Pat McFadden
MP for Wolverhampton South East · Labour · United Kingdom
“In his review Alan Milburn considered that issue and said that, “the UK’s NEET crisis is much more long-term and deep-seated than any decisions taken in the last few years.” As I said earlier, 400,000 more people are in work this year than last year, and the number of young people in employment is up since the election.”
“Since our last DWP questions, both Alan Milburn and the Pensions Commission have published their respective interim reports on young people and on the current state of saving for retirement. I look forward to receiving their final reports later in the year.”
“As Alan Milburn pointed out in his recent report, the UK’s NEET crisis is much more long-term and deep-seated than any decisions taken in the last few years. There are 400,000 more people in work than last year. The number of young people in employment is up by 74,000 since the election.”
“I thank the right hon. Gentleman and send him commiserations for whatever has left him reliant on his crutches today. I am happy to congratulate the businesses he mentioned in his constituency. He raises a serious point: it is important not only to come up with the right policy, but to make it simple for businesses to use.”
“My hon. Friend is right, and I thank Cardiff football club for being a partner. We are supporting nearly 1 million young people and creating up to half a million opportunities for jobs and training.”
“We are making strong progress on expanding youth hubs, with around 130 already in operation across Great Britain. In March, I announced the locations that we want to open in this year, and I have just announced a further 180 locations for the following two years.”
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“We want a ladder of opportunity for people of all backgrounds, and that should include the most talented apprentices getting the chance to go on to higher education in a way that many young people from other backgrounds take for granted.”
“I would hope that the whole higher education system is committed to access and to providing enhanced opportunities for people from all backgrounds, but we know that that has not happened in some areas. The report led by my right hon. Friend the Member for Darlington (Mr. Milburn), for example, pointed out that hardly any apprentices go on to higher education. That is one reason why we have backed the recommendation in that report to create a scholarship for up to 1,000 people to go on to higher education each year. We do not want the traditional academic and vocational divide that means the two sides never meet.”
“Two critical things are needed to make skills accounts work and to avoid the problems that happened last time, to which the hon. Gentleman referred. The first is proper accreditation for the providers, which we have built into the paper and which will ensure that we have good, high-quality providers giving a high-quality range of choice to individuals. The second thing is to have good information for individual learners, and I refer him to work done by the UK Commission for Employment and Skills. The commission has produced a good traffic light system along the lines of food labelling—”
“Yes, the system is shown on page 62 of the document. It covers things such as earning potential, the quality of the course and the employability that people will have as a result. If empowerment and choice are to work as we want, high-quality information of that kind for individuals is essential. Both of the conditions that I have set out are met in the report.”
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right. My hon. Friend the Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Andrew Miller) talked about the importance of the retail industry, but another sector where Britain enjoys enormous strengths that we want to keep and build on is the pharmaceutical industry. That is precisely why it is right for us not only to create a target—a new objective—but to back it up with hard cash for 30,000 new level 3 apprenticeships, thus creating precisely the kind of technical skills in the technician level that are valuable to pharmaceutical companies, such as those mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart).”
“In my time as a Minister, I do not think that I have ever refused a meeting with a Member of any party in the House, and I am not about to start doing so now. Of course, I am happy to see the hon. Gentleman, but such skills shortages show precisely the need for the policies that we are outlining today. The kind of low-carbon company that he mentioned needs the level 3 skills. That is why we are putting more emphasis on them. They are precisely the kind of skills that will be needed as we come out of the recession and try to support businesses that will contribute to economic growth in the future.”
“We are in regular dialogue with the universities. The participation rates in higher education have increased hugely since the Government came to power. I think that I am right in saying that some 300,000 more students are now in higher education, compared with when the previous Government were in power, and to support that progress, we have supported the funding of an extra 10,000 places this academic year.”
“I heartily agree that low-carbon skills are essential for the future. Therefore, I cannot for the life of me understand why the Scottish National party-led Administration in Scotland do not support the need for a new generation of nuclear power stations to contribute to that, with all the jobs and skills that that would entail. The hon. Gentleman talks the talk, but he will not walk the walk. Labour Members want the population in Scotland to have access to the same high-quality jobs and skills that that transition to low carbon will create as people have in England.”
“This Government have helped 6 million people get better skills for life in recent years. I agree that taking that first step is essential, and nothing that we suggest in the paper will detract from that. We also say in the paper that we want to place great emphasis on the technician level, which will be the real driver of economic growth in the future. I do not believe there is a choice between the kind of life-enhancing opportunity that my hon. Friend describes, and economic growth and the need for a technician level of skills that we emphasise in the paper.”
“The wisest course of action for me is to consider that issue, discuss it with my hon. Friend the Minister for Further Education, Skills, Apprenticeships and Consumer Affairs, and write to the hon. Gentleman.”
“I take exception to Opposition Members attacking our record on capital spending in further education. Let me give the hon. Gentleman the facts: 700 projects in 300 colleges worth £2.7 billion in expenditure. Contrast that with the amount in the last year that his party was in power: no projects, no colleges, not a single penny.”
“I am happy to look at the constituency example that my hon. Friend cites. We made the Train to Gain budget more flexible during the recession by allowing it to be used for shorter courses and also for repeat qualifications, but we are making it very clear that in a world of constrained resources, looking to the future, we will want to focus that budget more readily on areas of future economic growth, and to use some of it to fund the level 3 technician apprenticeships that I have spoken about today.”
“I know that my hon. Friend is a strong campaigner for her city and the college there. I remind her of the figure that I quoted a moment ago: we have spent some £2.7 billion on renewing the further education estate. I do not believe that her constituents will be disadvantaged by greater power and choice. It is good to give people greater power and choice—to let them drive the system, provided that the providers are properly accredited and that people have good, high-quality information. We are determined to ensure that those two conditions are met.”
“My hon. Friend makes a very good point. I regularly visit engineering companies in my constituency, where people tell me that they have good, sometimes well-paid jobs, but they feel that young people have a distorted image of engineering, manufacturing and so on. In conjunction with the Engineering Employers Federation, we have set up an organisation, co-funded by the manufacturing industries, called Manufacturing Insight. Its task is to get out, get into schools and inspire young people with the powerful vision of a country that makes things and the careers that go with that. The policies that we have outlined today will help to equip people for those careers in the future.”
“I certainly agree with the first half of what my hon. Friend said. That is why the Government, working with colleagues in the Department for Transport and the Department of Energy and Climate Change, have a low-carbon industrial strategy, part of which is designed to ensure that Britain is a leading player in low-carbon transport, be it hybrid or electric vehicles. Countries have a simple choice: they either buy these technologies from elsewhere or make an effort to be manufacturers of those technologies. We very much want to take the latter route.”
“David Drew presented a Bill to require certain authorities to maintain a register of the destination of recycled materials; and for connected purposes. Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time tomorrow, and to be printed (Bill 165).”
“If we think back to the first industrial revolution, much of it was driven by energy resources—coal, steam, gas and oil. Those resources fuelled and funded the technologies of the 20th century. We stand on the brink of a second industrial revolution, which is the shift to low carbon. I absolutely agree with my right hon. Friend about the importance of this. The role of RDAs is to work with local authorities, educational resources and employers in their area to fashion a regional strategy that meets the needs locally and regionally. That is a powerful vision, it is something that I believe they will be good at, and it is backed by the document that we have produced today. Bill Presented Waste Recycling (End Use Register) Bill Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57) Mr.”
“If the disruption is prolonged, the Department of Health and NHS trusts will make alternative arrangements to transport appointment notifications, blood samples and test results. We urge both sides to make every effort to avoid damaging industrial action and to resolve this dispute. That is what is in the interests of the Royal Mail, its employees and its customers. I commend this statement to the House.”
“We will, of course, continue to encourage a settlement, but we cannot impose good industrial relations on the company, or disinvent the internet. An independent third party may well be needed to help the two sides resolve their differences. ACAS is engaged, but we have to be realistic: it will be far easier for ACAS to play an effective role if the threat of a national strike is lifted. The Government are ensuring that vital services to the public, especially those who are most vulnerable, are maintained. If necessary, the Department for Work and Pensions will implement plans to ensure that the small minority of pensioners and others on benefits who still receive their cheques in the post will be able to pick them up from their nearest post office.”
“When it comes to financing, the Government and the taxpayer have not held back. We have made available £1.2 billion to finance a modernisation and investment programme, and that remains on the table. We are, of course, in frequent contact with both management and the union. They have continued talking today, and we strongly welcome that. Our message to them has been clear: put your customers first; strikes are not the way to resolve differences or safeguard the future of our postal services. The Royal Mail needs management and unions to have a relentless focus on turning it into an efficient, modern postal company, protecting as many jobs as possible and providing customers with the services that they need. Both sides should put behind them, once and for all, the endless cycle of disputes.”
“Royal Mail’s finances will be plunged into the red. Last year, out of a £6.7 billion mail business turnover, the company made less than 1 per cent profit. One thing that the company cannot afford is strikes and industrial action. Change in a big organisation is never easy, but for the Royal Mail it is unavoidable. Let me make it clear that, contrary to what some may say, the dispute is not about pensions. The trustees are engaged in their periodic assessment of the pensions deficit and, lest there be any doubt, let me make it clear that the Government’s policy on the pensions deficit will not be dictated by strike action. The Government were prepared to take on the pensions deficit as part of a package of modernising measures set out in the Postal Services Bill. Sadly, however, the CWU did not support those proposals.”
“Taking industrial action will not resolve the dispute; it will serve only to drive more customers away from Royal Mail. In the delivery of parcels—where there would otherwise be a prospect of growth—Royal Mail’s reputation for reliability could be irrevocably damaged and in the delivery of letters such action will lead to a further twist in the downward spiral of mail volumes. Business will be quick to recognise that, while one can picket a delivery office to stop the service or refuse to deliver letters, one cannot picket the ever present internet. Royal Mail’s small business customers will look on with anger and exasperation. Just as there are signs of the economy recovering and the prospects for their businesses improving, strikes now will set them back and put their businesses in jeopardy.”
“Outdated working practices have been replaced and efficiency is being improved, but in other parts of the country—most notably in London—there has been repeated non-co-operation and industrial action to frustrate the agreement’s implementation. It is claimed by union representatives that in London the management are unilaterally imposing change that goes beyond the 2007 agreement’s first three phases. Management contest that, pointing out that all that London is being asked to accept is what everyone else in the country is delivering under the first three phases. It is those local disputes that have now escalated into the threatened national strike. I very much regret what is happening and, to put it candidly, we think that it is totally self-defeating for our postal services and for those who work in them.”
“The first three have been introduced throughout the country but are being resisted in some places, which I will come to shortly. The changes have involved the introduction of more walk-sorting machines and new working practices including expecting employees to do the full number of hours that they are paid to work. Phase four, the next phase of modernisation, is yet to be agreed in substance rather than outline and will be about a new framework for improving industrial relations. That will include introducing walk-sequencing machines to sort the postal delivery round and developing new business opportunities along with a new system for rewarding employees. In the majority of Royal Mail’s workplaces, phases one to three of the national agreement have been implemented without any local industrial action being mounted.”
“We know from the Hooper review on postal services about the company’s need to change and reform in the face of a postal market that is being transformed as people switch to text, e-mail and direct debit, and as the growing area of mail, which is parcels, offers a variety of alternative operators from which to choose. Royal Mail has to respond to the fact that 10 million fewer letters are posted each day than were posted three years ago, and that total mail volumes have fallen by a further 8 per cent. in the first half of this year. In other words, if it stands still, the company faces terminal decline. Following a national strike two years ago, the union—the CWU—and management reached a national agreement on pay and modernisation. The agreement set a framework of four phases for bringing essential change to Royal Mail.”
“With permission, Mr. Speaker, I wish to repeat a statement made by my noble Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills about the decision of the Communication Workers Union to take national industrial action later this week. No one is in doubt about the damage that such industrial action will cause, but those who advocate strike action have not been clear about why it is threatened. The dispute at the Royal Mail is about modernisation, which has been the subject of localised strikes, particularly in London, for many months.”
“and learned Gentleman spoke about the Postal Services Bill. I note his party’s position, as set out in the Financial Times this morning. We said that we would not proceed with the Bill at this time owing to market conditions, and that is precisely what his party set out as its position in the Financial Times this morning. It too would want to test the market before proceeding with the Bill. I note his position on that, as set out this morning.”
“There is, of course, nothing new about the Royal Mail hiring temporary staff at this time of year. It does that every year. This year it is hiring more because of the situation that it faces. The right hon. and learned Gentleman asked me about Government involvement. The Government have put up £1.2 billion to finance the modernisation that is at the heart of the dispute. Far from that being delayed or held back by the dispute, we want to see it proceed because that is in the interests of the Royal Mail and its workers. What we cannot do is impose on the company the productive industrial relations that are needed for that to happen. In the end, ACAS involvement or not, that must be down to management and unions working through the issues that are needed to take modernisation forward. The right hon.”
“If a major shift is made by those companies, away from mail to paperless billing and greater incentives for direct debit payment, it could do permanent damage to Royal Mail’s prospects. Again, my fear is that industrial action would only make such a shift more likely. The hon. Gentleman asked about the delivery of pensions and benefits. Those sent through the post are now a fairly small minority; most are paid either directly into bank accounts or through the Post Office card account. As I said, for the minority who still receive benefits through the post, the Department for Work and Pensions will make arrangements to try to ensure that people do not lose out on the money to which they are entitled.”
“I shall try to go through the issues that the hon. Gentleman raises. He is absolutely right that the world has changed and people have communications alternatives. That stark fact should concentrate everyone’s minds as they stand on the threshold of the dispute. It is why, indeed, a strike would be so tragic for our postal service and those who work in it. The hon. Gentleman referred to the switch from mail, and, as I said in my statement, there is already a highly developed market in parcels. High street retail chains already, sadly, carry adverts saying, “Fed up with postal strikes? We don’t use the Royal Mail”, and I fear that we will simply see more of that if the strike goes ahead. Some 50 companies account for some 40 per cent. of the mail that is posted by letter every day.”
“My right hon. Friend makes his point very effectively. On third party involvement, ACAS is engaged, but I believe that it would be far better able to carry out the very effective role that it often can carry out if the threat of industrial action were lifted. ACAS stands ready to give assistance in the dispute, and, if the management and union believe that that would be effective, the service is available. My right hon. Friend is absolutely right: in the end, whatever the involvement of a third party, it will be down to the management and the union to work out for Royal Mail a future that gets away from the pattern, seen not just once but consistently, of localised disputes, time and time again, over changes that would be normal practice in other parts of industry.”
“Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (John Thurso), there are alternatives, and we are all using them every day.”
“During discussions on the Hooper package we were told time and again that there was no need for some of the reforms suggested in it because everyone was up for change. Yet since the Government said that we would not proceed with the Bill at this stage, we have seen not change but a return to the destructive pattern of industrial disputes over change and modernisation in the postal service. There was an opportunity for those who disagreed with the Hooper package to show that change could be delivered, but that opportunity has not been taken up; in fact, the very opposite has happened. On regulation, we will encourage a closer working together of Postcomm and Ofcom, because the postal service must be seen in the light of the wider communications market. To go back to the point made by the hon.”
“It is absolutely not the case that the Government are washing their hands of this dispute. We remain in regular contact with the union and the management. Ministers have met union representatives twice in recent weeks, and we are also in regular contact with the management. As I said, ACAS is engaged and stands ready to help, but of course it is easier for it to play a constructive role if the threat of industrial action is lifted.”
“It is certainly true that one of the changes agreed in the 2007 agreement is that, instead of the previous practice, which was known as job and finish and sometimes meant people going home a couple of hours before the end of the hours for which they were paid, postal workers would work the hours for which they were paid, which might also mean being more flexible about how they went about their job during that period.”
“Discussions about phase four of the agreement are continuing. That is absolutely essential, because in many ways phase four is more important than phases one to three. Phase four is about the large-scale introduction of walk-sequencing machines that will sort the round by post and, if that change is introduced successfully, place Royal Mail on a par with some of the more modernised postal services elsewhere in Europe.”
“Competition exists in the postal service, and it will not go away and cannot be wished away. I want a Royal Mail that is fit to win in that market, rather than one that simply wishes competition to go away. The most fundamental challenge to Royal Mail is not competition from other mail companies but competition from other communications technologies. That must lie at the heart of the response to the threatened dispute.”
“The dismay and anger will be on the part of the public, who cannot understand why a strike should proceed. I have seen a number of interviews about the dispute with spokespeople in recent days, and although various grievances have been outlined, no clear reason has been given why the country, the economy and the public should be facing a national postal strike this week. ACAS is ready to play a role, but it will be far better able to do so if the threat of industrial action is lifted.”
“We have been clear throughout that we will keep Royal Mail in the public sector, and there is no hidden agenda to privatise it. We made that clear throughout the debates on the Hooper report.”
“The best way to allay the fears of the work force is to have a secure agreement about the modernisation of Royal Mail that is implemented. Whether or not third parties are involved, that is what must come out of this. The tragedy is that we could achieve that without a national dispute and the damage that it causes.”
“I am afraid that I cannot agree with the hon. Gentleman that we should put the issue of mail centres on ice. We have pretty much the same number of centres around the country as we had before the internet was invented. I do not know whether he heard what I said in my statement about the fall in mail volumes, but of course that will mean changes to mail centres. I appreciate the effect that that can have in an area if it loses its mail centre, but I have to disagree with him because it would be wrong for the Government to instruct Royal Mail that it had to keep the same number of mail centres for ever and a day when it is trying to introduce change throughout the rest of the company.”
“Let me read out Royal Mail’s statement on the story: “The contents of the e-mail sent to us by Newsnight do not reflect Royal Mail’s policy, strategy or position in relation to the current dispute with the CWU…No member of the board or the senior management team at Royal Mail has seen, or is aware of any such presentation…For the avoidance of any doubt Royal Mail has never had any strategy to derecognise the CWU and nor would we seek to do so.””
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that there has been a history of poor industrial relations in Royal Mail. Not only did we have a national strike two years ago and various local disputes in between, leading up to the current situation, but poor industrial relations have been a constant feature of the attempt to introduce change in the company. My hon. Friend referred to a story that was in the media over the weekend.”
“There is no question of our not being in touch with those involved in the dispute. As I said, we have been in regular touch with people on both sides of it. On the question of lost business, the fear for Royal Mail is that people have alternatives. If the company’s service is constantly threatened by strike action, the likelihood is that people will use alternatives. I believe that that is tragic for Royal Mail, for our postal service and for the good men and women who work in it.”
“I am not aware of the announcement to which my hon. Friend refers. I agree that cool heads are probably required in this situation, because if the strike goes ahead, it will not be in the interests of Royal Mail or those who work in it.”
“The frustration of the situation is that everyone says that they are up for change in the face of the technological revolution to which the right hon. and learned Gentleman refers, but when it comes down to it, attempts to implement change are constantly frustrated by disputes. It is absolutely true that Royal Mail and its workers must get beyond that pattern if we are to have a prosperous postal service in future and to maintain the universal service that, as a social glue, is so important to the whole country.”
“My understanding is that the 30,000 people recruited are not agency workers, but that they are directly hired, as Royal Mail hires every year. My hon. Friend is absolutely right—I have huge respect for him—that it will take two sides to negotiate a proper solution. Talks are taking place today—I said this in my statement—and we welcome that. We hope even at this late stage that a settlement is possible without the damaging industrial action that has been threatened. My message to both sides is this: keep talking, keep focusing on the public, keep focusing on the small businesses that depend on Royal Mail and try to avoid the strike action threatened for later this week.”
“Royal Mail does not have a monopoly, and that is the point that I am making. It operates in a competitive environment, and if a strike goes ahead, those who can use alternatives will be more likely to do so. That will be damaging for Royal Mail and it will also damage those who work for it. That is why a strike would be self-defeating, and we should do all that we can to avoid it.”
“The allegation in London by the union is that management have gone beyond the agreement reached in 2007. Management contests that and says that all that London is being expected to implement are the changes that have already been accepted and implemented throughout the country. It is precisely that point about which the two sides are meeting as we speak, to talk it through and try to avoid industrial action later this week.”
“As I said, we have remained in constant touch with both sides and we have urged them to focus on the public—the people who depend on Royal Mail—and avoid strike action. Of course we stand ready to help in any way we can, but we cannot impose good industrial relations on a company that has a history of going on strike whenever an attempt is made to implement change.”