Jim Shannon
MP for Strangford · Democratic Unionist Party · United Kingdom
“I thank the Minister for those answers. This has happened three times in three years. Normally, on the third strike, you are out. Instead, the chief executive gets an £871,000 bonus. For people in Northern Ireland, a flight to Great Britain is a basic utility. When NATS crashed, my constituents were entirely cut off.”
“When it comes to lobbying, Northern Ireland has a peculiar circumstance where one party can be involved in politics in Northern Ireland and at the same time be involved in politics in the Republic of Ireland. When it comes to the accountability that the hon.”
“Member for North East Fife referred to this—everybody knew every officer in the area where they lived. Different times mean different pressures and different needs, but I have always supported community policing in all my years as an elected representative, throughout my time on the council and in the Northern Ireland Assembly before comi…”
“I will say this to the Minister: although policing is a devolved matter for us back home, I want to make some comments, if I may, about the focus of the police, which means they sometimes do what is unnecessary. I will give an example.”
“The hon. Gentleman is a Leicester City supporter, as I am; we do not have to seek our sorrows at this moment in time, but that is by the way. More importantly, his comments underline the issues for local independent pharmacy owners. As the hon.”
“That is the reality for these people, who have consciences, feel compassion and want to care for their patients and customers. The impact is clear, because almost 90% of pharmacies in Northern Ireland were unable to pay their wholesaler bill in January. Think about what that means for a second: that is real pressure.”
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“I understand the Liberal Democrats will possibly table an amendment to the Planning and Infrastructure Bill on that and it would be great if Government accepted it. That would be the easy way of doing it. I am sure when they listen hard to what others say, they will understand that is the way forward. I have heard the comments made by the hon. Member for Horsham on the issues surrounding local house prices and the comparison to the cost of living and people’s wages. In my constituency of Strangford, and specifically within the Ards and the North Down borough, new house builds are more expensive than current housing stock, causing higher targets to be set and ultimately limiting affordability for people to buy. The University of Ulster has stated that the average house price in Ards, Strangford and North Down as of 2022 was £221,000.”
“It is good that we understand the importance of these issues. The Minister is a regular visitor to Northern Ireland and as he engages with relevant Ministers there, as he always does, he will be asking these questions and talking about the matter. I look forward to his response. The hon. Member for Horsham set the scene well. I am flabbergasted to hear from the hon. Member for West Dorset (Edward Morello) that the water companies do not play a role in planning. In Northern Ireland, there cannot be any planning application without contacting Northern Ireland Water. It is important to have the input of a major facility that looks after sewerage and storm water and that will set out the systems for any development.”
“I commend the hon. Gentleman for securing this debate. He is right to underline the importance of the defence sector right across this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Something that is also important and that he has rightly spoken about is the need for apprentices. The Government have given a contract to Thales in Northern Ireland, and through that there will be 200 new jobs and 20 new apprentices. Does he agree that when it comes to defence contracts right across this great United Kingdom, they need to involve apprentices, to build for the future and to ensure that we have those skills?”
“I commend the hon. Gentleman for securing this debate. He is absolutely right. One of the problems—if I can put forward the reasoning behind what he is referring to—is the old system of building houses, not just in Norfolk, but right across this whole United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Having the storm drain and the sewage within the one system is the way they did it 40 or 50 years ago, in the houses we grew up in. That creates a problem for the houses built around that time. Every time there is heavy rain—rain no longer comes lightly, but comes in hurricane-like storms—it brings a deluge of water. The system is not able to cope with that, so does he have a solution for moving forward? This is about not just new developments, but the old developments and the old houses. What was okay years ago is not okay today.”
“In the past, the Minister has spoken very positively about education. What assessment has been made of the potential progress that could be made in reducing youth radicalisation by allocating aid to education programmes, as we have witnessed over the years a number of young people being brainwashed online by extremist groups?”
“Thank you, Sir Roy, and God bless all the family at this time.”
“Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. On behalf of the Democratic Unionist party, I want to convey to the family of Sir Roy Stone our deepest condolences at this time of tragedy and grief. To serve under a number of Prime Ministers and Chief Whips is no easy task, but he was always fair and impartial. He contributed loyally and with great wisdom. I would not like to say anything against any of the Chief Whips in my party, but I have probably challenged them all, and to be perfectly honest, I probably still do. Sir Roy’s advice was much sought after and liberally given. He set a standard for others to follow, and to admire from a distance. It is always good to cite the Bible at these times; he has run the race, he has fought the good fight and there are many crowns laid up for him in heaven.”
“I thank the Minister for his positive answers to the questions that have been posed from all parts of the Chamber today. While it is encouraging to see 17 workplace pension providers investing 10% in private assets, it is disappointing that Scottish Widows, for example, is refusing to sign up. What further can be done to ensure that investment will be focused not simply on London firms, as others have referred to, but throughout the United Kingdom, including the tremendous potential in Northern Ireland?”
“The rules and regulations that apply to employment, education or training in the Makerfield constituency should apply across this great United Kingdom. Many of those in the construction sector that the Minister referred to, whether they are builders, carpenters, plumbers, plasterers or electricians, come from my constituency of Strangford across to London, so it is important that people in my constituency and across Northern Ireland get the same opportunities through the colleges. Will the Minister ensure that discussions take place with Northern Ireland so that my constituency can continue to supply the people who build houses here in London?”
“I thank the Minister very much for his answers—he always comes to the Chamber with the answers we hope for. It was shocking to read of the violent attack on prison staff by the Southport killer, which highlights the need for greater supervision of, and security measures for, prisoners. What steps will the Government take to tighten the prison privileges system? Take away their parole, for example. Take away all their privileges. If that does not work, put them in solitary confinement. Those evil killers have forfeited any right to privileges in this world. I think it is time that the Government took steps in the right direction by ensuring that high-risk offenders do not have access to freedoms that could be used to seriously harm those who risk their lives working in our prisons.”
“You have set me a challenge, Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank the hon. and learned Member for North Antrim (Jim Allister) for securing this urgent question. It is so important to talk about this issue in this place. It has caused considerable problems for my Strangford constituents. In particular, I mention three distilleries—Echlinville, Rademon and the Hinch—but many other businesses are affected, too. How does the Minister plan to address the tariff differentials that may arise for Northern Ireland following the UK-US trade deal? It may see any EU retaliatory tariffs on US goods being applied to US goods entering Northern Ireland, potentially creating an Irish sea border for US goods.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. I have asked questions in this Chamber—to be fair to the Minister, she has answered in a positive fashion—on border security in Northern Ireland; people can come from the Republic of Ireland into Northern Ireland and can then cross into the UK. It is so important that the border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland is closed. What in-depth discussions have taken place between the Garda Síochána, the Police Service of Northern Ireland and the security forces to ensure that that avenue of illegal immigration is closed for good?”
“The Minister will know that I chair the all-party parliamentary group for international freedom of religion or belief. An important thing for us is those of a Christian faith and other faiths who come here. The Government have been incredibly generous in giving them the opportunity of asylum and positions here; schemes of both the previous Government and this Government are to be commended, and I thank them. Can the Minister today assure this House, the people I represent here in this United Kingdom and those from overseas that there will still be the opportunity for those who are persecuted because of their faith to come here and claim asylum?”
“I commend the hon. Gentleman for securing this debate on a subject that is very important to many. Between 2010 and 2015, more than 250 British nationals were murdered abroad, in Pakistan, Tunisia, France and the United States, which he mentioned. We often see horror stories online—cases in which an individual has been found but not yet identified. Does he agree that, in the case of British nationals, there is more that the Foreign Office could do to ensure that all efforts are made to alert the family before any news is released to the media? Sometimes the media need to be sensitive.”
“The point I made to the hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mr Reynolds) was that families sometimes find out about these cases on social media or somewhere else. I would have thought that whenever the police in whatever country become aware that someone was a British citizen, they would immediately contact the embassy and make it aware of what had happened so that it could be the conduit. Could that be done? We have had a similar case in Northern Ireland, although I will not go into any details because it is an ongoing case. There is an important role for the consulate and the British embassy to play.”
“The Government must work more closely with social housing associations and landlords to ensure that people can afford to heat their homes adequately, and are not forced to decide between eating a meal or putting the heating on. This is a UK-wide issue that must be given the attention it deserves and tackled alongside the devolved Administrations —back home, the Department for Communities. More must be done to support pensioners who are struggling after the loss of their winter fuel payment, and to help tenants, many of whom are families in social housing, whose housing is not habitable or up to scratch. It is time for change. I think that the Minister is committed to it. I look forward to hearing what he has to say.”
“It would be a positive step forward. I hope that the final decision will be that winter fuel payments will be reinstated. Elderly people who suffer with health issues like the ones I mentioned are much more likely to become ill as a result of a cold home. I cannot stress enough how important it is that the Government commit to reversing this brash and wrong decision. NEA has estimated that, across the United Kingdom, on average more than 10,000 people die each year due to living in a cold home. It is important to put the problem into figures, because, unfortunately, such a death toll gives us a better idea of what is happening. In England and Wales, excess winter deaths rose by nearly 20% last winter. That is another indication of where we are going. Those figures are shocking.”
“I want to be respectful to Government, as I always try to be, but 10 million pensioners across the United Kingdom have lost their winter fuel payment, and it is projected that those cuts will push an additional 50,000 pensioners into relative poverty each year from 2024 to 2029. In some years, as many as 100,000 people will be affected. Often, those with chronic illnesses or disabilities face higher energy bills and so are disproportionately affected by the cuts, which ultimately will plunge more people into poverty this winter and make it harder for them to heat their homes. That means more cold homes, more damp and more mould, which the Government will single-handedly allow by removing this payment. There has been some indication in the past few days that the Labour Government are reconsidering this policy. I hope that they are.”
“A little girl of the age of four slept in one of those rooms, and her mother was increasingly concerned about the health issues that can come with cold and damp. That is often forgotten. We tend to focus on the physicality —how it looks and the smell that may come from mould. It is no secret that damp and mould can lead to respiratory issues and exacerbate the symptoms of asthma and cardiovascular disease. I am also chair of the APPG for respiratory health, and we have worked closely on those issues. With a double chair hat on, as chair of both the healthy homes and buildings APPG and the APPG for respiratory health, those issues have combined to put the focus on these things today.”
“According to National Energy Action, approximately 40% of households in Northern Ireland are classified as being in fuel poverty, meaning that they spend more than 10% of their income on energy costs. That, I think, highlights the issue for many, especially at a time when money is tight and people are not able to stretch it as far as they would like. In addition, social housing stock in Northern Ireland is notably energy inefficient. Many homes lack adequate insulation, leading to higher housing costs and more vulnerability to cold and damp conditions. A little while back, a constituent who was residing in a Housing Executive property that had excessive damp and mould in both bedrooms came into my office.”
“Cold and damp are among the biggest problems when it comes to housing in my constituency. As chair of the healthy homes and buildings all-party parliamentary group, I am fully aware of the problems of cold and damp in domestic homes and commercial buildings. I hear about it from my constituents regularly. Some 60% of the housing cases my staff deal with are transfers, and 40% of those are about damp and mould. Some of the pictures that they have seen are extraordinary, so it is good to be here to discuss the issue and see what we can do. I am very pleased to see the Minister in his place. He responds to the questions we ask with honesty and clarity. We look forward to the answers that we will get today.”
“It is real pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Western. Like the hon. Member for Vauxhall and Camberwell Green (Florence Eshalomi), I apologise for being approximately 55 seconds late, but we were rushing. Thank you for helping us and for letting us take part in the debate. I thank the hon. Member for Leeds Central and Headingley (Alex Sobel) for leading today’s debate on this important issue. He set the scene admirably. All the detail that he gave helps all of us to focus on what we need to do. This is one of those issues that arise in all parts of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. We all hear of these issues from our constituents. The hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) referred to her constituents and the information she gets from them; we all can say the same.”
“The Minister is always assiduous and gives good answers. He has put forward many good ideas to ensure that the issue of cold, damp and mouldy homes is addressed in the United Kingdom, especially in England. The hon. Member for Brecon, Radnor and Cwm Tawe (David Chadwick) and I would be keen to ensure that the Minister shares those ideas with the Governments in Northern Ireland and Wales.”
“My farmers in Northern Ireland and Strangford, and farmers across this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, produce some of the best products. Prices are rising, sometimes due to things we cannot prevent, but farmers need better prices from the supermarkets. What is being done to ensure that our farmers, who produce a quality product, get the right prices for the effort they put in?”
“One thing that concerns me in Northern Ireland is criminal gangs and former paramilitary gangs being involved in all sorts of crime, now including economic crime. They see business as a way of creating more wealth for their criminal activities. What is being done to take on these criminal gangs, whose tentacles reach right across the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and, indeed, further afield, which we also have to address? Criminal gangs have to be taken on and have to be taken out of operation and put in jail. Do the Al Capone on them—put them in jail for economic crime.”
“In conclusion, ever conscious of time, I understand that money is not unlimited and that the Government must make effective use of funding, but when I stood at the funeral service and watched the heartbreak of my friend, I thought that there is nothing more important than stopping that heartbreak in Northern Ireland and across this great United Kingdom. Research is the key and we must find the promising research as a matter of urgency. I hope that the debate today will be a step in the right direction.”
“There is a good point to make here: how many young people would not think to do this or would say, “I can’t afford to do that”? How much awareness is there that a headache is not always down to dehydration? How many people understand that an eye test is an essential part of our healthcare? Perhaps the Minister would consider making eye tests free at source for those who work, as well as those on benefits, to increase the number of people having an eye test who need one but just do not think about it.”
“Headaches, nausea, vomiting, blurred vision or weakness of the limbs can be due to other pressure effects within the brain. A tumour can also cause seizures due to infiltrative effects on the brain substance. There are many symptoms, including deafness, visual disturbance, and problems with the sense of smell. I want to give a wee example. My parliamentary aide had been suffering from a 10-day headache. She is the one who writes all these speeches for me every week—a very busy lady. She booked an eye test after she did some research and asked for a further intensive scan, which she paid for herself. Thankfully in a way, it turned out that her eyes had deteriorated but that the headaches were not due to anything that she had feared.”
“Queen’s University Belfast is making giant strides in research and repurposing existing drugs to ascertain if they can make a difference to these dreadful statistics. While it is thankful for the funding given by Brainwaves NI and other charities, the Government need to assist those charities and other groups by making funding available to the highly qualified scientists who could find a cure and have a path to take, but have been precluded from doing so due to the lack of money. The statistics are startling: more children and adults under 40 die of a brain tumour than of any other cancer, yet only 1% of national research spending goes on brain tumour research. More research and more spend could make a great difference; this must be rectified. The difficulty is that no symptoms are unique to brain tumours.”
“In the UK, 16,000 people are diagnosed with a brain tumour each year, and incidence rates of brain tumours are significantly higher in Northern Ireland and Wales than in other UK countries. Brain tumour cases are projected to rise in Northern Ireland by some 36% by 2035, which is really worrying. The Minister always endeavours to give us the answers we all seek, and I ask her to work alongside the Department of Health in Northern Ireland to see how all of us in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland can work together to take on glioblastoma cancer and tumours. Despite treatments such as surgery, radiotherapy and chemotherapy, some patients find themselves resistant to therapy and they relapse and unfortunately may face death after some 15 months.”
“She gave me an image of a red squirrel in the nearby Mount Stewart estate, run by the National Trust, and that will always have pride of place in my office. In Northern Ireland, 2,043 brain tumour cases were diagnosed between 2017 and 2021—some 409 cases per year. At the end of 2021, there were almost 5,500 people living with a brain tumour, with the diagnoses occurring between 1997 and 2021. During that period, 53.2% of brain tumour cases were among women—as in the case that I know of and in that raised by the hon. Member for Mitcham and Morden. If I was to ask for one thing out of this debate today, it would be for extra money to be made available for research and to find the cures, because that is really what we want. Brain tumours are the biggest cancer killer of children and adults under 40.”
“I thank the hon. Member for Mitcham and Morden (Dame Siobhain McDonagh) for sharing her story and for all her endeavours in this House on behalf of her sister and others. I hope she will forgive me for saying that she has a big heart, and she expresses that in this Chamber often. The right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) said he was afraid; I cannot believe he would be afraid of anybody, but I am sure she was not too formidable no matter what the case may be. For any family to receive the news of a brain tumour is instantly worrying, and we think of all who have lost their lives to this dreadful illness. Just recently we mourned with a dear friend of mine whose daughter went to hospital with a suspected stroke and within two months had gone to eternity with a glioblastoma brain tumour.”
“On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am sorry to ask this, but we need to understand what is happening about the trade negotiations and the statement that may be coming. I ask because three of us here—the hon. and learned Member for North Antrim (Jim Allister), the hon. Member for Dundee Central (Chris Law) and I—have planes to catch. I understand that others in the Chamber have made travel arrangements as well. If the statement is not happening, let us go.”
“Research and development is on the mainland, yes, but it is also in Northern Ireland. The Minister knows that already and, I suspect, is already on it.”
“I commend the hon. Lady for securing the debate. I did some research on the industry back home in Northern Ireland, and I am sorry that I cannot make a speech because I have sponsored an event at 10 am, and it cannot happen if I am not there. We have a vibrant automotive sector in Northern Ireland that provides some 11% of employment and 13% of gross value added. That is down not just to Wrightbus, which has great sales across the United Kingdom and further afield, but to the rest of the automotive industry in Northern Ireland. Does the hon. Lady agree that the Government need to step up in supporting businesses and helping research and development? We have the skills, but we need the support, and today’s debate is a significant step forward for the industry across this great United Kingdom.”
“I commend the hon. Lady. All the time that I have known her and the leader of her party here, the right hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Liz Saville Roberts), their commitment to nuclear has never been in doubt. Does the hon. Lady agree that it is essential that we safely implement a new nuclear power strategy that will ensure we have capability and capacity, as well as energy resilience—a topic that is foremost in our minds after the devastating effects of the power cuts in Europe? Does she also agree that it is possible to achieve net zero hand in hand with nuclear options?”
“I commend the right hon. Lady for securing this debate. Westminster Hall is full today, so this is clearly a massive issue. PIP is effectively a lifeline to help to maintain people’s wellness and independence, and in many cases people’s employment, so more needs to be done. Furthermore, if a claimant no longer qualifies for the daily living component, any carer will also lose their direct access to carer’s allowance, which would be a loss of £10,000 on top of the other money that is lost. This situation is a minefield for those who are disabled and depend on PIP to continue having some quality of life. Does the right hon. Lady agree that today the Minister must give us many, many answers and change the policy?”
“That change could result in some existing claimants no longer meeting the eligibility requirement, which could impact them severely month to month. Parkinson’s UK told me that the degenerative condition incurs average extra costs of more than £7,500 a year, so PIP is a crucial payment for people with Parkinson’s. I do not have much more time, but more study is clearly needed to assess how the changes will truly impact people. I speak on behalf of the 200,000 people across Northern Ireland who the changes will ultimately impact. I look to the Minister for greater clarity that action will be taken only when backed by evidence. The Minister is a great friend of us all, but today we need answers.”
“I commend the right hon. Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott) for her courage, and I commend the courage of all hon. Members who have made a clear commitment today. I thank them for that, and I mean that quite honestly. I have a wonderful lady in my office as our benefits adviser, and she is fantastic at talking people through the PIP and benefits process, and supporting them with filling in their forms, as it can be a very stressful process. The points system can already be challenging, often leading to mandatory reconsiderations and appeals, so I can easily understand why many people are worried about the changes. One of the criteria changes that Labour will introduce is a requirement for claimants to score four points on at least one of the 10 activities to qualify for the daily living component.”
“I spoke to the hon. Gentleman before, so he knows what is coming. Is it not ironic that at a time when the Government want to increase defence spending—most MPs support that, and I am one of them—the trustees of the Members’ pension fund have decided that there is to be no investment of MPs’ pension contributions in the defence industry? Is it not time for the pension trustees to change their attitude immediately? What a disgrace. I hardly believe it.”
“I always say that we are better together, and that is because we can share ideas and learn from each other. With that in mind, I ask the Minister to do that and let me know how he gets on with those conversations.”
“Additionally, there is no issue if anyone wants to stay after school for sports or music in Newtownards, but if children live in the countryside, some will get a school bus at 7.15 in the morning and then cannot get one until 5.30 in the afternoon to get back home. That underlines the importance of schooling within the community. I know that the Minister will respond very positively to the issues he has responsibility for. He is always very helpful, and we always share ideas, so I ask him to swap ideas with the Education Minister in Northern Ireland to look at improvement and what we can do to benefit us all. I am always proud to be the Member of Parliament for Strangford in this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.”
“Member for Hertford and Stortford set out. According to the education strategy for 2022 to 2027, some 230 of the 800 primary schools in Northern Ireland have fewer than the recommended number of pupils. One primary school in my area has capacity for 95 pupils, but it could easily house perhaps another 10. We need to ensure that small schools—small by their nature—can survive, because they are vital to rural infrastructure. In Northern Ireland, there is a further drive for integrated schools. My two eldest granddaughters attend such a school, and I was heartened that it was put in the peninsula. However, as a governor on the board of Glastry high school, I am also cognisant of the difference in funding that exists, when Glastry has long needed a building project and yet Strangford integrated college is in its new campus building already.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Edward. I congratulate the hon. Member for Hertford and Stortford (Josh Dean) on setting the scene. I want to give, as I always do, a perspective from Northern Ireland—I know that is not the Minister’s responsibility, but I think it adds to the flavour of the debate. In Northern Ireland, barriers to education include financial pressures, lack of funding, declining pupil numbers and, as is so often the case, special educational needs. This is similar in other areas, but rural schools tend to be the smaller schools with the big heart—those who try extra hard to make things better. I can understand why education authorities and trusts are tempted to look at numbers as the bottom line, but rural school numbers and rural schools must be looked at differently, as the hon.”
“In my constituency of Strangford, many women have started their own businesses, but there has been a problem in getting access to the finance to make that happen. Venture capital will make that happen. To ensure that ladies and women have the same opportunities as men—just because they are a different sex, does not mean that they are any less able to do the job—will the Minister ensure that venture capital will be available in Northern Ireland, for ladies and women in Strangford and in Northern Ireland?”
“I am quite confident of the Minister’s response, but how can he emphasise the need to give consideration to our film sector, which is an integral part of this United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?”
“Never the final episode—still a wee bit to go yet. I thank the Minister very much for his answers, and for the energy he displays on behalf of the sector. In a question in the Chamber yesterday to the Minister for Trade Policy and Economic Security, I highlighted the £330 million income for the film industry in Northern Ireland since 2018. The importance of USA films to that cannot be overstated; they include epics such as “Blade Runner”, to say nothing of “Game of Thrones” and “Star Wars”. So many films use our highly skilled studios and work, due to the cost-effectiveness of this option. The Trump tariffs will negate much of this benefit.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Like other Members, all my heart is with the innocent lives that have been lost, and my condolences go to all those who grieve today. It is a salient reminder of what the pastor told us at my Baptist church in Newtownards a few weeks ago: there are 67 wars in the world, so this really is a world at war. With news reports this morning that up to five Indian air force planes may have been shot down, the escalation of this situation is clear and incredibly worrying. Does the Minister believe that we can successfully intervene and negotiate peace, and what assessment of nuclear capacity has been carried out to ensure global security?”
“May I commend the hon. Gentleman? In all the time I have known him, he has always been British to the core—there is absolutely no doubt about that. Although I am a supporter of devolution —many matters are devolved in Northern Ireland— I understand the complexity. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that devolution is only as useful as the people in place to carry out the job? Effective people are the key. Does he further agree that devolution must have community support and that, regardless of whether it is in Essex or Strangford, the general public must always have the final say?”
“There are ways of doing it better. I know the Minister is a good Minister—he answers questions and always tries to be constructive. There are methods whereby we can move forward, and a bit of common sense and flexibility would help. The Minister is always keen to have discussions with his counterpart in Northern Ireland, so will he tell us what is happening in relation to that? Regulations sometimes differ between Great Britain and Northern Ireland, so I ask him to tell us what has been done in those talks to work together better.”