Graham Stuart
MP for Beverley and Holderness · Conservative · United Kingdom
“I hope and expect that we can move forward in the right way and get the balance right between being overly prescriptive to the banking industry and setting a clear sense of direction to make sure that no one is left behind, as so many Members have set out.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Wishart. I congratulate the hon. Member for South Devon (Caroline Voaden) on securing this debate.”
“Is my hon. Friend as astonished as I am that the Minister—I know she is new to her post—has come here to propose a six-month extension of the movement of costs from bills to the Exchequer and cannot tell the Committee how much money that will cost?”
“The Minister is being most generous again. I did not ask her about protecting consumers from energy price shocks; I asked about a clear, unequivocal manifesto pledge to reduce household energy bills by £300. She, like her predecessors, refuses to address it directly. It was a clear promise.”
“Banking hubs themselves came out of an industry response from the NatWest executive. Does the Minister agree that we must present the information from the Lloyd review to the banking groups, be clear about what we want, and give them the opportunity to respond and provide a solution, as they did with banking hubs, so that we can perhaps a…”
“I am pleased to say that Lloyds listened and, as of this morning, people can deposit cheques at those places. These issues being raised by Members across the House today are important. I trust that given the timing of the Richard Lloyd report, the Minister in her seat will make sure that they are be resolved to everyone’s satisfaction.”
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“That payment comes on top of the package of unprecedented assistance with energy bills that the UK Government have already provided, including the energy price guarantee, which has reduced the energy costs of every family, and the energy bills discount scheme, which has reduced them for every business in Northern Ireland as well. As the hon. Gentleman rightly highlighted, we are here not just to think about the short term and this winter, but to look to next winter and all the winters to come, as we seek to build a secure energy supply that drives up growth, drives down bills and meets our net zero ambitions. The best way to do that is by investing in affordable, reliable, clean energy, because energy security and net zero go hand in hand. The Government take their net zero commitment absolutely seriously.”
“In that context, the Government were and are determined to do all they can to help the people of this country, including those in Northern Ireland. In December, I was delighted to announce that all households in Northern Ireland would receive a single, one-off £600 payment to help with their energy bills. Payments will start this month. The funding has been provided to the energy suppliers to go out to those families. I hear the points that the hon. Gentleman made about the practicalities of that. In a market for which we are not normally responsible, we were determined to find a way to reach them, and we did that. I pay tribute to my officials who put in an astonishing amount of work to stand that up and get it going.”
“I congratulate the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). As I look around the Chamber, I am taken back to that Westminster Hall debate to which he referred; it feels like the gang is back together. This is an important debate, and I am pleased to see that he continues to be a champion for his constituents on the subject. I also see colleagues who were at that debate, including the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael), who led it. I will touch on energy support, which the hon. Gentleman referred to. After Putin’s barbarous invasion of Ukraine, we saw people’s energy bills soaring, and they were forced to turn their minds to the meter before turning up the thermostat in their homes.”
“I am sure that Members were, like me, delighted that last year the Government established a ringfenced budget of £20 million for tidal stream developments in pot 2 of the fourth contracts for difference allocation round. This saw four tidal stream projects win contracts totalling 40 MW at a strike price of £178.54 per MWh. To put that into perspective, only 36 MW of tidal stream was deployed worldwide between 2010 and 2020. This is the first time that tidal stream power has been procured at this scale.”
“That leads me naturally on to our system. What we try to do across all technologies, places and companies is to create an architecture that is fair, transparent and predictable—as much as that is possible. It therefore does not depend on me being sold on any particular company or solution, but allows, through decent mechanisms, the best to rise to the top. That is very much our aim. Much of the success of tidal stream to date is down to contracts for difference, which the Government have produced and which I am delighted about. This is our flagship mechanism for supporting the cost-effective delivery of renewable energy, ensuring that the nation’s tidal stream innovators have the opportunity to bring down the costs of the technology and learn the lessons from being the first in the world to deploy it at scale.”
“We will see what happens with the CfDs and make an announcement in due course, but assuming that we get the broad architecture right, given the state of tidal stream—I will leave leadership for the moment—I am hopeful for the future. The hon. Gentleman mentioned a visit. I would be delighted to accept, in due course—”
“That includes a sound track record of supporting the tidal stream industry, where we are on the cusp of commercialisation. With excellent export potential, we are ready to lead the world, and I am confident that the tidal stream industry will continue to develop across every corner of the United Kingdom as we work together to bring green growth to each one of our countries. In the seconds that remain, I want to go back to the questions that the hon. Gentleman asked. One was about the tidal taskforce, which I am happy to discuss further with him. Having a taskforce for everything is not necessarily the right thing; I want to make sure that we have the right architecture.”
“It is not just Strangford lough; we continue to invest in renewable energy across Northern Ireland. Through UK Research and Innovation, we have provided Artemis Technologies with £33 million from the Strength in Places fund to drive the decarbonisation of maritime transport. Last year, Wrightbus secured an £11.2 million investment from the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy to develop a low-cost hydrogen fuel cell technology and create a hydrogen centre of excellence—all part of a £54 million package. In conclusion, it is clear that this Government are taking action on all elements of energy in Northern Ireland. We are bringing energy bills down right now, and we are harnessing the power of clean, secure, affordable energy to build an economy that is fit for the future.”
“Member for Strangford and all those involved for their support in making the pilot project a success. Strangford lough is a world first: a commercial-scale tidal energy project that by September 2012 had produced 5 GWh of tidal power since its commissioning in 2008—equivalent to the annual power consumption of 1,500 households. Strangford shows that tidal can work; it was a major demonstrator in that sense. It shows that it is safe, too: I am delighted that Strangford lough has had no major impact on marine life, for instance. That is why we have provided it with £5.2 million of funding, in addition to £500,000 from Northern Ireland Electricity under its Smart scheme. In 2011, the project qualified to benefit from the marine renewables deployment fund, after passing the UK Government’s operating performance criteria.”
“Further information—we released some information before Christmas—for AR5 will come out shortly ahead of the launch of AR5, which of course has now been moved on to an annual basis, giving further confidence, I hope, to the market. The energy transition must involve each and every part of our United Kingdom. As an integral part of the UK, that of course means Northern Ireland where, energy being a devolved matter, contracts for difference do not actually operate. However, in the Northern Ireland energy strategy, Northern Ireland set out a path to net zero energy and to meet 70% of electricity consumption from a diverse mix of renewable sources by 2030. The Government are committed to supporting Northern Ireland to succeed in that. If we are to get it right, places like Strangford lough will be critical. I thank the hon.”
“The OPSS may impose existing civil sanctions, including a monetary penalty, on heat suppliers that fail to comply with requirements to notify, to join the redress scheme or to provide information. The monetary penalty has been modified, providing for a maximum penalty of £5,000 to provide an effective deterrent to non-compliance.”
“I hope that Members will applaud the statutory instrument, which amends the existing pass-through regulations, introducing a requirement on heat suppliers to send a simple notification to provide information to the Secretary of State by 6 January 2023—a date that has now passed. That information, which includes the heat supplier’s name, business address and contact details, will be shared with the energy ombudsman and the Consumer Council for Northern Ireland to support their handling of domestic and microbusiness consumer complaints. The information will also be shared with the Office for Product Safety and Standards for enforcement purposes. The SI strengthens the OPSS’s enforcement powers, enabling it to request information from suspected heat suppliers to determine whether they fall within the scope of the regulations.”
“I beg to move, That the Committee has considered the Energy Bill Relief Scheme Pass-through Requirement (Heat Suppliers) (Amendment) Regulations 2022 (S.I. 2022, No. 1280). It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dame Caroline. The regulations were laid before the House on 6 December 2022. We have already passed legislation concerning the energy bill relief scheme pass-through requirement for heat suppliers, which ensures that benefits from the scheme, known as the EBRS, are passed through to end consumers on heat networks. That legislation also provides for a route to resolve disputes between consumers and heat networks on the pass-through requirement. I say that by way of introduction while wishing all Committee members a happy new year.”
“The EBRS, and the corresponding pass-through regulations, have been introduced as a critical component of support for consumers on heat networks, and the scheme complements other support that the Government are providing with energy and the cost of living. We expect that the notification requirements will facilitate the consumer complaints handling process and that strengthened enforcement powers will result in more heat suppliers passing on the EBRS discount to their customers, which is of course our aim. I commend the regulations to the Committee.”
“As I said, the instrument was laid before the House back in December. I cannot provide the Committee with an update at this precise moment, but I know that the information has been flowing in. If, through some wondrous form of refreshment, I am able to give the hon. Member further information about the precise legal status and the fines and so on, I will of course do so. The SI also amends the existing regulations to reduce the administrative burden on heat network companies. It removes the requirement for heat suppliers to provide information about the calculation of the benefit when they first notify end users about the scheme, while retaining the requirement to provide those calculations in the next bill.”
“If they do not, their customers may approach the ombudsman in Great Britain or the Consumer Council in Northern Ireland, which will confirm whether they are a heat supplier via the OPSS and then take action against them to ensure pass-through. Consolidation was raised. That is where we have one set of regulations that revoke all the old ones, instead of a string of amending regulations. It is rare to consolidate after one set of amendments, but we can consider that for future rounds. On the delay in making the SI, we engaged with suppliers, councils and others to ensure that it was workable. Again, there is always that balance between moving at speed to provide the support this winter and getting the legalities and practicalities right.”
“As has been said, the regulations were laid on 6 December and came into force on 7 December; I do not think that there has been any delay. Heat networks have been providing us with information and we have been getting on with it. That is what we seek to do. The regulations came into force the day after they were laid, and the fact that the debate on them is today—to respond to the question put by the hon. Member for Cardiff West—has no bearing on the legal situation. The Committee means that, under the affirmative procedure, the SI does not fall, as he knows from his many years in Parliament. The law has been clear since then, and I am glad that Members in all parts of the Committee support it. Suppliers that have not notified will be in breach of the regulations. Notified or not, all suppliers must enact the pass-through.”
“I thank the hon. Member for Southampton, Test for his typically informed but, I have to say, somewhat over-lengthy way of asking why we made a mistake. Rarely have I heard that question stated at such length. The point is that we did not get it right first time, and we have moved at pace across the whole complex world of energy systems to ensure that we look after people this winter. The challenge for me and the Department was to make sure that we moved at speed and to balance getting it right with moving at pace. Given two years, we could have had a perfect scheme, but we did not have that option. We had to look to get the right balance while moving at pace to deliver for people. The hon. Gentleman asked what delay there was.”
“Member for Cardiff West with reassurance that there is not some automatic imposition of a £5,000 fine on a particular micro-supplier.”
“Because I know he is an honest man, I think that the hon. Gentleman, on reflection—were he to do that this evening—might think that he somewhat mischaracterised the regulations. As to what will happen after 31 March, we will make arrangements after His Majesty’s Treasury announces its review of the EBRS for what goes on after that date. Also, for the betterment of the information available to the Committee, on the question whether microbusinesses will be fined £5,000 if they do not notify, that maximum monetary penalty will apply only if a heat supplier fails to comply with a compliance notice or enforcement undertaking relating to failure to comply with the notification requirement. I hope that provides the hon.”
“I think the hon. Gentleman knows that he utterly mischaracterises the regulations. We legislate all the time for every kind of group in business and society without a database of who they are. We have simply come forward with supplementary regulation, which we are agreeing to today, the better to ensure that the consumer groups that I would have thought he supports enthusiastically are empowered and given the information they need to protect consumers. It is not some egregious error; this is a positive addition. The law applies to those that run heat networks, regardless of whether we know who they are and have their address. As it happens, in order to make it more practicable and quicker to intervene, we are discussing the regulations we have laid. They are supplementary to what was sound legislation in order to deliver a sound policy.”
“I am not aware of the precise timings, but as I say, I hope that the Committee will be assured that a process will be gone through. I am pleased that heat networks have been providing the information. Before we laid the regulations, we reached out and had a meeting with 200 heat networks. We reached out through various organisations to ensure that that was as well known as possible.”
“We have a system of automatic payment to some, but in addition others need a portal application with phone support. With that, I hope that we have done more than adequate justice to this fairly simple set of legislative changes to ensure that we have the information needed in the right hands so that we make sure people are protected. Question put and agreed to . Resolved , That the Committee has considered the Energy Bill Relief Scheme Pass-through Requirement (Heat Suppliers) (Amendment) Regulations 2022 (S.I., 2022, No. 1280).”
“Whether they are absolutely set or an administrative choice in part, I do not know. If we have further information that it is useful to share with the Committee, I will certainly do so. The hon. Gentleman also raised the issue of Northern Ireland versus Great Britain. The energy markets in GB are very different from those in Northern Ireland. We have had to design bespoke measures at pace for each. Northern Ireland is a diverse market with a higher percentage of customers on alternative fuels. Other factors mean that it is most efficient to do things in that way there. I am pleased to reassure him, however, that most of those who are eligible for the alternative fuel payment in Scotland, for example, will receive it automatically, though some will necessarily need to apply.”
“That will put us in a position to be able to keep energy affordable for families but also make us industrially competitive. There is so much to play for. We have got to get the balance right, and CfDs have done a great job so far.”
“This is the first time that tidal stream power has been procured at this scale, and it provides the industry with a golden opportunity to demonstrate the cost-efficiency and proof of scalability that we need from our sources of renewable electricity. We hope that other technologies can follow offshore wind in its remarkable reduction in price over just two auctions—from 2015 to 2019 it went from £120 per megawatt-hour to £39.50—but we cannot assume that just because it happened with offshore wind, it will happen with everything. We want to create genuine competitive tension between the technologies because we want not only to take an accelerated path to net zero but to do so in a way that, in the end, brings the UK the lowest and most competitive electricity costs as a base part of our energy system.”
“It is now time for the developers to push on, to make good on their promises and their potential and to demonstrate the value for money and scalability that we need from our renewable energy technologies as we transition to an efficient and net zero-ready power sector. The fourth contracts for difference auction in July this year saw four tidal stream projects, totalling 40 MW, win contracts at a strike price of £178.54 per megawatt-hour. Three of the contracts were awarded in Scotland, to MeyGen and two Orbital projects in Orkney, and one was awarded in Wales, to Magallanes. To put that into perspective, only 36 MW of tidal stream has been deployed worldwide between 2010 and 2020. We really are making significant strides forward.”
“I welcome the contributions that have been made today by Members across the House, who have shared their passion for ensuring that we get our policies right so that we maximise the chances of companies staying in Scotland, Wales, England and Northern Ireland and maximise the economic benefits. As well as being good in itself, that will help us to maintain the coalition—this is quite unusual in this country—of the many people who agree that action on climate is the right thing to do and that it can bring prosperity as well as environmental benefit. The Government have delivered for the burgeoning tidal stream industry.”
“That support will ensure that the nation’s tidal stream innovators get the opportunity they need to bring their cost of energy down and learn the valuable and exportable —a point made by a number of hon. Members—lessons that come with being the first in the world to deploy a cutting-edge technology at scale. I have watched the transformation of offshore wind from my constituency in East Yorkshire, and if there is one thing I bring to this role—which is pretty overwhelming in terms of deploying all the technologies at speed, the grid and all the rest of it—it is a desperate desire to see us ensure we maximise our industrial and service capability so that we not only deliver at home, but build up a capability that can export and bring prosperity and a solution to the challenges globally.”
“Members will have been delighted that the Government established a ringfenced budget of £20 million for tidal stream developments in pot 2 of the fourth contracts for difference allocation round—AR 4—which has been referred to. The contracts for difference scheme is our flagship mechanism, and it has been mentioned that the Government are very proud of it. Well, we are very proud of it. It has helped the UK to move from a pretty pitiful position in—let me pick a year—2010, say, to a position today where, instead of less than 8% of our electricity coming from renewables, the figure is more than 40%. That is a transformation, and we have led Europe in that regard. The CfD scheme is our flagship mechanism for supporting the cost-effective delivery of renewable energy.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone, and I thank all those who have participated in the debate. Westminster Hall often shows the House in its best light, as we are able to focus on a specific issue such as this, and we have heard thoughtful contributions from across the Chamber. I congratulate the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) on securing this important debate. He has continued to be a champion for his constituents on this issue. The British energy security strategy affirms that the Government will aggressively explore renewable technologies, including the potential of tidal power to contribute to a net zero-compliant future.”
“We have a raft of brilliant developers designing and building tidal stream devices in the UK. That picture is so positive in large part because successive Governments have provided more than £175 million in innovation funding, of which more than £80 million has come since 2010. In 2018, thanks to the extensive support afforded under the renewables obligation mechanism, we were able to build the largest tidal stream-generating array in the world in the fast-moving waters of the Pentland firth.”
“Friend the Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham) on his chairmanship of the APPG, with the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland as his deputy chair. It is so important that we have these specialist interest groups, which can keep Government honest and act as a ginger group—a caucus—to make sure that we think about and get our policies right, so that the promise is delivered. Europe’s foremost tidal and wave energy testing centre—the European Marine Energy Centre—is on Orkney, as the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland said. We have new marine energy hubs developing on Anglesey and the Isle of Wight. In answer to the question asked by the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland, I would be very happy to meet him and discuss EMEC and its future.”
“The broad parameters of allocation round 5 will come out this month, and the more detailed criteria will come out on the eve of its launch in March. I can say no more than that, but I think the direction of travel is fairly clear. The results of allocation round 4 confirm that tidal stream is a home-grown industry of considerable promise, as colleagues have noted. The UK remains the world leader in tidal stream technologies, with half of the world’s deployment situated in UK waters. Given my passion when I came into this job, the last thing I want to see is British research and development and British invention turned into billion-dollar businesses in other places rather than here in the UK, which is what has happened so often. I want that development to happen here in the UK, and I want to work with colleagues. I congratulate my hon.”
“The right hon. Lady is absolutely right. Since taking this job—about three months ago now—I have been seized with the centrality of that issue. For all the fascinating issues with the different forms of deployment, if we do not have the grid to bring it all together, we will not have a successful system. I am co-chairman of the offshore wind acceleration taskforce as we seek to move from 13 GW of offshore wind, or whatever it is today, to 50 GW by 2030. That is our ambition, and one of the biggest challenges to that is making sure that we have the grid in place to do it, and are carrying colleagues with us while we do so. I am meeting with a group of colleagues today from East Anglia to discuss the onshore impact of that technology.”
“We are looking at more of a planned approach, and the second holistic network design will come out soon. Floating wind in the Celtic sea, for instance, will be included in that design.”
“I am still answering the question posed by the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts). The offshore wind acceleration taskforce has been working really hard with the regulators, including Scottish and other devolved regulators, because they have their own systems and agencies. We are trying to make sure that we streamline and avoid duplication, and that anything that can be done in parallel is done; we are looking to improve that. In a sense, offshore wind has been an exemplar for the overall grid system—that is not really the focus of this debate, but we are absolutely focused on that. We have got something called the holistic network design, trying to look at this issue in a more joined-up way for the first time, rather than just linear connections for individual ones, with the grid responding.”
“I have a serious problem with the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), which is that he is a very hard man to say no to—I do resent that. I will certainly try; I think other duties may take me to Northern Ireland, and perhaps that is something I could fit in. I will certainly try to do so if I possibly can. Let me pick up on a few of the points that have been made. I want to say a bit more on EMEC.”
“Friend the Member for Spelthorne (Kwasi Kwarteng), and his interest in work here. I look forward to receiving the paper in January. I have touched on the opportunities in Indonesia and the Philippines. I think I have dealt with the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts) on the CfD delays. I have probably mispronounced her constituency, but I will keep trying—she can tutor me. On the issue of multiple technologies, there are provisions in the Energy Bill, which I am delighted to say we are pushing forward. We are hoping, with cross-party support, to push that through Parliament as quickly as possible. It has a lot of enabling facilities in it—”
“With the Department for International Trade and other colleagues, we are also reaching out across the world, to ensure that we can show that this is the place in which to develop these solutions and then export them. I go back to the point about speeding up or expediting, as the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) referred to it. Government are working on reforming the planning and environmental consent system, to increase its efficiency and speed, while maintaining proper scrutiny of projects. That repeats what I have already said. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Gloucester, the chairman of the all-parliamentary group, for his kind words about my Department. I also thank the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland for his kind words about one of my predecessors, my right hon.”
“We recognise the success of Nova Innovation and the supply of turbines to Canada, and note the support of UK Export Finance, for which I used to be the Minister responsible. I remember Nova coming over my desk and, notwithstanding some of the challenges, being keen to be involved. I remember saying, “If we can’t support someone like this, what are we here for?” I am pleased to see that UK Export Finance, our credit agency, has been able to support Nova. With regard to further export potential, my officials have met their counterparts in Indonesia and the Philippines on the role of marine energy and what the UK can offer. We need a joined-up approach as we develop here.”
“I will not give way to the hon. Lady. We heard her generalised remarks earlier, and I think she had her opportunity. There are two BEIS overseas funding streams that EMEC may be able to apply for in partnership with developers: the first is the £1 billion net zero innovation portfolio that provides support for research and development, and the second is the energy entrepreneurs fund, which provides small grants to developers of innovative energy technologies. In May this year, BEIS awarded a £5 million grant to a hydrogen technology developer based at EMEC. Two of the CfD AR4 projects are, of course, also based at EMEC, and will be paying lease fees to EMEC from 2026. There are a number of things there, but as I have said, I am happy to meet and discuss it. Quite rightly, we talked extensively about export potential.”
“No; I am going to bring my remarks to a close, under the Chair’s steely eye. Notwithstanding the chairman of the APPG’s efforts to get people not to make comparisons, we want to get proper tension in the system. One great thing about tidal technologies is that they could offer that dispatchable power—the kind of baseload needed to balance the system. It is necessary to compare apples with apples. It is that kind of tension we need to judge how much nuclear, for instance, should play in our system. I am pleased to say that the £92, or whatever was the strike price for nuclear, now looks a tremendous bargain. Even Scottish nationalists might recognise that.”
“The use of biomass from sustainably managed forests in well supported by evidence and experts such as the International Energy Agency, which is the global authority on energy, and the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, which I would have thought that Members present would regard as being particularly well placed to make judgments on the balances that need to be struck in coming up with policy, yet the tenor of today’s debate is to dismiss these global experts and the different organisations that have looked at this issue extensively and come to the conclusion that the use of biomass is sustainable and right.”
“It is not comparable with renewables, which by their very nature are not dispatchable and available as and when they are required—unlike biomass. The use of wood pellets for bioenergy production has attracted a lot of interest and it is right that operations are closely scrutinised. However, there are claims against wood pellet use for bioenergy from forests that misrepresent on-the-ground forestry practices. That is short-sighted and ignores the environmental and social benefits of sustainable forest practices and the role that forest-derived biomass plays in supporting them. Policy decisions need to be based on facts and rigorous evidence gathering, not on inaccuracies and misconceptions.”
“Gentleman caveated that by saying that it was “not a large” contribution, which in the overall scheme of our energy use perhaps leaves a lot of unanswered questions. However, I welcome the fact that he said that. My hon. Friend the Member for North Devon raised important questions about biomass sustainability. I welcome the opportunity to clarify both the type of material and the stringent requirements we have in place to ensure that we support the sustainable use of this valuable resource. Using sustainable biomass in energy generation in the UK’s power sector has helped to reduce the use of fossil fuels. In 2021, biomass made up 12.9% of total electricity generation and the flexible generation provided by biomass technologies helps to support and stabilise the grid.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby) on securing the debate and thank all right hon. and hon. Members for their participation. My first reflection, having heard the tenor of the debate and the contributions so far, is that I have a bit of an uphill struggle to the persuade people in Westminster Hall of my case. It was noticeable in the contribution of the hon. Member for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead), given in his classically well-informed but downbeat style, that the position of His Majesty’s Opposition is to support the use of biomass. They think it does have a role, although the hon.”
“The idea—it has obviously been seeded, taken root and taken off, because I hear it again and again—that people are, in a sinister way, diverting excellent wood from uses for which they would get paid a lot more money to a use for which they get paid a lot less has spread, and it has become a conspiracy. In fact, bioenergy use does the opposite: it supports sustainable forestry. It supports the very forests that can supply wood panelling and construction material. We can ensure that it is part and parcel of delivering a stronger forestry industry around the world, and that we can have more wooden-constructed homes, as my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives suggested we should have.”
“I will make a little more progress, if I may. It is important to remember that wood used for bioenergy is not high-quality and high-value timber. Although it has been said repeatedly in the debate that wood used for bioenergy diverts material away from other uses, the opposite is true. In response to my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Derek Thomas), who comes from the construction industry, the value of timber for other uses is much higher than the value of timber used for waste, so there is no economic rationale for using it. Wood pellets and Drax purchases do not compete, because they do not offer the same financial return.”
“We have looked closely at the issue, and if they wish to keep this business going and manage the crops of these forests, they have every incentive to maintain them. I say to my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon that we could do with bringing in some experts, and I will hold a meeting. Let us have the scientists in and discuss some of this stuff—it would be an opportunity to talk about it further.”