Graham Stuart
MP for Beverley and Holderness · Conservative · United Kingdom
“I hope and expect that we can move forward in the right way and get the balance right between being overly prescriptive to the banking industry and setting a clear sense of direction to make sure that no one is left behind, as so many Members have set out.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Wishart. I congratulate the hon. Member for South Devon (Caroline Voaden) on securing this debate.”
“Is my hon. Friend as astonished as I am that the Minister—I know she is new to her post—has come here to propose a six-month extension of the movement of costs from bills to the Exchequer and cannot tell the Committee how much money that will cost?”
“The Minister is being most generous again. I did not ask her about protecting consumers from energy price shocks; I asked about a clear, unequivocal manifesto pledge to reduce household energy bills by £300. She, like her predecessors, refuses to address it directly. It was a clear promise.”
“Banking hubs themselves came out of an industry response from the NatWest executive. Does the Minister agree that we must present the information from the Lloyd review to the banking groups, be clear about what we want, and give them the opportunity to respond and provide a solution, as they did with banking hubs, so that we can perhaps a…”
“I am pleased to say that Lloyds listened and, as of this morning, people can deposit cheques at those places. These issues being raised by Members across the House today are important. I trust that given the timing of the Richard Lloyd report, the Minister in her seat will make sure that they are be resolved to everyone’s satisfaction.”
The complete record
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“We must do everything we can to reduce the vulnerability of the young people we have heard about today. Further to the question from the Opposition spokesman and the Secretary of State’s response, my Committee agrees about the need for excellent sex and relationship education in schools precisely to give resilience to young people, to enable them to talk about consent in a meaningful way, as one witness put it, and to tell them about age gaps and predatory behaviours so that they start to recognise those. We wrestled with how we would get the curriculum time and the investment in teacher quality if we do not make such education statutory—reluctantly, because we do not want to impose further duties on schools. We came to the conclusion that that had to be made statutory if we are to deliver it.”
“7. What assessment she has made of which of her Department’s policies since May 2010 has been most successful in achieving its original objectives.”
“We currently have the fastest expanding economy in the western world, which is obviously extremely welcome, but the improvement in standards in our schools has come about because of recruitment of the best possible graduates into the profession. What more can the Government do to ensure that these graduates come into our schools, particularly those in rural and coastal areas?”
“T6. Will the Secretary of State commit himself to maintaining a focus on social justice and rooting for those who do not go to university? Will he reject out of hand a policy that has been described by the New Statesman as “dire”, by Martin Lewis as “financially illiterate”, and by The Times as Labour’s worst policy? Tuition fees cuts amounting to £2.7 billion would subsidise the very richest at a time when we need to do more for the very poorest.”
“The hon. Gentleman is right to say that there was no golden age. The careers system that he left behind at the end of the Labour Government was pretty weak. Does he agree that there has been a failure to change the incentives in order to ensure that all schools provide first-class careers advice and guidance, as a small number currently do? One of the major things is to ensure that, in places such as Hartlepool, young people get qualifications that add value. He will be delighted, as I am, to see the number of young unemployed people aged between 18 and 24 in his constituency go down from the 1,200 when he left government in 2010 to, I think, 615 according to the latest figures. That is fantastic news, and we are seeing that transformation across the country under this Government.”
“Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin), as I do all the Opposition Members in the Chamber, but he does not mention that youth unemployment in his constituency has gone from more than 1,000 when the Labour party left office—there were more than 1,000 young people in his constituency who were scarred for life by unemployment, because we know that youth unemployment scars people for life—to 425 today. Similarly, in Hartlepool, about 600 young people’s lives have been transformed by a Government who are delivering and not just talking. The youth unemployment figure there has gone from 1,200 to 600, so another 600 young people have had their lives turned round. In south Hackney, the youth unemployment figure is down from 750 when Labour left office—750 young people just sitting there—to 250 today. That is all great news.”
“It is worth looking at what happened under the previous Secretary of State, who, it is fair to say, was pretty dismissive of this agenda, but he was not dismissive of the need to raise standards in schools, to challenge the low standards that prevailed for too long, and to put in place a pressure on the system to get people to sit for qualifications and do a curriculum and syllabuses for exams that matter to people and were of some value. That is already starting to pay off. Combined with an economic plan that focuses on enterprise and growth, we see transformations. I am sad to say that for those who are trying to be fair-minded, those transformations do not get properly reflected in speeches by Opposition Members. I admire enormously the hon.”
“It exists, so we can make schools work towards it and keep to it. I know it is bureaucratic—a bit input-esque—but we have not got great destinations data yet and we do not have another solution, so we have to give it a nudge. Let us not have any more reports from the alphabet soup of organisations. Teach First has done one this week that has some good stuff in it, but the central issue is that schools are not incentivised to take the matter seriously, and they have perverse incentives such as filling their sixth-form places, which means they will not even let colleges in. Let us address the incentives, get the framework right, stop faffing around with all the other talk, and we could make a real difference to the lives of children.”
“We therefore have to change the accountability regime and have a high-stakes environment in which someone very easily gets publicly humiliated or sacked. That is the central problem. We need a better balance—perhaps a nudge that does not simply add further burdens on leaders within schools and colleges, but addresses the central problem. The Committee did not have any perfect solutions, but we said—I will say this to the Minister—that schools should at least be made to publish their careers plan, so that parents and employers can have a look at it. Ofsted could check in advance. Hard-working Ministers could sit in Whitehall, as I know my right hon. Friend the Minister for Schools often does late at night, and look at it on the website. The Government helped to fund a quality in careers standard for schools.”
“Thank you for fitting me in, Mr Williams. I am afraid I was not originally down to speak because I was chairing the Education Committee this morning. Careers advice and guidance is such an important topic. The Select Committee produced a report. People are listening to thoughtful speeches from many colleagues, but the heart of the problem is a simple one. It does not come out in myriad reports that have been produced on the subject, or indeed in enough speeches given by colleagues in the Chamber. The problem is that there are insufficient incentives for schools to take the matter seriously. That is why 80% of them do not. It is simple: they do not have to take it seriously. No one loses their job and no one gets fired or publicly humiliated for failing to do it properly, but they do if five good GCSEs are not achieved.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Lady for raising the issue of apprenticeships. The TUC and Unionlearn have said—I think it was in the past few days—that they completely oppose the Labour party policy to abolish level 2 apprenticeships. Will the Labour party look at that policy again? Level 2 apprenticeships, where they transform income and provide high-quality training, should be retained; we must not lose this vital building block in providing support to young people.”
“Just for the record, the Committee did not call for additional money. It recognised that, in an ideal world, it might have been a good thing, but that the most important thing was to change the incentives for schools, because the fact that 20% of schools can find the budget—they tend to be successful schools delivering outstanding academic results as well—shows that it can be done. In fact, those things are mutually enhancing. If the Minister wanted a crude proxy for the success of the education system—I remember saying this to the hon. Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright) when he was a Minister in the Labour Government—it would be how many young people end up as NEETs. I am pleased that the number in the shadow Minister’s constituency has gone from 900 when Labour left office to 140 today.”
“The Minister says he wants a settlement that is fair to all communities. He has himself recognised that the current settlement, notwithstanding the Government’s efforts, is not fair to rural communities. The central Government grant is 50% higher for urban communities than it is for rural communities, even though rural communities are on average poorer and have fewer services.”
“Will the money be distributed in a way that is proportionate to the number of over-65s in local populations? As my hon. Friend will know, rural communities typically contain older, more vulnerable residents than their urban counterparts.”
“If we are talking about making admissions, will the right hon. Gentleman now accept that his Government, at what seemed to be a time of relative plenty, skewed funding to urban areas at the expense of rural ones? Now that we are in a period of austerity, which will continue whoever is in power, it is those poorer, more highly taxed and yet lower-serviced rural areas that are suffering most. Will his party pledge to do something about that, or will it carry on putting its own party interests ahead of fairness for the British people?”
“The right hon. Gentleman said that he would bring in a new, fairer funding formula for local government. Does he accept that in the formula introduced by the previous Government, weighting was put in for density—four times that for sparsity—which has absolutely no link to need, and that is partly why certain parts of the country, even under this Government, have unfairly benefited? Will he unpick that so that sparsity is given greater weight than density, which has nothing to do with need?”
“My hon. Friend is rightly dissecting the speech given by the shadow Secretary of State, who failed to say, despite having repeated opportunities to do so, that he would seek to redress the imbalance between rural and urban areas. Is it not clear that every rural community in this country should recognise that a Labour Government will put its own political interests ahead of a fair and equitable settlement? They should not be fooled by the words that have come from the shadow Secretary of State’s mouth today, because he refused to commit to a change that would make the situation fairer.”
“The hon. Gentleman is the only senior commentator I have heard suggest that the economy stalled primarily because of a reduction in Government spending. Surely he should accept that it was to do with the general economic dislocation across the continent of Europe. While the rest of Europe is flatlining, and while this Government have tried to wrestle down the deficit, Britain has returned to growth. We have higher growth this year than any other major economy in the world, and that should be celebrated.”
“The hon. Gentleman talks about double counting. He accepted that the Government had protected the schools budget and the health budget, and that therefore, given the size of those budgets in overall Government expenditure, there would be disproportionate cuts elsewhere. Will he put it on the record that his party would, as it did in Wales, cut the health service to protect local government funding? Tough choices means being clear about what one protects and what one will cut. His party seems to want to have it every which way without telling people the truth.”
“Is it the hon. Gentleman’s understanding, as it is mine, that the Labour party has not pledged to increase the overall funding envelope for local government? Will he spell out—in a way that the right hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn) failed to do—exactly who would be the losers in a process where there will be no winners except at the expense of others?”
“Can my right hon. Friend explain why her party believes that the local government settlement should and can be determined by the votes of Scottish MPs, when Scotland decides on the distribution of its local government formula itself? That is fundamentally unfair to the English voter whose will at the ballot box should hold in the way that local government funding is distributed.”
“I wonder whether the hon. Gentleman can tell us what the unemployment rate is now in his constituency, including that for young people, compared with 2010.”
“However, he fully supports the points that I am making on behalf of all the people in east Yorkshire. On average, as has been said—it is worth repeating after the excellent speech by my hon. Friend the Member for Newton Abbot (Anne Marie Morris)—that rural residents pay £81 more in council tax than their urban counterparts and earn less, on average. Over time, it has been good to see Labour Members slowly taking in this fact; it has been dripping in. People in rural areas are not living in some prosperous idyll—far from it. On average, they have lower earnings than people in urban areas and face greater costs in accessing services. Yet rural residents, who pay more council tax and are poorer, on average, receive £153 less per head in central Government grant than do those, on average, living in cities.”
“I welcome this year’s announcement of an additional £4 million for rural authorities through an increase in the rural services delivery grant, which did not exist until this coalition Government came to power and recognised the need to do something to address the inequalities in rural areas. In meetings with Ministers this year, colleagues from multiple parties have received the clearest recognition yet that the Government accept the principle that the funding system is biased against rural areas. I am grateful to Ministers who have begun to right the historical injustice brought about by the previous Government. My right hon. Friend the Member for East Yorkshire (Sir Greg Knight) wished to be present when I was speaking but was unable to be here.”
“For the most part, it delivered the additional funds to Labour seats that Ministers were aiming for, but it was totally wrong, because density, which does not link to need in any way, was set at four times the weighting given to sparsity, which does link to need. Although it served the party political purposes of Labour at the time, it also led to perverse outcomes in distribution across seats in areas represented predominantly by Liberal Democrats or Conservatives. It was fundamentally unfair, and areas of the country that are rural and have lower incomes have lost out ever since. This Government inherited a deeply skewed, morally unjustifiable funding settlement from Labour, and nothing we have heard from Labour Members today suggests that they do not plan to return to precisely the same methodologies if they get back into power.”
“I do not accept the Government line that this is a fair settlement for all. I recognise, though, that they inherited from Labour a funding system so skewed, so indefensible and so politically rigged that it was a shameful scandal. It was one in which, when the numbers could not be made to work out to the political preference of the then Labour Ministers, officials were asked to invent new technicalities in the system—new ways of ensuring that the money went where those Ministers wanted it to go. What did they come up with? They decided that they would use density as the weighting to drive the money where they wanted it. The new formula had all sorts of perverse outcomes.”
“It is Labour policy that in a year’s time 35 or perhaps—in the Labour party’s worst nightmares, and it is not that unlikely— 40 Scottish National party Members of Parliament will be able to dictate the distribution of local government funding in England, despite the fact that at the general election people expressed a preference for an entirely different vision. That is possible. When there is greater devolution to Scotland, it is quite wrong that we are unable to distribute our own funds within England in a way that does not allow that to be dictated by those who represent people whom it does not affect. I would like to put that on the record. As we discuss this subject, I am disappointed that I must again highlight the unfairness that my rural constituents and others across this country face in the settlement.”
“So if anyone is to win, by the sound of it, it will be the local authorities that already have the largest and most generous settlements from central Government, whereas those local authorities in rural areas with an ageing population which, on average, is poorer and has a lower average income will lose out. People in rural areas already pay a significantly higher level of tax and have weaker access to services, yet they will lose out if Labour comes to power. That has not been stated categorically. Members have asked for greater transparency. We got no transparency from the Labour party today. Tonight our job is to vote. The House decides this evening on the settlement—the distribution of funding to local government across England.”
“It is a pleasure to take part in this debate. We have heard a number of excellent speeches from both sides of the House, none more brilliantly delivered than that of the shadow Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn), who in the most lucid way presented a picture of a much fairer settlement for local government, if only the Labour party came to power. No one in the House has such a pleasant and agreeable manner as the right hon. Gentleman, yet beneath that surface we heard nothing to tell us about what the Labour party would do if it got into power. Despite all the protestations from Labour Members about the dreadfulness of spending reductions for local government, we know that the Labour party is not committed to spending any more at all.”
“In a moment. This is not about Toxteth or areas of the most concentrated deprivation; it is about a broader picture in which it would be perfectly possible to protect the most deprived areas of, say, the hon. Gentleman’s constituency while seeking to address an imbalance in the funding formula.”
“At just 1% of the shortfall in the main central Government grant, that additional money does not by itself deliver a fair deal for rural areas.”
“Although there is a smaller gap of £73 per person between rural and urban spending power, it is smaller only because it takes into account the higher council tax that rural residents have to pay. Poorer rural residents are subsidising richer urban authorities. That is worth repeating, because anyone listening to the impassioned protestations of Labour Members would think that was not true: poorer rural residents are subsidising richer urban authorities. There is no acceptable justification for that status quo. The fact that the Government have introduced the rural services delivery grant during this Parliament and increased it every year is welcome recognition of the rural penalty. This year its value has been set at £15.5 million, or £1.20 per head.”
“I appreciate the hon. Gentleman’s point, but that would mean a further bill for a left-wing organisation and we know where that leads. He will be aware that in the past couple of years the wages of non-unionised workers have eclipsed those of unionised workers and that the TUC is, for the most part—as, indeed, is the hon. Gentleman’s party—a front organisation for those who receive money from the public purse. Trade union membership does not have a great deal of relevance to those who work in the private sector, which exports across the world and generates the wealth that pays for those of us, including MPs, who are paid from the public purse. However, I would always welcome and support anyone who wished to join a trade union, if they saw fit to do so.”
“I will happily give way to the hon. Gentleman. Perhaps he will be able to provide us with more honesty than those on the Labour Front Bench and give the House the honest account of who the losers will be if Labour comes to power. I suspect there would be further injustice for rural residents across England.”
“I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for making that point. I had hoped that he would talk about the fact that his party would not invest any more money in the local government funding settlement. If his reading of what his Front-Bench colleagues have said is that his area will receive more money—I think that is the case—that means that the injustice for poorer rural residents will increase. It is not the case that urban authorities in general are unfairly funded or have had disproportionate levels of cuts, because that funding was skewed in the direction of urban areas in the first place. The Labour party refuses to explain how it would have dealt with local government funding in this Parliament.”
“Member for Leeds Central talked about that, but he would not in fact implement it. As my hon. Friend the Member for Newton Abbot said, I hope that a commitment will be made in the Budget before the election to increase the grant to at least £30 million a year. In that way, we can close the gap between urban and rural areas by 2020, recognising that people in rural communities are older, have lower average incomes and pay higher council tax, and recognising the fact that they deserve justice—at last—from whoever is in power on 8 May.”
“That is gross inequity, but the first time we hear anything from Labour Members is when a Government who inherited appalling public finances seek, inch by inch, to create a little more fairness. I want to finish in the same way as my hon. Friend the Member for Newton Abbot. I am sad that no Conservative Ministers are on the Front Bench at the moment, but I know they are assiduous readers of Hansard . I say to the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, the hon. Member for Bristol West (Stephen Williams), that I hope the Liberal Democrats and the Conservative party—I would like to say this of the Labour party, but I am not holding my breath—will make a manifesto commitment to bringing in a truly fair funding formula based on need. The right hon.”
“This Government are working to bring the NHS and social care together so that there is seamless support for an ageing population. The ageing population is disproportionately located in rural areas, such as the East Riding of Yorkshire—including my constituency of Beverley and Holderness—which have had the largest increases in the numbers of over-65s and over-80s in the country. That drives cost, but the Labour party would allow the money to be skewed to their core areas, which on average have much younger populations and no such needs. To look at the NHS settlement as a parallel, at the end of Labour’s time in office, Tower Hamlets, with its peculiarly young population, spent four times more on each cancer patient than Dorset, with a very aged population.”
“Their approach to local government finance is incoherent and damaging, and it will lead to a raid on the already poorly funded and inequitable settlement for people in rural areas. The discussion today has covered social care. Like the right hon. Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Annette Brooke), I attended debates about care during the last Parliament. I cannot say they were massively attended, but time and again she and I faced Labour Ministers who said they were sympathetic to bringing social care and the NHS together. What did they do? Absolutely nothing. I remember, as she will, that after they had been particularly sympathetic to the direction of travel, they gave a 4% increase to the NHS and a 1% increase to social care in their next financial announcement —and they wonder why we have not created a more co-ordinated system.”
“Areas doing the right thing and challenging the nimbys—saying, “Look, we need housing, and we want it to be affordable; we want affordable housing and market housing; and we want housing to accommodate our young people and give them hope for the future”—need to be rewarded with the funding to put in place the infrastructure to make such developments saleable to their residents. However, Labour Members want to strip away the new homes bonus. Yet again, they just do not understand. They want everyone to take the money from the central public purse. They talk about devolution, but that in fact means more central control. They talk about improving incentives to do the right thing, but they want to strip away the new homes bonus.”
“In that way, in 20 years’ time, the successors of Labour Members representing urban areas will not be shroud-waving proudly in the Chamber about how deprived their communities are; they will be celebrating the fact that their communities have been transformed and made more prosperous. That is the coalition Government’s vision, but through all the years of false boom presided over by the Labour party, so many people in urban centres represented by Labour Members were left to fester. Too many people were left on dole queues, from which they are now being removed by precisely those policies, such as the new homes bonus, that encourage the right behaviour. As my hon. Friends have said, there is a risk.”
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) said how deprived Liverpool is, but what she did not mention was what has happened to unemployment there, which, as in Leicester and Derby, is down under this Government. That is not because Labour has suddenly become enterprise friendly or is the result of decades of failure to promote enterprise, prosperity and wealth creation; it is because this Government have created the conditions that have helped drive down unemployment. By putting in place incentives such as the new homes bonus and understanding that incentives drive behaviour, this Government have tried to create a response in councils that will lead to the right outcomes for people.”
“I am grateful. Because the hon. Gentleman’s speech is so gloomy, I thought he might like to hear something more positive, which is that the unemployment rate in his constituency has seen a bigger cut still. It has halved since 2010. Is it not true that every Labour Government leave more people on the dole than when they came in, and that it is the Conservatives who put the country back together, put people back to work and put money in their pockets?”
“The hon. Gentleman will be aware— [Interruption.] I will tell him. Between 2009 and 2010, the number of people who were long-term unemployed in his constituency went up from 460 to 1,090—more than doubling in the final year that Labour was in power. That was a perfect encapsulation of Labour’s impact on ordinary working people: they get disadvantaged.”
“I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his comments about rural areas. Labour Members have not said anything about unemployment. In the shadow Minister’s constituency, there has been a drop in unemployment of more than 60%. In Liverpool, Riverside, the figure is more than 45%. Contrary to what the hon. Member for Birmingham, Northfield (Richard Burden) said, long-term unemployment is also down in his patch. That is the reality that underlies this debate. That is what the Government are doing, though Labour Members said that there would be 1 million more unemployed. We have had to fix the mess that the previous Government left behind.”
“Q9. On Friday I visited the Cranswick pork facility in my constituency. It now employs 1,500 people at that site alone, hundreds more than in 2010. A lot of that investment came about because Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Ministers opened up the Chinese market and have kept it open. Will the Prime Minister come and visit the facility, see the northern powerhouse in action, and see the effect of a long-term economic plan with exports at its heart?”
“I do not mean to trump my hon. Friend, but I met Vodafone last week and its current 3G coverage in my constituency is just over 20%. The good news is that thanks to the Government announcement of additional funding, it plans to reach 99% by the end of 2017.”
“Does my right hon. Friend, like me, welcome the £10 million fund that the Government have created to develop new technologies? Does he, like me, hope that the Government might be able to go further to make sure that small companies, such as those in my constituency, can be supported to develop the technology, show proof of concept and thus challenge BT and deliver for rural communities?”
“Does my hon. Friend agree that the near absolute absence of Members on the Opposition Benches shows the indifference to the rural interest that too often seizes the Labour party, so that even when there are arguments that would reasonably be accepted by their Members they do not come here to hear them, and that rural residents across the country need to recognise which parties do take an interest—including our coalition partners?”
“Let me say to the Opposition Whip, who, unfortunately for him, is in his place, that when we were discussing the Government’s programme to bring decent broadband service to rural areas, one of his colleagues said that it would mean faster internet shopping for millionaires—he went on to say faster internet shopping for wealthy people. That is a misconception of the disadvantage and low income of so many people in rural areas. They are removed from services and removed from access. The one thing that they had hoped would close that gap is digital technology, but all too often that is closed to them as well. That is the context.”