Jim Shannon
MP for Strangford · Democratic Unionist Party · United Kingdom
“I thank the Minister for those answers. This has happened three times in three years. Normally, on the third strike, you are out. Instead, the chief executive gets an £871,000 bonus. For people in Northern Ireland, a flight to Great Britain is a basic utility. When NATS crashed, my constituents were entirely cut off.”
“When it comes to lobbying, Northern Ireland has a peculiar circumstance where one party can be involved in politics in Northern Ireland and at the same time be involved in politics in the Republic of Ireland. When it comes to the accountability that the hon.”
“Member for North East Fife referred to this—everybody knew every officer in the area where they lived. Different times mean different pressures and different needs, but I have always supported community policing in all my years as an elected representative, throughout my time on the council and in the Northern Ireland Assembly before comi…”
“I will say this to the Minister: although policing is a devolved matter for us back home, I want to make some comments, if I may, about the focus of the police, which means they sometimes do what is unnecessary. I will give an example.”
“The hon. Gentleman is a Leicester City supporter, as I am; we do not have to seek our sorrows at this moment in time, but that is by the way. More importantly, his comments underline the issues for local independent pharmacy owners. As the hon.”
“That is the reality for these people, who have consciences, feel compassion and want to care for their patients and customers. The impact is clear, because almost 90% of pharmacies in Northern Ireland were unable to pay their wholesaler bill in January. Think about what that means for a second: that is real pressure.”
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“There is a memorial dedicated to the members of the 70th Battalion, Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers who were killed in the second world war, and in remembrance of all the civilians and service personnel who lost their lives in the first and second world wars. There is also a small monument for the UDR Four. I knew three of those four Ulster Defence Regiment men, who were murdered by the IRA. The memorial for them down at Ballydugan in Downpatrick was damaged, but we were able to get Ards to take it on and we have it in Newtownards. The blood of all our forefathers, in our Army, Navy, Air Force, Royal Ulster Constabulary and prison service, is worthy of honour and we must continue to honour it well in this nation of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. We always do it better than anybody else.”
“I believe that consideration of the level of sacrifice that was made for the freedom and security of our nation and this world is an essential component of community life. Schoolchildren are brought to see the Cenotaph, but of course additional memorials have been erected since. There is a memorial to the members of the Polish air force who served, including at the airfield at Ballyhalbert, in the second world war. Of course, some of them came to Northern Ireland, met some of our young ladies, fell in love with them, married them and did not go home again. Some of those Polish guys stayed in Northern Ireland over all those years, which is important to recognise.”
“Despite the erection of the permanent memorial in 1934, commemoration events were still being held at the plywood cenotaph as late as 1941. I first attended the Remembrance Sunday parade when I was in the Army—a long, long time ago—and I have attended since I became a councillor on Ards borough council in 1985. It is always a very poignant occasion to go along and pay respects to those who, as the hon. Member for Cowdenbeath and Kirkcaldy said, gave us the liberty, the freedom and the democracy that we now have. As custodians of those things, we hope to carry them on to the next generation. At our annual Remembrance service, the names of the fallen are often read out. There are so many names on that list that are still so popular in our town, which is so poignant and impactful.”
“After the Somme service, in 1927 members of the Newtownards British Legion conceived the idea of erecting something of a more permanent character. The volunteers made a concrete cenotaph modelled on the same lines as the temporary structure. It was constructed in the grounds of the legion headquarters on land that had been secured from the County Down railway. It is a step down memory lane to think of the County Down railway—that has been away from before I was born, I think. On the face of the upright standard are the words, “Our Glorious Dead”. The first base is inscribed with, “In Memory of Our Fallen Comrades”, and on the next are the words, “The Great War”. The hon. Member for Cowdenbeath and Kirkcaldy referred to all those things when she set the scene incredibly well. There is a third step, and then an outer verge.”
“Well, they will know about it before I have finished anyway. Newtownards in my constituency of Strangford has always had a history and tradition of serving in uniform, whether it be in the Army, the Royal Navy or the Royal Air Force. I declare an interest: I served in the Ulster Defence Regiment and the Royal Artillery for 14 and a half years as a part-time soldier. After the great war, a memorial was erected in Newtownards, acknowledging the sacrifice of so many. A cenotaph made out of plywood was erected by members of the British Legion in Conway Square in 1925 for the Somme commemoration ceremony. The first wreaths were laid at 7.30 am. The reason why the time was important is that that was the time at which the Ulster Division made its attack on 1 July 1916.”
“I welcome what the Foreign Secretary has said, and I warmly welcome the Prime Minister’s repeated assurances that vaccination remains an international development priority. Ahead of tomorrow’s high-level pledging summit, does the Foreign Secretary agree that the UK must continue to make a significant contribution to Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance to ensure that millions of children are protected from some of the world’s deadliest yet treatable diseases, such as malaria?”
“The hon. and learned Member for North Antrim (Jim Allister) asked the question I had hoped to ask, and the Minister sort of answered it, so I will ask a quite separate question. If the ambition is to reach spending at 5% of GDP on defence and broader security by 2035, what is the true current figure? We know the figure for defence but not for wider security; will it include MI5, MI6, GCHQ, counter-terrorism or, indeed, all of the police forces across this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland?”
“I thank the Foreign Secretary for his statement. It is essential that we have a fuller understanding of the reach of China, as well as of our goals. British citizens have contacted me about the human rights violations, not only against those in China but those who live on our shores. Will the Foreign Secretary ensure that China understands that its reach stops before our shores, and that our people are entitled to think and have freedom of speech whenever they desire, without any fear of reprisal?”
“I commend the hon. Lady for securing this debate. She is right to mention the organisation Brake and the good work it does; it does the same good work in my constituency, and we all benefit. In Northern Ireland, speed cameras are primarily installed in locations with a demonstrated history of injury, collisions and speeding problems, so they are mostly on motorways rather than in country areas where there are more accidents, with the result that they are not as effective as they could be. Does she agree that the oversaturation in some areas and underusage in others has led to the general public losing confidence in the use of speed cameras as a tool for road safety, and instead, many see it as a revenue-raising exercise?”
“It is very important that those who have pensions get a return, so that their pensions are beneficial. It is also important to ensure that net zero is delivered, because many people who have pensions want to see that happen. It is about getting a balance, so how will the Minister get that balance?”
“I thank the Foreign Secretary for his statement. I have often spoken in this Chamber about the Iranian regime and the horrific human rights abuses that take place under the IRGC. I have nothing but admiration for the steps taken to destroy Iranian nuclear armaments by our American and Israeli allies—steps that we must support. Will the Foreign Secretary confirm that the UK stands shoulder to shoulder with the US and Israel as they do what needs to be done? We must send a message to Iran that retaliation in any form will not be acceptable, and that it would face the might of the best armed forces in the world—the British armed forces.”
“You are very kind, Madam Deputy Speaker—we got there in the end. I thank the Secretary of State for his statement, which is full of positivity. Everyone here welcomes it deep down, and if they do not, then they should: well done, Minister, and well done this Government. While I welcome the news that more than 7,000 British businesses are set to see their electricity bills slashed by up to 25% by 2027, it is clear that much more support is needed, such as a reduction in corporation tax, especially for businesses in Northern Ireland, which borders the Republic of Ireland where the corporation tax rate is half of our rate at 12.5%. Will the Secretary of State discuss that with his Cabinet colleagues in order to provide greater support for our industries in Northern Ireland?”
“Will the Minister acknowledge the righteous anger of the good people of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and what steps will the Minister take to ensure there is not a repeat in Aldergrove, or indeed any other military base with British personnel here or abroad? Some of my Strangford constituents are stationed at these military bases, not just in the United Kingdom but across the whole world.”
“The actions of those criminals at Brize Norton may cause up to £30 million in damage, as well as the security measures that will have to put in place. However, the true cost of their actions cannot just be measured in money; it is the anger that right-thinking people have towards those pro-Palestine activists who would attack our military to make their political point. They are a threat to those of us who live in this United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. This terrorism cannot be accepted. It reminds so many of us—especially those from Northern Ireland—of dark days gone by.”
“I thank the Minister for his statement today and for his clear commitment. I want to describe Armed Forces Week in Newtownards in my constituency. On Saturday, 60,000 people came to pay their respects to those who serve in uniform. Whether they serve in the Army, the Air Force or the Royal Navy, they are part of our community, and the community showed its solidarity with them for their courage, bravery and dedication. The hon. Member for North East Derbyshire (Louise Jones) was right, by the way. I met the lady who will take over at Thiepval Barracks in Lisburn at the end of this year—again, an indication of the commitment of those women and ladies, who can do the job equally well as anybody else.”
“I commend the hon. Member for North Down (Alex Easton). He is my neighbour and has been my friend for many years. We served in the Assembly before we ever came here. It is a pleasure to see him secure what I understand is his first Adjournment debate; it will be the first of many, no doubt. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that trust in some GP surgeries has diminished due to the lack of face-to-face contact? While sending photographs and having discussions over the phone suits some working constituents, for others the lack of face-to-face interaction can mean that symptoms are missed that can only be seen face to face. Does he also agree that GP surgeries are struggling due to the lack of support, and that surgeries throughout the UK must be given more help and assistance so that they can thereby provide more access for their patients?”
“I thank the Minister for his responses, which have been incredibly helpful. When I think of GP access, I think of two things; the first is Strangford and the villages along the Ards peninsula, where I have lived for most of my life and where I represent. There, the best way of contacting a GP is by phone—that is the nature of the situation there—but one of the things that helps in Newtownards, which is the biggest nucleus of people in the area, is for people to go down to the surgery at 8 o’clock or half-past 8, join the queue and get their appointment there and then. That is another way of trying to access the GP; there is nothing as frustrating as being on the phone from 8 o’clock to half-past 8 or 9 o’clock and not being able to get an appointment. At least when people can see their doctor, they can definitely get one.”
“On the TV last night, they did a survey of GPs. The relationship between a GP and a patient is incredibly close. When our children and grandchildren come into the world, our GP is involved. When a GP has to deliver a diagnosis of terminal illness, there is fear not just in the eyes of the patient but in the eyes of the GP—the doctor, the friend we all have. Does the right hon. Gentleman recognise the importance of today’s debate and vote? It will change forever that relationship of trust between the GP and the patient; it will do so in a negative way and it will never change ever again.”
“I spoke to the hon. Lady beforehand, and I understand her concerns. They are the same concerns I have, on behalf of those who have anorexia, those with mental health conditions, troubled people—those who would be vulnerable when this idea was presented to them. Does she think, like I do, that this Bill does not in any way address the issue of those who are vulnerable, when it comes to assisted dying?”
“Will the Solicitor General outline what support there is for the families of domestic abuse victims—specifically children who have witnessed and been traumatised by that abuse and who need support, which would also enable their parents to feel more confident in continuing their legal cases?”
“I wish to raise the urgent situation facing Christians in Nigeria, where militants recently carried out a co-ordinated attack, killing some 200 people and burning accommodation over three hours. That followed a surge of violence in a predominantly Catholic area, with over 100 killed and 5,000 displaced. Will the Leader of the House ask the Foreign Office to update the House on its assessment of this violence, and ensure that the Foreign Secretary acts with Nigerian authorities and international partners to protect vulnerable communities, provide humanitarian aid and hold perpetrators to account?”
“I thank the Minister very much for his answers. He is always incredibly pleasant, and we appreciate that. Can he confirm that the 10-year strategy incorporates the need to enhance connectivity throughout the whole of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland? In particular, may I ask him about flights between Belfast and other major UK cities, which are becoming more costly by the day?”
“I thank the Minister for her statement and her answers. In the short time she has been in her role, she has always delivered good news, and that is quite a talent, so I say well done and I thank the Government for that. Double the number of households in the United Kingdom will get £150 off their energy bills, and that is very welcome for those on means-tested benefits. However, with one in four children living in poverty in Northern Ireland, it is essential that this announcement applies in Northern Ireland too. Will the Minister confirm that Northern Ireland is included in this help for the vulnerable and those in poverty? Will it come through Barnett consequentials or another way?”
“As a Northern Ireland MP, I wish to convey my best to the English and the Welsh ladies’ teams. Although the order will not apply to Northern Ireland, that will not stop us cheering on the English and the Welsh teams on a different timescale in our pubs, our restaurants and our cafés.”
“Today is the first step in this journey, and I look forward to participating in further journeys.”
“One in 10 children will suffer from continence difficulties, whether it be bed-wetting, daytime wetting, constipation, soiling or difficulties with toilet training. The hon. Member for Chelsea and Fulham (Ben Coleman) referred to that issue, and it cannot be ignored. Improving catheter care in the community would reduce A&E attendance and hospital admissions, which fits well with two of the Secretary of State’s three shifts: hospital to community and sickness to prevention. Can the Government commit to implementing that in a co-ordinated strategy? Colleagues have flagged the many changes that are needed, and I know these cannot be made immediately, but it is important that we move forward, that we have this discourse and that we dispel the darkness of shame and shine a light for those who feel isolated in the shadows.”
“We commend Ards and North Down borough council: it did that because it was the right thing to do, not because it had to do so. One in five people are affected by these issues, and yet it is a silent topic, so it is good that we are speaking about it today with the compassion, the understanding and the carefulness that it requires. Inadequate management of incontinence can lead to escalating costs due to morbidity and unnecessary hospitalisation; those are the side effects. It is good to see the Minister for Secondary Care in her place, because she always responds helpfully to the questions we ask. Some 6.5 million adults in the UK suffer with some form of bowel problem, so it is imperative that we do things better.”
“Ards and North Down borough council has upgraded 44 of its accessible toilets with features such as shelves, hooks, mirrors and bins to accommodate stoma care. My council has taken that action already. Additionally, the council is working to address the need for sanitary bins in all public toilets, including male toilets, where they are not currently a legal requirement. Ards and North Down borough council has already done that because it recognises that that is the right thing to do. The council did this at its own cost and on its own initiative—not because it legally had to but because it recognised the need. This helps to address the stigma, but it must be a UK-wide approach and not simply the decision of individual councils.”
“It is clear that we need to do more to remove any feelings of shame from continence issues, including by having a public conversation. I am very thankful that my local council, Ards and North Down borough council—I served on Ards council at one time—provides sanitary bins in accessible toilets across the borough, including some male toilets. These bins are part of a wider initiative to make public toilets more inclusive, particularly for individuals experiencing incontinence or with stoma needs. This debate is also about those with stoma needs. I am surprised by how many people I meet who carry a stoma bag. They have managed to deal with that, but it is not easy—it scares the wits out of me, I have to say.”
“Member for Dudley referred to, because people often feel uncomfortable discussing their symptoms and problems given the personal nature of the issue—I have to say that I feel a tad uncomfortable as well. As a result, many suffer in silence or wait a long time before discussing their incontinence issues with a healthcare professional. Only 20% of those affected go on to seek treatment, with many maybe not recognising their issues at first. Continence issues can be a significant contributing factor to social isolation. Whether we like it or not, many people will feel uneasy about these issues, so they will withdraw into themselves and seek to deal with their problems alone, which can prevent them from having a normal life.”
“The National Institute for Health and Care Excellence estimates that 61% of men in the general population experience lower urinary tract symptoms and some 34% of women live with urinary incontinence. I commend the hon. Member for Dumfries and Galloway (John Cooper) for focusing on prostate cancer. It is one of those things that us menfolk do not wish to think or talk about. He is right: it is probably the wife who says to us when we have a pain somewhere, “Did you go and see the doctor about it?” We most definitely should go and see someone about it. This debate is about raising awareness. It is not a topic that is openly discussed, as the hon.”
“I welcome you to your place, Sir Roger; it is a pleasure to see you there again. It is a pleasure to speak on this issue as my party’s health spokesperson. I thank the hon. Member for Dudley (Sonia Kumar) for setting the scene so incredibly well. The Patient and Client Council’s 2020 report “Accessibility and Quality of Continence Services in Northern Ireland”—I always give a perspective from Northern Ireland—estimated that some half a million people in Northern Ireland live with bladder control problems and some quarter of a million with bowel control problems, with many experiencing both. When we remember that Northern Ireland’s population is 1.95 million, it puts that figure into perspective.”
“I commend the hon. Gentleman for securing this debate. He is right to bring up the issue of water safety education. Sometimes, even strong swimmers can unfortunately get into difficulties. Does he feel there is a role for Education Ministers and local councils to identify where the problems are, whether they are in the seas surrounding the United Kingdom or in our lakes? Unfortunately, some people have jumped into the lakes in my constituency without knowing there were obstructions in the water, to give one example. Does the hon. Gentleman feel that there should be greater partnership work between the Department and councils to identify those problems, so that those who go swimming know exactly what to watch out for?”
“I congratulate the hon. Member on securing the debate. I spoke to her beforehand to ascertain her focus, which is clearly on the McCloud remedy. The McCloud remedy will have implications on tax for some members, with some needing to pay more tax—she has outlined three—and others being entitled to a refund. My constituents in Strangford are experiencing the same issue as those in Edinburgh West and are in a similar position of uncertainty. Does she agree that discussion with financial advisers is essential, and for those who do not have access to financial advisers, the employer—the national health service, in the case of my constituents—must provide workshops to ensure that workers can understand what their choice will mean in reality?”
“Doing so would deliver significant benefits and create hundreds of new jobs . It is where the potential is. Northern Ireland wants to play its part because the spin-offs for us all are quite significant. Arguments for that include that biomethane is almost identical to natural gas and can be transported through the existing gas pipelines, as the hon. Member for Cannock Chase mentioned. As we have already seen, it has been successfully injected into the gas network at Granville Ecopark in Dungannon. There is a strategy in place and significant progress there, but there is still a lot more to do.”
“I will not ask any hard questions; it is not in my nature to do so, but I do ask questions to hopefully progress the debate. The Minister knows that my questions will come from a Northern Ireland perspective. He has always answered in the past on what we want to do and what our strategies are back home. I look forward to his contribution. It is also nice to see the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for West Suffolk (Nick Timothy), in his place and I look forward to his contribution as well. Only last year Northern Ireland’s gas operators took their biomethane case to Stormont. There are two operators, but I want to focus on Phoenix Gas. It has been stated that adding biomethane to the gas network could cut Northern Ireland’s carbon emissions where we have ambitious, but very much achievable, targets.”
“Northern Ireland has set a target of net zero emissions by 2050, and developing renewable energy will be a key part of those plans. It is very important that we play our part. The hon. Member for Peterborough (Andrew Pakes) referred a number of times to the whole of the United Kingdom. He is right, because like me and others in this Chamber, with one exception, we are committed to this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and what we can do better together—not that we are better than anyone else, by the way. We see the advantages and it is important that we look forward. I welcome the Minister to his place. I always enjoy the Minister’s responses to our questions. He seems relaxed no matter how hard the questions are.”
“It is a real pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, as always, Dame Siobhain. I give special thanks to the hon. Member for Cannock Chase (Josh Newbury) for leading today’s debate. We were counting down the last 10 seconds before the debate and the hon. Gentleman walked in on No. 8 —well done! He may have been a bit breathless. I wish him a happy birthday and thank him for his contributions in this House during the time that he has been here. They are always on subject matter that we are all interested in. If we want to be progressive and visionary in this House, which we do, we need to look to the future for the things that are important. All areas of the United Kingdom are adapting their own strategies to contribute to net zero.”
“That is the goal I try to achieve in this place.”
“Those visionary projects, which can deliver much for us all, are well in hand, but there is a lot more to do. I look forward to hearing and witnessing how those developments play out in the future. There is so much that the devolved Administrations and institutions in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland can do to play a role in the transition to net zero, and this is one of those ways. I ask the Minister very kindly to engage, as I know he does, with the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs and the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment back home to ensure that we can be leaders in our green and net zero plans together. Within this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, we can do that. Even our friends in Scotland can benefit and help us to benefit.”
“It would reduce Northern Ireland’s CO 2 emissions by some 845,000 tonnes per annum, a fantastic contribution to net zero targets. That shows how Northern Ireland and the UK can work better together and contribute to net zero targets collectively, with advantages for us all. What is done here in England helps us in Northern Ireland, and vice versa. Yesterday, I spoke in Westminster Hall on the potential benefits of hydrogen in aviation, as I referred to earlier. There are numerous sectors in which hydrogen could play a key role in the transition. The UK Government aim to establish up to 100 GW of low-carbon hydrogen production capacity by 2030. The national gas grid is leading efforts to develop a hydrogen transmission backbone that will repurpose existing gas pipelines to transport hydrogen.”
“My hon. Friend is right to highlight that issue. Yesterday, in the hydrogen aviation debate, we talked about how costly energy is at the moment. In the past, we had the tidal wave and sea project in the Narrows in Portaferry in my constituency. The pilot scheme was successful in showing that it could be done, but it did not provide a cheaper price. Today, however, it could. I am quite confident that with a better understanding, and better offers for the supply of gas grid in Northern Ireland, we could ensure that prices would drop—I am confident that they will. The operators pointed to research by the Centre for Advanced Sustainable Energy Research, which shows that biomethane has the potential to supply 6,000 GWh a year, equal to about 80% of the current gas distribution network demands. That shows the potential, and that it can be done.”
“Of course there is. The hon. Gentleman is a product of Northern Ireland, as his accent shows—although he is now very much a Scottish nationalist—and I believe he recognises the importance of working together. Whether that is within the United Kingdom or further afield is not the issue. I never want to see Scotland moving away from us, because he is my Gaelic cousin, and together with many others, we have the same history and culture; we just have a different idea about the constitution. The people of Scotland, of course, have already spoken on the constitution and, although I know that is a different debate, I say very clearly that we are always better together.”
“I commend the right hon. Gentleman for bringing this issue forward. It is a difficult subject, and one that can be hard to listen to and respond to in a balanced way. I thank him for doing that well. Does he not agree that the science showing that the prevalence of birth defects doubling in cases of cousin marriage is reason enough to consider drastic legal action? While education is an enviable end-goal pathway, the stats show that it is not effective enough at present. In the interim, for the sake of children and communities, does he agree that action should be taken?”
“Absolutely right, Mr Speaker. I thank the Minister very much for her answers, but can she outline what support is in place for people of all faiths and none to receive counselling that is right and appropriate, helping them to find the answers that they all seek?”
“The development grants are between £500 and almost £5,000, and are available to micro-enterprises based in rural areas to support sustainability and growth. Over the last short time, £100,000 has been allocated to 32 rural businesses in my area. The scheme is oversubscribed. It was an annual scheme, but there is a question mark over what will happen in the future. I highlight that to the Minister—it is not his responsibility, but he is an hon. Gentleman, a good Minister and he does good for us all. Will he engage with the relevant Minister at the Northern Ireland Assembly to ensure that we continue to have the business growth that is available in my constituency of Strangford and across all of Ards and North Down?”
“Rural businesses in Northern Ireland are a vital part of the economy, with 58% of all businesses located in rural areas, although they only account for a smaller percentage of the total employment—21%—and a turnover of 25%. However, they are still critical for the area. The businesses are heavily concentrated in sectors such as agriculture, forestry, fishing and construction. Support for rural business is available through various initiatives, such as the rural business investment scheme and the rural business development grant scheme. They are administered by the local Ards and North Down council, but the money comes from the Department of Agriculture, Environment and Rural Affairs and the tackling rural poverty and social isolation framework. I commend my honourable friend and colleague Councillor Alderman Robert Adair.”
“The book is very clear, Mr Western: “the last shall be first, the first shall be last”. Today I am the last; the next day I will be the first. I thank the hon. Member for North Norfolk (Steff Aquarone) for setting the scene so well. I want to give a Northern Ireland perspective—I know that is not the Minister’s responsibility, but I always sew it into debates, and I have one question for him at the end. As the MP for Strangford, a wonderful mixed rural and urban area, I have the ability to see success in both areas, which I am thankful for. Although there is no doubt that business is more difficult to carry out logistically in rural areas, I believe there is greater potential—it is massive.”
“I commend the hon. Lady. The stories she tells about her father in the shipyards resonate with me and my constituency. They used to say that the asbestos was almost like clouds of snow; I wonder how anybody could survive that. Between 1985 and 1994, 527 asbestos-related deaths took place, with men making up 88% of them. That suggests that asbestosis continues to be a significant health concern, particularly among the older generations who were exposed to asbestos in the workplace. Does the hon. Lady agree that the Government must act now and that consideration has to be given to the older generations, who might have been exposed to asbestos in their working days and are now suffering with illnesses as a result?”
“I hope the Chinese Government are listening—they are probably not listening to Jim Shannon, the MP for Strangford. Perhaps they are not listening to any of us. I am one of those people who could not go to China even if I wanted to. I have no wish to go to China, by the way, Mr Western. You will never see me on a plane going that way, and never see me on the beaches, wherever they have beaches in China. I am interested in human rights and freedom of religious belief. Jimmy Lai should be freed.”