Pat Catney
Lagan Valley · Social Democratic and Labour Party · Northern Ireland
“I am delighted that he will get his own private Member's Bill through, which will bring equality, again, within teaching. He had to do a huge piece of work on the back of that. <BR /> <BR />It makes me proud to be part of this Assembly.”
“I am excited for the future. I will go back to the Minister. I have done so twice and will do it again. I do not know how the relationships required by the Bill's cross-cutting nature will go or which Department will hold the powers that the Bill provides to ensure that period products are available as widely as possible.”
“I have done that with every single Member whom I have met out there and talked to. I thank Members across the Chamber for their kind words to me personally today. This is not electioneering, folks, but I will tell you this. As we walk out and face the general public, no one knows what way they are going to go.”
“When I started out, I did not know the whole process of where or how it goes, but I know the process now, and I know that there is a lot of work, including from the civil servants. Mr Deputy Speaker, I will go back to tell you about when I had the little pub next door to Churchill House.”
“I will not be much longer, folks. I want to say that, as I was coming down this morning, I had the radio on, and I heard about an art project that is going on in Belfast. This may well be my last opportunity to speak about the ring of steel.”
“There was a bit of toing and froing, and I did not know which Department was going to lift the Bill and take up the chalice, which some people may have thought was a poisoned chalice. I thank the Minister, Deirdre, for taking that chalice. It was brave and correct to do that.”
The complete record
Every one of 680 lines we hold for Pat Catney, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 9 of 14.
“I have set out some points of clarity that will be required going forward. I still hope that those can be provided at Further Consideration Stage and that there is a way forward for the Bill. I think that we can all agree that RHI was only the latest and most publicised issue with the function of the Executive and that change must be achieved. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Bill's sponsor and everyone who has contributed to it: the Committee, the Chair of the Committee and Jim McManus.”
“Similarly, I had concern about how the clause operated to reduce the number of special advisers. I support the clarity given in amendment Nos 8 and 9 that not all special advisers in the Executive Office will need to be reappointed by the action of clause 4.”
“I thank the Bill's sponsor for his proposed amendment to clause 1, which, for the most part, brings more clarity. I still have concern about amendment No 4 on whether the political nature of the appointment of special advisers needs to be included explicitly. I appreciate the argument that Jim put forward, which was that nothing in the clause prevents including political affinity in the job description, but something needs to be put back in there in black and white in order to secure the principle in the future operation of the Bill. <BR /> <BR />I welcome amendment No 7 and new clause A2. I know that there was some back and forth at the Committee about the number of special advisers that are required in the Executive Office. Jim has done well to find the suitable number of six.”
“It is cumbersome and slow moving up here, but we want change, and I also like to go with small steps. <BR /> <BR />I know that Matthew, who spoke on criminal sanctions, will rise again to speak on that. Unlike the apparent position of some parties, however, I do not think it is sensible, or, indeed, correct, to oppose every single clause. It is a tough choice, but I think that I could bring myself to vote for clause 15, which is the short title of the Bill.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am supportive of the intent of the Bill, which is to provide clarity on and scrutiny of the appointment of special advisers, how information is recorded and handled and the accountability of Departments and Ministers to the Assembly. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Bill's sponsor for his work in bringing it forward, and, despite my reservations with parts of the Bill, for his willingness to work with the Committee in order to find consensus and a way forward to the vital reform that it could provide for all. There are clauses that I am happy with, and some, I feel, need some work. <BR /> <BR />I could go back to the bad government, I could go back to what the people out there want and I could go back to my election in Lagan Valley in order to come up here to try to make changes.”
“so I have decided that I am going to go for the shortened script, definitely. I am going to try to keep it as quick as I can.”
“You will be pleased to know that I have a shortened script and a longer script”
“The Member has been here since 2003, so I am sure that he will know better than I do that the reason why we have five parties in the Executive is that we had one-party domination here. We all saw the abysmal rule, the misrule and the gerrymandering that came from that. Having five parties in the Executive was a political solution.”
“Thank you, Minister. I realise that we are working to get that money out to businesses. Is there a possibility that the support announced yesterday for company directors could be utilised by small businesses?”
“I also welcome the work that the Minister for Infrastructure has been doing to develop a green transport strategy, particularly the groundbreaking cross-border work with Minister Ryan that I hope to see much more of. <BR /> <BR />A new green economy is not only central to protecting our area for the next generations but it is now clear that it is central to the recovery of our economy from the pandemic and will be a key driver for growth in the future. I know that the Committee will continue to work to make sure that any energy strategy realises that potential.”
“It will require us to look at changing behaviour, and a model should be taken from the EU clean energy package's ambition to see citizens put at the heart of the future of energy. That behavioural shift will be key to any effective energy transformation. <BR /> <BR />We need to keep an eye on emerging transport technologies, which has been alluded to by my colleague. While hydrogen will be the key to unlocking the greener transport system, any energy strategy must have the flexibility to deal with new technologies that we may not have fully considered today. That will not only make the strategy more effective but will add to the longevity of it.”
“<BR /> <BR />However, it is not all good news. Successive Executives have failed to produce a coherent plan to realise the benefits of offshore wind, while all our closest neighbours have shot forward in that area. There must be continued engagement with partners across Government and businesses, including the Crown Estate, to address barriers and ensure that Northern Ireland has the potential to benefit from future seabed leasing rounds. <BR /> <BR />We need to consider the clear targets on heat that were set by the Government in Dublin to have 500,000 greener homes and 400,000 heat pumps installed by 2030. That goes beyond the structured thinking of just looking at heat, power and transport.”
“Yes, I agree, and I have to ask that question, but we are looking at what we are doing here in Northern Ireland. It is good news that has to be commended and welcomed as much as possible. <BR /> <BR />The suggested target of renewable energy for Northern Ireland of 80% by 2030 would have the effect on the reduction of carbon emissions of every household turning off the electricity for 1·5 years. The key success to our increase in renewable generation has been the increase in onshore wind. The Northern Ireland renewables obligation (NIRO), which was the main support stream for encouraging increased renewable electricity generation, spurred that on. However, the scheme closed in 2017. Any future targets must be accompanied by credible incentive schemes in order to spearhead movement towards our ambitious targets.”
“It must be recognised that, when it comes to power, we have made some excellent progress. Fifteen years ago, 3% of our electricity consumption came from renewables; today, it is 47%. That is a great leap forward and a success that we should build on. It is good news not just for the environment, with 9 megatons of carbon saved in the last 20 years, but for consumers, with £135 million saved on consumer bills since 2000. I welcome the Minister's commitment to build on that success by setting new ambitious targets for emissions in Northern Ireland, which, she said, should not be below 70%.”
“I thank Committee members and the Committee Clerk for the work that has gone into producing the special report and their ongoing commitment to a new green future for Northern Ireland. <BR /> <BR />I stand here thankful that, finally, in 2020, we have got to the point where, despite some politically charged rumblings, I have heard our Economy Minister and our Environment Minister speak in the Chamber about the need to protect our environment and tackle climate change. In the context of the debate, I particularly welcome the Minister's recognition in her road map, which was published in June, of the central role of the green economy in rebuilding the Northern Ireland economy. <BR /> <BR />An effective energy strategy must have ambitious targets to tackle decarbonisation in heat, power and transport.”
“Thank you, Minister. You have been provided with additional resources today to extend the scheme for the next two weeks. Given — I am going to be hard — the failure of the Department that you oversee to get that desperately needed money out as quickly as possible, can you provide a time frame for the delivery of these grants to the businesses, please?”
“Thank you for the statement, Minister. It was very detailed. I believe that it will go some way to taking some of the stress and heat from our business community. <BR /> <BR />Minister, you have allocated £10·6 million to wet pubs, and that is very welcome. I hope and trust that that will be rolled out as quickly as possible. I am sure that the Minister is also aware that there are public houses that have a rateable valuation of £50,000 and above. Is there a specific package to help those businesses?”
“What programmes are in place to support those with poor mental health who are referred to the care and supervision unit?”
“Thank you, Minister, and I thank your officials from the Department for briefing the Finance Committee. Brexit has already been mentioned, and there has been a promise of extra money to increase the total to £1 billion. We hear about the consultation and how we will try to get the money out to our community. Minister, are you fairly confident that the British Government will meet their commitment as promised?”
“Thank you, Minister, for your statement. It has to be welcomed. I welcome the easier payment method that will be used for the self-isolation payment. I know that 4,800 people were successful with their application up until October, but will the Minister inform me of how many people were unsuccessful?”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. What I was really trying to get at was the specific amount that you want to carry over and in which Departments.”
“<BR /> <BR />I sit on the Finance Committee, and the onus is on us to come forward with solutions. I thank the Minister and the Department for listening to the solutions that we try to bring forward. It is not always about scrutiny; it is about trying to help and bring forward solutions to get us to where we want to be.”
“<BR /> <BR />Going forward to the next Budget, we have a number of issues that are already apparent. First, we need an announcement from the Treasury to kick off the process that is pushing any consultation period on the new Budget into the festive season. That is not ideal, and I hope that the Minister will continue to push the Treasury. We also know that a £350 million hole has been left by the New Decade, New Approach funding, which will need to be found from somewhere. Consultation with Departments must start as early as possible so that pressure can be identified and sensible decisions made. Ultimately, work must continue on a fiscal commission to give greater scrutiny into and expertise on our budgetary process. Maybe then some of the projects that we develop can begin to be checked off rather than gather dust in a report somewhere.”
“The burden on our economy, on our agriculture sector and on our trade will be difficult enough. We will not front the bill for a Tory vanity project. <BR /> <BR />In the last debate, Minister, you made a point of monitoring the increase in the capital budget for the Department for Infrastructure and, specifically, the £15 million for Northern Ireland Water. I appreciate your point, but I am sure that you are well aware that that is far less than what is required to save our water and sewerage infrastructure. Northern Ireland Water has been to each council area describing how developments will have to be put on hold because of the issues. I hope that you will sit down with the Minister for Infrastructure as a matter of urgency to discuss what can be done.”
“Continual monitoring of the available COVID-related funds is needed. New announcements are welcome, but, as the Minister is aware, there are still those without support. <BR /> <BR />Continuous pressure must be put on the Treasury to solidify its commitment to meet Brexit costs.”
“There have been delays, but, as this is such important work, I hope that the Minister will commit to making sure that there are no further delays. <BR /> <BR />I also welcome the Minister's continued work on trying to get flexibility in budgetary exchange. Given COVID and all the talk about Brexit in the last few days, it is vital that flexibility is put into our Budget so that we can deal with pressures that do not conform to a financial year. We all agree that giving back unspent money should be avoided at all costs, and I know that the Minister has the support of the Committee on that. <BR /> <BR />On the Budget itself, I hope that recent announcements on housing associations will help them to access FTC. For a long time, the lack of use of that function has been staggering, and I hope that a credible option is now available.”
“I thank the Department and the staff for the work that has gone into developing the Budget. I thank the Minister for coming to the Assembly, answering our questions and providing clarity on a wide range of points. I also thank him for all his help when the all-party group on fair banking was being set up in response to COVID-19. That will be used more and needed more in the future. <BR /> <BR />I agree with the Minister that MLAs treat this debate as an opportunity to highlight projects in their area for which they would like funding. I am as guilty as any: dare I mention Maze/Long Kesh? Really, this is not the stage at which to do that. I welcome his commitment to a review of the budgetary process as it will give help and clear direction on how best to input into the process.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does the Member agree with me that the Chair and members of the Finance Committee wrote to LPS thanking it for its work and its quick response? These are horrific times, and that was the reason for doing that. We are not attacking it, and I hope that it does not come across like that. I thought that it did a tremendous job.”
“Ministers and MLAs are very good at attending photo opportunities at the opening of new businesses, but that rings hollow if we cannot come up with a long-term strategy to grow the sector. We need a plan to grow our skilled worker base, to build the infrastructure and broadband capabilities and to facilitate the sector, and we need to look ahead to new technologies and new areas like green manufacturing that can future-proof our industries while protecting workers, their livelihoods and their world-class skills.”
“I say "the industry", but, of course, our manufacturing industry is extremely varied, and any support packages must take that into account. We cannot make the mistake again of announcing support packages with gaps that leave out certain businesses and certain employers. The Minister for the Economy must speak to the industry. I know that you have done, and I know that you will engage, Minister. <BR /> <BR />The main pressures for the coming year must be identified, and support must be put in place on that basis. I know from speaking to many businesses that they are willing to work with us and to adapt as best they can, but that is impossible without support. We also need to be clear that difficulties for the manufacturing industry existed before COVID and will exist long after.”
“However, there are many who, due to the nature of their business, have not been able to operate, while not being able to avail themselves of some of the support put forward by the Executive. We already have too many job losses, but what scares me is not only the immediate impact of this pandemic but that the recession that will follow will cast a shadow far into 2021 and beyond. Any failure to act will lead to countless more job losses in the future — jobs of highly skilled workers that, I fear, we will never get back. <BR /> <BR />That could be compounded by our restrictions on being able to spend on capital public projects, which many manufacturers rely on. That is why it is clear that a robust support package must be put in place for the industry.”
“<BR /> <BR />Many manufacturers have been able to adapt, be that in how they operate to allow business to continue while keeping workers safe or how they have adapted to make in-demand products, such as PPE, which has already been mentioned. When our supply chains for those vital products were less than certain, the innovation and willingness of those companies to change quickly was incredible. I have spoken to many companies that were uncertain of how they should best act and am extremely glad that they did.”
“I thank Mr Stewart, Dr Aiken and Mr Robbie Butler for tabling the motion. Robbie will know of the great manufacturing tradition that we are lucky to have in my area, going back to our linen industry, which was famous all over the world. Lisburn was built on manufacturing. Many families owe their livelihood to it. It is an industry that has worked hard through the burning of Lisburn, the terrible impact of the Troubles and the economic uncertainty that we have faced over the past number of years. Now, COVID presents a new danger. It has an impact on supply lines, which reduces the availability of raw materials. It restricts manufacturing processes, as workers are unable to come together as they used to in a safe way, and it impacts on demand as end users are not operating or do not have the same opportunities to buy as they used to.”
“Maybe he could help me, Mr Deputy Speaker. I was told that the Executive were going to meet on Thursday. They did not meet. I was told that they were going to meet today, and that is why we are debating in the House. I hope that the Member agrees with me that we have not got any direction from them. From what I can see, it is the two larger parties — Sinn Féin and the DUP — that are holding this whole process back at the moment, because I do not think that all of the Executive have met yet.”
“<BR /> <BR />Before deciding the way forward, the Executive should take advice from the president-elect and the first female vice president-elect of the United States: now is the time for science and the time for truth. That is how we build trust with our business community. That is how we can support them, and that is how we will get through the pandemic.”
“Shame on those who leaked that information. Show me the evidence that a restaurant that serves a bottle of wine with dinner is more dangerous than a restaurant that does not. Maybe I am wrong, but that sounds less like decision-making based on evidence and more like decision-making based on the outdated conservative prejudices against alcohol that the Chamber spoke so strongly against last week. It is nonsense to suggest that restaurants should open, denying their access to the support schemes for businesses that are asked to close, but should not sell alcohol, which is critical to their business model. When the Executive ask any service to close, whether it is schools, restaurants or retail, they need to provide additional support to allow people to follow the rules. The slow pace of support to date has not inspired confidence.”
“On Tuesday, they were told to close. Honesty with the public is needed. Tell the public that a six-week lockdown now is a big step but would allow certainty that there could be some sort of relaxation to allow people to come together and businesses to open for the festive period. Surely, that clear instruction, rather than the political spin that we have got over the past few weeks, would give us a better standing with our business community. <BR /> <BR />I applaud the vast majority of the public, who have followed the restrictions over the past period and helped to get our infection numbers down from some of the worst rates in Europe. However, unrest exists due to the lack of clarity and a lack of decision-making based on scientific evidence. That will grow if what was leaked this weekend turns out to be true.”
“Yet again this week, we heard the First Minister say that there will be no extension to the current restrictions, but, yesterday, we found out in a TV interview that that will probably not be the reality for a lot of businesses. How do we expect any business to survive in this environment? How do we look at those who run our supply chains and need time to prepare for any reopening? They will be in limbo for another week, caught between the expense of preparation, if there is an extension, and a loss of income, if there is not. <BR /> <BR />It is particularly annoying that that is exactly what happened when the Executive first introduced the new set of restrictions. On the Monday, the Education Minister guaranteed that schools would not close. Questions had been asked for weeks about whether the schools would close, with no answers.”
“I thank everyone who has contributed to the debate. There has been a lot that I could agree with and a lot that I could not agree with. Business is not easy, folks. You all know that. If it were easy, everybody would be at it. We live in difficult times. <BR /> <BR />The whole point of having the regulations in statute and, in fact, the main reason that we have our laws written down is to provide clear instruction to our citizens and businesses on what must be done, how it must be done and when it must be done, clear instructions so that no one is disadvantaged or put under unnecessary duress. However, there has been no clarity on how we have got to the restrictions of this second lockdown.”
“Thank you, Minister. The situation facing these businesses is totally unacceptable. In my view, the Minister has been far too slow to support those who have been asked to close and to support supply chain employers that have been affected by these decisions. Will she apologise to those business owners, who are in despair this afternoon, and commit to providing them with the support that they need now?”
“Yes, I know. The licence is on/off the premises. I agree with you; it is antiquated and needs to be looked at. The other important point is that, in order to operate their business, if it has not been passed down from generation to generation, most publicans have to pay for a licence when they buy their premises, and that creates a monopoly. I agree that a mechanism will have to be found to compensate publicans if there are changes.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank Trevor for giving way. Whenever those licences are surrendered, they go to supermarkets. It is very rare now —.”
“Just on that point, when those licences are surrendered —.”
“It is important that we know that pubs only close at 5.00 pm on Good Friday until 11.00 pm. They are open on Saturday and on Holy Sunday, so it is just a brief closure. I do not know what the new legislation says, but at the moment, they close from 5.00 pm to 11.00 pm. They are open on Saturday and Sunday at the moment.”
“Mr Deputy Speaker, I operated a bar in Belfast city centre. I can go back to the police, for the records are there. I never saw violence in that bar, because the establishment was strict and well-run. There are publicans out there who run their establishments with an iron fist, believe me, and do not allow people to move. <BR /> <BR />We can take the blame for all these misdemeanours and blame them on alcohol, but you cannot blame them on alcohol consumed in a public house operating under a very strict family tradition of how to run a bar. I have to say to you that in a lot of public houses there is zero tolerance: zero. I could be corrected, but I promise you that I cannot remember the police coming to me once to say that someone had left my pub and started a row outside in the street. Not once.”
“Thank you for giving way. I operated a bar —.”
“Our current licensing laws do not give that protection: they are bad for the industry, bad for our economy and have little impact on the people whom they are supposed to protect. The licensing laws must be reformed, and we must take this opportunity to do so. <BR /> <BR />Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Speaker, for indulging me. I wanted to go down memory lane as everyone else seemed to be taking their time.”
“Sales are an important source of revenue, which prevents them having to sell to the distributors, and that is where the problem lies. Small breweries find that they cannot go to market because the pubs have contractual clauses that mean they can buy only from the big brewers such as Guinness and Heineken. When consumers cannot get their local craft beer, they head to the supermarket or off-licence to buy a global brand with no connection to our people or economy. <BR /> <BR />As a bar owner, I have seen the devastation that alcoholism can cause. I have worked to try to help people who have been affected by alcoholism and, unfortunately, I have had to attend some of their funerals. It is right that we do all that we can to prevent alcoholism and to help those who have that terrible disease.”
“They are also energising the industry in areas such as sustainability and are bringing back the heritage of our industry. Without the backing of the big companies that are meant to support them, pubs face an uncertain future with Brexit. However, we are attacking them with ridiculous laws that stop them from giving their products to visitors in their distilleries or breweries. That is not a health issue: no binge drinker is going to the local independent brewer to pay a premium for a local product. We love to talk about tourism opportunities in the Chamber, but here is a world-renowned industry that is capable of bringing visitors from all over the world, and we are holding it back with our odd off-days and useless laws. <BR /> <BR />Hampering local entrepreneurs does not boost the economy.”
“Craft brewers believe that their indigenous industry can grow if they are given the right tools by the Assembly. The public and, importantly, tourists must be able to drink a brewer's own beer on-site without restrictive clauses. With greater exposure, it will be harder for the big brewers to deny entry to craft brewers to the market as they do now. Small craft breweries selling their beer on-site was never intended as a replacement for the pub, but it is something that Northern Ireland is missing that the rest of the UK has. Indeed, many countries support their small entrepreneurial craft brewers. <BR /> <BR />I have often spoken about the incredible craft distilleries and breweries that have sprung up in the last number of years. They are creating and producing a world-renowned product, and they are worldwide winners.”