Pat Catney
Lagan Valley · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“I am delighted that he will get his own private Member's Bill through, which will bring equality, again, within teaching. He had to do a huge piece of work on the back of that. <BR /> <BR />It makes me proud to be part of this Assembly.”
“I am excited for the future. I will go back to the Minister. I have done so twice and will do it again. I do not know how the relationships required by the Bill's cross-cutting nature will go or which Department will hold the powers that the Bill provides to ensure that period products are available as widely as possible.”
“I have done that with every single Member whom I have met out there and talked to. I thank Members across the Chamber for their kind words to me personally today. This is not electioneering, folks, but I will tell you this. As we walk out and face the general public, no one knows what way they are going to go.”
“When I started out, I did not know the whole process of where or how it goes, but I know the process now, and I know that there is a lot of work, including from the civil servants. Mr Deputy Speaker, I will go back to tell you about when I had the little pub next door to Churchill House.”
“I will not be much longer, folks. I want to say that, as I was coming down this morning, I had the radio on, and I heard about an art project that is going on in Belfast. This may well be my last opportunity to speak about the ring of steel.”
“There was a bit of toing and froing, and I did not know which Department was going to lift the Bill and take up the chalice, which some people may have thought was a poisoned chalice. I thank the Minister, Deirdre, for taking that chalice. It was brave and correct to do that.”
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“Minister, I also want to thank the front-of-house staff, the hospital staff, the doctors, the nurses, the porters and all who are there doing a great job, but I also want to thank all the people who find themselves in businesses that will be asked to do all these checks. I ask all of us to send out a message that there is no need to give anyone abuse, especially those young people at the front of house. They will be doing whatever is passed in here today, and they will do their best. I know of pubs where they have been abused, and I know of pubs — I can quote them to you — where damage has been done to windows and doors and where staff have been given abuse. <BR /> <BR />Despite what I have said, I always believed that, if my doors were open and customers were able to come in, I had a chance of trying to make some money.”
“The pandemic is worldwide, and we are suffering from it greatly here.”
“People who went through them into the city centre were searched, but only four people lived in that square mile. There was the caretaker of the Masonic lodge in Cornmarket and his wife, and the other two were my mother and father above The Kitchen Bar. <BR /> <BR />In all the businesses, those were the only two in which people lived, but they carried on. They did their best to keep their doors open. We all remember when awful tragedies happened — that is a debate for another day — there were signs that stated, "Business as Usual". They tried to pick themselves up out of the rubble or the shooting that took a loved one, to reopen and get going again. <BR /> <BR />Given that context, I made the shortest speech that I could today to condense that to see what we are going through now.”
“Those loved ones were young ones leaving Northern Ireland on the £20 passage to Australia. They got the boat to Liverpool and a train to Southampton and set off. When they were saying cheerio on the docks, they thought that they would never see their loved ones again. They were 100% convinced that they were saying goodbye. <BR /> <BR />I want to move from there to when I moved to where my parents were, at The Kitchen Bar. I am telling these stories simply to remind us that we had hard times, and we have come through real hard times. Belfast, back then, was surrounded by what some called the ring of steel. There were two gates, one at High Street, which was open 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and one at Castle Street, opposite the City Hall, that closed at 6.00 pm.”
“In 1976, I was 22. I left the rural security of Moira to buy a little bar, down by the docks in Belfast, called the Liverpool Bar. I want to speak for a couple of minutes on bars and the problems that family and friends who still work in that business tell me about. <BR /> <BR />The Liverpool Bar was at the bottom of Donegall Quay where it touches Corporation Square, in the shadow of the Belfast Harbour Commissioners' office. There used to be two boats that sailed from there, one from Belfast and one from Liverpool, and they crossed in the Irish Sea. One was called the Ulster Prince and the other the Ulster Queen. <BR /> <BR />On my very first day and night in the Liverpool, I witnessed something that shocked me. On the shore, families were coming down to say cheerio to their loved ones.”
“Will you give me just a wee point of order? Just to clarify —”
“Thank you, Minister. Minister, can you explain the rationale for not ring-fencing the green growth fund? Surely the importance of the issue, and the huge amount of work required to meet our net zero targets, would warrant the ring-fencing of that fund, bearing in mind that we said that health was a priority, and I am sure of the 2%. What work has your Department done in order to find that 2% from Departments? This is a missed opportunity for green growth.”
“Thank you, Minister. Will you assure the House that lessons will be learned from this whole, sorry affair and that those lessons, as and when they are learned, will eventually be applied to the solutions?”
“My question is similar. It is about cybersecurity as we come up to Christmas. As we look at how vulnerable our businesses are to cyberattacks, is there any special help that your Department may be able to offer to those that find themselves most at risk?”
“Owners of licensed premises have written to me to inform me that they have received threatening letters from your Department about not enforcing the rules. I am not sure whether that is 100% correct, but all help should be given to licensed premises so that they can open safely, in accordance with the rules as laid down. Minister, do you agree that the only way in which to keep those businesses open this Christmas is to do all that we can to prevent the spread of the virus, including promoting the roll-out of booster vaccines and the full use of domestic COVID certificates?”
“I have a duty to my children and my grandchildren to drive forward ways in which we can tackle issues like congestion and air quality and to ensure that our places — our towns and villages — are cleaner, greener and more accessible. We can create a Moira for all. I look forward to the Minister's response and to working with her and with colleagues in the time ahead. <BR /> <BR />Thank you, Minister. I know that the earlier debate went on longer than it should and that you have a young family, but that is what is at the heart of Moira: the number of young people who want to live there and call the place where I was lucky enough to grow up "home".”
“The Minister knows that I welcome her vision for rail travel and that I will take full advantage of her ambitious programme to make strong representations to enhance our connectivity across Lagan Valley, beginning by looking at existing infrastructure, like the Knockmore line, which I have campaigned for a long time to reopen. I know it inside out now.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. I am trying to portray that this cannot be done as a single issue. It has to be done collectively, and it has to be done with great planning and care. Some 400 to 500 and possibly up to 700 cars will be able to be removed off that road and will be able to park. If people are not going through the village and are not then turning left and right on their way through, I think that all of that together will be the solution, Robbie. <BR /> <BR />Yesterday, the Minister announced her public consultation on a historic and ambitious all-island strategic rail review. That programme is aimed at connecting our communities across the island through the cleaner and more sustainable travel mode of rail.”
“I may be on the older side in the House, but I like to think that I am young at heart, so I am open to new ideas and ways that the Minister might think of doing this. Earlier this year, I was delighted to welcome our SDLP Minister to Moira's train station as she announced the plan for hundreds of new park-and-ride spaces, allowing more and more people in Moira to commute and use a cleaner and more sustainable form of transport.”
“<BR /> <BR />Moira, like many parts of Northern Ireland, suffers from unacceptable traffic congestion, which has an impact on local residents, businesses, schools, air quality and the lifespan of existing infrastructure. Like me, colleagues from across Lagan Valley will want to find the best solution to alleviate that congestion. A bypass could be the solution, and I would like to hear from the Minister on whether the merits of that have been considered by her Department. I look forward to hearing her views. If possible, could she consider an appropriate scheme to alleviate the congestion? <BR /> <BR />The Minister will know from my frequent and many representations to her that I am keen to say that facilitating the motor vehicle is not the only way to find solutions.”
“I left school at 15 and went straight into an apprenticeship in the Four Trees in Moira, there on the main street, under the tutorship of Paddy Swale, one of the best bar persons I have ever come across. A place in my heart belongs in Moira, and I was very lucky to grow up with the demesne as my playground. It was a very safe, caring neighbourhood. Many a time with my fellow MLA, I went down to the Wilson's, along with Edwin's cousins. It was just a beautiful place for us to grow up, and I can see why people want to live there. It is a privilege to stand here with the trust and the confidence of my neighbours to speak on their behalf.”
“I will start by thanking the Member opposite for bringing this important debate to the Floor of the House, and I sincerely thank the Minister for coming to the House for the debate. I know that, as always, she will listen with care and great thought as each of us seeks to assist our constituents. She is probably sick of listening to me raising the issues in Lagan Valley of public infrastructure that has been starved of investment for decades, despite a growing population and an increasing younger and more active demographic. I know from all this engagement that Minister Mallon will work with us to help the people of Moira as much as she can, even though the financial allocation made to her Department remains constrained. <BR /> <BR />I was born in Moira, County Down, and, from an early age, I was involved in the hospitality industry.”
“Will the Minister confirm whether any research is to be commissioned on the reasons behind the high number of adjournments and on whether those adjournments were avoidable? I ask that in the context of the culture of adjournment, as identified in the report, and considering their negative impact on victims and witnesses.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does he agree that if you own a small fish and chip shop opposite a pub, of course your takings will have dropped because of COVID and you are going to lose the rental value of the property if it was set on the open market?”
“However, the answer cannot be for us to pass retrospective legislation without consultation, when there are so many questions around how much of an impact it will have on our businesses, how that impact will be negated and how the Minister missed so many opportunities to pass it in an open, honest and accessible way.”
“<BR /> <BR />The Minister stated that it would have been premature to consult councils and affected groups before the Executive signed off on the accelerated passage of the Bill. Why? Presumably, the Minister would still have brought forward legislation on the issue, as it still needed to be dealt with. If he had opened discussions earlier, he could have avoided the whole debate and leaving businesses afraid of future large bills appearing through their doors. <BR /> <BR />There is an understanding of the unprecedented situation that we have been dealing with here with COVID-19 and the need to deal with it.”
“Serious questions need to be asked about the Minister's approach to the legislation. The Department confirmed that it first asked for a legal opinion on the impact of the coronavirus health regulations on article 39A of the Rates Order 1977 in March 2020. The Department stated that the legal position was clarified in August 2020. At the very least, the non-domestic valuation list was published when there was a question over the legal position, and the Department has been aware of a potential issue for 19 months and of a confirmed issue for 15 months. Why are we rushing through all this legislation now, when we are 19 months down the line? Surely there was the opportunity to open discussions on the Bill after the legal opinion came back, which was, at least, in August.”
“For any legislation to be meaningful, it must be clear, accessible and able to act in a just and actionable way for those impacted. Passing retrospective legislation without consultation and by accelerated passage does not achieve that.”
“That could impact on the NAVs of hotels and pubs by up to 60%, of shops by 30% and of sporting facilities by 50%. Surely, that creates a legitimate expectation to consult. <BR /> <BR />The Minister stated in a letter to the Finance Committee that a consultation would not be meaningful, as no outcome from the consultation could change the intent or nature of the Bill.”
“Thanks for that. I am being supportive of it. My party colleague has stated that support. I am just going through the circumstances. <BR /> <BR />It is notable that, despite the Department not having time to consult on the impact, the Minister has stated that the Department sought extensive legal opinion from April 2020 on the impact of the COVID health regulations on article 39A of the Rates Order, which affects the Bill that we are talking about. In addition, LPS took the time to get advice from the Department's solicitors. There was an obligation to consult and manage and get a response. As this is a unique taxation matter, there is, by the Department's reckoning, neither a statutory obligation nor a legitimate expectation to consult on the Bill.”
“That continues a long line of concerns surrounding the number of Executive Bills that are passed with little scrutiny or evidence gathered. That is not the way to produce clear, properly functioning legislation. It seems to be unique to Northern Ireland, because, while similar legislation has been proposed in England, Scotland and Wales to deal with non-domestic rates valuations, similar emergency procedures for accelerated passage have not been used. The impact of the use of accelerated passage for legislation that has not been consulted on is that it could be rammed through in a matter of weeks, without most of the impacted businesses even knowing that it exists. With any other legislation, the Committee —”
“I fully recognise the circumstances surrounding the Bill. I understand that the scope of the issue goes further than the ongoing valuation appeals to those that will have to be taken regarding the valuation of similarly circumstanced properties and that it could amount to £255 million, as has been stated. Further, I understand that a similar situation is faced by the Administrations in England, Scotland and Wales, where the result has been the passage of similar legislation to remove the right to appeal valuations on the basis of the unintended consequences of COVID-19. <BR /> <BR />There are serious concerns about the lack of scrutiny that has been created by the Minister's unprecedented desire to use accelerated passage for legislation that has not been consulted on and that applies retrospectively.”
“Minister, I have to agree with the last part of your answer. Will you ensure that there is robust communication about the implementation of the scheme? It must work and provide safety, but community support and buy-in are essential. A clear communication process is also essential.”
“I also thank the Minister for her statement and acknowledge the Murray and Dorrian families for being here today. I welcome the Minister's step towards embracing Charlotte's law. Will she give the House an assurance that robust safeguards will be put in place to ensure that false or misleading disclosures do not benefit those who make them or lead to any reduction in the time that is due to be served?”
“Many restaurants work with food banks to use potential food waste to feed those who cannot afford it. Apps and other technologies are being used to contact consumer groups about food that would otherwise be wasted. To find new and innovative ways of doing that, however, leadership must come forward. Without fully considering food waste —”
“If Northern Ireland households had access to the more than 66 trillion gallons of water that goes towards producing wasted food each year, it would take us over 550 years to use it. <BR /> <BR />Let me talk about one area of food waste. UK consumers throw away 10 million tons of food every year, most of which could have been eaten. That shocking statistic costs the average UK family £700 a year and equates to six meals a day. Good work has started. WRAP, the Waste and Resources Action Programme, is a charity that works with organisations across the food and drink industry, as well as with local authorities, Governments, non-governmental organisations and others, to create economic and environmental value in reducing food waste and greenhouse gas emissions and to tackle issues of water stress across the supply chain.”
“The nearly 30% of the world's agricultural land that is currently occupied with the production of food that is never consumed is equal to an area that is three times the size of the European Union. Twenty-eight million tons of fertiliser is used annually to grow that wasted food. Growing the £133 billion worth of food that retailers and consumers discard in just the United States uses more than 70 times the amount of oil that was lost in the Deepwater Horizon disaster in the Gulf of Mexico. <BR /> <BR />Food waste accounts for about 10% of total global greenhouse gas emissions. That means that the contribution of food waste emissions is almost equivalent to global road transportation, which would make food waste the third largest emitter in the world, if it were a country.”
“Over one third of the four billion tons of food produced each year is wasted. That chilling statistic has a huge impact economically, socially and environmentally. The cost of food waste to the economy is estimated to be £530 billion a year. Socially, the United Nations World Food Programme points out that, if we tackled the problem of food waste, we could feed nine billion people a day. The UN Environment Programme estimates that global food production accounts for 70% of freshwater used and 80% of deforestation. Food production is also the largest single driver of biodiversity loss and creates at least 30% of global greenhouse gas emissions. <BR /> <BR />Those statistics can be hard to get your head around, so let me try to give some context.”
“Many a great sporting day has been had there. This legislation will bring it forward from when it got its charter to run races.”
“<BR /> <BR />However, I support the legislation and hope to see it enacted in a timely manner so that those important funds can be accessed as quickly as possible. In addition to the reinstatement of the fund, I encourage that the Minister to investigate retrospective payments to the racecourses from the horse racing fund. The Committee heard during evidence sessions that Down Royal had been ineligible for payments from the fund since the current owners commenced operation in 2019, so has been without funding since then. The horse racing fund currently has a large sum that has not been able to be paid to the two racecourses, so I encourage the Minister to look into making appropriate retrospective payments to both racecourses in line with the objectives of the fund. <BR /> <BR />We have had horse racing at Down Royal for 300 years.”
“As a Lagan Valley MLA, like the Minister himself, I was delighted that Down Royal's recent festival of racing sold out. That is a positive image for the future of horse racing, proving that people in Northern Ireland were excited to get back to the races. After a tough 18 months for the industry, it was great to see so many people enjoying the social occasion. Now the Assembly can support the industry by resuming payments from the horse racing fund to Down Royal and Downpatrick. <BR /> <BR />I have to ask about our greyhounds. The subject has been touched on, but tracks sit within the scope of the legislation. They, too, have struggled with the impact of the pandemic, but lack the same support. Hopefully, that is something that the Minister will, as he said in his opening remarks, consider.”
“It is important to consider the key jobs that will be supported: those who maintain the courses and organise the races, the trainers and the breeders. Without the support of the horse racing fund, we cannot guarantee the future of our two racecourses. The fund was established to help with prize money and maintain the racecourses, including the safety and welfare of the horses, the staff and the racecourses. Down Royal and Downpatrick racecourses have successfully maintained their standards during the absence of the fund, but that will not be sustainable forever. It is important that access to the fund is resumed. <BR /> <BR />Horse racing is a social event, and the industry, like many sectors, suffered due to the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic.”
“Thank you, Minister, for introducing the legislation. We support it. This is an important piece of legislation, needed to maintain the economic security of two of our key businesses. The Horse Racing (Northern Ireland) Order 1990 named the beneficiaries of the horse racing fund, and the change of ownership of Down Royal Racecourse led to the suspension of payments from the fund to both Down Royal and Downpatrick. This is a very focused piece of legislation that will ensure that the payments are resumed. <BR /> <BR />The two racecourses play a key role in the Northern Ireland economy, with Deloitte's analysts totalling the economic benefit of Down Royal and Downpatrick at roughly £9 million. Both racecourses also contribute to the agriculture sector through rural employment and the breeding and training of horses.”
“Minister, we have seen a sharp rise in energy prices and the cost of living. You set out your reasons for not taking action on the universal credit cut, but will you urgently convene a cost-of-living task force with the Economy and Communities Ministers to explore what more can be done to support people this winter?”
“Thank you, joint First Minister, for giving the report here today. It represents a major step forward, as already stated. Out of the 10,500 women who went through those institutions, there are some who probably want to remain anonymous, and everything must be done that possibly can be done to keep their identity as private as they would like. Do you agree?”
“The Bill is about creating statutory provision to allow free product provision for all who need it. I commend the Second Stage of the Bill to the House.”
“I hope that we can have those discussions throughout the next stage, and I will commit to giving them proper consideration when it comes to the stages at which amendments can be made. Quite simply, I hope to engage with Ministers and Departments as they are key to the implementation of the Bill. I hope that we can find consensus on where the Bill complements the good work they are already doing and that we can create a legal framework that allows for the best provision for our citizens in the most effective way. <BR /> <BR />As I said, the Bill is about equality, dignity and the Northern Ireland that we want to see going forward. Good work has been done with pilots by the Department of Education and the Department for the Economy, but they are exactly that folks: they are pilots.”
“<BR /> <BR />I agree that the Bill is cross-cutting, and there was a large amount of discussion at drafting as to where it should sit. I welcome those discussions continuing so that we get this right. More research needs to be done. This is a broader issue than just period poverty, and I look forward to those discussions happening. <BR /> <BR />I am glad that the Global Menstrual Collective was mentioned. It is a global campaign, and I am glad that I can play my small part in it. <BR /> <BR />A number of Members raised some good points about particular revisions that could be added to the Bill. Let me reiterate that I would be delighted to be involved in any discussions that will improve the Bill.”
“I appreciate that that needs to be discussed further. I also agree that more consultation is needed with the Department so that we get a better idea of how universal provision will become a reality. <BR /> <BR />Members called for clarity on whether the Bill will impact women and girls. It is indisputable that it will, but, as I said, I am not perfect, and I am happy to speak to all Members on how the Bill can be improved. However, I want to be clear: I want provision for women, girls and all those who menstruate, and I will work to find the language in the Bill that best achieves that. Any change must be in agreement with the Equality Commission and campaign groups. <BR /> <BR />The point has been well made that period products are not a luxury. They are a healthcare necessity, and that is what the Bill seeks to achieve.”
“I agree with a number of the points raised about the finances and would welcome a deeper discussion on the financial implications of the Bill's provisions, based on information that was provided by the pilot scheme that was proposed by the Department of Education in 2020. The potential cost of period products in schools under the proposed legislation would be around £2 million in the first year and less than £1 million per annum subsequently. That reflects reduced costs as the system of provision becomes embedded. It is estimated that the maximum product cost of a scheme of universal provision of period products is likely to be less than £3 million per annum, accounting for the target group who experience period poverty. Based on an assumption of high uptake, £3·8 million represents the upper range of the possible product cost.”
“On far too many occasions, I have been in here and sat through debates in which we have argued about things that may well have been nonsense and where it seemed like the reason that one side had an issue was because the other side were in favour. We are all, collectively, better than that. It has been refreshing to listen to a debate where there has been a good level of consensus and harmony among Members. <BR /> <BR />As I said at the beginning of the debate, I welcome Chris Lyttle's support and look forward to working with him and the Education Committee to make sure that this is the best piece of legislation possible.”
“Thanks, everyone, for listening to and helping with the debate. I am a brother of four sisters, I have three daughters and I have three little granddaughters, so it is important to me that no one goes without. This is a small step. I will touch on all the points that were made. I do not want to get too deep, but I say to all Members: I am open to your guidance on making good legislation. This is the Second Reading of the Bill, so we can change it and make it what we want it to be: fit for purpose and good. <BR /> <BR />I thank all Members who contributed for the way in which the debate was conducted.”
“Period products are essential healthcare products for all those who menstruate, not luxury products. We recognise the complex needs of those who menstruate. That includes not only includes women but trans men and those who are intersex. The Bill aims to be inclusive for all who have faced period poverty. We must break down the barriers of period stigma and provide inclusive education in raising awareness of period dignity. Nobody should feel ashamed about their period, and nobody should have to experience period poverty in today's society. I hope that the general principles and aims of the Bill will be accepted by all in the Chamber.”
“That allows time for a full consultation and for guidance to be published. The Executive Office can then appoint, by regulation, commencement dates for the key clauses, but it must do so within two years of Royal Assent. <BR /> <BR />I have sent the Bill to all my original consultees, including the Equality Commission and the Human Rights Commission. I have also opened up dialogue with members of the Health and Education Committees and with all parties and independent Members in the Assembly. I do not suggest for one minute that I am perfect when it comes to creating legislation, so I am open to any and all discussions on how the Bill can be improved. I ask that we improve it as best as we can. <BR /> <BR />To conclude, the Bill is about equality, dignity and the Northern Ireland that we want to see.”
“I spoke with many women's groups, all of which told me very clearly that the use of gender-neutral language did not take away from the impact of the Bill for them or the importance of the Bill for women. They said that they did not want to see a Bill that did not provide for all people who have periods. There is no doubt about the impact that the Bill's provisions will have on women and girls. There is a need for more women's voices to be heard on all issues and for more women to be represented in the Chamber. It is my hope that the Bill represents a small step towards rectifying the situation. <BR /> <BR />Clause 8 provides definitions for other terms that are used in the Bill, using existing statutory definitions as far as possible. Clause 9 allows for different clauses to commence on different dates.”