The Executive have an opportunity to work with the business community and councils to consider —”
“While Belfast is now a super-connected city, digital infrastructure outside the city lags far behind. <BR /> <BR />The COVID-19 crisis provides Northern Ireland with an opportunity to renew the commitment to address the climate emergency. The pandemic has led to changing attitudes towards outdoor spaces and increased demand for green spaces, cycling and exercise. Yesterday, the Minister for Infrastructure spoke to that point with her comments on the potential for inland waterways and canals to fulfil that need. <BR /> <BR />The pandemic has also rapidly changed the way in which we work, travel and use towns and cities. Those changes provide opportunities to develop a more resilient economy through climate-friendly policies that make best use of the city centre, public transport and tourism.”
“That leads to skills shortages, which reduce the growth potential of local firms, deter investors from locating here and limit productivity, growth and competitiveness. For individuals and families, low skills levels also mean that Northern Ireland has the highest percentage of low-paying jobs in the UK. <BR /> <BR />We must also commit to the programme of investment in infrastructure that underpins economic growth. Northern Ireland is held back by long-term underinvestment in key infrastructure. Congestion and pollution demonstrates the need to reduce our reliance on cars through investment in public transport, along with walking and cycling routes. Water and sewerage infrastructure is near or at capacity in many places, limiting new development and raising environmental risks.”
“<BR /> <BR />In addition, we must identify the sectors that have been disproportionately impacted by the pandemic. Sectors with large numbers of low-paid roles are more likely to have employees who had been furloughed and lost their jobs. That includes demographics that faced pre-pandemic inequalities. Emerging UK studies indicate that women; young people; black, Asian and minority ethnic individuals, and people with a disability are at particular risk of the adverse social and economic consequences of COVID. <BR /> <BR />Turning to the other areas that were specifically covered in the report, it is clear that the Executive should commit to the transformation of skills. Northern Ireland's workforce has, on average, a lower level of educational attainment and skills compared with other UK regions.”
“In contrast, employment in the rest of the UK is more concentrated in higher value added sectors, such as professional services, ICT and financial services. <BR /> <BR />Northern Ireland's low productivity is linked to low levels of skills and historical difficulties with skills gaps in the employment market. There is a shortage of people with professional and industrial qualifications in the labour market. In contrast, Northern Ireland has a relatively high proportion of university graduates. However, the subject mix of graduates is not always proportionate to labour-market demand, with an oversupply in some areas. As a result, graduate skills may be underutilised in the economy, and lower-skilled workers may be pushed down the employment ladder.”
“This is the second important report that we have seen from the Committee for the Economy in as many weeks. I thank the Committee and officials for their good work. <BR /> <BR />In order to build an adequate recovery from the pandemic, we must admit to long-standing issues with the economy. As has already been stated, productivity in Northern Ireland is 15·6% below the UK average. Low productivity puts significant constraints on growth in Northern Ireland, with knock-on effects on levels of investment and innovation. Low productivity feeds through to individuals and families through lower incomes and fewer opportunities for quality jobs. Northern Ireland has a much larger concentration of employment in lower-paid sectors, such as agriculture, retail, and health and social care, than the UK average.”
“As an ex-employer myself, I thank the Member for his answers so far. When was the last time that the Commission surveyed staff for their views on working conditions at the Assembly?”
“Will the Minister provide a breakdown of the number of businesses that the money has already reached and give examples, if possible, by council area?”
“It is not a normal activity for a lot of our community, and it is certainly not a burden that should be allowed at a time of grief. <BR /> <BR />I do not know whether this is a conflict of interest, but I said at the Finance Committee that I am a member of the credit union in Lisburn. On Friday morning, I met Atlas Women's Centre, which is across the road from our credit union. A crowd of people was waiting to get in. That shows that it is much needed and much welcome in our community. <BR /> <BR />The current limit has had a great impact on the operations of our credit unions. I thank the credit unions for their support for the increase as well as for the good work that they do in general to support our communities at this difficult time.”
“It is certainly sensible to increase the limit in order to allow families a small bit of relief at the most difficult of times. <BR /> <BR />Furthermore, the cost of accessing probate put it out of reach for some of our low-income families. That is not fair, and it should be tackled in the wider context of access to our justice system. In addition, the time that it takes from the application to the granting of probate can be lengthy, which can add stress and worry for families and create financial difficulties for beneficiaries as funeral costs, which I mentioned, mount up. That situation has been exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic, with getting access to solicitors to effect probate and to court proceedings incredibly difficult. It should also be noted how stressful it can be going to the courts.”
“I also welcome the motion. Although the proposed change through order is small, its impact should not be understated. A death in the family is a time when we should come together to grieve, support each other and celebrate life; it is not a time to have the added worry about financial difficulty or long and difficult court proceedings. <BR /> <BR />The Assembly has, rightly, increased the limit of funds that can be released by certain organisations without probate or another proof of title in order to allow families to cover pressing costs like funeral expenses. However, the last increase was 16 years ago. Without going too far off the point, I will say that the cost of funerals is spiralling and has become a burden to everyone, regardless of wealth.”
“Minister, thank you for your statement. I live on the towpath, and it is a real asset. I was on it yesterday on my new electric bike, which you also made legal. <BR /> <BR />I noted the increase in the capital budget that was provided to Waterways Ireland. Will the Minister tell us more about why that was provided?”
“How will that be measured by the new Procurement Board? How will it measure success?”
“It may be cumbersome for Departments to come to the Assembly before every bid is submitted. Could that be done retrospectively to allow for the scrutiny that is required while keeping the process of monitoring rounds moving efficiently?”
“<BR /> <BR />I turn to Mr Frew's amendment No 23. I know what the Member is trying to achieve with the amendment and of his dedication to open decision-making. I agree with his desire to have more scrutiny of monitoring round bids. My issue, again, is with the operation of the clause. Many departmental budgetary pressures are time-sensitive, and the whole point of monitoring rounds is to allow Departments to act quickly and to give them the flexibility to deal with in-year pressures.”
“<BR /> <BR />Amendment No 21 is important in providing a statutory footing for the duty of Ministers and Departments to provide information to Committees and to allow for greatly enhanced scrutiny. In addition, as the Bill's sponsor will know from sitting on the Finance Committee, the clause will enhance the efficiency of the work. I am no expert on Committees. The Finance Committee is the first Committee on which I have served, but I find it a good and constructive Committee. Much of the information that we require is provided to us. There are times when the process of getting that information is slow, but I think that that tends to be the case for all Committees. Information should not have to be chased up repeatedly, and the amendment will, I hope, reduce the number of unnecessary delays.”
“That will allow it to come to reasoned, sensible decisions that are based on sound evidence rather than political whim. <BR /> <BR />I support clause 5. It is right for Ministers to fall under the same complaints procedures as MLAs; it would be ridiculous for them not to be included. However, I welcome the amendments tabled by the Bill sponsor to add protection against frivolous and vexatious claims. We have only to look at some of the statistics from the Local Government Commissioner for Standards, which show that around 50% of complaints against councillors come from other councillors, to see how the system could be abused rather than used for its intended purpose.”
“From the outset of my comments on this group of amendments, I give my full and firm support to the concept of Departments and Ministers having greater accountability to Committees in the Assembly. <BR /> <BR />Although I disagree politically with the Bill's sponsor on many issues, one of the more interesting aspects of daily life here since the Assembly was restored and one of my permanent likes is watching him hold Departments to account. I am sure that permanent secretaries have a treasure chest of war stories of coming up against him; it is a task that holds a suitable level of trepidation. That being said, there is a clear need for greater accountability and scrutiny to allow cleaner, more honest government and to restore the public's faith in this place.”