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UK PARLIAMENT · SITTING

Pat McFadden

MP for Wolverhampton South East · Labour · United Kingdom

IN THEIR OWN WORDS

In his review Alan Milburn considered that issue and said that, “the UK’s NEET crisis is much more long-term and deep-seated than any decisions taken in the last few years.” As I said earlier, 400,000 more people are in work this year than last year, and the number of young people in employment is up since the election.

YOUTH GUARANTEE · 2026-06-29 · READ IN HANSARD

Since our last DWP questions, both Alan Milburn and the Pensions Commission have published their respective interim reports on young people and on the current state of saving for retirement. I look forward to receiving their final reports later in the year.

TOPICAL QUESTIONS · 2026-06-29 · READ IN HANSARD

As Alan Milburn pointed out in his recent report, the UK’s NEET crisis is much more long-term and deep-seated than any decisions taken in the last few years. There are 400,000 more people in work than last year. The number of young people in employment is up by 74,000 since the election.

YOUTH HUBS · 2026-06-29 · READ IN HANSARD

I thank the right hon. Gentleman and send him commiserations for whatever has left him reliant on his crutches today. I am happy to congratulate the businesses he mentioned in his constituency. He raises a serious point: it is important not only to come up with the right policy, but to make it simple for businesses to use.

YOUTH GUARANTEE · 2026-06-29 · READ IN HANSARD

My hon. Friend is right, and I thank Cardiff football club for being a partner. We are supporting nearly 1 million young people and creating up to half a million opportunities for jobs and training.

YOUTH HUBS · 2026-06-29 · READ IN HANSARD

We are making strong progress on expanding youth hubs, with around 130 already in operation across Great Britain. In March, I announced the locations that we want to open in this year, and I have just announced a further 180 locations for the following two years.

YOUTH HUBS · 2026-06-29 · READ IN HANSARD

The complete record

Every one of 5,181 lines we hold for Pat McFadden, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 26 of 104.

  1. Q In 2014, the FCA took on responsibility for supervising tens of thousands more firms as a result of the transfer of responsibilities from the Office of Fair Trading. Should we understand that that created significant difficulties for the FCA in absorbing tens of thousands of firms to supervise, or do you think other organisational things were going on that were unrelated to the size of its responsibilities? Sheree Howard: Dame Elizabeth Gloster’s report outlined the circumstances and nature of the changes that occurred at the time that consumer credit was transferred from the OFT to the FCA in 2014.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (FIRST SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  2. Q Are you telling us that it was a difficult thing to swallow but you now have the systems in place to deal with it? Sheree Howard: I was not in the FCA at the time, but it was a very large assumption of remit. We have changed systems. We have implemented various programmes highlighted in Dame Elizabeth’s report on delivering effective supervision and effective authorisation programmes. As I have already outlined, the financial services market is not sitting still; the FCA cannot sit still—hence the changes that are under way and will be a fact of life going forward. We are undertaking a significant programme to ensure that we invest in digital and data and have much greater access to the information, given the quantum of firms that we oversee.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (FIRST SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  3. Any change to those maximum levels is a legislative matter that the Government plan to consult on in the autumn.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (FIRST SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  4. Q Good morning. Thank you very much for giving evidence today. Clause 2 of the Bill authorises a Government loan that will subsequently be paid for by a levy on the industry over a period of years. Can you tell us how that levy will work and how the burden of it will be divided between different types of pension schemes, for example the auto-enrolment schemes that have been established over the last decade or so? David Taylor: Absolutely. We have the power to set the levy up to limits set out in legislation. Since we got clarity on the eligibility of scam schemes for compensation in the last year, we have raised the levy to the maximum we can at the moment. That is 75p per member for schemes in general, and 30p per member for master trusts.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (FIRST SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  5. As you will no doubt hear from other witnesses, there have been a number of measures since then that have tightened up in various respects and mean that cases like the ones we are talking about here are less likely to happen in the future.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (FIRST SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  6. Q The reason for that is the growth of pension fraud and mis-selling. Obviously, you are the ultimate backstop at the Pension Protection Fund. What is your view of the trajectory of pension fraud and mis-selling? Is it growing in nature? If so, how could the Government and the regulators do more to combat it? David Taylor: Our role in relation to this is, as you say, as the backstop to pay compensation in the particular circumstances where there is a pension scheme that has been defrauded, or where money has been lost from the scheme due to dishonesty. The sorts of cases that we are talking about here, and for which the loan will be required, are actually predominantly historical in nature.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (FIRST SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  7. I believe you will be hearing later from the transparency taskforce, which very helpfully flagged to us that information on the Fraud Compensation Fund was not perhaps as successful as it could be. We have taken various steps to increase visibility. We are in the process of creating a separate website for the Fraud Compensation Fund, where it is very straightforward for members to find information about how the fund works. For the sorts of members we are talking about, their first port of call is also the scheme trustees or professional trustees who have been put in place by the Pensions Regulator and who will be able to keep them posted as to where their applications have got to.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (FIRST SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  8. Q My final question is about information to consumers. We have the Pension Protection Fund, we have the financial services compensation scheme, and now we have the Fraud Compensation Fund as well. If a pension scheme member finds themselves in need of redress, how will they navigate their way through this? How will people know whom to contact? What efforts will be made to let people know that this help is available to them? David Taylor: The Fraud Compensation Fund has been in existence since the main Pension Protection Fund was set up in 2004-05, but it has actually had relatively few claims on it prior to this raft of pensions liberation cases.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (FIRST SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  9. Q Thank you, Ms Ghani, and I thank all the witnesses for giving us their time. Dame Elizabeth, I would like to begin with you. You produced a hefty, detailed report of hundreds of pages with a number of different recommendations. Having looked into the collapse of London Capital & Finance so deeply, what is the single biggest lesson that you would like us to take from your report? Dame Elizabeth Gloster : It is probably set out in the executive summary of my report, in chapter 2. I think the biggest lesson that should be taken away is that there has to be a cultural change at the Financial Conduct Authority in order to ensure that the FCA is able to regulate in accordance with its obligations in a digitalised world.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (FIRST SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  10. First, for example, the restricted approach to the regulatory perimeter when dealing with authorised firms; secondly, the failure to consider LCF’s business holistically in the application, variation and the regulation supervision processes; and thirdly, the absence of training that we pointed to of those employees at the FCA who had to review financial material. Those are all three failings that potentially could apply to other businesses.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (FIRST SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  11. Q You were, of course, asked to look into the collapse of one particular firm. At the heart of quite a lot of your findings is the tension of a regulated firm selling unregulated products. Although you were asked to look into the collapse of one firm, do you think that the kind of regulatory failure that you identified could apply in other cases? After all, LCF is certainly not the only regulated firm that is selling unregulated products—many firms do that. Dame Elizabeth Gloster : Let me make it clear, as I think I did in my letter to the Committee, that I only looked—and was only instructed to look—at the regulation of LCF. I did not look at the regulation of other firms that may or may not have been similar. Having said that, some of the criticisms my report made could potentially apply to other firms.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (FIRST SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  12. John, do you have the chapter? John Bedford: Yes, Dame Elizabeth. It is chapter 14, page 303 of your report. Dame Elizabeth Gloster: Thank you. The fact that LCF bonds could be acquired in an ISA wrapper was absolutely critical to attracting investment because bondholders believed that the ISA status indicated that LCF’s products were subject to an additional level of regulatory security and assurance. Once LCF got its approval, and marketed its bonds as ISA-eligible, the sales significantly increased. That was our concern—this gap with neither the FCA nor HMRC actually looking at the question—and was something that should be addressed.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (FIRST SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  13. Q Thank you. This is my final question to you, Dame Elizabeth. You made a recommendation about dealing with the lacuna in how ISA status were dealt with between the FCA and HMRC. Could you tell us a bit more about this? What is this lacuna? ISA status is important. It is a trusted and successful brand. People may think that you cannot lose money on an ISA—of course you can—but certainly putting your money in one is regarded as a safe and responsible thing to do. Dame Elizabeth Gloster: The gap we identified—I would be grateful if John or Dorothy could direct me to the particular chapter in my report—was that neither the FCA, nor HMRC, at any time checked on or seemed to conduct any analysis of, either as part of a regulatory or a taxation process, whether or not the product being flogged to the investors was ISA compliant.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (FIRST SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  14. I am not aware of any other situation where there is a regulated product being sold by an authorised firm who is conducting literally no regulated business, and is also allowed into an ISA. Those are exceptional circumstances. However, if you look at the many other financial services scandals that have occurred where regulatory failure is either proven, as in the Connaught case, or is alleged with very good reason, they all have exclusive and specific circumstances. I think the question for this Committee is whether you want to use the opportunity of this Bill to create a right for consumers—with a high bar—to have their claims for compensation considered, where they are able to demonstrate significant regulatory failure and that that failure has led to loss.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (FIRST SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  15. Q Thank you. That is a very important finding. I have one further question to the Transparency Task Force about the uniqueness, or otherwise, of the LCF case. The Government’s case is that the LCF collapse— rather not the collapse but this response to it—is unique because, as both Ministers said on Second Reading, “LCF is the only mini-bond firm that was authorised by the FCA and sold bonds in order to on-lend to other companies.” —[ Official Report , 8 June 2021; Vol. 696, c. 905.] My question is whether the case of LCF is unique and, if not, why not? Mark Bishop: Shall I take this one? If you look at what the Minister said, then no doubt it is unique.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (FIRST SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  16. I beg to move amendment 1, in clause 1, page 1, line 5, at end insert— “(1A) Within six months of this Act receiving Royal Assent, the Secretary of State shall lay before Parliament a report that considers the circumstances and impact of the payment of compensation to the customers of London Capital & Finance plc and that, in the light of that consideration, sets out the following— (a) the circumstances in which taxpayer-funded compensation should be paid following the collapse of investment companies in future; (b) the extent of regulatory failure necessary to trigger compensation funded by the taxpayer in future; and (c) the limits to taxpayer exposure to investment failings.” This amendment would require the Secretary of State to lay before Parliament a report exploring the impact of the payment of compensation to the customers of London Capital & Finance plc and giving criteria for when the taxpayer should compensate investors for investment failures.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  17. When that is not the case, whatever losses there may be should be regarded as normal investment market failings.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  18. Their justification for any compensation at all is that LCF is a unique case. Both Ministers spelled that out on Second Reading last week. In his opening speech, the Pensions Minister said: “While other mini-bond firms have failed, LCF is the only mini-bond firm that was authorised by the FCA and sold bonds in order to on-lend to other companies.” He went on to say: “It is…important to emphasise that the circumstances surrounding LCF are unique and exceptional, and the Government cannot and should not be expected to stand behind every failed investment firm.” —[ Official Report , 8 June 2021; Vol. 696, c. 905.] We agree, and that is precisely what the amendment is about: to try to get some clarity on the Government’s thinking when the degree of regulatory failure is so exceptional that it warrants the taxpayer picking up the bill.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  19. The Government have judged the level of regulatory failure to be so exceptional and egregious that they have decided that the taxpayer has a responsibility to compensate, or as it is sometimes put, to socialise the losses. The level of compensation set by the Government is 80% of the maximum level allowed by the Financial Services Compensation Fund. That maximum is £85,000, so 80% leaves investors with a maximum pay-out of about £68,000. There is debate about that 80%. Members of the Committee will have been sent written evidence from various LCF investors who think that level is too low. They do not understand why they have been asked to forfeit 20% of their investment because of what the Government acknowledge to be a particularly egregious regulatory failure. The Government will have to debate that.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  20. He used the well-known phrase “caveat emptor”, or “buyer beware”, which applies those who may buy investment products. The trouble at the heart of this case is that the investors did not think they were making a particularly risky decision. LCF sold mini-bonds on the basis of a guaranteed investment return. When those who suspected something might be wrong phoned the FCA, time after time they were reassured that nothing was wrong. To quote one of the FCA’s call handlers, “This is not a scam”. While the hon. Gentleman was right to raise the principle of caveat emptor, how can we blame the investors if the very regulator looking after the thing was reassuring them that there was nothing to be concerned about?

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  21. He told us that there have been only two other cases in recent decades—Barlow Clowes and Equitable Life—and even those decisions did not always bring matters to a close. With Equitable Life, some investors around the country remain dissatisfied with the levels of compensation that have been paid out. There is an all-party parliamentary group in this House, and we have my indefatigable hon. Friend the Member for Harrow West, who has led at least one debate, if not more, on these issues, on the Committee. Such decisions do not always bring the matter to a close. The focus of the amendment is to try to bring some clarity to Parliament and the public about when the taxpayer should be on the hook for an investment collapse, and when not. This issue was raised in oral evidence this morning by the hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  22. Thank you for your guidance, Ms Ghani. Later, I will move amendment 2 and, with your help, my hon. Friend the Member for Reading East will move amendments 3, 5 and 6, which stand in the Opposition’s name. Amendment 1 relates to the first clause of the Bill, which deals with the compensation scheme relating to the collapse of London Capital & Finance and which is based on the report published by Dame Elizabeth Gloster, on which we took oral evidence this morning. Clause 1 enables a very significant Government decision to step in and compensate people for the collapse of an investment firm. The estimated cost given by the Treasury for that decision is about £120 million. As the Minister pointed out on Second Reading, it is rare that the Government do that.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  23. That is why our amendment calls for a report. Having taken the decision to compensate, we believe it would be in the public interest for the Treasury to set out the circumstances under which the taxpayer might be expected to pay when investors lose money. Is it about a firm being authorised by the FCA? Is it about commissioning a report by an eminent and independent figure such as Dame Elizabeth Gloster?

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  24. Is it the case that even though a number of mini-bond issuers have collapsed in recent years, LCF is the only one that was authorised and regulated by the FCA? The Minister can intervene now or I am happy to wait. As I said to the Ministers on Second Reading, there must have been a discussion in the Treasury about developing a compensation scheme such as the one set out in clause 1. The question would have been asked: if we did this for LCF, what about investors in the Connaught fund or Blackmore Bond or any of the other investment schemes that were raised either on Second Reading or during the oral evidence session this morning? What was the nature of those discussions at the Treasury and what is it about LCF that makes the Government convinced that compensation is due in this case but not in the others?

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  25. He said: “LCF is unique in that regard; indeed, it is the only mini-bond issuer that was authorised by the FCA and that sold bonds to on-lend to other companies.” —[ Official Report, 8 June 2021; Vol. 696, c. 918.] That is an exact replica, with both Ministers saying the same thing, and I suspect that that phrase has been very carefully honed inside the Treasury. A case had to be made for the uniqueness of this that could not be applied to other investment failures, so I think that form of words is very carefully chosen. However, the Minister may be able to tell us more when he responds. The amendment is designed to tease out the following point, which I want to clarify with the Minister.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  26. Dame Elizabeth confirmed during oral evidence this morning that once the ISA wrapper status was allocated in 2017, the degree of investment in those mini-bonds rose markedly, because people would have thought they were investing in something safe. The adverts spoke, in fact, of a 100% record in paying out, when what we were really dealing with was a pyramid scheme where any pay-outs that did come came from other investors and not normal market returns. People thought they were investing in a safe bond. They did not think they were playing investment roulette. The Economic Secretary also emphasised the uniqueness of the LCF case in his closing speech on Second Reading.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  27. My hon. Friend is right; the lacuna referred to in the report relates particularly to the allocation of ISA status. We asked Dame Elizabeth about that during the oral evidence session this morning. This is important because if there are two things that gave the mini-bonds the stamp of respectability, it would be that prominent in LCF’s advertising was the statement that it was regulated by the FCA, which at firm level was true but was not true of the mini-bonds being sold, and that they could be placed inside an ISA wrapper. Although it is, of course, true that people who invest in ISAs can lose money, for understandable reasons, the ISA wrapper has a certain cachet and a note of respectability.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  28. Yet, in the vast majority of cases nothing was passed up the line of pursuit, in large part because the mini-bonds were not regulated by the FCA, so the call-handlers’ instincts were, “You’re phoning us about something that we do not regulate, so we don’t have to pass it up the line”—even though the firm as a whole was regulated by the FCA.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  29. I do not want to go through them in detail because we will come on to other amendments in which they can be discussed, but I will mention a few of them briefly: misleading promotions by LCF using the halo effect have been regulated by the FCA yet not adequately dealt with by the financial promotions team at the FCA; a failure by the same financial promotions team to join the dots and alert other parts of the FCA, such as the supervisory team, on the implications of those misleading promotions; and multiple attempts to alert the FCA—more than 600 phone calls, according to annex 6 of Dame Elizabeth’s report.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  30. I am grateful to the Minister. I am just going through this series of things to try to clarify exactly what might place the taxpayer on the hook. Does it require the kind of report carried out by Dame Elizabeth Gloster and commissioned by the FCA into the collapse of LCF? Is there a clear threshold of regulatory failure to be passed? There was obviously regulatory failure in this case, but, as we saw from the witnesses this morning, people will argue that other regulatory failures have applied to other firms. In this case, the regulatory failures were multiple.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  31. Is there any upper limit that the Treasury would see to such taxpayer exposure, or is it always to be on a case-by-case basis? In theory, investment failings could cost billions rather than hundreds of millions. Our amendment seeks to clarify the Government’s thinking on that, which would be beneficial to Parliament and the public. Those are the reasons why we have tabled this amendment. We think that the compensation scheme and the whole story of the collapse of LCF demands such clarity and that reports such as the one we have called for would be beneficial.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  32. My hon. Friend raises a very important point. There are many reasons why clarity about the limitations of Government responsibility and taxpayer responsibility, to put it another way, would be extremely helpful. The very fact of producing the Bill will mean that the Government have asked those questions anyway. As I said earlier, the cost in this case is expected to be about £120 million. The costs of clause 2, which we will come to later, are expected to be over £300 million. Over both clauses the cost will therefore be more than £400 million. That is a large sum of public money that will, in the case of clause 2, be recouped over a period of years from pension scheme members. Of course, it is possible to have investment failings on an even greater scale.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  33. I want to ask the Minister about the point he made about on-lending. What is the relationship between on-lending and the degree of regulatory failure? He is probably right that this was the only firm doing on-lending, but Dame Elizabeth’s report focuses on an egregious regulatory failure and she sets out all the different things that we will discuss. I suspect that the Government have found something about this case that is unique in order to insulate themselves from claims from other investment failures. I do not see the relationship between that uniqueness and the regulatory failures outlined in Dame Elizabeth’s report.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  34. It looks to me as though they have had to find a unique element to insulate themselves from court action or other claims.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  35. I am grateful for the Minister’s response. I am not entirely convinced about the relationship between on-lending and the decision to compensate. I am sure that the Minister is correct in the literal sense that this was the only regulated firm that was selling unregulated mini-bonds. I am not saying that the Minister is wrong, but from reading the report I believe that Dame Elizabeth would have made the same findings. The mini-bonds were not doing what it said on the tin: they were not on-lending but pyramid selling. The degree of failure, the degree of investment loss and the degree of regulatory failure are not directly related to the point about on-lending: it is more substantial than that. I am not convinced that all the elements of the Government’s case add up.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  36. We are trying to put ourselves into discussions that we have not been party to so, to some extent, I am speculating on the way that the Government have built their argument. I have made the point and I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn .

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  37. We asked the FCA this morning whether this could happen again and, understandably, the witness from the FCA said that he could not tell us for sure that it could not.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  38. How should the Government and the FCA respond to the issue of regulated companies and unregulated products? In theory, one response could be to say that regulated companies can only sell regulated products, but that would involve a major extension of regulation. That is not to say that that is necessarily wrong, but it would be a big step. For example, foreign exchange trading is not regulated but it is carried out by every high street bank in the country and they are, of course, regulated entities. If the answer is not a major extension of regulatory responsibilities, what is it? Is it the Government’s position that there is no need to look at this because this was such a one-off event that cannot be repeated? How can we be sure of that?

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  39. The Minister gave evidence to the Treasury Committee a few months ago and he said it was not an issue about the perimeter, but about the failure to use the enforcement and supervision powers that the FCA already had. I understand what he means by that. He is saying that if the FCA had acted on the reports that it had received, a great deal less damage would have been done and the taxpayer would not be faced with the compensation bill set out in the Bill. Even though I understand the point he made, the perimeter is still relevant because it informed attitudes inside the FCA on how alarmed it should be about calls reporting concerns about LCF and whether it should act. That behaviour was influenced by the fact that the calls were about products that were not regulated.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  40. As the report says, once ISA status was granted to these mini-bonds, investment in them grew markedly. Putting money into an ISA is thought to be a responsible thing to do. People believe that those operating ISAs are respectable companies and not those engaged in what are, in effect, pyramid selling schemes like the one that LCF was operating. That is why this issue is particularly important. Recommendation 12 is about the optimal remit of the FCA. That matters because the failure of LCF sits so squarely on the boundary of regulated companies selling unregulated products. The FCA’s remit is known in the parlance as the perimeter.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  41. The fifth recommendation deals with the financial promotion rules and what to do about breaches when red flags should be raised. Page 49 highlights recommendations more for the Treasury than the FCA. As we discussed a moment ago, the first of those deals with what Dame Elizabeth calls a lacuna in the allocation of the ISA-related responsibilities between the FCA and HMRC. The Minister referred to a working group—I think that is the phrase that he used—and I hope it reaches a conclusion quickly. Such a response is common in the catastrophe word bingo that we often hear. A working group is okay, but it has to deal with the lacuna that has been identified. Just saying that something is regulated by the FCA gives it an aura of safety and respectability and so does saying that about investments in an ISA wrapper.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  42. Even if staff could tick a box that said that a phone call was about something that it did not regulate, the FCA was still on the hook at the end of the day if the firm failed, as the Bill now shows. The recommendation therefore requires a major change in how the FCA thinks about unregulated products. The next two recommendations are about how the FCA deals with information passed on to it and how it is shared. Again, they highlight a failing in how the LCF information was handled. As we have said, the financial promotions team intervened several times to warn the company about the misleading nature of its promotions as it kept saying that it was regulated by the FCA. However, the financial promotions team did not escalate this information to other parts of the organisation that could have taken action.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  43. The first recommendation is the desire to treat the regulation of companies holistically; that is, to deal with the halo effect of regulated companies selling unregulated products. That was at the very heart of the regulatory failures over LCF. It was a big part of why the many phone calls to the FCA alerting staff to investor fears about what was going on went unheeded. Indeed, Dame Elizabeth’s report records many instances where calls were not acted on because the mini-bonds concerned were not regulated. There is a whole annex containing the transcripts and I will not delay the Committee with them at the moment, but they are all set out in the report. The failure to act exposed a major weakness in the FCA’s approach.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  44. Every time there is a public failing, we hear some familiar things being said. In fact, we could almost play word bingo with them. People talk about lessons learned and new systems being put in place, and sometimes there is change of leadership or a change of the management team—all those things. In the report, there was a very well publicised disagreement about the nature of accountability and responsibility involving Dame Elizabeth and the now Governor of the Bank of England, who led the FCA at the time. That was all played out in front of the Treasury Committee over several hearings early this year. I want to focus on the 13 specific recommendations on pages 47 to 49. I am not going to go through them in huge detail, but I will mention a few.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  45. One of the most telling parts of Dame Elizabeth’s report is when she discusses the loss of a letter sent to the FCA by a financial adviser called Neil Liversidge in November 2015, fully three years before the collapse of LCF. The letter warned in fairly graphic language, some of which I read out on Second Reading, what was going on at LCF and the financial adviser’s concern. Dame Elizabeth’s damning conclusion is that even if the letter had not been lost in the FCA, which appears to be what happened, so dysfunctional was the FCA that it would not have done anything about it anyway. She says on page 78 of the report: “it is unlikely that it would have resulted in any” action by the FCA. She found that degree of dysfunctionality to be deep and in need of urgent attention, as set out in the recommendations.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  46. We heard Dame Elizabeth say this morning that if she reached one overall conclusion that she wanted us to understand, it would be about the degree of culture change necessary for the FCA to fulfil its statutory duties. The fact that she judged that the culture that existed was so inappropriate that it stopped the FCA from doing its statutory job effectively is a serious charge. It is, after all, the body that we depend on to uphold the consumer interest and charged with ensuring proper conduct in the sale and provision of financial services. I do not need to tell anybody on the Committee how important those are, either to everyday life or to the UK economy.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  47. I beg to move amendment 2, in clause 1, page 1, line 15, at end insert— “(3A) Within six months of this Act receiving Royal Assent, the Secretary of State shall lay before Parliament a report setting out progress on the implementation of the recommendations in pages 47 to 49 of the Gloster Report.” This amendment would require the Secretary of State to lay before Parliament a report setting out progress on the implementations of the thirteen recommendations in the Gloster Report. Amendment 2 concerns the recommendations made in Dame Elizabeth’s report. It is a long report, but I am specifically referring to the series of conclusions and recommendations made on pages 47 to 49. As the Minister said a few moments ago, some of those recommendations are for the FCA and others are for the Government.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  48. If not, the Government have to act because the public need the protection of a powerful regulator. The imbalance of information between the sellers of financial services products and the buyers absolutely demands that. This amendment is aimed at our receiving a report on the 13 recommendations and on their implementation by both the FCA and the Treasury. Its acceptance would provide Parliament and the public with a mechanism to ensure that statements saying that the recommendations had been accepted had actually been followed through and action taken.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  49. Much more communication needs to take place between different parts of the FCA while, crucially, not dropping the ball on regulated firms and unregulated products. It is unfair of any of us, in government or in opposition, to load more responsibilities on to the FCA if it does not have the resources to fulfil them. We are clear in our amendment that the resources of the FCA have to be covered. Does the FCA have the resources to meet the ever-expanding list of responsibilities, including those on-shored as a result of our departure from the EU? It is funded through a levy on the sectors for which it is responsible. Is the levy giving it enough resources? The failure of LCF exposed such a degree of dysfunctionality that it prompted the question: can the FCA really do its job?

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD

  50. We will have to return to it again and again in the House, but recommendation 13 is precisely about legislation on selling things through technological platforms, and the Government and the FCA will have to adapt to it or they will fall behind the reality of the market and of financial crime. Most of these issues have been put in the hands of the new chief executive, Nikhil Rathi, and the trans-formation programme to which the Minister referred on Second Reading. How are we to know that the 13 recommendations have been implemented? It is easy when a report is published to say, “We accept the findings.” The key is: are they followed through and properly implemented? Dame Elizabeth’s report should be more than a series of individual recommendations. As she said this morning, it should result in a culture change.

    COMPENSATION (LONDON CAPITAL & FINANCE PLC AND FRAUD COMPENSATION FUND) BILL (SECOND SITTING) · 2021-06-15 · READ IN HANSARD