Katy Clark
Scottish Labour · Scotland
“I welcome the fact that we are taking steps to reduce the prison population, but there needs to be a wider discussion—I think that we are all agreed on that. Community justice must be expanded.”
“The chamber has been designed so that members speak through the chair, which also means that the microphones will work. If you face me, your microphone should work. Alyn Smith: I am grateful to Amanda Bland for her comment. She is a good colleague on the Criminal Justice Committee, and, as ever, that was a sensible question.”
“Yesterday, I met constituents outside the Parliament who are concerned about the potential impact on local communities and the environment of the energy consumption of proposed AI data centres in Irvine, Bishopbriggs and Hunterston, in my region. At least 24 controversial sites are being considered across Scotland.”
“The member cannot take an intervention, as she is already in additional time. Pauline McNeill: I will conclude with a specific point on deaths in custody, which the Criminal Justice Committee had a brief chat about on Wednesday morning.”
“I move amendment S7M-00469.2, to insert at end: “; is concerned that the current prison population crisis is chronically hampering effective rehabilitation; calls on the Scottish Government to increase its investment in GPS technology and speed up its roll out, and notes that the current approach to rehabilitation, community justice and e…”
“I understand that there is a request for national guidance, but that would be a deviation from where we are as a Parliament. However, if the mood of the Parliament is changing, the Government is open to listening, and that is a conversation to be had.”
The complete record
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“Only 2 per cent of this year’s budget for justice and home affairs is assigned to community justice, and only 10 per cent of that community justice budget is to be spent on front-line services, which is a real- terms cut of 2 per cent. Local government has also faced cuts to its budget of about 50 per cent since 2010 and is unable to provide a range of services. The cabinet secretary and I have been in correspondence about this, but she must surely accept that we cannot have real-terms cuts to community justice in this year’s budget. Angela Constance: As I demonstrated at portfolio questions last week, we have not cut budgets for community justice.”
“In the most recent tenders for new work, the feedback that has been received has pointed to the quality of the work and the need to build on that reputationally, in order to secure new work. Qualifications Scotland 2.”
“Does the Deputy First Minister agree that this is yet another failure by the management, rather than the workforce, at Ferguson Marine? In her role as finance secretary, will she say more about what is being done to provide support to those who are suffering as a result of the situation—the islanders on Arran and the community in Ardrossan—and what financial support she is putting in place? Kate Forbes: On a point of information, I am no longer the finance secretary, which is probably relevant to that question. I think that Katy Clark’s first point was about the talent of the workforce. I absolutely agree with her, in full, that the talent, ability and skills of the workforce were never in doubt.”
“Angela Constance: Katy Clark makes a good point about the importance of sustained funding in community justice. That is what I have focused on and delivered. She may be interested to know that £95 million was invested in justice social work in 2016-17 and, as I have said, that figure has now increased to £148 million. That is an increase of more than 55 per cent. Justice Services (Rural Areas) 2.”
“Only 2 per cent of the total funding that has been allocated for justice and home affairs has been assigned to community justice. Out of that, only 10 per cent has been allocated to third-sector organisations that deliver front-line services. Local authorities provide a significant proportion of community justice. However, their budgets have been cut by about 50 per cent in real terms since 2010, and they say that they are not able to provide the range of services that are needed. Does the cabinet secretary believe that such levels of funding can deliver the shift to community justice that is needed across Scotland to reduce reoffending and tackle the root causes of crime? The Deputy Presiding Officer: I will need quick questions and answers.”
“To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to the Scottish Information Commissioner taking legal action against it in relation to its missing deadlines to produce documents regarding James Hamilton’s investigation into alleged breaches of the ministerial code. (S6T-02866)”
“To ask the First Minister whether the Scottish Government will comply with the Scottish Information Commissioner’s ruling that files relating to James Hamilton’s investigation into whether the former First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, broke the ministerial code must be published by 22 January 2026. (S6F-04603)”
“To ask the Scottish Government what steps it is taking to promote the development of municipally owned energy sources. (S6O-05386)”
“With regard to the expansion of the firefighter role, I thank all members who have signed my recent motion calling on the Scottish Government to make progress on that issue, particularly in the light of the shared commitment of both the FBU and the SFRS. Members have highlighted the FBU’s DECON campaign, and I reiterate my calls for greater action from the Scottish Government to protect the health and safety of firefighters. I reiterate that there is a legal obligation on the Scottish Government and on the SFRS as an employer to provide a safe system of work to firefighters. I conclude by placing on record my thanks to the firefighters and staff—there are around 7,600 of them—for the vital work that they do in keeping us safe. 13:42”
“This is a Scotland-wide challenge and, given the Scottish Government’s failure to properly invest in tackling the capital backlog in this budget, I fear that those fire stations will continue not to be fit for purpose. Some members have focused on the service delivery review, which could lead to the closure of 13 fire stations, the permanent withdrawal of 10 appliances and changes to fire cover, leading to increased response times as a result. I reiterate my call to the Scottish Government to commit to a debate in Government time so that Parliament can have its say on any proposals before they proceed.”
“As Richard Leonard and a number of other members have said, the capital budget increase of less than £1.5 million is also completely inadequate, given the £818 million capital backlog that the SFRS faces. A number of members have spoken about the conditions in some fire stations, including the lack of showering facilities. I recently highlighted to the Scottish Government that many fire stations in my West Scotland region are still in a state of disrepair. In the past six years, Greenock, Gourock and Port Glasgow stations have had to conduct essential repairs and maintenance amounting to more than £1 million due to the condition that they were in. Dreghorn fire station, which is the main fire station service in Irvine, was also found to be in poor condition.”
“This week alone, we have seen the impact of flooding on many communities across Scotland, but the Scottish Government has chosen not to support our firefighters so that they are properly equipped to respond to those challenges in future. Since 2013, the SFRS resource budget has decreased by £58 million a year in real terms, and around 1,250 firefighter jobs have been lost. The resource increase that is offered in the Scottish Government’s budget, therefore, goes nowhere near far enough to reverse the damage that has been caused by more than a decade of cuts and job losses in the fire service. The proposed resource increase also falls short by more than £11 million of what the SFRS has set out as being required in order to recruit the new firefighters who will be needed over the next three years.”
“I thank Maggie Chapman for securing this important debate on whether the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service is fit for the future. I welcome the focus on response times in several of the speeches. As we know, there has been a significant increase in response times under the Scottish National Party, which, of course, increases risks. Maggie Chapman’s motion rightly highlights the challenges that the SFRS faces due to the climate emergency, including increased frequency and severity of flooding and wildfires. As a number of members have said, last year, we saw the risks posed by the climate emergency right on Parliament’s doorstep, with yet another wildfire engulfing Arthur’s Seat.”
“We know that it is not only individuals with PKU who have been experiencing issues with the inherited metabolic disease services, with charities such as Genetic Alliance Scotland highlighting that similarly inadequate care is being provided to others with rare diseases. I look forward to the minister responding to some of my points, and I reiterate points that have been made by other members on the availability of specific medications that help those who can access to them. The Deputy Presiding Officer: I call Jenni Minto to respond to the debate. 17:55”
“They said that, when it comes to some of the medical care that is available, the situation is better down south. I would be grateful if the minister could respond on that issue when she winds up the debate. We know that lifelong monitoring of PKU is also vital to safeguard health and reduce the risk of avoidable harms, yet the experience of many people who are living with PKU suggests that the current provision of care by the inherited metabolic disease service is inadequate. That point has been made by a number of constituents. There are stories of no face-to-face meetings being provided, years going by between appointments and individuals disengaging from care altogether due to a lack of regular specialist follow up. It would be helpful for the minister to respond to that in summing up.”
“Almost half of parents have had to reduce their working hours or to give up working altogether to provide the necessary dietary care to their children with PKU. It is clear that the condition has an impact on many aspects of public policy, so it is important that there is higher awareness of it across the public sector. I would be grateful if the minister could outline what steps the Scottish Government is taking to improve support for individuals with PKU and their families to address those issues. I say to the minister that it is clear that it is not an issue that affects only her portfolio. A concerning issue that came to light in the meetings that I had around the event in December related to people’s experience of how such matters are dealt with in Scotland and in England.”
“The condition places a significant daily burden on individuals who have it and their families, given the need for constant monitoring of diet and the need to avoid the consumption of many everyday foods, such as bread. Those of us who spoke to people who are directly affected by the condition were astonished to learn about the impacts that it has and impressed by the amount of work that those people do in attempting to manage the condition. Many children with PKU are more likely to suffer from issues with their attention levels and their ability to process information, which affects their educational attainment. As has already been said, many young people and adults with PKU are more likely to suffer from social isolation, poor mental health and physical health issues.”
“I, too, thank Fulton MacGregor for securing the debate and for his work on the issue. Like Christine Grahame, I did not know about the condition until I was contacted by constituents in the lead-up to the event before Christmas. It is surprising that so many of us knew so little about it. I pay tribute to my constituents who have shared their personal experiences with me, and I am glad that some of them have been able to join us in the public gallery this evening. As other members have said, PKU is a rare lifelong metabolic disorder that, without strict dietary management, can lead to severe and irreversible neurological damage. As Rona Mackay said, it is estimated that around one in 8,000 people across Scotland are currently living with PKU.”
“However, I point out that the information has possibly come to light because CalMac’s annual report and accounts identify the compensation for loss of office, along with the salary and the employer’s pension contribution. In other words, the information that she is seeking is actually publicly available.”
“My member’s bill—the Freedom of Information Reform (Scotland) Bill—includes a provision that public bodies must proactively publish information. The Scottish Information Commissioner has ruled that CalMac breached freedom of information rules by withholding information relating to severance payments and that there is a legitimate public interest in knowing how much senior executives are paid on exit from public bodies. Does the cabinet secretary agree with the aims of my bill, which would require bodies such as CalMac to proactively publish information such as the detail of severance payments for senior executives? Fiona Hyslop: As Ms Clark knows from her professional background, any situation in which employment legislation is applied to an individual case must be treated carefully.”
“Many of our schools work with the third sector, including Rape Crisis Scotland, in relation to the equally safe strategy. It might also be of interest to the member that Police Scotland has a new strategy in relation to violence against women and girls. Since 2023, its response to tackling violence against women and girls has been driven by the VAWG strategy, which was captured in its VAWG implementation plan. That includes quarterly reports on 86 actions that were based on a variety of commitments. The member’s point about it being a cross- Government, cross-portfolio and cross-sector strategy is important, and I am happy to engage with her further on the matter. Early Release (Victim Notification) 4.”
“Violence, sexism and misogyny are on the rise in schools across the United Kingdom, which is why the UK Government announced plans for specialist training courses, including on issues such as consent, for teachers and pupils who are classified as high risk. Will the Scottish Government work with key stakeholders such as Police Scotland and the education sector unions to introduce a cross- campus strategy to tackle violence, sexism and misogyny in our schools, including looking at the specialist training approach that the UK Government has set out? Angela Constance: Through the cross- Government engagement that I have with justice colleagues, I am aware of the new strategy that the UK Government has pursued. It is important to put on record the work that already takes place in Scotland’s schools, particularly on consent.”
“A great deal of distress has been caused to victims, and, as the cabinet secretary said, what we say matters. She now says that she accepts that she should have corrected the record. Does she accept that she should have come to the chamber with a simple apology a number of months ago, rather than going through these weeks of prevarication? Did she consider making such a statement to Parliament following the discussions with Professor Jay on 3 October about what clarification should be made? Angela Constance: I accept that victims and survivors live with a great deal of distress. I will not repeat in full my earlier remarks, but I reiterate that I accept that I could have come to the chamber earlier.”
“However, it believes that it is too little, too late, and that we could have avoided the recruitment and retention challenges that we currently face. I welcome the fact that we are having this debate today. We are very disappointed that more action has not been taken in this parliamentary session. We believe that the situation is getting worse and that action is now needed urgently. 14:57”
“Currently, twice the number of solicitors registered for legal aid are aged 40 and over, compared with those who are 40 and under. Historically, it was disproportionately the case that younger solicitors carried out legal aid work. Many of the solicitors who undertake legal aid work are likely to retire in the next few years. In its report, the committee has highlighted that many stakeholders believe that it is the low rates of fees for legal aid work that have contributed to the growing shortage of solicitors. There is no sign that that trend is changing, despite the minister pointing out that there has been at least some increase in rates in recent years, as opposed to the previous freezing of rates. That is why Scottish Labour welcomes the review that the Scottish Government has undertaken.”
“The cuts in rates have been accompanied by an 18 per cent reduction in the number of firms that are registered for legal aid, and I have already spoken about the number of solicitors having reduced by 12 per cent in only three years. That is the very recent past—those are the figures that we are dealing with now, against the backdrop of historical cuts to civil legal aid, which the minister is aware of. In a recent survey, the Law Society of Scotland found that nearly 41 per cent of respondents plan to stop offering legal aid within two years or are unsure whether they will continue. I do not know whether I have more time, given that I have taken a couple of interventions. The Presiding Officer: You do. Katy Clark: There is also concern about the fact that few younger solicitors are doing legal aid work.”
“One of the big issues that I have seen as a stumbling block to primary legislation being introduced in this parliamentary session is the fee structure. I acknowledge that it has been ad hoc over many years, which is why it is so vital that we have got the fee review mechanism group, which met last year, up and running. I hope that that is welcome. Katy Clark: I understand that some key stakeholders are not willing to take part in that group. At this point in my speech, I am focused on legal aid rates and the reasons why solicitors have walked away from undertaking civil legal aid work in particular, but the issues are very similar with criminal legal aid.”
“The 10 per cent rise in fees in 2023 effectively meant little in the face of cumulative inflation of 16 per cent at that time. I accept that the situation has improved in some ways in that there have begun to be increases in legal aid rates, but that is against a backdrop of many years of cuts. I am sure that the minister accepts that point. If the minister has worked to fight for more funding and to ensure that there has been at least some increase, I welcome that, given that, in the past, there were many times when rates were frozen and there was no increase. Does the minister want to make another intervention? Siobhian Brown: I thank the member for giving way, because this is a really important debate.”
“The cuts that there have been have also clearly contributed to the growing issues with legal aid provision that we are seeing across Scotland. Siobhian Brown: [Made a request to intervene.] Katy Clark: The number of solicitors who are registered to provide legal aid in Scotland has fallen by 12 per cent in just three years. Does the minister still want to make an intervention? Siobhian Brown: Yes—a brief one. I appreciate that there are concerns about eligibility, fees and so on, and negotiations are on-going on those issues, but would you acknowledge that legal aid has had an increase of 25 per cent since 2019? The Presiding Officer: Always speak through the chair. Katy Clark: I am aware of the very recent increases, but, as the minister is aware, the problem is the significant cuts that have been made over many, many years.”
“We are all aware of many constituents who have been unable to get legal representation when they need it, and we agree with the committee convener that it is very disappointing that there will be no primary legislation on the issue in this parliamentary session. It is also very disappointing that there has been no other significant action, with the situation only getting worse—in that respect, I listened very carefully to what the minister said. Scottish Labour has repeatedly warned about the deep and damaging cuts that the Scottish Government has made to the legal aid system. Scottish Government spending on legal aid has declined by 45 per cent over the past decade. We are clear that there must be an end to the cuts to legal aid and that the system must receive sustainable funding.”
“Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I am pleased to open the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour. We thank committee members, clerks and all others who contributed to the committee’s important report. We believe that the issues that are highlighted in the report go back over many decades. It is vital that we have a properly funded and accessible legal aid system. As we have heard, cuts to legal aid rates over a number of years have led to what are called legal aid deserts, where it is impossible to find a lawyer to take on a civil legal aid case. Insufficient fees for civil legal aid have led to lawyers being unwilling to carry out such work, and low eligibility thresholds mean that fewer and fewer people qualify. There have also been cuts—again, over many years—to the types of cases in which it is possible to get legal aid.”
“To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on how it plans to address CalMac’s ferry repair and maintenance costs, in light of reports that these costs have doubled over the past two years. (S6T-02824)”
“It would be helpful if the Scottish Government could provide a further update today on the outcome of any discussions that have taken place before the deadline for lodging stage 2 amendments, given that time will be limited between when we return after the Christmas break and the dissolution of Parliament. We welcome the bill and the approach of having a simple piece of legislation that uses simple language so that parties know exactly what the rules are that govern them. We will be pleased to agree to the general principles of the bill, and we call on the Scottish Government to seek further views on its drafting and to prepare guidance that seeks to make the law as straightforward and usable as possible. 13:37”
“It will also allow the law to be modernised to reflect how the world has changed and, as the convener mentioned, how our postal services have changed, in that they have got far worse and seen no improvement in any sense. We have to deal with the fact that new technology will have an enhanced role and that there will be changes to how communication takes place, with less reliance on postal services. I welcome the Scottish Government’s intention to introduce provisions on the law of retention. I invite ministers to consider the comments and drafting suggestions that have been made to the committee thus far and to engage with stakeholders on those suggestions ahead of stage 2. I hope that there will be consensus in that regard.”
“The bill seeks to implement the recommendations of the Scottish Law Commission by establishing default rules relating to the creation of contracts and aspects of the law on remedies for breach of contract, which we support. It does not intend to be a complete statutory codification of Scots common law on contract. Its provisions are intended as starting points or a default, as the minister outlined, always retaining the option for parties to contract out of them and provide their own rules by agreement. The bill’s provisions might be particularly helpful in international and commercial contexts, in which clarity and predictability are central to maintaining standards.”
“It aims to implement recommendations that the Scottish Law Commission made in its 2018 review of contract law in order to codify the law in that area. As the minister said, it is an attempt to codify and simplify the law. We do not accept that settled law always needs to be codified. However, we recognise the considerable work that the Scottish Law Commission has undertaken, and we support the contents of the bill. We also note that there is limited reform included in the bill. We hope that the bill does not lead to further litigation but, instead, clarifies the law and gives greater certainty. As the minister said, the intention is that contract law should be clear. As she also stated, the bill deals with the postal acceptance rule, and there will be proposals in relation to the law of retention, which we welcome.”
“I am pleased to open the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour, and I associate myself with the comments from the minister and the convener about Lady Paton. Scottish Labour supports the general principles of the bill, while calling for the Government to work with stakeholders to consider how the bill could be improved ahead of stage 2. As a member of the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee, I was involved in the bill’s scrutiny. I thank my colleagues on the committee for the work that they have done in scrutinising the bill, and I thank all stakeholders who engaged with us in the evidence sessions for their involvement in the scrutiny process so far. There has been a great deal of consensus on the provisions in the bill.”
“As I said in my opening response to Mr Gibson, the council’s SHIP sets out a target of 1,643 homes and that has just been revised to 1,666. Temporary Accommodation (Support for Children over Christmas) 2.”
“The number of new homes that North Ayrshire Council plans to build has not increased by a single house since the Scottish National Party took control of the council from Labour in 2022. Will the cabinet secretary advise whether that is the result of a lack of ambition on the part of the current North Ayrshire administration or due to cuts in funding for affordable housing by the Scottish Government? Màiri McAllan: There is £808 million in the affordable housing supply programme this year. In the housing emergency action plan that the Government released in September, we committed to up to £4.9 billion of expenditure over the next four years. That is a considerable uptick and provides greater certainty.”
“The committee heard from Police Scotland on the significant financial challenges that it faces, which Sharon Dowey mentioned, and how that affects its ability to tackle cybercrime. I hope that the need for greater investment in cybersecurity will be explored further in today’s debate. It is important to note that the true scale of cybercrime across Scotland is likely to be greater than we expect, given that it often goes unreported by individuals and organisations. It is also likely to become a bigger issue in the future. I hope that the Scottish Government will reflect on all the points that I have raised and that other members will raise on the need for cyber resilience and investment in cybersecurity. 15:59”
“There are many other aspects of improving Scotland’s cyber resilience that I hope will be considered in today’s debate, such as the need for regulation to reduce the harms associated with AI technology, including deepfakes, and the need to ensure that digital technology that is used in the public sector is better protected from cyberattacks. I welcome the action that the Scottish Government is taking, such as its recent announcement on deepfakes. The second theme that emerged in evidence to the committee in relation to tackling cybercrime was the need for the Scottish Government to invest more in cybersecurity. Organisations ranging from the Cyber and Fraud Centre Scotland to the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service have identified the need for further investment.”
“The Online Safety Act 2023 has now come into force, and I urge the Scottish Government to work with the UK Government and Ofcom to ensure that it is effective, especially in the light of the fact that reports of online child abuse in Scotland have doubled in a year. The Scottish Government should also make representations to the UK Government and Ofcom on ensuring that the provisions in the Online Safety Act 2023 that are designed to tackle fraudulent online advertising are implemented as soon as possible, and I encourage ministers to engage with the UK Government and Ofcom on how the Cyber Security and Resilience (Network and Information Systems) Bill will be implemented in Scotland, should it be passed at Westminster.”
“The £300,000 that has been allocated for an upskilling fund to strengthen cybersecurity skills across the public sector is also very welcome. However, I believe that the Scottish Government must do more to educate everybody—in particular, young men and boys—on the harmful effect that far-right and misogynistic online content can have on their behaviour, and to tackle the resulting sexism, misogyny and violence in schools. That is why I again call on the Scottish Government to bring forward a cross-campus strategy to tackle the issue. I think that that is relevant to today’s debate. Although education is vital in improving cyber resilience, we must also look at other avenues to achieve that aim, such as legislation.”
“Previous results from the Scottish crime and justice survey found that nearly 5 per cent of internet users in Scotland had experienced computer viruses, received scam emails or had banking details stolen online. In addition, the Scottish household survey found that nearly 10 per cent of all adults in Scotland did not take any online security measures, such as not opening emails from unknown senders or not sharing personal information online. That is why some of the proposals in the Scottish Government’s cyber resilient Scotland framework that focus on improving cyber learning are welcome. Embedding cyber learning in the school curriculum, expanding the availability of cyber learning resources and improving access to cyber learning opportunities for adults are all practical steps.”
“Whether we look at cybercrime statistics or examples of cyberattacks, it is clear that cybercrime is an issue that affects all of Scotland, including individuals and organisations. Two common themes emerged in the evidence that the committee heard on how we can better protect ourselves from cybercrime. The first theme was that the current state of Scotland’s cyber resilience is inadequate and must be improved. Digital participation in Scotland has continued to increase, particularly among older people, and more than 90 per cent of adults now use the internet for work or personal activities. That is to be welcomed, but it brings greater risks of cybercrime.”
“In recent years, several high-profile cyberattacks have been launched against private companies and public bodies across Scotland— major companies such as Marks and Spencer, the Co-op, Adidas and H&M have been hit by cyberattacks this year alone. NatWest provided alarming evidence to the committee that its customers have to be protected from more than 100 million cyberattacks every month. Earlier this year, Glasgow City Council, the City of Edinburgh Council and West Lothian Council all suffered cyberattacks that were aimed at disrupting online education services. Hackers managed to access a significant amount of information from NHS Dumfries and Galloway last year, including the confidential details of staff and patients. In 2020, SEPA endured one of Scotland’s worst-ever cyberattacks, when thousands of its digital files were stolen.”
“I am pleased to open on behalf of Scottish Labour. As a member of the Criminal Justice Committee, I thank my fellow committee members, the committee clerks and all stakeholders who were involved in the committee’s work on the issue. The committee’s report is important and timely. Cybercrime rates across Scotland are at a significant level. As Sharon Dowey said, more than 14,000 cybercrimes were recorded in Scotland last year—a number that remains well above pre-pandemic levels. Cybercrime amounted to 5 per cent of all crimes recorded in Scotland last year, but digital technology and online spaces are being used to carry out more traditional crimes, too. We can see that from the fact that cybercrime accounted for 27 per cent of all sexual crimes reported last year.”
“The Deputy Presiding Officer: We have a little additional time this afternoon, so I will call the final two speakers who want to ask a question.”
“It would be remiss of me to prejudge the outcome of those investigations. Alexis Jay has been clear over the past few weeks, including today at the Education, Children and Young People Committee, that the evidence base does not yet exist to substantiate the need for further inquiries. We require the evidence base to be built, which is what the four inspectorates have been tasked with doing. They are undertaking that work at pace. On Katy Clark’s question on the Scottish child abuse inquiry, I think that that is the approach that Lady Smith set out and that is our understanding of the terms of reference of the inquiry. However, I will write to the member specifically on that detail, to give her clarity on that point.”
“Survivors have lost confidence, so can the cabinet secretary outline what kind of further inquiry might take place? For example, is it a full public inquiry that is being considered? What would be its remit and timescale? Who is doing the work on that? Can she clarify whether the terms of reference of the Scottish child abuse inquiry include abuse of children who were in care when the abuse took place where the abuse took place outside the care setting and by perpetrators who were not employed in the care sector or connected to it? Jenny Gilruth: Two weeks ago, I set out to Parliament the approach that we are taking through the four inspectorates and established their responsibilities. They will come back to provide the evidence base to the national strategic group, which will then provide advice to ministers.”