Jim Shannon
MP for Strangford · Democratic Unionist Party · United Kingdom
“I thank the Minister for those answers. This has happened three times in three years. Normally, on the third strike, you are out. Instead, the chief executive gets an £871,000 bonus. For people in Northern Ireland, a flight to Great Britain is a basic utility. When NATS crashed, my constituents were entirely cut off.”
“When it comes to lobbying, Northern Ireland has a peculiar circumstance where one party can be involved in politics in Northern Ireland and at the same time be involved in politics in the Republic of Ireland. When it comes to the accountability that the hon.”
“Member for North East Fife referred to this—everybody knew every officer in the area where they lived. Different times mean different pressures and different needs, but I have always supported community policing in all my years as an elected representative, throughout my time on the council and in the Northern Ireland Assembly before comi…”
“I will say this to the Minister: although policing is a devolved matter for us back home, I want to make some comments, if I may, about the focus of the police, which means they sometimes do what is unnecessary. I will give an example.”
“The hon. Gentleman is a Leicester City supporter, as I am; we do not have to seek our sorrows at this moment in time, but that is by the way. More importantly, his comments underline the issues for local independent pharmacy owners. As the hon.”
“That is the reality for these people, who have consciences, feel compassion and want to care for their patients and customers. The impact is clear, because almost 90% of pharmacies in Northern Ireland were unable to pay their wholesaler bill in January. Think about what that means for a second: that is real pressure.”
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“My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Those are, by and large, the factors that will indicate where someone goes in adult life and further afield. It is important to do that at an early stage, whether at school or in young adulthood. Hormones are chemical messengers, and high levels of oestrogen and insulin can make cells divide more often. That increases the chance that cancer will develop. Alcohol can make it easier for cells in the mouth and throat to absorb harmful chemicals that cause damage. There are signs that alcohol can exacerbate the chances of different types of cancer such as breast cancer and bowel cancer—two of the most common types—and mouth cancer.”
“I have to say—I am not being disrespectful—that I find the Minister is all here, and I wish to see more engagement with Northern Ireland Ministers from him. Children need to be equipped for an AI world, but also for the real world. Face-to-face interaction and the need to think outside the scope of a question is simply non-negotiable, and I am pretty sure that the Minister will agree with me on that.”
“Many will share concerns similar to mine. We should be proud of the fact that we are able to progress digitally but also safely. The Minister is a good man, and he understands this issue much better than me, but I hope he can understand my concerns about safeguards, protections and the ability for the right information to feed into the process. I seek that assurance from him, especially in relation to educational settings across the United Kingdom. We are doing some things on AI in education in Northern Ireland through Paul Givan. I know that the Minister talks to Paul Givan on a regular basis, but I think it is important in any debate on any subject that the interaction between the four regions is constructive and positive.”
“We need to make sure that does not happen and that if children need personal support from a teacher, they are still able to get it. Although AI will undoubtedly take steps forward, the old way of social interaction and being taught by teachers, and classroom assistants for those with special needs, must also be there. We had a discussion with some American students recently about the use of AI. It was clear that, although AI can prepare a great briefing, it does not give one the knowledge found in reading and in finding pertinent reports. The hard graft of investigation and studying that we do for our speeches is an example. Although AI could give me a speech for this Chamber, it could not give me the secondary knowledge that I have gained in preparing for the debate. AI has a role, but it can never be a stand-alone role.”
“Again, the potential benefits are there. Although the prospects of benefiting children with this sound wonderful, and while Northern Ireland very much seems to be taking a giant step in this transition, there are undoubtedly concerns that teachers, parents and, indeed, pupils may have. For example, staff have raised concerns about accessibility for them personally in their job. For teachers from other generations, such as my own, AI is a minefield. I suppose what I am really saying is that we need to be taking small steps, maybe not giant steps, to make sure that the way forward is measured carefully, in the way that I would like it to be. In addition, I am sure parents want reassurance that their children are being taught properly and that a computer program is not their only source of learning.”
“The study indicated that teachers themselves reported time management benefits, especially in admin and planning, but they also referred to a strong need for professional and thorough training. In a way, it was perhaps very much a first experience—or maybe not for them all, in all honesty. They outlined that this is something that needs to be done very thoroughly, with great protections and safeguards. My colleague the Minister of Education in Northern Ireland, Paul Givan MLA, has announced a literacy programme in which 15,000 pupils will use the Amira Learning AI tutor to assess how AI can support literacy training, especially with disadvantaged children and SEND children. This is an area where we can potentially do better, and AI could be the means to ensure that SEND children and disadvantaged children have that opportunity.”
“We are seeing a progression within our schools, which must be used safely and appropriately, so it is great to be here to discuss this. My key issues are the very issues of protection, safeguards and using AI as we can, with the good potential that the right hon. Member referred to, but, at the same time perhaps, with that wee question mark in my mind. To give the Northern Ireland perspective, as I always do, only last month in Northern Ireland—just four weeks ago, to be precise—Ulster University, in conjunction with the Education Authority, launched a study whereby 100 teachers would trial Microsoft Copilot and Google Gemini in the classroom. So, it is part of life—and I suspect it will become a big part as we move forward.”
“Kevin Brennan, now in the House of Lords, gave a speech, and he never let on till the end of it, when he said, “That speech was written by AI.” Kevin was sitting behind me; I said, “Kevin, what do you mean?”, and he told me what he had done. His speech was a normal speech, except for one thing: it did not have the characteristics of Kevin Brennan. Those of us who know him know that Kevin is quite a witty guy, and his humour and other characteristics were not present in that speech. But it was a speech, done by AI, and he did that, not because he was committing himself to doing all his speeches with AI; he did it because he wanted to show the potential of AI. I always remember that. I said to him afterwards, “Kevin, I’ll always be writing my speeches. I’ll never be doing what you’re doing,” but that is just me talking personally.”
“It is a real pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Jeremy, and I thank the right hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) for leading the debate. I have to confess that I do not understand all about AI, but I do understand the need for it and that the technology is changing. Modern society has a new way of doing things, and I am not against the idea of doing that; it may just not be for me. But I do have children, and grandchildren in particular, who are so technically minded at a very young age. The knowledge they have absolutely overwhelms me, as they look to a society in which they want to play their full part. I was just sitting here thinking about an Adjournment debate in the main Chamber a couple of years ago.”
“With your indulgence, Sir Jeremy, on the question I asked earlier, there is a specific case of the Royal Ulster Constabulary in Northern Ireland. Those who did undercover work carried battery packs on their backs by their kidneys. Of a patrol of 12 policemen who did undercover work, 11 are dead. There is a big case to answer for all that happened in relation to helicopters and service in Northern Ireland.”
“I commend the hon. Lady for introducing this debate. In the short time that she has been in the House, she has made a real name for herself as an assiduous MP, and I wish her well in her efforts. I concur with her comments. For us in Northern Ireland, helicopters were a part of life for getting troops in, and the police in and out. Numerous cases have been settled out of court for aircrew who developed rare cancers after being exposed to helicopter exhaust fumes. Given that certain types of blood cancer can take 10 to 20 years to manifest themselves, does the hon. Lady agree that steps should be taken to encourage those who served in specific aircraft types to seek screening and early intervention to provide better outcomes?”
“If the Minister does not mind my saying so, does he, and the Government, not have an obligation to ensure that all those who suspect they have blood cancer, or are worried that they may have it, are notified so that they are aware? They could then go and check, if they had not already done so. That at least should be done out of courtesy, good manners and respect, and for the protection of those who have served in uniform.”
“In conclusion, support and succour are needed, and that is what we look to the Minister to provide. Regression must not necessarily mean the end of home care. The only way around this is to acknowledge that we have a hard obligation that we must do better in fulfilling.”
“I am involved with an organisation called East Coast Day Opportunities. It is run by two ladies, Janine Patton and Llewellyn McClurg, in Portavogie in the Ards peninsula where I live. They worked for 20 years at the Tor Bank special school and were touched by the fact that after their education ended at the age of 18, vulnerable adults were left at home all day, so they fought for a form of funding. I know it is not the Minister’s responsibility—it is not about that—but they are still fighting to ensure that individual young people receive their funding. There should be no battle. Dedicated support should be available to enable families to keep their child at home with them. I think in particular of that family in Newtownards who are under such pressure.”
“They do not know how to handle their child who has stopped responding to them, and feel alone with the changes. As a society, we have rightly moved away from institutionalising Down’s syndrome children. But, with great respect, I believe we have also abdicated our responsibility towards adults with Down’s syndrome and their families—and that needs to change. In Northern Ireland, the incidence of Down’s syndrome is one in 770 births. That shows the level of support needed for families, and for us back home. My gut feeling is that the numbers are probably the same over here on the mainland. It is not acceptable to throw PIP at a family and walk away. They need respite care for weeks, maybe longer, and day support classes to give their child routine and something to live for.”
“I helped them with the DLA renewal—I understood the issues and tried to put them across as best I could—but I often wonder why someone has to have a DLA or personal independence payment renewal for Down’s syndrome. It is almost inconceivable to me that it happens. But the question is not just about that. What happens while the dad, nearing 80, is battling cancer? What happens if he passes on from this world? Those are questions not simply for that family in Newtownards, but for families throughout the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland who are ageing and wondering what the next step will be for their adult vulnerable child—an adult in so many ways, but also a child in others. The underlying need for that family, and for so many others like theirs, is support.”
“They are in their late 70s and care for their daughter, who has Down’s syndrome. She walks the floors, night and day, in pain. She is in her 50s, and her joints are reacting to the continued walking. Because she is in pain, she has begun to lash out, not because that is her nature—that was never her nature. Her mum and dad have lovingly cared for her for more than 50 years, but their age and the regression mean that they cannot do so in the way that they did. They find it more difficult. This week, I had the awful news that the father has been diagnosed with cancer. The question for the family is this: how will they cope without their dad?”
“The condition may involve a change in eating patterns, such as not wanting to eat, and extreme slowness and low energy, which may or may not be associated with weight loss. These are things that their child never had before, but all of a sudden they do. There can be enhanced insomnia, obsessive-compulsive behaviours, a loss of independence in activities or a need for significant assistance with activities. Problematically, the person may also be aggressive, not because they are aggressive, but because their frustration sometimes leads to that. They may display anger or frustration, with or without behavioural outbursts. Those are all things that happened. When I think about this condition, I think of a family I helped last year with their daughter’s disability living allowance renewal.”
“It is a real pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Jeremy. I thank the hon. Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft) for raising the issue, and for how she participates in all debates—with obvious knowledge, compassion and understanding. We thank her for that. Having this debate enables us to contribute. I am going to give an example of a constituent in Newtownards who went through Down’s syndrome regression and describe the impact that that is having on mum, dad and child. The condition is not always understood—it is only understood by those it directly affects. Down’s syndrome regression disorder is a condition in which individuals with Down’s syndrome experience a sudden loss of previously acquired skills and abilities. I am going to explain that in relation to the couple in Newtownards and their child—she is a young lady now, to be fair.”
“I thank the Minister very much for that answer. I had the opportunity a few months ago to visit the probation office in Newtownards to get an idea of what it does. I was very impressed, first, by the quality of the staff; secondly, by the fact that they are involved in restorative justice issues relating to perpetrators and victims; and, thirdly, by the importance they give to ensuring that young people have opportunities. Can the Minister tell us, from his discussions with the Probation Board for Northern Ireland, what has been done to ensure that what happens here also happens back home and that what happens back home also happens here?”
“I thank the Minister very much for his answers and his statement this afternoon. The recent cyber-attack on M&S and others has shown the devastation that can be wrought by the might of a keyboard. With trusts in Northern Ireland using Encompass and those in England using the integrated care system, what plans do the Government and the Minister have to ensure we have the capacity to be informed and to treat patients should an NHS attack or shutdown take place?”
“I commend the hon. Gentleman; this is a very difficult subject and he is speaking with admirable compassion and understanding. I am sure the family appreciates that. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that while there is a moral duty and a legal obligation to protect children and young people in sport through the creation and promotion of a safe environment that protects them from harm, each sport has different requirements when it comes to fulfilling that obligation? While it is reasonable that a football coach does not need to lay hands on a child in any case, it is also reasonable that a karate instructor must position children, and that must require regulation and Government action. Does the hon. Member agree that there must be a sport-by-sport approach to safeguarding and regulation?”
“I thank the Minister very much for her answer. I know she is very aware of what we are doing in Northern Ireland, where community police officers are an important part of our policing. The relationships they build up over a period of 12 months, 18 months or two years mean that they become a part of the community. We should share good ideas—we have good ideas, as has the Minister. Will she take the opportunity to discuss those ideas with the policing Minister and the Chief Constable in Northern Ireland, because I believe that what we do can help here as well?”
“Although I very much welcome the Government’s decision last week to roll back on proposed welfare changes, it has undoubtedly put considerable pressure on the fiscal rules. I have the greatest concern for the middle class, who get little help to raise their children, pay for their education or feed them other than child benefit, and who will feel the squeeze of a wage increase without an increase in the child benefit threshold. With respect to the Chief Secretary, and always conscious of the importance of looking after people who need help, may I ask how he will ensure that middle-class families are not squeezed further, which can only have the effect of them robbing Peter to pay Paul, thereby landing themselves in debt to both?”
“The Minister will know that I support absolutely the decision to remove the nuclear arsenal from the hands of Iranian terrorists, who have pulled the trigger on various acts of terrorism against this nation and others. However, it is also clear that we are left with a difficult situation in Iran, and the calls for regime change leave vulnerable children even more in need. Is there more we can do to ensure that aid reaches women and children living in oppression and fear in Iran and the axis of evil?”
“What discussions will she have with the Education Minister in the Northern Ireland Assembly to ensure that children in Northern Ireland postcodes have access to these types of hubs? Will additional Barnett consequentials funding be available for rural areas, which are so isolated?”
“I thank the Secretary of State for her statement, which contains really good news. I very much welcome the report she has released, which states: “Postcodes shouldn’t dictate the support available, but one in four families with children under five cannot access local children’s centres or Family Hubs, rising to one in three lower income families.” Today, the Secretary of State has ensured that more children and parents will be able to access opportunity—truly good news. She will be aware that children in Northern Ireland live in greater poverty than those in most postcodes here. I know, personally, that she has a deep interest in Northern Ireland, although she does not have responsibility for it. I appreciate that and I welcome the conversations she has had with me and with other Members of Parliament from Northern Ireland.”
“Another has said that she wants the highest return, full stop, so we must ensure that the Bill enables people to follow their moral obligations as well as get a return on their work. I am concerned that consumers will be tied down and face difficulty in leaving pots, which is something that must be addressed. With that in mind, I welcome this Bill to regulate the pension market, but we must ensure that it does not become a mechanism for Government to control the private pension industry and direct pension pots into Government investment. We must ensure that this Bill simply protects pensioners, and I very much look forward to watching its progress.”
“For the first time we will require pension schemes to prove they are value for money, focusing their mindset on returns over costs and protecting savers from getting stuck in underperforming schemes for years on end.” When we look at the issues, we understand the necessity for the Bill. In his introduction, the Minister referred to 13 million small pension pots floating about in the UK pension system, with £1,000 in each. It seems logical to have a better pension system for people—I think it does, anyway, and maybe we all do. It is essential that the opt-out is iron-clad, and I will give a reason why. One of my office staff members would not be comfortable with her pension paying into any companies that test on animals, for example.”
“Apart from a number of clauses, this legislation does not directly affect Northern Ireland, but it should be noted that accompanying legislation and a number of legislative consent motions—statutory instruments—will come to this Chamber that will change the pension schemes in Northern Ireland. Ultimately, what we discuss here and what happens through this Bill will come to us in Northern Ireland, and the Northern Ireland Assembly will bring provisions in Northern Ireland in line with those here. I have therefore considered carefully the aims of this legislation, and whether I believe it will be effective in achieving those aims. The Minister has said that this Bill will fundamentally “prioritise higher rates of return for pension savers, putting more money into people’s pockets in a host of different ways.”
“The first thing to go was not the kids’ piano lessons or hockey camp—she said that those experiences shaped her children’s memories. The first reduction was scaling back on her pension additions. People might say, “My goodness me! That was not necessary,” but actually it was, if she wanted to preserve that lifestyle for her children. It seems that the tax on savings means that one mum has made the choice to stop supplementing her pension, and to instead sow the money into her children’s lives just now. That is not the aim of the Government or the Minister, but there is only so much that we can tax the middle class before they make cuts that are not in their best interests.”
“I employ six ladies and one young fella. They are in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s. I will not get into trouble by naming the staff in each bracket, but their approach to their pension varies by age bracket, and that is a fact; they see it differently. Listening to their discussion highlighted to me the need to educate people on the importance of paying into their pension, because it is so important that we get this right. That is why the Bill is important: it is an opportunity to advise people. One member of my staff has two children at primary school. She highlighted that she was paying an additional 5% into her pension on the advice of her older colleague, only to find that the tax on her savings this year meant that she actually had less money in her account each month compared with last year.”
“Members who the best pension adviser I ever had was: my mum. When I was 18, she took me down to the pension man in Ballywalter. She said, “You need a pension.” I said, “Mum, I’m only 18. What do I need a pension for?” She said, “You’re getting a pension.” We know how it is: our mum tells to do something, and we just do it, so I got a pension on her advice. I ended up with four pensions over my working life, which were all beneficial. I did not understand the value of them until I came to the stage at which I was going to cash some of them in—I realised the value of them then. Today, we have an opportunity to advise young people of the need for a pension. When it comes to pensions, not everybody has my mum, but everybody has somebody, or an equivalent through Government. Let me give a quick story about my office staff.”
“It is a real pleasure to speak on this Bill. Pensions and the regulation of private pensions are increasingly of national interest. I believe that regulation is needed, so I welcome the Bill. Obviously the small print will become more apparent during its passage, but it is good that we are introducing the Bill. The Government’s intention of ensuring that people have a private pension to supplement their income when they eventually reach retirement is increasingly being realised. By and large, most young people—22 million, I understand—have a pension. The Minister will remember the story I told him about when I was 18. I think I am right in saying that I am the oldest person in this Chamber, so that was not yesterday. The fact is that pension advisers were almost unheard of then. I will tell hon.”
“I commend the hon. Lady for bringing this issue forward; she is right to do so. Does she agree that the progress on SEN action has shown how early intervention with a classroom assistant can make all the difference for many children, and that it is essential that the funding for teaching assistants is retained to ensure that the children in both St Joseph’s primary school in Dagenham and St Finian’s primary school in Newtownards have access to early intervention support and a bright future?”
“The Secretary of State is getting a liking for visiting Northern Ireland. With that in mind, what discussions has she had with her counterparts in Northern Ireland on the importance of further engagement between local theatres and schools across Northern Ireland—the very thing the hon. Member for West Ham and Beckton (James Asser) mentioned—to ensure that young children can access drama in educational settings?”
“I have a church in my constituency that got a six-figure sum, which gives the House an idea of what moneys can be gained through co-operation and partnership.”
“I thank the hon. Lady for her answers. Like other Members, I will ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport whether there will be more money for churches, given that the Minister for Creative Industries, Arts and Tourism says that funding is now available. Churches are more than just buildings for people in rural communities; they are hubs for worship and social engagement. Let us be honest about the £25,000 cap: building materials cost maybe 30% to 50% more than they did a year ago, which means that the grant does not go very far. The heritage lottery fund gives some moneys, but what can be done to work with other organisations to ensure that moneys can come from other groups that may be anxious and willing?”
“What steps has the Foreign Secretary taken to engage with Pakistan authorities and international partners to ensure the protection of religious minorities, uphold freedom of religion or belief, and press for accountability and legal reform?”
“I wish to raise the deeply concerning situation facing the Ahmadiyya Muslim community in Pakistan, where violent attacks have intensified in recent weeks. I met some representatives last night. The destruction of places of worship, the desecration of graves and continued arrests under blasphemy laws reflect a broader pattern of state-enabled persecution and social marginalisation. Will the Leader of the House please request that the Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs updates the House on the Foreign Office’s assessment of the deteriorating human rights situation for Ahmadis in Pakistan?”
“When it comes to finding and training people, will he consider training through schools and colleges for specific roles in care in the community and encourage pupils from a young age to see those as careers that they wish to be part of? I know the Secretary of State will do this, but will he share all that good news with the Minister in the Northern Ireland Assembly?”
“In a week that has been quite difficult, it is a real joy to have some good news in the Chamber in the 10-year plan. I thank the Secretary of State very much for that statement and for the positive fashion in which it was delivered. He says that it will deliver a health plan for all, but I have a quick question in relation to care in the community. Patients are taking up beds in hospitals who cannot get home, because the care in the community is not there. There are those who want to go to their homes, but the staff are not there to look after them. As the Secretary of State will know, I always try to do things in a positive fashion.”
“I thank the hon. Lady and the Select Committee very much. We are quite excited about what we are doing in Northern Ireland, where the Assembly is promoting the film and TV sectors. They are all doing well, with jobs created and the economy boosted. On working together—we are not in competition with each other; we are trying to work in partnership—has she had the opportunity to speak to the relevant Minister, and perhaps the sector, in Northern Ireland to ascertain what they are doing, because I always believe that the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland always works better together and that we can do the same in this sector?”
“There are 77,000 WASPI women in Northern Ireland, 7,000 of them in Strangford. Does the hon. Lady appreciate their palpable anger about how they have been mistreated and about the injustice that they wish to see addressed? On behalf of those 7,000 constituents of mine, I seek the same thing as the hon. Lady and all of us in this Chamber today.”
“I am not saying they should not have done that, but if there is to be fairness in this system, I cannot for the life of me understand how they can do that in one breath, and then in the next apologise to the WASPI women but not do right by them. The silent generation are determined to be silent no longer. I applaud them for going against the grain, as we often say at home, by continuing to complain. I applaud them for continuing to speak, when many of them have been told to be quiet and give it up. I applaud them for continuing to hold Governments—this one and the last one—to account. I applaud them for standing beside the weary and the worn, and for demanding compensation for all affected. Apologising is not enough. As the hon. Member for Aberdeenshire North and Moray East (Seamus Logan) said, it is not about words any more.”
“A number of these women—I call them the silent generation—still face significant outstanding debts and loans that they will struggle to pay off for the rest of their lives due to the inability to manage their income appropriately. When they realised that they could not access their pensions, their ability to go back to full-time hours was not simple, and the emotional toll has been significant, too. Many WASPI women now experience stress and depression brought about by financial uncertainty. It is only fair that the hard and consistent work done by these ladies is financially recognised. I say this with respect to the Minister, but one of the first steps that this Government took was to sort out the back pay of union workers.”
“All their financial planning was in place, and then it was just taken away. That meant that when the WASPI women lost their pensions, they lost all sources of income and met unexpected financial insecurity. The insufficient information was not only negligent, but deeply unjust, and the Government have acknowledged that to be the case, so there is a precedent. The hon. Member for Lewes (James MacCleary) was right to say that the process was backed away from. Women who spent decades raising families, paying taxes and contributing to the economy were left without recognition for their hard work. Many WASPI women were forced back into the workforce, often with disabilities and often into low-paying jobs, or had no choice but to apply for benefits. Those women should never have had to do that after a lifetime contributing to the system.”
“I do not know all 7,000 personally—I have not done that roll-call—but those who have come to me have told me their stories. In many cases, they are ladies who have cleaned floors or cleaned offices or been classroom assistants or teachers. Age catches up with us all, and it catches up with me, too. It catches up with them, and their knees are not as strong as they used to be. They planned their pensions in accordance with the timescale, and then it was taken away from them. That is the concern I have. They had planned for their life, and then they were deprived of that. The report rightly found that some WASPI women were not informed about the changes to their pensions and had made long-term financial plans based on the assumption that they would receive their state pension at 60.”
“It is a real pleasure to speak in this debate. First, I thank the hon. Member for Salford (Rebecca Long Bailey) for setting the scene so incredibly well and all the hon. and right hon. Members who have contributed fantastically, putting across the demands of their constituents. This is not a new issue, and we know that. I do not think I have missed a WASPI debate. Indeed, I do not think the right hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Sir John Hayes) has missed one either in the time I have been here. This week in this House has given me hope that perhaps the Government can acknowledge when we are moving in the wrong direction. The Government need to correct the wrong steps taken and follow through on the recommendations in the ombudsman’s report. Northern Ireland has some 77,000 WASPI women, of whom 7,000 are my constituents.”
“I commend the hon. Lady on bringing forward the debate. She is absolutely right, but it is about even more than mobile phones. I am not technically minded—I own up to that; I am of a different generation—but today’s young person carries on their mobile phone bank details, family things and personal things that allow access to accounts and whatever else. Sometimes, in the back of their phones they have their debit cards and their driving licence, so when someone gets their phone, they get almost their whole life. As the Minister acknowledged in a previous debate, perhaps today’s young person needs to understand that if they lose that, they lose almost everything financially.”