Katy Clark
Scottish Labour · Scotland
“I welcome the fact that we are taking steps to reduce the prison population, but there needs to be a wider discussion—I think that we are all agreed on that. Community justice must be expanded.”
“The chamber has been designed so that members speak through the chair, which also means that the microphones will work. If you face me, your microphone should work. Alyn Smith: I am grateful to Amanda Bland for her comment. She is a good colleague on the Criminal Justice Committee, and, as ever, that was a sensible question.”
“Yesterday, I met constituents outside the Parliament who are concerned about the potential impact on local communities and the environment of the energy consumption of proposed AI data centres in Irvine, Bishopbriggs and Hunterston, in my region. At least 24 controversial sites are being considered across Scotland.”
“The member cannot take an intervention, as she is already in additional time. Pauline McNeill: I will conclude with a specific point on deaths in custody, which the Criminal Justice Committee had a brief chat about on Wednesday morning.”
“I move amendment S7M-00469.2, to insert at end: “; is concerned that the current prison population crisis is chronically hampering effective rehabilitation; calls on the Scottish Government to increase its investment in GPS technology and speed up its roll out, and notes that the current approach to rehabilitation, community justice and e…”
“I understand that there is a request for national guidance, but that would be a deviation from where we are as a Parliament. However, if the mood of the Parliament is changing, the Government is open to listening, and that is a conversation to be had.”
The complete record
Every one of 635 lines we hold for Katy Clark, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 8 of 13.
“To ask the Scottish Government what steps it is taking to protect and improve ferry services to Scotland’s island communities. (S6O-05284)”
“Its members are the experts and, as we have done this year, we follow their advice on the most effective use of the vaccine. I reiterate that anyone who is eligible should make sure that they take up the vaccine, because there are still more in the eligible groups who could take up the vaccine to help themselves, their families, loved ones and colleagues, and our health systems. I know that health boards are doing all that they can to make that as available as possible, including for staff of health and social care services, with drop-in clinics and peer-to-peer vaccination happening, too.”
“Scotland is experiencing what is said to be the worst flu death season in more than four decades, and changes to vaccination eligibility, to which the cabinet secretary referred, have meant that an additional half a million people were not offered the flu vaccine. Is the Scottish Government reconsidering eligibility and whether it should be extended to those aged 50 to 64? Neil Gray: It is difficult to say for certain what this flu season will end up looking like, but the trajectories at the moment are following the very same path as last year, when there was an unprecedented level of flu in the system, which caused clear disruption to patients and the system. We take our vaccination advice on a United Kingdom-wide basis from the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation.”
“I am enormously sympathetic to and supportive of a future for the yard. That is why the Government has committed investment to support the yard, which will be available to the yard at the moment when it is appropriate for it to be deployed. We are open to working with the yard to strengthen its competitive position to enable it to win vessel contracts and take those forward on an on-going basis. That remains the focus of the Government’s intervention on the issue.”
“There is a strong economic and social case for a direct award to the yard, and I urge the First Minister to support such an award. A decision on the contract has been delayed for far too long and the workforce deserves clarity, so will the First Minister undertake to ensure that there is a speedy decision? If he cannot commit to a direct award of the contract today, will he commit to supporting Ferguson’s through other avenues, such as the second round of the small vessel replacement programme, and the delivery—in full—of the promised £14.2 million investment? The First Minister: As I indicated in my earlier answers—and I think that Katy Clark will appreciate these points—there are complex issues of a legal nature, in relation to subsidy control, that the Government simply cannot ignore.”
“That is why we believe that the review is required and we will support the Scottish Government in that work. However, we believe that it is likely that the review will lead to an inquiry.”
“Taylor herself has called on the First Minister to establish an inquiry, and Scottish Labour supports her in that call. We believe that an inquiry is vital if we are to establish why there has been a lack of intervention and investigation into cases such as Taylor’s. The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children has rightly stressed the need for ministerial leadership to establish the true scale of child abuse and exploitation, particularly in relation to group-based abuse. Although we think that the Scottish Government has been slow to call for an inquiry and show leadership on the issue of group-based sexual exploitation and abuse, we believe that the review can help to determine the extent of grooming in Scotland and the remit of any inquiry.”
“I understand that the First Minister previously stated that the Scottish Government is doing work on child protection policies and practices through the national child sexual abuse and exploitation strategic group. It would be helpful if he could clarify how survivors and other relevant stakeholders are being engaged in that work to ensure that there is no further exploitation of vulnerable children and young people in the future. Members have rightly highlighted the recent powerful testimony of Taylor, the care-experienced survivor of human trafficking and child abuse, and have talked about many other children. All the bodies that we have spoken about in the debate have, in the past, failed to take the necessary safeguarding and reporting actions.”
“We believe that independent oversight of the audit is appropriate and that it would not undermine the operational independence of Police Scotland. We welcome the appointment of Professor Alexis Jay and reiterate our view that that role needs to be independent and have full, unfettered access to all information and records. Pauline McNeill and Rona Mackay spoke about the audit that was undertaken by Baroness Casey in relation to group-based abuse and exploitation of children and young people in England and Wales. Although we recognise that many of Baroness Casey’s recommendations apply to other parts of the UK, we think it appropriate that the Scottish Government look at that work and provide an update to identify what can be implemented in relation to any recommendations in Scotland.”
“Katy Clark: I disagree with the member on that, but she is absolutely correct to say—as I said— that the Scottish Police Authority already stands as an independent governance body for policing in Scotland. However, having served on the Criminal Justice Committee for more than four years with the member, I still say that there is a need for far greater scrutiny of policing in Scotland. The committee is very aware of that. The Scottish Government has previously commissioned independent reviews into police complaints, such as those that were undertaken by Lady Elish Angiolini. Police Scotland has also established independent oversight bodies such as the equality, diversity, inclusion and human rights independent review group.”
“Independent oversight is not uncommon or inappropriate in relation to Police Scotland reviews and audits. The Scottish Police Authority already stands— Audrey Nicoll: Will the member give way? Katy Clark: Yes, I will take an intervention from the convener of the Criminal Justice Committee. Audrey Nicoll: I want to highlight the points that I made earlier with regard to the scrutiny that already exists above Police Scotland from the Scottish Police Authority. Police Scotland is accountable to the SPA and a range of other organisations. I am not sure that there is a lack of scrutiny, although I accept the point that the member is making about independent oversight.”
“It will be vital in helping to build a clearer picture of the scale of such abuse and exploitation across Scotland, and it will contribute to the on-going work of the National Crime Agency’s operation Beaconport, which forms a broader UK law enforcement approach to the issue. If the audit identifies any potential cases for reinvestigation, that will hopefully lead to convictions for those who have engaged in such crimes. However, members have rightly questioned whether the audit will inspire the confidence and trust of victims. After all, Police Scotland has been accused of failing victims of group-based sexual exploitation and abuse. That is why Scottish Labour believes that independent oversight of the audit is vital if Police Scotland is to have the confidence and trust of victims.”
“Children and young people who are subjected to such appalling abuse and exploitation deserve justice, including a commitment from the Parliament and the Scottish Government that all steps will be taken to ensure that such crimes never happen again. I welcome the announcement from Police Scotland last week that there will be an audit to identify any child grooming gangs that have been reported to the force since 2013. We know that there are significant problems with child abuse and grooming in Scotland, and the audit will be key in helping to identify patterns, trends or concerns in relation to the demographics of suspects and offenders.”
“Scottish Labour lodged the motion because we believe that there must be accountability, transparency and justice, and we believe that the Scottish Government has been complacent on group- based sexual exploitation and abuse. The individuals, organisations and public bodies that fail to protect children and young people, especially girls, must be held to account for their failings, and we believe that victims and survivors must have confidence in that process. We need full transparency from the Government, police, local authorities and other relevant bodies about how and why those failings have occurred.”
“We all know that there will not be a custody suite in every community, but we must have the right spread of custody suites, in the right locations across the country, for the practical reasons that the member has outlined.”
“I am glad that the cabinet secretary seems to agree that we should have a police station in Greenock. As she said, one of the concerns that has been raised is about the loss of the custody suite. More generally, does she agree that it is important that we continue to have custody suites in local areas? Will she use the opportunity of her meeting with Police Scotland to raise that issue and to impress on the organisation the importance of having local custody suites to reduce the time that is spent escorting people when they are taken into custody? Angela Constance: I reassure the member that, in my discussions with Police Scotland, it has always conveyed to me that where custody suites are located is a key strategic decision.”
“The Deputy Presiding Officer: I call Maggie Chapman to open the debate on behalf of the Scottish Greens. You have up to six minutes. 15:20”
“For example, we must introduce a cross-campus strategy in all our schools to address sexism, misogyny and the growing influence of far-right social media on the behaviour of young men and boys in schools and other educational institutions across Scotland. I welcome today’s debate, but I hope that, in the coming budget, ministers will provide sustainable funding for support services for women and girls, including funding for an expansion of the pilot of independent legal representation for rape victims and reliable funding for Rape Crisis and Scottish Women’s Aid. Scottish Labour will support the Scottish Government’s motion due to our shared commitment to tackling violence against women and girls, but we are clear that more can and must be done, and we will work across the chamber to achieve that.”
“Domestic abuse and sexual crimes are reportedly on the rise. Cuts have been made to funding for Rape Crisis and other support services for women and girls who experience violence. In my region, there are campaigns for closed-circuit television to be installed in parks after rape and sexual assaults have taken place. Our train network has fewer staff and reduced ticket office opening hours. As Tess White said, the Scottish Government also abandoned its misogyny bill. There are clear actions that the Scottish Government could take now that would help to tackle violence against women and girls.”
“Unite, the RMT and the TSSA have highlighted the increase in violence and sexual attacks on our trains and buses, particularly against female members of staff. The transport unions are calling for a specific offence of assaulting a public sector transport worker, similar to the one that we created for retail workers. Sexual harassment is endemic in Scotland’s workplaces, with nearly 10 per cent of women workers having experienced work-related sexual assault. However, despite the alarming scale of violence across Scotland, we must accept that Government efforts have been largely ineffective in tackling the issue. Just a third of Scotland’s schools are signed up to the equally safe programme. Less than half of the rape and attempted rape cases that make it to court result in a conviction.”
“Although the Scottish Government’s motion focuses on digital violence, we must also recognise that the issue affects women and girls in all areas of life, including in public spaces such as schools and workplaces. I commend trade unions such as Unite, Unison, the Educational Institute of Scotland, the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers, the Transport Salaried Staffs Association, the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers and many others that have published reports in recent years outlining the growing scale of the problem. The NASUWT found that nearly half of female teachers in Scotland have experienced physical abuse or violence from pupils in the past year. The public sector trade union Unison has exposed the shocking rates of violence faced by workers across the public sector.”
“Earlier in this parliamentary session, I was pleased to lead, alongside Pauline McNeill MSP, Scottish Labour’s consultation on ending violence against women and girls. Respondents to our consultation made it clear that there must be better controls available on online platforms and that social media companies should be legally accountable for online violence that occurs on their platforms. Although the Online Safety Act 2023 and Ofcom’s new guidelines on improving online safety for women and girls are welcome, there is clearly much more that can be done, such as exploring the introduction of legal requirements for social media companies. Respondents also highlighted the need for Police Scotland to be better resourced and for specific offences to be created in relation to cyberflashing and the creation of intimate images.”
“Six in 10 of the women who have experienced online violence also reported enduring negative impacts on their mental health and wellbeing. Women and girls across Scotland lack confidence in the Scottish Government and Police Scotland to tackle online violence. More than three quarters of women who reported online violence were not satisfied with the outcome, and more than 60 per cent of women believe that the police lack the necessary resources to tackle online violence. Women and girls in Scotland are more likely to seek support from friends than from the police when they experience online violence, and less than 15 per cent of women have confidence that the Scottish Government is doing all that it can to tackle online violence.”
“Digital tools have empowered men and boys to engage in new kinds of abuse and violence, such as revenge porn, deepfakes, catfishing and trolling. I welcome the cabinet secretary’s proposal on deepfakes and I look forward to considering it in detail. Digital violence also negatively impacts the mental health and wellbeing of women and girls. It often leads to offline forms of abuse and violence, including femicide. The level of digital violence that is experienced and witnessed by women and girls in Scotland is particularly shocking. More than a third of women in Scotland have witnessed online violence and more than one in six have experienced it. Online violence is an even greater problem among younger women in Scotland, with nearly 30 per cent of 16 to 24-year-olds having experienced it.”
“I am pleased to open the debate for Scottish Labour and to reaffirm our support for the 16 days of activism against gender-based violence. For more than 30 years, the 16 days campaign has raised international awareness of gender- based violence and the need for action to tackle it. We commend the work of the campaign and the thousands of organisations, including those in Scotland, that have supported it. This year’s 16 days campaign is welcome, as it highlights the growing threat that online spaces, services and technologies pose in relation to gender-based violence. Digital violence is now one of the fastest- growing forms of the abuse of women and girls, with digital tools being used by men to engage in harassment and abuse on a daily basis.”
“It is very concerning that the legislation that was passed by the Parliament five years ago to give women and girls extra protection from genital mutilation remains unimplemented. That failure has directly impacted women and girls in Scotland, including the more than 1,200 who have been treated for genital mutilation in Glasgow over the past five years. Will the minister commit to meeting members from all the front benches, to discuss how we can ensure that the legislation’s implementation happens before the parliamentary session ends? Will she also accept that, if that is the timetable, it is completely unacceptable? Kaukab Stewart: I am happy to meet any members who are interested in pursuing the issue at their convenience.”
“To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to the report by the Auditor General into the financial sustainability of NHS Ayrshire and Arran, which found that the board is facing a deficit of £33.1 million in the current year. (S6O-05198)”
“Although the bill requires local authorities and relevant public bodies to publish their action plans, it contains no specific requirements for what should be included in those plans. I reiterate the concern that, without proper resourcing and support from the Scottish Government, and with no clear action plan requirements, community wealth building will be implemented inconsistently across the country. The bill also fails to deliver further economic levers for local authorities to ensure ambitious and wide- reaching community wealth building approaches. I hope that the minister will reflect on the issues that have been raised in the debate and that, at stage 2, we can be more ambitious with a clearer bill that can deliver community wealth building for communities throughout Scotland. 15:57”
“North Ayrshire demonstrates that community wealth building can be successful, which is why it is important that we get the bill right. However, as it stands, the bill lacks ambition and scope. I agree with the points that Richard Leonard and Lorna Slater made. I also agree with the points made by members from various political parties—Kevin Stewart, Maurice Golden and Jamie Greene— about the need to seriously consider procurement and local spending. The bill provides a framework that requires ministers to publish a statement, but there is no detail on what that statement should entail in resourcing and other support from the Scottish Government to make community wealth building a reality.”
“I could list many examples, but I will just give a few: 26 per cent of North Ayrshire Council’s total procurement spend now goes to local businesses; the council’s community benefits wish list has ensured that public sector contractors deliver on the needs of local communities, such as the transformation of a former army barracks into a thriving community centre in Barrmill; the skills for life vocational programme for parents delivered more than 130 placements with the council and 45 placements with wider public and third sector organisations between 2017 and 2022; a former steelworks site has been developed into the Lochshore park hub; the construction of three solar farms has been supported to meet local energy needs; and Kilwinning-based Shuttle Buses has been transitioned to employee ownership, empowering all 70 members of staff in the process.”
“Indeed, the council used its existing levers, such as procurement, local spend, and land and assets, to deliver on community wealth building. The council also brought together various local bodies, such as Ayrshire College and NHS Ayrshire and Arran, to help to make community wealth building a success. It is clear that community wealth building has been a success in North Ayrshire.”
“I welcome the Scottish Government’s political support for community wealth building through the introduction of its bill. Community wealth building offers an economic approach that can help local economies to create well-paid, secure jobs, promote fair work principles and meet the needs of local communities. I pay tribute to Councillor Joe Cullinane and the then Labour administration in North Ayrshire for their pioneering work on community wealth building. As the first council in Scotland to launch a community wealth building strategy, North Ayrshire rejected the failed economic model that has increased inequality, hoarded wealth in the hands of a few and hollowed out public services. Instead, the council’s strategy prioritised a different approach, which used its economic levers for the benefit of local people.”
“We need to rise to the climate challenge by having a serious debate about how we ensure that we meet our climate challenges in a way that benefits our economy as part of an industrial strategy that delivers for every community in Scotland. The Deputy Presiding Officer: Clare Adamson is the final speaker in the open debate. 15:40”
“I agree with the Greens that we cannot keep developing new oil and gas. However, we have to do that as part of a just transition, so I also support the offshore trade unions and the workforce in their demand for a plan. A number of members have already made the point that we cannot respond to the challenge by importing foreign oil and gas to replace North Sea oil production. Norway and Denmark are issuing new oil and gas production licences alongside historically high investment in offshore renewables. It cannot be acceptable that we support extraction elsewhere. The trade unions need to be centrally involved in developing a just transition. I do not believe that there has ever been a just transition for working class communities when industrial change has taken place. Working class communities see no sign of that happening now.”
“We have to be honest that not enough is being done to ensure good quality job creation and to develop the new sectors that would provide local benefits. Richard Lochhead: The member referred to job losses in the oil and gas sector in the north- east of Scotland; I represent the Moray constituency in that area. Does the member realise that one of the key reasons, if not the key reason, that is being cited by the industry for job losses is the energy profits levy, which urgently needs to be reformed, changed or scrapped? Katy Clark: I do not accept that. I am happy to discuss it in more detail another day. I have already referenced some of the profits that are being made in the sector. My primary role today is to hold the minister’s Government to account and talk about what this Parliament can do within our powers.”
“In the chamber, we have spoken about thousands of onshore and offshore jobs that have already been lost, despite oil companies continuing to pay massive dividends. One of those companies, Ithaca, has already been mentioned in the debate. In August, the North Sea oil giant paid £127 million in dividends for the first quarter of 2025, with total pay-outs set to reach around £388 million this year. There is no just transition for the workers who are losing their jobs. As Liam Kerr said, in October, STUC research showed that only one job is being created for every £1 million in turnover in onshore and offshore wind. The figure across other renewables sectors is not significantly higher. We do not build wind turbines—we import them, and we are not reaping the economic benefits of any green industrial revolution.”
“I welcome the fact that the Scottish Greens have brought this timely debate to the chamber. For life on this planet to be tolerable, we have to address the climate challenge and we must move away from our reliance on oil and gas. We cannot overestimate the challenge that we face. In 2024, the highest concentration—in human history—of carbon dioxide in our atmosphere was recorded. The rise in global temperatures has meant that the past decade was the warmest on record. The International Energy Agency has said that, if we are to achieve the target of limiting the global temperature rise to within 1.5°C, there can be no new oil and gas developments internationally. Scottish Government policy is in favour of a just transition. However, we have to be honest: the transition has started and it is not just.”
“Has the Scottish Government had any discussions with the UK Government about the proscription of Palestine Action? Have ministers received any security briefings or made any representations, given the arrests at protests in Scotland? Siobhian Brown: I have not had any discussions with or correspondence from the UK Government. I think that the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs has, and she will be happy to write to the member with regard to that.”
“To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to reported comments by Professor Catriona Matheson, former chair of the drug deaths task force, that the national mission on drug deaths has failed to deliver robust, evidence-based clinical care for people affected by drug use, due to clinical and practitioner expertise being sidelined. (S6T-02748)”
“To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to the decision by Strathclyde Partnership for Transport to progress with proposals for bus franchising. (S6O-05042)”
“Work with young people to emphasise that it is never safe to carry a knife and that there is absolutely no prestige in doing so is crucial. Other work that is being funded by the Scottish Government via the Scottish Violence Reduction Unit includes the delivery of preventative education inputs in areas where violence is higher. That is a very targeted approach. The Scottish Violence Reduction Unit is, in partnership, developing a deterrence support package for the young people who are at the highest risk of such offending. Age-of-sale Offences (Age-restricted Items) 3.”
“As the cabinet secretary said, the No Knives, Better Lives programme has been successful. It has been credited with helping to reduce the number of young people who have been convicted of handling knives by 85 per cent since 2008. However, despite a recent increase in knife crimes, there has been a 12 per cent real-terms reduction in the funding of No Knives, Better Lives since 2022. In the forthcoming budget, will the cabinet secretary look at the issue again, reinstate the funding and consider what further the programme can do? Angela Constance: In relation to funding, we will of course look at all matters that support community safety. It is imperative to say that there is never any justification for any form of violence, and that includes the carrying of knives.”
“However, we also recognise that far wider issues surround the resourcing of our courts and the state of legal aid, so we remain concerned that, although some of the provisions are very welcome, a great deal more work needs to be done to address the significant backlogs in our courts system. 16:23”
“We urge the cabinet secretary to address the issues that relate to membership of the proposed review oversight committee that have been raised by Scottish Women’s Aid—specifically, to ensure the proper representation of victim support groups, including those that deal on the front line with violence against women and girls. We support the bill. We very much hope that its provisions will allow a modernisation of the courts that improves the experience of those who use them—victims and witnesses—and that will help to address the considerable backlogs that still exist.”
“We welcome the creation in part 2 of the bill of a framework to review domestic homicides and suicides, and we agree with the comments that that has perhaps not had the scrutiny that it should have had, given that it deals with a gap in existing legislation and frameworks. We should remember that similar provisions already exist in England and Wales, and that the ways in which England and Wales deal with such things is very different. We recognise the vital work that victim support groups have played in developing the framework, but we also believe that we need to look closely at how reviews have worked in other jurisdictions in the United Kingdom.”
“I welcome the fact that the cabinet secretary has indicated clearly that she will engage with Scottish Women’s Aid and other organisations on the issues that they raise. As well as increasing the use of virtual attendance, the bill seeks to allow cases in which a person appears from police custody to take place in any sheriff court in Scotland. We recognise that that could lead to savings in court costs—in particular, in the costs of transferring prisoners around the country. However, many organisations, such as the Law Society of Scotland, have rightly raised the importance of local justice. Those issues must also be given adequate consideration.”
“Work needs to be done to ensure that locations offer a strong video and wi-fi connection and good picture quality. We heard evidence that that has been a problem in the courts over the past five years. The Scottish Government must address the concerns of Scottish Women’s Aid and other organisations about the bill’s provisions on virtual attendance. Scottish Women’s Aid has argued that the provisions do not go far enough in protecting women, children and young people who experience domestic abuse. As has been said in the debate, I think, the committee did not look at that in detail during our scrutiny of the process. Even at this late stage, we need to give thought to it, and I am sure that the Scottish Government will be thinking about that as we move forward.”
“Members have spoken about the bill’s provisions for virtual attendance at court proceedings. Those provisions were introduced temporarily during the pandemic and we believe that making them permanent will both increase their use and help to reduce the backlog that still exists in courts. Many victims groups, and the legal sector, have welcomed making virtual attendance a permanent feature of our court system. However, we urge the Scottish Government to do more to ensure that virtual attendance is always safe and free from interference. We accept that, regardless of whether the bill’s provisions on virtual attendance are absolutely and utterly watertight, the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service sees it as an inherent part of the system.”
“It is clear that increased use of digital documents and evidence will be vital to modernising the court system. However, there is also a need to ensure that physical evidence can continue to be available in criminal cases if requested. Labour members made those arguments during today’s debate, as well as earlier in the bill process. Greater use of digital documents and evidence also raises questions about digital inclusion, which the Scottish Government must address. Audit Scotland has previously highlighted the fact that 15 per cent of adults lack foundational digital skills, such as knowing how to turn on a digital device, and the Scottish Council for Voluntary Organisations has called on the Scottish Government to publish a digital inclusion action plan.”
“I am pleased to close the debate for Scottish Labour. Many of the changes in part 1 of the bill were introduced during the pandemic, with the Scottish Government now seeking to make them permanent. Although we are generally supportive of that, we have some concerns about how far some provisions in the bill might extend. We are particularly concerned about whether too many decisions will be left to the discretion of the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service and whether that service is properly resourced to deliver the changes set out in the bill. Although the Scottish Government has given assurances that there will be no overreach, we believe that monitoring will be necessary to ensure that the provisions do not in any way hinder justice.”