Jim Shannon
MP for Strangford · Democratic Unionist Party · United Kingdom
“I thank the Minister for those answers. This has happened three times in three years. Normally, on the third strike, you are out. Instead, the chief executive gets an £871,000 bonus. For people in Northern Ireland, a flight to Great Britain is a basic utility. When NATS crashed, my constituents were entirely cut off.”
“When it comes to lobbying, Northern Ireland has a peculiar circumstance where one party can be involved in politics in Northern Ireland and at the same time be involved in politics in the Republic of Ireland. When it comes to the accountability that the hon.”
“Member for North East Fife referred to this—everybody knew every officer in the area where they lived. Different times mean different pressures and different needs, but I have always supported community policing in all my years as an elected representative, throughout my time on the council and in the Northern Ireland Assembly before comi…”
“I will say this to the Minister: although policing is a devolved matter for us back home, I want to make some comments, if I may, about the focus of the police, which means they sometimes do what is unnecessary. I will give an example.”
“The hon. Gentleman is a Leicester City supporter, as I am; we do not have to seek our sorrows at this moment in time, but that is by the way. More importantly, his comments underline the issues for local independent pharmacy owners. As the hon.”
“That is the reality for these people, who have consciences, feel compassion and want to care for their patients and customers. The impact is clear, because almost 90% of pharmacies in Northern Ireland were unable to pay their wholesaler bill in January. Think about what that means for a second: that is real pressure.”
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“There are over 2,200 credit unions providing ethical financial services to more than 1.5 million people, holding £2.71 billion in assets, £2.33 billion in savings and £1.83 billion in lending. Their differences mean that they can lend responsibly with good rates to those who are classified as excluded communities, with 31% of the community development credit union pathfinder members being “cash-strapped families”, and 21% falling into the “hard-up” or “challenging circumstances” categories. Credit unions are often the only fair option for such individuals and it is really good to have them on board. Some 56% of credit unions offer payroll savings, and “save as you borrow” schemes turn 67% of previous non-savers into regular savers. Prize-linked savings also incentivise saving behaviour.”
“With the rise in membership comes the need to ensure that the institution is financially safe and sound, which is always important. I am thankful for the credit unions in my constituency; I can think of three straight away. The one in Kircubbin, which took over the premises of the Northern bank, or Danske bank, is an offshoot of the credit union in Portaferry, which I have supported the whole way through. There is also an active credit union in Newtownards that provides a wonderful service to get people on the road to financial stability. That is what credit unions do: they help people to save and ensure that they borrow and spend their money wisely.”
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The 34% growth of the credit union in Northern Ireland indicates its success. She is correct that there is certainly more it could do. Total assets have passed £1.9 billion, having increased by 1.6% in the third quarter of 2022. Lending is also strong, with the loan book increasing by 8.3% year on year. Membership of credit unions in Northern Irelands stands at 571,000. To put that in context, Northern Ireland’s population is 1.96 million. That is a success story. It is lovely to tell everyone about what we are doing in Northern Ireland, and the hon. Member for Cumbernauld and Kirkintilloch was generous in her comments and acknowledged the good stuff we do. The figures represent a 30% increase over the past 10 years.”
“I commend the right hon. Lady. The word is used often, but she is a champion for her constituents, who will today be impressed and proud of what she has done. On those 800 jobs, does she share my concern that there been no consultation about the impact on the local economy and the community? That is incredible. How can that happen without Government having some oversight and say in what happens?”
“The hon. Gentleman is indeed my near-neighbour—we are just divided by a bit of water—and I have very much appreciated his friendship and support over the years. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that Wedgetail is the most technologically advanced system available and will provide UK defence with eyes in the sky for at least the next 20 years, to see far beyond what ground-based systems and fighter aircraft sensors can see. However, does he agree that future-proofing—in other words, the vision, which I think is what he is talking about—is an essential tool? Will he join me in pressing the Ministry of Defence to continue its innovation drive, for example with Thales in Belfast but with other companies as well, to make sure that we are advanced in such a way that we can defend and protect?”
“I commend the hon. Lady, who has made a reputation for herself in the Chamber by asking all the questions. I understand this is her first Westminster Hall debate, and I congratulate her on it and wish her well. Last year there were almost 19,000 UCAS applicants who self-identified as young adult carers. That is around 4% of all applicants. I spoke to the hon. Lady before the debate; does she agree that more support must be offered in further education settings to those who have caring responsibilities—from caring for a parent or being a parent themselves—so they can achieve educational standards?”
“I commend the hon. Lady for securing this debate. I spoke to her beforehand about issue, which comes up regularly in my constituency office, so I commend her for securing this debate. Does she not agree that certain illnesses should have an automatic blue badge entitlement? Saying that someone has nine months to live rather than six months because of cancer or a terminal illness does not take into account the havoc that is also caused when someone has fatigue and breathing problems. The current system is much too stringent and puts pressure on GPs to write in support of something that really is a no-brainer and should not be necessary at all.”
“I know that cheer was not for me, Mr Speaker. When it comes to offshore wind in Wales, the waters in which that offshore wind energy will be generated are the same waters that flow by Northern Ireland, the same waters that flow by England and the same waters that flow by Scotland. Is it not time to have an offshore wind strategy for the whole United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? If we do it together, we will do it better.”
“I thank the Minister for her answers to all the questions and her strong words on our commitment. I believe those words will encourage us all, and hopefully thereby encourage our constituents. Sudan ranks fifth on the Open Doors world watch list for Christian persecution, with more than 100 churches and Christian buildings forcibly seized in the conflict, with the latest church destroyed just last week. Christians are afraid to practise their faith, and the recent murder of 300 people in North Kordofan has underlined the valid reason that they live in fear. How can the Government assist? More importantly, will the Government intervene and help the people of this region, who are being exterminated just because they are Christians?”
“I commend the hon. Lady on bringing forward this debate. She is absolutely right to celebrate the strike of 1888. Does she agree that the spirit of the matchgirls lives on in our women today? An example of that in my constituency and in hers is that of the WASPI women, who refused to take the wrong done to them lying down, and fought for recognition and fair compensation. The fight that began with the matchgirls’ strike in 1888 clearly still lives on in 2025.”
“How can we tell them that, once they complete their three to four years of education to do that, the funding is simply not there to sustain a job in that field? Can the Minister give us some idea of what we can do for those who are coming through with the potential to help and educate our young people? We can and must do better. While it is understood that this is a devolved matter for us back home in Northern Ireland, and also for Scotland, our central funding comes from here. I thank the Minister for her contributions and social engagement with the relevant Minister back home. I am very keen to hear what she can do.”
“They want to do their best for their children and make sure that the children will be inspired to do their best when they get the opportunity. The other massive question, which was mentioned by the hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells and will be mentioned by others, is about support for the provision of classroom assistants. One-to-one and small group support is crucial but again, unfortunately, the funding is simply not there to sustain their employment. SEND pupils back home already fall behind their peers in other parts of the UK, so we have a big problem, although the Minister’s response will relate to her responsibilities here. My last point is about the hundreds—indeed, thousands—of university students out there with a lifelong dream of working with special needs children in schools.”
“There is a duty of care to children who, due to their educational needs, need that little extra support, and it comes down to money, as most things in the world do. The hon. Gentleman outlined a serious case in his constituency. I have spoken to some of the principals in my constituency of Strangford, who have stated that the current funding is not fit for purpose and that children will be the ones who suffer because of those cuts—a point made by other Members. One teacher said that “it is so difficult when you have a passion for supporting and wanting to do your best for SEN children, but it seems impossible to get the tools to do so. It feels like its always budget cuts and reduced staffing, there is never any good news where you feel inspired to do your best.” That is every teacher who works in the SEND sector.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Edward. I congratulate the hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells (Mike Martin) on setting the scene so well. My contribution to this debate is to support him in his request to his education authority and to outline some of the concerns we have where we are, which are replicated by him and will be replicated by others. The situation back home is no better. The Minister has no responsibility for it—I wish her well in her answers. In Northern Ireland, we have incredible problems with the transformation programme. The budget was cut by 50%—an example of the financial restraints that we are all under, which the hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells and others referred to.”
“I commend the hon. Lady for securing this debate. She is absolutely right to highlight the issue. It is very hard to listen to because the particular circumstances are so personal. Numerous studies have shown that girls and women are more likely to internalise the stress and anxieties that come with autism, whereas boys are likely to be more openly tempered or passive-aggressive. That is a statement rather than an observation. Does the hon. Lady agree that we could work more closely with teachers in schools and other individuals to ensure that young girls struggling with autism have support in the educational system to externalise some of their stress?”
“I was minded, when my hon. Friend had a passport in either hand there, to think, “Which one is best?” Well, we know which one is best: the British one. Does he agree that one of the benefits is that people who designate as Irish can and do have the facility to apply for the greatest passport in the world—the United Kingdom one? There are people who want to have the protection of their local British embassy, yet they are being precluded from that due to a delay that is difficult to understand, so does my hon. Friend further agree that those in Ireland who designate as British must be enabled to have that British protection that we take for granted with no further delay?”
“Let us do our best to ensure that we keep all the ones that are there, so that in the future they can still be parts of the communities that we live in.”
“We do not have a large number of breweries; we have 23 across Northern Ireland, with one of them being in my constituency, but I am very keen to see the opportunities presented by the proposal from the hon. Member for Woking, who as I said set the scene very well, and for us to be able to be part of that. I am ever mindful—others have referred to the news in the paper in the last two weeks about the number of pubs that will close in the United Kingdom over the next period of time; I think one per week was the figure referred to—that there is pressure on the hospitality sector and, in particular, on pubs. They are part of the community. Whether people are going for a drink, to socialise, to have fun, to meet people or for a meal, pubs are integral.”
“We are very keen to ensure that tourism can produce economic advantages, jobs, money and opportunities for small businesses to grow as well. Northern Ireland’s independent breweries need the same opportunities to grow and thrive. Any discussion on Northern Ireland’s top-class beer industry must come with us urging Government to support our local breweries and, obviously, to liaise with the Northern Ireland Assembly to press for reform. That is what I look to the Minister for today. As I said, I will be very happy if the Minister wishes to come back to me on this issue in a letter to indicate what can or cannot be done. The one thing I do know is that we in Northern Ireland want to play our part.”
“That is another negative for those people who want to be more independent, to have more choice and to give their customers more choice. Many of those globally owned breweries do not allow local draught beer to be sold. Currently, the only realistic option for Northern Ireland’s small independent breweries is to export their beer to the rest of the UK or to the Republic of Ireland. In England, Wales and Scotland, small independent breweries are permitted to apply for a licence to properly open taprooms, which helps to create jobs, regenerate the community and grow tourism. The one thing that we have in Northern Ireland and have tried to encourage—this applies in particular to my council, Ards and North Down borough council—is tourism.”
“It is a quirk in the law, but it means that someone has to hand one in so that someone else can buy one, and the premium is exorbitant. Obtaining a new licence costs well over £100,000, which is unaffordable for most small businesses. In some areas of Northern Ireland, it is impossible to get a new licence. The Licensing and Registration of Clubs (Amendment) Act (Northern Ireland) 2021 introduced a new but extremely limited local producer’s licence, but its cost of £10,000 or more outweighed its limited benefits. It was very limited, restricting a brewery to opening twice a week for 12 hours and selling only its own products. Northern Ireland’s 23 small breweries struggle to sell their products in local pubs, as the vast majority are locked into sole-supply contracts with globally owned breweries.”
“I will ask a question of the Minister at the end of my speech and I will be happy for him to get back to me in written form if that makes it easier, because of the particular question that I intend to ask. Granting Northern Ireland’s independent breweries the ability to properly open taprooms, as happens in England, Scotland and Wales, would enable small businesses to reach their potential, meet consumer choice and increase tourism. I believe that is what we should be considering for Northern Ireland, so that is my wish and my request to the Minister. The Licensing (Northern Ireland) Order 1996 limits the number of alcohol licences available. Under the surrender principle, an existing licence must be surrendered before the granting of a new one.”
“I have tried it myself and I also think it features up there, but that is just my opinion. Hon. Members may not be aware that, in Northern Ireland, small independent breweries are severely restricted from offering the choice and variety of local products that consumers demand, because of the liquor licensing laws. That limits Northern Ireland’s economic, hospitality and tourism opportunities and means that 99% of beers sold in Northern Ireland are imported. This year, Northern Ireland lost 20% of its breweries because of the limits. The current review of the licensing system, including the surrender principle, is the opportunity to introduce much-needed reforms.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Dr Murrison, and it was a pleasure to hear the hon. Member for Woking (Mr Forster) set the scene so well. I was intrigued by the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Bobby Dean) referring to the fact that Lib Dems were here. It made me wonder what that means about the Lib Dems—I say that in jest, of course. I am thankful that beer has become more than the mainstays of Harp, Carling and Guinness, which are all wonderful beers and stouts but increasingly being challenged by small independent brewers. There is only one small independent brewer in my constituency, but they are good guys; they have a good company, and I wish to mention them. Grant in my office tells me that Bullhouse East craft beer, which began in Newtownards, is top class and, for any of the big brands, hard to beat.”
“I have always been a supporter of nuclear power. Unfortunately, we do not have access to nuclear power in Northern Ireland, but I know from discussions with the Minister that he is very keen to ensure that modular nuclear power opportunities are available in Northern Ireland. Business that I have spoken to want access to these opportunities, as does the Northern Ireland Assembly. I know that the Minister is always committed to trying to make things better, so has he had an opportunity to talk to the relevant Minister in the Northern Ireland Assembly about ensuring that access to modular nuclear power is available to us in Northern Ireland?”
“I think of him and the fear he is in. If I send the Secretary of State the details of that gentleman and his family, will he ensure that he gets the help we should give him? That is what my constituent wants, what I want as his MP, and what that person wants.”
“I thank the Secretary of State very much for his well-chosen, careful, contrite words, which were said in a tone that the House appreciates. As an MP who has often decried the abandonment of those Afghans who helped to secure safety for our troops, and whose job put them in the firing line, I must agree with the principle of doing the right thing, and being a nation that is seen globally as supporting those who support us. The issue of secrecy to the House is critical; the Secretary of State has outlined that. Does he agree that Governments must always totally protect those who were put in harm’s way, under the principle of doing what it is always right to do? I think of my constituent who served along with our forces in Afghanistan, and whose Afghan friend is in hiding in Pakistan with his wife and three children.”
“I agree with the points that the hon. Gentleman makes about child poverty. In Northern Ireland, child poverty has grown by between 35% and 40% in total, so many people in Northern Ireland have experienced child poverty in the last five years who would not have experienced it for a long time before that. The Government have indicated that having a strategy may work. Does he feel, as I do, that we need a strategy not just for Westminster, but for the whole United Kingdom, so that we can collectively address this issue?”
“I commend the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd—I hope that is somewhere near the Welsh, but with an Ulster Scots accent—for bringing forward this debate and I congratulate her on it. I spoke to her beforehand just to ascertain the direction of travel. Does she agree that magistrates must know their communities and the characteristics of where they come from, so that they can best serve justice for the victims? In other words, the better they know where they come from, the better they know the people they serve, and then they can do their job.”
“On a point of order, Mr Mundell. Before the debate, I spoke to you, the Speaker’s Office and the shadow Minister. Many of us here would love to participate in the other debate in the main Chamber, but we cannot because we cannot be in two debates at one time—some people have tried that; I have tried in the past, and it does not work. If possible, we would like for MPs from Northern Ireland to be able to make at least an intervention, and maybe ask a question in the other debate. I seek some guidance from you, Mr Mundell—I hate to put you on the spot, and I apologise for doing so—because there are not just MPs from Northern Ireland here, but others who served, who probably wish to do the same.”
“There can be no true justice from them when these men were acting under orders, and we cannot send this message to serving personnel today.”
“Were we to be discussing cases in which soldiers or personnel went off on their own cognisance and carried out an attack, by all means hold them accountable and let them mount their defence, but that is not what we are questioning here. Today, we are asking 80-year-old men how they carried out the order 50 years ago, what they saw when they carried it out and why they did that. This is simply not fair or just. The Army reviewed decisions taken at the time and brought people to justice for miscarriages of justice. The Government cannot come into a civil court 50 years later and retraumatise these men for doing what their officers required of them when there is no case to answer. That is why I believe these vexatious claims must stop.”
“First, the high state of alert in a situation that is highly charged and in which men know that their life is on the line at any second means that a split-second decision that they took 40 or 50 years ago may be difficult for them to remember and justify now. To expect these men to come to court to give an account on the detail of cases is simply untenable, especially as they were previously investigated and told that there was no case to answer, so you can understand, Ms Lewell, why we ask the question, “Why do it again?” Secondly, there is the harm from men trying to put themselves back in these positions. In terms of their mental stability, it is incredibly difficult and, indeed, can be damaging. To ask them to go back there is simply traumatising those who did nothing but follow an order.”
“I was just saying this to one of the girls in the office last week. In March 1971, three off-duty Scottish soldiers were lured from a bar by an IRA operative and murdered along the road on the way to a party. They were not on duty; they were off duty, but the IRA saw them as targets. When our British Army personnel were on duty, they were checking cars at road checkpoints to find razors hidden in car seats with the express purpose of injuring them. They were ambushed on the roads, shot at and killed or maimed. The circumstances in which they operated were not those of war as it had been known—it was guerrilla warfare, and these men were on constant high alert. Indeed, their mental health continues to pay the price today for that high state of alert. The reason why I highlight that is twofold.”
“The blood of those who were murdered at chip shops, burned alive with a napalm-like substance when out for a meal in a restaurant or mowed down with machine guns when attending their church—the blood of these innocent victims cries out against all attempts to change that appearance from pure evil to justifiable. These atrocities and crimes can never, ever be justified. There is no Hollywood lens that could make the Omagh bombing—there will be a debate about that in the main Chamber shortly—seem like it was in pursuit of a noble cause. It was not, and it never could have been. The reason why these soldiers were stationed in Northern Ireland was to deal with the very real and lethal threat from paramilitaries of all beliefs—loyalist and republican alike. It was under that threat that the soldiers operated.”
“Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk about the yellow card. As 18, 19 or 20-year-olds, we read out our yellow card every night before we left. Not one of the soldiers I served alongside, or any I knew, ever disregarded that yellow card. The role that a soldier had to play was quite clear. We all know why these cases exist. To say that they are seeking justice does not paint the whole picture. The cases are pressed by republicans in an attempt to whitewash the history into a Hollywood version that paints them as freedom fighters oppressed by an evil regime. Well, they were not.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Lewell. I commend the hon. Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (John Lamont) for setting the scene on behalf of the Petitions Committee. We have all spoken about this subject repeatedly, but let me be very clear that I will not tire of speaking up for our veterans about these entirely vexatious prosecutions. I declare an interest as somebody who served in the Ulster Defence Regiment for three years as a part-time soldier in an anti-terrorism role, and served for 11 and a half years as a member of the Royal Artillery—that was obviously a cold war role. The fact was that to be a soldier in Northern Ireland, whether in the Ulster Defence Regiment or any other regiment, was to be under threat. I want to take up the comment of the hon.”
“This was a fight against a faceless, brutal, murderous enemy that haunts service personnel to this day.”
“Yes, that was pithy—well done. My right hon. Friend is absolutely right: it is the rewriting of history and an injustice done to soldiers who served. There are many in this room who served; indeed, the Minister for Veterans and People is an honourable and gallant Member. I will conclude with these words, because I am conscious that others want to speak and I am certainly not going to take any more than my five minutes. These men served in circumstances that I can well remember, because I served alongside them. Many in this Chamber may not be able to imagine what that all meant. They laid it on the line to protect us, and we have, I believe, a duty to protect them from the reimaging that Sinn Féin-IRA seek to carry out to justify their evil events. We can never believe that this was a fight for freedom.”
“I thank the Secretary of State for her answers. The issues with the leasehold system, and the need for legal protection for everyone, have been set out in debates in Westminster Hall and this Chamber, and I very much welcome the Government’s commitment to changes. The leasehold system here is slightly different from that in Northern Ireland, but the legal protections need to be the same. I have a very simple question for the Secretary of State: will she have discussions with the relevant Minister in Northern Ireland to ensure that what happens here can happen for us in Northern Ireland, and that we will be given the same protection?”
“I was born in Omagh a long, long time ago—70 years ago, to be precise. I do not remember very much about it, but Omagh has always been dear to my heart. I remember well the event as it took place, the people that day and the tears we all shed for the people of Omagh, and we seek justice. Families have suffered for too long and I support their quest for justice. Does the hon. Member agree that justice should be at the forefront of the minds of all right hon. and hon. Members during this process?”
“To be honest, I think many of us have sympathy for the hon. Lady’s new clause, but I am concerned about the security of this country, for which the Minister and the Government have responsibility. If someone contravenes that in any way or leads to any insecurity for the rest of the citizens, should they forfeit their right to citizenship?”
“I commend the hon. Lady for securing the debate; I spoke to her beforehand. I am reminded of the old wee rhyme that my mother used to say to me: a stitch in time saves nine. Does the hon. Lady agree that a pothole repaired in time can save lives? The Government must be more proactive in ensuring that we deal with the small issues and save money before they become costly, large issues.”
“I declare an interest as someone who has known the devastation of loss due to terrorism. I represent Northern Ireland—that is no secret; the accent gives it away, although to be fair to the hon. Gentleman who spoke before me, his accent would be perhaps similar through his family connections. The reason I am making this speech here is the murder of my cousin Kenneth Smyth on 10 December 1971. He was a sergeant—”
“It is a real pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mrs Harris, and I say a special thank you to the hon. Member for Rossendale and Darwen (Andy MacNae) for bringing this motion forward. He and I talked beforehand, and it is very clear what he wants to achieve—indeed, it is the same reason why we are all here; we want to achieve it as well. As others have said, we have commemorated this week the anniversary of the London bombings. What a timely debate this is. The hon. Member for Beckenham and Penge (Liam Conlon) told the story of what happened to his constituent and his constituent’s friend. Although I was not in London at that time, I remember vividly the killings, the murders, and the victims and the destruction that took place. It is a timely debate to remember those who suffer the impact long after the headlines change.”
“I commend my cousin Shelley for all that she does, and all the others in Fermanagh and South Tyrone, and across the whole of Northern Ireland for what they do.”
“I thank the hon. Member for that. Yes—it is very real for us. I think of my cousin, 54 years ago, and even today, 54 years later, it is still as real for my family and myself. It is something that I do not think I will ever forget. Those here in the Public Gallery today will know the same agony, pain and suffering that we have. We suffer every day because of it. My pain is no more than anybody else’s—definitely not. I think of those who carry on the fight; I think of my cousin, Shelley, who will always push for justice for the murder of her brother. They say that time heals all things, but I believe that the heart retains a special memory, and that that will never dim for so many people.”
“To the true victims of IRA terrorism, of loyalist terrorism and of extremist terrorism across this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, support must always be given, and by extension to their families, and it must be withheld from the perpetrators. I believe in my heart that the Government must be crystal clear about that.”
“He has served in uniform—he served in Northern Ireland—so he understands the issues and comes with the knowledge and experience that I believe is necessary for his role, both in this debate and in the future. The legislation will ensure that only victims, and never victim makers, are eligible to receive state support or help. I respectfully ask the Minister: when will it come to the House, and what measures will be put in place to ensure the Attorney General’s past support of Gerry Adams, as his legal representative, will not be a factor in any role that the Attorney General’s Office plays in the legislation?”
“Whereas a libel case in the Republic of Ireland may seek to whitewash history—as it often does, unfortunately —I say unequivocally in this House today, using a phrase that has been said a thousand times to me, and which others will know: the dogs in the street know their own, and they know what Gerry Adams did. To ever conceive that he be due a form of compensation spits in the face of every victim of terrorism and indeed spits in the face of justice. Today, we stand strong beside the victims of terrorism across this United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I respect the Minister, as I think we all do. He has lived a life; he is an honourable gentleman.”