Dame Diana Johnson
MP for Kingston upon Hull North and Cottingham · Labour · United Kingdom
“Longer-term funding is subject to future spending reviews. The Department and NHS England are committed to prioritising funding for sepsis in future spending bids. The framework is a 10-year plan. I do not pretend that we will deliver everything overnight, but it sets clear targets to reduce deaths by a quarter over the next 10 years.”
“It is not acceptable that when someone has been through the worst experience of their life, they are just left to get on with it. That is why we are committed to improving access to post-discharge support and rehabilitation, with priority actions set out in the framework.”
“I encourage everyone who has not yet come forward to do so, and to ensure that they obtain both doses of the vaccine for proper protection. The framework commits to improving vaccine access. The shadow Minister put a number of questions to me. I will respond in writing, as I am conscious of the time.”
“No one knows a child better than his or her parents or carers, which is why listening to patients, carers and families is vital to supporting sepsis recognition and escalation. Too many cases have shown the devastating consequences when deterioration concerns are not heard.”
“During Sepsis Awareness Month, I pay tribute to the charities, such as the UK Sepsis Trust and Sepsis Research FEAT, that do so much to support families, raise awareness and fund research.”
“That will include research calls that cover sepsis improvement priorities, whether it is vaccination and screening, faster and more accurate diagnosis or innovative treatments. It is true that the most recent data from the Office for National Statistics suggests that sepsis deaths went down in 2024.”
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“As part of the spending review, we want to consider police funding in the round, including how police funding is allocated to forces. The sector, including the Association of Police and Crime Commissioners and the National Police Chiefs’ Council, is engaged in the process.”
“That is an important point, and we are actively exploring all ways that we can improve guidance around redaction, streamline current processes, make better use of technology, and ultimately reduce unnecessary burdens on the police and prosecutors, so that they can get on with their primary task of keeping the public safe and putting away criminals.”
“The Government have no plans to scrap the role of police and crime commissioner. We think it is a valuable role that can enable the missions that this Government have set out to be enacted locally, including the safer streets mission. We need to work with the PCCs to make sure that mission happens in the different force areas around the country. PCCs also have a role to play with their other partners, local authorities and the voluntary sector.”
“It is always a pleasure to answer the hon. Gentleman. That work will be ongoing. We want to recruit from the widest possible groups in our communities, and to encourage young people to think about a career in policing.”
“The ACMD has provided helpful independent, detailed advice on the harms associated with these substances. We have a responsibility to protect the public against dangerous substances and will continue to act as swiftly as we can to ensure appropriate controls are in place. I hope Members will approve this draft order and support the Government’s position to ensure that all 22 substances, as well as those caught by the generic definition for nitazenes, be subject to strict controls. I therefore commend the order to the Committee.”
“In addition to this order, a further statutory instrument will be introduced, via the negative resolution procedure. This is to make various amendments to the Misuse of Drugs Regulations 2001, known as the MDR and, if necessary, the Misuse of Drugs (Designation) Order 2015, to schedule and designate the newly controlled drugs, as appropriate. This follows the ACMD advice and will ensure that they will only be available for research or other special purposes under a Home Office licence. As xylazine has legitimate use as a veterinary medicine, it will be placed in schedule 4, part 1 of the MDR to enable its continued legitimate use. It is the Government’s intention that these amendments will come into force on the same date as this affirmative order, in early 2025.”
“Furthermore, enforcement agencies, such as the police, will have the appropriate powers to further restrict the supply and use of these substances. While nearly all these substances are likely to be captured by the Psychoactive Substances Act 2016, the control of these substances under the MDA will enable higher penalties for their supply, as well as introducing a possession offence with wider reach. Those who supply or produce a class A drug could face up to life imprisonment, an unlimited fine, or both. For a class C, this could be up to 14 years’ imprisonment, an unlimited fine or both. Those found in unlawful possession face up to seven years in prison for a class A and up to two for a class C, with an unlimited fine, or both.”
“Xylazine is being used to adulterate illicitly manufactured opioids such as fentanyl to produce a mixture which is known as “tranq” in the USA. Xylazine can dangerously lower an individual’s level of consciousness, especially if combined with other sedatives. So, the draft order seeks to control xylazine as a class C drug under the MDA, as recommended by the ACMD. The draft order also amends the entry for methoxyphenidine, to add an additional common name and its full international standardised name. This does not affect the existing control of the substance as a class B drug, but adds clarity on exactly which drug is controlled, given that there are multiple common names. If made, this order will mean that these substances will be subject to control under the MDA.”
“They and related compounds have been associated with significant health harms. Since the ACMD’s last report in 2020, further benzodiazepines and related compounds have been identified that are not controlled under the MDA. As such, the ACMD published new recommendations in March 2024. The ACMD recommended 15 compounds for control, none of which are licensed as medicines in the UK. As such, in line with the ACMD advice, the draft order seeks to control 15 benzodiazepines and related compounds as class C drugs under the MDA. Xylazine is a non-opioid tranquilizer that has been approved for use in veterinary medicine. However, we have seen an increase, both internationally and in the UK, in its illicit use.”
“However, more needs to be done to reduce the opportunity for criminals to circumvent existing controls by making minor alterations to the chemical structure of existing named nitazenes under control. That is why the draft order implements the ACMD proposal to introduce a generic definition of nitazenes. The intention is to future-proof the legislation by covering known and predicted variants likely to present a significant risk to health. The ACMD has published four updates to address new structurally-related compounds under the definition. As such, the draft order introduces a generic definition for nitazenes as a class A drug under the MDA. Benzodiazepines are sedatives known for use in various treatments including anxiety, insomnia and epilepsy. In recent years, we have seen an increase in the non-medical use of novel benzodiazepines.”
“In its report of 27 March 2024, the ACMD considered the harms of 2-methyl-AP-237 but also provided advice on closely related acyl piperazine opioids. The ACMD noted the likelihood of further increases in their prevalence, as well as the potential health and social harms associated with specific acyl piperazine opioids. The draft order follows the recommendations from the ACMD and therefore seeks to control four named acyl piperazine opioids and two chemically bridged acyl piperazine derivatives, which includes 2-methyl-AP-237, as class A drugs under the MDA. Under the MDA, there are a number of nitazenes, another type of synthetic opioid, that are already controlled as class A drugs.”
“The draft order also seeks to add clarity to the control of an existing class B drug, by adding an additional common name and its International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry name to its entry. Following the 66th session of the United Nations Commission on Narcotic Drugs, the synthetic opioid 2-methyl-AP-237 was added to schedule 1 of the single convention on narcotic drugs of 1961, to which the UK is a signatory. New synthetic opioids are a substantial current public health threat. They have similar effects to well-known opioids such as morphine and heroin, although some can be more potent. With a high potential for addiction and dependence, lower doses of these substances can lead to the same effects as other opioids. They have an increased risk of accidental overdose, which can lead to life-threatening outcomes.”
“I beg to move, That the Committee has considered the draft Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (Amendment) (No. 2) Order 2024. It is a real pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Efford, especially as this is the first time that I have had the pleasure of addressing this Committee after a 14-year break. I am grateful to the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, known as the ACMD, for its advice which has informed this draft order. The draft order was laid before Parliament on 2 September. The purpose of the order is to amend schedule 2 to the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971, the MDA, to control six substances and introduce a generic definition for nitazenes as class A drugs, and to control sixteen substances as class C drugs.”
“That is due to the relatively low levels of detection of these substances compared with other controlled substances, and the likelihood that such drugs are often possessed and trafficked with other substances already controlled under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. The police and other law enforcement agencies are operationally independent, as the shadow Minister knows, but we do expect them to prioritise resources in tackling crime, including drug-related crime, with a focus on those offences that cause the most harm. I think we all agree that these are dangerous substances with potential to cause significant harm to individuals and society. It is right that all the substances that we have discussed today are put under strict controls under the 1971 Act. I therefore commend the order to the Committee. Question put and agreed to.”
“As I said, it is a medicine that is used in veterinary science, and we need to make sure that it is still being used in the same way and that there are no problems with that. We also need to be mindful whether it is also being used in different ways. So, we absolutely remain vigilant. This is an area that I am particularly interested in and I will continue to look at these things as often as I can. The hon. Gentleman referred to how the order could have issues around law enforcement and prisons. It is worth referring to the impact assessment and economic note that have been produced. Clearly, the law enforcement response is expected to be reasonably managed within existing resources; that is set out in the impact assessment.”
“I am grateful for the shadow Minister’s comments, particularly on the situation in Afghanistan; we need to remain very mindful of that. I will now respond to his questions. It is absolutely right that we remain vigilant, and I am confident that the ACMD has the resources to do so. It has the power to access whatever information it needs about new variants coming into circulation. That is really important. In today’s proceedings we are very much taking a belt-and-braces approach, to make sure that we are ahead of the game wherever possible. I am confident that the ACMD will allow us to do that; we may well be back here in future if it provides further advice. On xylazine, I take the point that we should keep an eye on how the legislation is working.”
“The measures in the Bill are intended to bring about definitive and positive change to stop future generations from becoming hooked on nicotine while ensuring that vapes can remain a means by which adult smokers can quit. However, I note the proposals for amending that Bill that the hon. Member for Bath has put forward. I am very happy to take those proposals away and discuss them with officials, as well as share them with the public health Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Gorton and Denton (Andrew Gwynne), because this is his Bill—he will be bringing it forward. I hope the hon. Lady will allow me to give her my assurance that all the issues she has raised will be considered.”
“Member for Bath referred to, the Government will be introducing the tobacco and vapes Bill to address the high rates of youth vaping, alongside measures to make the UK smokefree. That Bill includes landmark policies to protect our children from the harms of vaping and the risk of nicotine addiction. Among other things, the Bill will stop vapes and nicotine products from being deliberately branded for, and advertised to, children; introduce a minimum age of sale of 18 for non-nicotine vapes and nicotine products to ensure they cannot be sold to children; ban the free distribution of vaping and nicotine products; and provide the Government with regulation-making powers to restrict flavours, point-of-sale displays and packaging for all vaping and nicotine products.”
“As the chief medical officer, Professor Sir Chris Whitty, has said, “If you smoke, vaping is much safer; if you don’t smoke, don’t vape; marketing vapes to children is utterly unacceptable.” The law currently protects children through restricting sales of nicotine-inhaling vapes to over-18s only, limiting nicotine content, labelling requirements and advertising restrictions. The Department of Health and Social Care is providing £3 million in funding over two years specifically to enhance the work led by National Trading Standards to tackle underage and illicit vape sales. However, non-nicotine vapes and other nicotine products such as nicotine pouches have much lower levels of regulation, and current levels of youth vaping and the targeting of products at children mean that further restrictions are needed. That is why, as the hon.”
“Home Office and health officials have met him to discuss his findings, and we continue to consider any emerging evidence on the harms of illicit drugs. I will start by making some general comments about vapes. First, vapes containing Spice are illegal, and no one should be buying or using those products—I will say a little bit more about that later. The Government welcome adult smokers switching to vaping as part of their efforts to give up smoking, but discourage the use of vaping by children and non-smokers.”
“I start by congratulating the hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) on securing this important debate. I have listened carefully to her contribution, as well as those of the hon. Member for St Ives (Andrew George) and of my hon. Friend the Member for Worthing West (Dr Cooper), and I very much share the concerns that have been expressed about this matter. As Minister for Policing, I am really keen to gain as full an understanding as possible of the threats to public safety, including ones such as this, so while the subject matter of this debate is deeply troubling, I am grateful that it has been brought before the House this evening for consideration. I am also appreciative of the research undertaken by Professor Pudney, which has helped to identify this issue.”
“The Education Secretary has said that children’s wellbeing must be at the heart of the RSHE guidance and has committed to looking carefully at the public consultation responses and considering the relevant evidence before setting out next steps to take the guidance forward. In respect of vapes specifically, the Department for Education and the Department of Health and Social Care have taken a number of steps to increase the training resources and support available for teachers and schools. They have updated the curriculum to include the health risks of vaping and published new online content on the potential risks of vaping for young people. I noted carefully what the hon. Member said about parents as well as young people needing to be educated, and also about politicians needing to have that education.”
“Health education is a compulsory subject in schools and is taught as part of the relationships, sex and health education curriculum. Health education includes content on drugs, alcohol and tobacco. As with other aspects of the curriculum, schools have flexibility about how they deliver these subjects, so that they can develop an integrated approach that is sensitive to the needs and background of their pupils. For example, in areas where there are significant problems with drugs or vapes, a school can choose to dedicate more time to this topic. The hon. Member may know that the relationships, sex and health education curriculum is currently being reviewed, and, as part of that, the Department for Education will explore whether any more content on this subject is required.”
“The import, production or supply of a class B drug carries a maximum sentence of up to 14 years’ imprisonment, an unlimited fine or both. Although legislation is in place, with punitive sanctions to tackle offences, including the supply of SCRAs, there is something particularly concerning about the attempt by some criminals to peddle vapes containing SCRAs that are designed to appeal to children. I want to talk about what we can do to deal with that. The hon. Member made some suggestions. I am sure that we agree that early drug use significantly increases exposure to health and social harms, including substance use disorder or dependency later in life. One of the most effective approaches to preventing drug misuse and risky behaviour is through empowering and building resilience in children and young people.”
“Again, I emphasise that the Bill is not within the Home Office’s purview; it is a DHSC measure. I will ask the Minister for Public Health to respond to the hon. Member for Wells and Mendip Hills (Tessa Munt) because I am not yet sighted on the whole Bill. As the hon. Member for Bath said, the addition of Spice to some vapes is particularly concerning. Spice is a street name for synthetic cannabinoid receptor agonists, or SCRAs. Other brand names are also associated with SCRAs, such as Black Mamba. However, despite the suggestion of a link in the term “synthetic cannabinoid”, there is no relationship between SCRAs and the cannabis plant. Let me be clear: vapes containing SCRAs are illegal. Most SCRAs, including Spice, are controlled as class B drugs via a generic definition under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971.”
“I again thank the hon. Member for raising this important and concerning matter. I hope I have made it clear not only that punitive measures are available to tackle those who illegally supply these dangerous drugs, but that the Government are alive to the dangers of children vaping more widely, as well as in these particular instances. Through measures planned to be introduced in the tobacco and vapes Bill, we aim to reduce the availability of vapes to children. As I have promised, I will certainly feed back to the public health Minister the issues she has raised about what should be in that Bill. Question put and agreed to.”
“The hon. Member obviously has a great deal of experience in education, and of what works with young people when teaching these really important but difficult subjects. Given the number of issues she has raised and approaches she would like adopted, I am very happy, as I said at the outset, to take that back and to look at the advice that officials will give me and the public health Minister. I agree with the hon. Lady about parents as well as politicians needing to be educated on this matter. Information about the dangers of SCRAs is readily available on Frank, which is the Government-funded national drug and alcohol advisory service. It explains that SCRAs can be more potent than cannabis and that the effects may last for life. It also says that there may be unknown effects, because, as is important to note, we are at the early stages.”
“The police and crime commissioner has already publicly committed to the new station housing the response team, the neighbourhood policing teams and the criminal investigation teams, and it will be open to the public. Furthermore, ownership of the current police station will be retained until the new police station is open. It has also been confirmed to me that there will be no disruption or break in the public’s access to the police. [ Interruption. ] The right hon. Gentleman looks like he wants to intervene, so I happily give way.”
“Gentleman mentioned, it remains operationally open and with police access as normal. A new police station, located on Anchorage Road, immediately adjacent to the existing building—I understand the distance between them is 300 yards—has been confirmed as the new police station site by the police and crime commissioner. It is smaller—I heard what the right hon. Gentleman said—but I understand that the current building is occupied at only 20%, meaning that 80% of it is not occupied at the moment, which does not seem to be value for money. The smaller police station will be more modern and more appropriately sized for the local presence, based on the current levels of occupancy, and it is expected to be ready to move into next year.”
“It means that the democratically elected police and crime commissioners, and the operationally independent chief constables, are responsible for taking decisions on police stations and their whole estate. In doing so, they will use their judgment, local knowledge and expertise to ensure that the use of their estate gives the best service to the community and fulfils value-for-money obligations. I know that the right hon. Gentleman will be concerned about getting value for money. Let me turn to Royal Sutton Coldfield. I know that the police station has served the town for many years—since 1960, as I understand it. The police and crime commissioner’s office has confirmed to me directly, and to my officials, that although the police station is currently listed for sale, as the right hon.”
“None of us would wish to see the possibility of going to a local police station to get assistance or to speak to an officer consigned to history, and it is important for many of our constituents. I know that the focus of this debate is very specific, but I will make two broader points. First, the Government need no reminders about the importance of that strong local police presence in communities. After all, it is this Government who have committed to restoring neighbourhood policing in all our communities, so that people feel confident that they are being protected and our laws enforced. Secondly, Members will be aware that police forces are operationally independent from Ministers and Government, and that is absolutely as it should be.”
“I say this not to try to minimise the matter at hand, but simply to set out the context of my response. I stress the general importance of a strong local police presence. Before I come on to the particular situation in the right hon. Gentleman’s constituency, I will make a general point about this Government’s recognition of the importance of police forces having a strong local footprint. I think we would all acknowledge that technology has changed the way that the vast majority of us communicate and interact with the world, and it is therefore right to have a range of means by which people can contact and engage with the police, including online and by telephone, but these channels should not be seen as a substitute for a physical police presence, such as that provided by police stations.”
“I will state at the outset that as a constituency MP, I fully appreciate that the status of police stations can be the focus of significant attention and generate strong feelings in communities. Of course, I am not as familiar with developments in the constituency of the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield as he is. He will also understand that, in the main, we are talking about decisions and considerations that are not within the direct purview of central Government and myself as the Minister for Policing. Indeed, he admitted that he was part of the Government who introduced police and crime commissioners to give that accountability at a local level. I remind him that we had elections for police and crime commissioners earlier this year, in which the police and crime commissioner for the West Midlands was elected on his own mandate.”
“I congratulate the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell) on securing this debate. It is a pleasure to see him back in his place after the general election. I know that he has a very long-standing interest in this issue, and I commend him on taking the necessary steps to secure this debate. I think he first raised this subject in 2018, if my records are correct. As came through in his very powerful remarks, the subject of the debate is very important to him and to his constituents. I am very grateful to the right hon. Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Wendy Morton) and my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Gareth Snell), who made interventions.”
“I have set out the Government’s commitment to ensuring that we have a strong, visible neighbourhood policing offer in all our communities, which is central to what this Government will deliver through our safer streets mission. I again thank the right hon. Gentleman for raising this important issue on the Floor of the House this evening, along with other right hon. and hon. Members. Question put and agreed to .”
“Before I finish, I want to take the opportunity to express my gratitude and thanks to all our serving police officers, police community support officers and specials. I am sure that all Members of the House will agree that they do an amazing job in very difficult circumstances, particularly over the past few weeks when we have seen disorder on our streets. As I have set out and tried to explain to the right hon. Gentleman, decisions about police stations are ultimately matters that sit outside my remit as a Minister. In any event, I hope that it has been helpful to have this discussion this evening and to talk through some of the issues.”
“The right hon. Gentleman makes his case, and I am sure that the police and crime commissioner will have heard it. I further understand that there has been an offer—which I think the right hon. Gentleman referred to—to have that meeting with the police and crime commissioner, to discuss the options and what he is planning to do. Can I also gently say, as I did at the beginning of my remarks, that it is for the police and crime commissioner and the chief constable to decide how best to use the assets available to them? I understand that the chief constable is absolutely committed to this new way of providing the police station in this area. Operationally, that is what he believes is the best way of providing policing to the right hon. Gentleman’s constituents.”
“We are determined to stamp out the scourge of serious youth violence, and we have set out an unprecedented mission to halve knife crime within a decade. We will introduce legislation to remove dangerous knives from our streets, and will tackle online knife sales with new sanctions for technology executives whose companies fail to obey the law. Our new young futures programme will prevent teenagers from being drawn into violence by bringing services together around them to ensure that they stay on the right path.”
“Let me first offer my condolences to the families of my hon. Friend’s constituents who so tragically lost their lives. Tackling serious violence and halving knife crime is a core part of our safer streets mission, but to be successful it will require action across Whitehall and with all partners including police, probation youth services, technology companies, charities and community organisations. My hon. Friend mentioned the preventive element provided by our young futures programme. The young futures hubs will be staffed by a range of trained professionals to support young people and help to prevent them from being drawn into violence.”
“Antisocial behaviour is blighting high streets and town centres right across the country, and our communities are paying the price. That is why this Government have made tackling it a top priority. We will restore neighbourhood policing, putting bobbies back on the beat in every corner of the country, and we will introduce new respect orders so that the police can get repeat offenders off our streets.”
“Absolutely. We have been very clear that we see neighbourhood policing as the bedrock of restoring public confidence in policing, and the neighbourhood policing guarantee is a crucial part of that. The police have powers to crack down on the antisocial use of dangerous and deafening off-road bikes, which causes much concern in many of our constituencies, so that they can be seized and destroyed far more swiftly.”
“Absolutely. As I said in my opening answer, a priority for the Government is tackling the scourge of antisocial behaviour. We know that the police and local authorities have a range of powers to deal with antisocial behaviour, which we will strengthen through new legislation.”
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right about this being one of the top issues on the doorstep during the general election campaign. It is worth reflecting on the fact that the powers in the Anti-social Behaviour, Crime and Policing Act 2014 actually weakened the response to antisocial behaviour, and for far too long the Conservatives wrote this off as just low-level crime. That is why we are introducing respect orders and stronger powers for the police to tackle persistent antisocial behaviour offenders and get them out of our town centres. Of course I would be happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss this issue.”
“I am very aware of this issue and, as I said in an earlier response, we want to make sure that there is swift action to deal with it. We think the neighbourhood policing guarantee, getting police officers back on to the beat to see what is going on, will provide that reassurance. Stopping antisocial behaviour is key and we will make sure that that happens, but I am happy to discuss it with my hon. Friend as well.”
“I thank my hon. Friend; how nice it is to see her back in her place in this House. Of course, collaboration will be key to tackling antisocial behaviour. In line with our manifesto, we will be introducing powerful new respect orders, giving the police greater powers to get persistent antisocial offenders off our streets. We will also introduce zero tolerance zones through a form of expedited public space protection orders, to prevent antisocial street drinking or local drug dealing, for example, from blighting particular areas.”
“I would just say to the shadow Policing Minister that one of the incidents he is referring to is clearly still under consideration by the Independent Office for Police Conduct, and it would be wrong for me to make any further comment on that at this time. Of course the police have our backing in the difficult job that they have to do, particularly around antisocial behaviour, and we will of course do what we can to support the police when they need that support.”
“I am sure the hon. Gentleman does not need advice from me. He is quite clear that this is a devolved matter, so he obviously needs to take it up with the Scottish Government and Police Scotland. As an incoming Government we recognise that having enough police on the beat and being visible is important to the public feeling safe. That reassurance is vital, so perhaps the hon. Gentleman will take it up with the Scottish Government and Police Scotland.”
“I totally sympathise with what my hon. Friend has set out. The police do have powers to seize vehicles being used illegally or in an antisocial manner, and to fine individuals who fail to stop when instructed to do so. We will set out our plans to crack down on antisocial road users in due course.”
“The Government recognise the importance of tackling rural crime. We are committed to safeguarding rural communities with tougher measures to clamp down on antisocial behaviour and strengthen neighbourhood policing and stronger laws to prevent farm theft and fly-tipping. The national rural crime unit provides police forces with specialist operational support in respect of the theft of farming or construction machinery, livestock theft, fly-tipping, fuel theft and equine crime.”
“The Government have a manifesto commitment to ban ninja swords and other weapons and will be taking it forward as soon as possible. I have listened carefully to what my hon. Friend has said. Ensuring that lethal blades that have been used to kill teenagers on our streets are no longer available to buy or sell is a key priority. We will also implement the ban on zombie knives and zombie-style machetes, which was approved by Parliament in April.”