Hilary Benn
MP for Leeds South · Labour · United Kingdom
“As the right hon. Gentleman knows, the Irish Government published on 8 June their legislative outline, entitled “The General Scheme of the Legacy of the Troubles Bill 2026”. That is intended to fulfil the commitment that the Irish Government gave in the joint framework to co-operate to the fullest extent possible with the commission.”
“Northern Ireland is a society, as the hon. Gentleman knows better than most, that has been undergoing profound change since the signing of the Good Friday agreement 28 years ago. As the famous lines go, we have a shared history, but not necessarily a shared memory.”
“The right hon. Gentleman raises a really important point, and I am grateful to him for his question. We all have a responsibility—political leaders have a responsibility to call out what was witnessed for what it is and not mince our words, and as I have already indicated, social media companies have a responsibility to ensure that such m…”
“I hope the hon. Lady will recognise that the common travel area, which is more than a century old, is of great benefit to the citizens of the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland. Many people in Northern Ireland live their lives across that border every single day.”
“I do agree with my hon. Friend. The attack on Mr Ogilvie was truly shocking, and there was no justification whatsoever for the racist thuggery we witnessed on the streets of Belfast in the days following.”
“That was, of course, an awful feature of what we saw. One of the things I learned in my discussions was that those from the far right had taken a list of houses in multiple occupation in Belfast—a list that, in the interests of openness, was properly available on the Belfast city council website; the council has now taken it down—and used…”
The complete record
Every one of 6,304 lines we hold for Hilary Benn, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 72 of 127.
“Friend can take her place alongside the other members of the Committee when they meet at 2.30 this afternoon?”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you for taking this point of order, which, for reasons that will readily become apparent, is time critical. Last night, a Member on the Government Benches objected to my hon. Friend the Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson) being put on to the Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport. This was done in the knowledge that it would prevent her from being able to attend today’s very important Committee meeting, at which Rebekah Brooks, James Murdoch and Rupert Murdoch are giving evidence. There is, however, a motion on the Order Paper, tabled by the Committee of Selection, that will allow the House to vote to put this right, but it will not be debated until later. Is there anything you can do, Mr Speaker, to enable it to be taken now, or earlier, so that my hon.”
“Secondly, the Home Affairs Committee and the Culture, Media and Sport Committee will tomorrow take very important evidence from Sir Paul Stephenson, Rebekah Brooks, James Murdoch and Rupert Murdoch. If those Committees produce reports overnight, can you confirm that the House will have a full opportunity to debate those reports and any recommendations as part of Wednesday’s business? Thirdly, as there may be issues of parliamentary privilege that arise from Lord Leveson’s inquiry—for example, whether Parliament was lied to, or about the disclosure of material—have you had any indication from the Government, Mr Speaker, as to how they propose to handle matters of privilege in the inquiry’s terms of reference?”
“Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. First thing this morning, the Leader of the Opposition called for the House to meet on Wednesday, so I welcome the confirmation that we have just had from the Leader of the House that the Government will seek the recall of the House. However, given that events are indeed moving at a very fast pace, can we be clear on three matters? First, given the large and growing number of questions that now need to be answered by the Prime Minister concerning his judgment, it is essential that he lead the debate on Wednesday. Mr Speaker, have you been given any indication that he will do so, and of what form the debate will take?”
“Member for Yeovil and its findings against him, he came to the House on 12 May and made a personal statement, prior to his suspension from the House, and apologised. Now that the House has dealt with this case, whether Members agree or disagree with the outcome of the Standards and Privileges Committee process, seeking to withhold membership of a Committee as a means of taking further action against a Member is a difficult course for the House to pursue. After all, there may be other Members to whom some Members wish to object on other grounds when it comes to the membership of future Committees. We do not generally approach the putting together of Committees on that basis and it is not sensible to do so in this case. Either we are equal in this place or we are not.”
“I rise to speak briefly to the motion. I agree with the Leader of the House that the Bill is extremely important and raises profound questions about the regulation of the financial services industry and the accountability of the new arrangements. It is important that the Joint Committee gets on with its work and I, like the right hon. Gentleman, am a strong supporter of scrutiny of this sort. As he has said, it is rather unusual for the House to debate such a Committee’s membership—an issue that ought to be quite straightforward. Let me come to the heart of the matter concerning the right hon. Member for Yeovil (Mr Laws), as he is the subject of the amendment that some hon. Members have tabled. Hon. Members will recall that following the Select Committee on Standards and Privileges’ report on the right hon.”
“In light of that, why is it the Government’s policy that the Mayor of London has been given the London Development Agency’s assets free of charge, whereas every other council must pay for its regional development agency’s assets? Why is there one rule for London and another for the rest of the country? Finally, as these are the last business questions before the summer recess, may I thank the Leader of the House for his unfailing courtesy in answering Members’ questions and in responding to the occasional provocation on my part? May I wish him, the Deputy Leader of the House, you, Mr Speaker, Members on both sides of the House and, most importantly, the staff, who support us so ably and work so hard, a very pleasant summer break? Who knows, perhaps the Leader of the House will find some time to start blogging again?”
“When will we have a debate on the higher education White Paper? The Minister for Universities and Skills promised that fees of £9,000 would be charged only in “exceptional circumstances”. However, we have learned this week that the truth is very different: 80 universities will charge £9,000 for some courses, and the average fee will be £8,393. May we have a debate on the north-south divide? The Yorkshire Post reports that, although 109,000 more people are in work in London compared with a year ago, there are 20,000 fewer in Yorkshire and 15,000 fewer in the north-east. Yesterday, we saw the fastest rise in the number of jobseeker’s allowance claimants for more than two years.”
“The Criminal Justice Bill 2003, which the Prime Minister remembers well, had three days’ consideration on Report; but given that this lengthy Bill has had to go back to Committee a second time, will the Leader of the House find time for four days’ consideration on Report, instead of the inadequate two days that have been offered? Last week, the Leader of the House was asked by my right hon. Friend the Member for Warley (Mr Spellar) about Ministers who have refused to meet Members. I am now aware of at least eight cases in which that has happened. I am surprised, Mr Speaker, because it is surely the duty of every Minister to meet parliamentary colleagues if they ask. May I thank the Leader of the House and, indeed, the Deputy Leader of the House for their willingness to help to sort this out? We will pass them the details.”
“Given that it has been reported in the last few minutes that Rebekah Brooks has now agreed to appear before the Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport but that a summons to appear is to be served on James Murdoch and Rupert Murdoch, can the Leader of the House confirm that such orders apply regardless of nationality and that a further refusal to appear might be reported to the House as a breach of privilege? Can the Leader of the House tell us how many written ministerial statements the Government expect to publish next Monday and Tuesday, given that we have had 16 yesterday and 30 today? The Health and Social Care Bill is three times longer than the 1946 Act that set up the NHS and has now been considered in Committee twice; but second time round, only 64 of the Bill’s 299 clauses were looked at again.”
“Friend the Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) was acquired by legitimate means is to miss the point completely: it is never legitimate to publish medical information about a four-month-old just because of who his father is. This has, however, been a good week for Parliament, as the Leader of the House and the Leader of the Opposition said yesterday: asking questions, scrutinising, revealing the truth and working with the Government to hold News International to account. Can the Leader of the House confirm this morning that the inquiry will now be established immediately? We need clarity about the setting-up date, to protect all the potential evidence.”
“I am grateful to the Leader of the House for that reply. It is good to see him back at the Dispatch Box in his day job, after covering for the Prime Minister, who twice this week has sent someone else to the House when he should have been here himself. Last Friday, he was quite happy to be questioned by journalists on phone hacking, but he did not give Members that privilege until yesterday. So do we not now need the Procedure Committee’s recommendations on ministerial statements to be agreed as soon as possible? Will the Government find time for that? The House knows that it took the Prime Minister a little while to get it on News International, but some others still do not get it. To argue that the story published about the son of my right hon.”
“In his letter informing the House of his intention to step down, Sir Malcolm said that “members’...duties…will necessarily ruffle and disturb the peace of consensus”. I hope that we will promise Sir Malcom that we will all do our best to heed that advice, aided and abetted by the new edition of “Erskine May” that we are all eagerly anticipating. I am sure that the House will agree with what Sir Malcolm said recently: “One of the best features of the job is that I never know exactly what the day will bring”. That is one of the joys of this place, and I am sure that the same will be true of his retirement. It is with great and heartfelt thanks that, on behalf of the Opposition, I join the Leader of the House in offering our best wishes to Sir Malcolm and his partner, Robert Borsje, for their future.”
“He has written about the 18th-century politician and philosopher Bernard Mandeville, who first talked about the division of labour, and about Lady Mary Wortley Montagu, who once wrote a political periodical entitled the “Nonsense of Common-Sense”, which I am sure Sir Malcolm will have heard from hon. Members of the House from time to time. Yet, from his seat at the desk he has offered quiet, wise and courageous advice—never more so than in the wake of the expenses crisis, as the Leader of the House has recalled. At that time, he reminded us all that our freedoms as a Parliament—for that is what privilege is for—should not be cast aside in haste. Those freedoms are far too precious for that. I hope that he will cast an eye over the draft Bill on parliamentary privilege when it finally makes its appearance.”
“I am advised that when attending the Commonwealth Parliamentary Conference in Arusha in 2009, he was being driven by the Clerk of the Kenyan Parliament from Nairobi—an extremely gruelling journey—when in the middle of nowhere they had a flat tyre. While gloomily contemplating the problem, they were astonished by the sudden appearance of a priest, who had presumably been summoned telepathically by Sir Malcolm. As well as providing spiritual guidance, the priest managed to change the tyre and they continued their journey. Throughout his career, as well as giving sound advice and service, Sir Malcolm has found time to write widely on subjects far removed from Parliament.”
“I am glad to say that since then the pen and the tongue have replaced the fist and the whip but they are just as sharp in their own way. Having joined the Commons Clerks Department straight from university in 1967, Sir Malcolm has seen it all—from the Agriculture Committee, as we have just heard, to the Joint Committee on House of Lords Reform, and from Ways and Means to the House of Commons Commission. Sir Malcolm’s perspicacity and that watchful eye of his, peering over the table—that is what I will always recall—will have escaped few Members’ notice over the past 44 years. As we have heard, he has been very keen to share our experience with parliamentarians across the Commonwealth and the world, and to learn from them. His influence may be greater even than we suppose.”
“In addition to the achievements that the Leader of the House has recalled, Sir Malcolm has seen this place in and through turmoil—no more so than two years ago, but however bad that was, some of his predecessors have had a much tougher time. At the end of the 1500s, the Clerk had his own expenses troubles: he was so out of pocket that Members had to pass round the hat to pay his salary. In 1723, Thomas Ward made some extremely disobliging comments about King George I and for his pains was whipped around Palace Yard—the ancient equivalent of appearing before one of our more vigorous Select Committees. Later that century, Lucas Kenn was attacked in Cornhill, losing his wig and hat in the process, by a group who had just given evidence to a House Committee and wanted their documents back.”
“It is with great pleasure that I rise to support this motion on behalf of the Opposition, although it is a pity that Sir Malcolm is not here, for obscure reasons of tradition, to savour our praise. Oppositions do, from time to time, create a bit of trouble for the Government of the day, and in doing so we are always very helpfully advised by the Clerk of the House, who equally helpfully advises the Government on how to avoid the trouble. That is the skill of the Clerk—to offer guidance without fear or favour in the interests of our democracy—and that is exactly what Sir Malcolm has done with resolute distinction and great wisdom.”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Could you advise the House whether you received any indication earlier today from the Prime Minister as to why he was unable or unwilling to come to the House this afternoon to make the statement that we have just heard? His refusal to do so means that the House has had no opportunity to question him about these matters, whereas last Friday he gave the press the chance to do that in a press conference. Is not that a gross discourtesy to the House? Furthermore, given the number of questions asked of the Secretary of State this afternoon that he was unable to answer—I feel sorry for him, because he has been dumped in it—can you confirm that you would make time available later today for the Prime Minister to come to the House to make a statement if he can finally find the time and the will to do so?”
“Famous for his lecturing of local government about belt-tightening, it seems that he has recently replaced his £20,000 fuel-efficient ministerial Prius with a £70,000 Jaguar. Perhaps he could offer to drive over to Strasbourg and remind his Tory colleagues just how important it is to cut carbon emissions.”
“Here is another policy that just has not been thought through. Only Conservative Ministers could come up with a housing policy that makes people homeless and costs taxpayers more. Finally, may we have a debate on prime ministerial authority? Asked two weeks ago about the threat by his Tory MEPs to oppose tougher carbon emission targets, the Prime Minister promised the House that he would “work on” them. What happened? Such is his diminished influence that a majority of them simply ignored his pleas and voted against a binding 30% reduction this week. I have a suggestion that might help. The next time Tory MEPs are rebelling on climate change, perhaps the Communities Secretary could offer to assist.”
“The world cannot make it rain, but we can and must lend a hand. May we have a statement on housing benefit from the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government so that he can explain the letter that he authorised his private secretary to send to the Prime Minister’s office in January? It revealed that the Government’s housing benefit plans could make 40,000 people homeless, cut house building and end up not saving money but costing it. Yet while raising those “very serious practical issues” in private, the Communities Secretary was saying in public that he backed what the Government were doing. The House also wants to know which Minister knew what and when about that information, which was clearly available back in January but was not revealed during the passage of the Welfare Reform Bill.”
“It turns out that at the same time as the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions was in Madrid telling British employers to give British jobs to British workers, his Cabinet colleagues were having to explain why they had given a contract for British trains to German workers. Instead of blaming the procurement process, the Ministers who took this decision need to explain what they propose to do, given that this week Bombardier announced that 1,429 skilled workers in Derby, long the proud home of train manufacturing in Britain, will lose their jobs. So much for all the Government’s empty words about British manufacturing. In welcoming the £38 million in British aid announced this week to help the millions facing starvation in the horn of Africa, may I ask for a debate on the food crisis affecting our fellow human beings there?”
“It is time she came to the House to answer questions. Can we have an urgent statement from the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport on the BSkyB bid? It was clear yesterday that the House will no longer accept the course of action that he has been intent upon. In the light of what has been revealed about the activities at News International, this matter must now be referred to the Competition Commission. Last week, I asked for a statement by the Secretary of State for Transport on the award of the contract to build 1,200 Thameslink train carriages to Siemens.”
“When will we have a statement setting out how the inquiry will be established, who will chair it and what its powers will be? Can we be assured that it will cover the culture and practices that led to what happened, the nature of regulation, and the relationship between the police and the media? Can we have an urgent statement from the Home Secretary? The Prevention of Corruption Act 1906 makes it an offence for anyone to pay money to a police officer or for any officer to receive it. The House wants to be assured now that whatever the current investigation reveals, including on the allegation that the Prime Minister’s former director of communications sanctioned payments to police officers while he was at the News of the World , this practice is no longer happening anywhere. The Home Secretary has so far been conspicuous by her absence.”
“I am grateful to the Leader of the House for that reply. May I join him in congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for North East Derbyshire (Natascha Engel) on her award? Today, we remember the 52 victims of the 7 July bombings and their bereaved families. The terrible pain that they must still feel will be shared across the House. That anyone could have tried to exploit their raw grief to sell newspapers shows exactly why yesterday’s debate was so important. The best way to uphold the kind of journalism that we respect is to root out the kind of journalism that none of us can stomach. I have, therefore, three questions to ask the Leader of the House. The first is on the public inquiry, which must be judge-led. I welcome the Government’s swift change of mind since the Deputy Prime Minister rejected an inquiry on Tuesday.”
“As I indicated last week, we are very willing to assist in getting the legislation on the statute book as quickly as possible, because we all want to ensure that the law is restored to what everyone thought it was before the judgment. However, let me ask the Leader of the House two questions. First, can he confirm that the Home Secretary will be leading the debate? We see from his statement that all stages will be taken in one day, including the Committee stage on the Floor of the House. Secondly, when does he anticipate the Bill being considered in the other place?”
“I am grateful to the Leader of the House for his statement and for advance sight of it, which responds to the point that I raised with him last Thursday. It has taken Home Office Ministers far too long—six weeks now—to respond to a court judgment that was originally given on 19 May. The result has been a complete mess, with doubt about the enforcement of bail conditions—for instance, in domestic violence cases—and the Leader of the House having to make this statement, completely changing the business for Thursday. Can he give us any news on the application to stay the judgment pending the appeal hearing, which I understand is scheduled for 25 July, because it might have a bearing on Thursday’s business?”
“Member for The Wrekin (Mark Pritchard) had made it clear that he would neither be induced nor bullied by the Prime Minister into withdrawing his motion. Can we have a debate to praise the hon. Gentleman—others are trying to bury him—or at the very least to save him from being taken round the back of the bike sheds for a good hiding, as one colleague has apparently suggested? I assume that he did not mean it—perhaps it was just a job application to be a Tory Whip. Finally, as yet another policy bites the dust, does this not all reveal the fundamental truth about the current occupant of No. 10 Downing street? Unlike his much more resolute predecessor — [ Interruption.] Unlike Baroness Thatcher, this Prime Minister is for turning.”
“As we saw again at yesterday’s Prime Minister’s questions, he seems to know nothing about the huge increase in the number of NHS quangos that he is creating. After all the remarkable U-turns we have seen in the last few weeks, the very special humiliation of last week’s vote on wild animals in circuses took some doing. The issue was extremely clear: it is not right for the entertainment of others to make big beasts do things that do not come naturally to them, which is why we have all felt great sympathy this week for the Justice Secretary. As we have heard, first thing in the morning, there was a hard three-line Whip in a desperate attempt to defeat the motion, but by 4 o’clock in the afternoon it had vanished, along with the Government’s courage, because the hon.”
“No sooner had it hit the front pages than a source was briefing that it was back-of-the-envelope stuff: “He…should know better. This is not the way you make policy.” A few days later, the Deputy Prime Minister announced the localisation of business rates, again outside the House of Commons. Here are two major policy announcements. In one case, it seems that the Cabinet has not even had the chance to question him, let alone the House of Commons. In the other, we are still waiting for a statement. May we have a debate on Camnesia? That is not a previously undiscovered Polynesian island, but a previously undiagnosed condition that affects the Prime Minister’s ability to recall the detail of his own policies.”
“Has the Leader of the House seen the e-mail that was released this week from Evan Harris, the former Liberal Democrat Member? In discussing the changes to the Health and Social Care Bill, he wrote: “There is a view that we should keep quiet, say we had a victory and hope no-one notices this stuff—but I think that is not realistic. The plans remain bad for the NHS”. May we have a debate so that we can sit back and discover whether those views are shared by the coalition Liberal Democrats who still have their seats or whether they are doing what they do on occasion, which is to face in several different directions at once? Last week, the newspapers reported the Deputy Prime Minister’s plan to give away shares in the publicly owned banks.”
“Can we have topical questions on this important area of the Government’s responsibilities? Next Monday, Andrew Dilnot’s report on social care is due to be published. Will the right hon. Gentleman confirm that there will be an oral statement? Will he also undertake to find time subsequently for the House to debate these important matters? Talking of which, in view of today’s industrial action, may we have a debate about the Government’s mishandling of the public sector pensions negotiations? The Business Secretary said recently that he wanted a resurgent manufacturing sector. Therefore, can we have a statement from the Secretary of State for Transport on why he awarded a £1.5 billion contract for 1,200 new train carriages to a company in Germany, when it will put some 3,000 British railway manufacturing jobs in jeopardy?”
“I am grateful to the Leader of the House for that reply. I associate myself with the congratulations to Robert Rogers on his appointment. We look forward to continuing to work with him in his new role. We are about to have a statement on police detention following the court ruling. We stand ready to assist with emergency legislation if that is what is needed to deal with the problem. The Leader of the House did not refer to the possibility of such legislation in his statement. Will he tell us the latest position? Last week, my hon. Friend the Member for Slough (Fiona Mactaggart) raised the problem of questions addressed to the Minister for Women and Equalities being transferred to other Departments. Has the Leader of the House made any progress in looking into that?”
“May we therefore have a statement reassuring them that if they do take the plunge and voice support for the Government, they will not be left high and dry as so many of the Prime Minister’s Cabinet colleagues have found themselves in recent weeks? Finally, does this collective loss of nerve by the Government not show just how right was the Treasury mandarin who last week complained: “They just don’t seem to have thought any of this stuff through”? Sir Humphrey could not have put it better himself.”
“After all the policy changes, pauses, rethinks, repudiations, and U-turns in the past few weeks—by the way, I congratulate the Foreign and Commonwealth Office website on its honesty for yesterday announcing changes to the BBC World Service with the headline “Massive U-turn on BBC World Service funding”— did the Leader of the House see the conclusion drawn by one unhappy Conservative MP who this week said: “It’s not worth going out on a limb for something if it may be abandoned when the tabloids or the Lib Dems kick up”? Pity the loyal Back Benchers: they are keen to help, eager to please and want to back their Government, but they now have absolutely no idea, with all this prime ministerial hokey cokey, whether policies that are in this week might be policies that are out next week, or at the very least shaken all about.”
“The Daily Telegraph today reported: “Cabinet pair ‘at daggers drawn’ after bitter bin collection feud.” It seems that the right hon. Lady hung up on the right hon. Gentleman, and the pair are thought not to have spoken since. A colleague said: “The whole thing is fairly unpleasant. . .” So may we have a statement on why this fragile coalition inside the Conservative party now seems to be falling apart?”
“If not, may we at least be given a list of their names so that we can keep score? On the subject of zealots, may we have a statement from the Prime Minister on how he has got on since PMQs yesterday in his desperate attempts to prevent Tory MEPs from voting against a 30% reduction in emissions—which is, after all, a coalition policy—in the European Parliament today? This is a real test of his authority, and if he fails it his claim to be leading the greenest Government ever will be in tatters. May I offer the Leader of the House an apology? I fear that my comments on weekly bin collections may have inadvertently contributed to a widening of the rift between the Environment Secretary and the Communities Secretary over whose turn it is to take the rubbish out.”
“In the Prime Minister’s own words: “We have had a review of the national security and defence review over the past year” —[ Official Report , 22 June 2011; Vol. 530, c. 315.] When can we expect a statement on the outcome of the review? This week the climate change Secretary attacked right-wing ideologues and deregulation zealots for putting environmental regulations, including those in climate change and national parks legislation, on a list of so-called red tape that might be scrapped. We wish the Secretary of State well in his fight to save the regulations, but has the Leader of the House had any indication that the Cabinet Secretary’s right-wing, zealous Cabinet colleagues—presumably they were who he was talking about—have asked to make a statement by way of right of reply to this grave charge?”
“Following your comments on Tuesday, Mr Speaker, about the Government holding press conferences on major policy announcements before they come to the House to answer questions from MPs, will the Leader of the House now make time available for the Procedure Committee’s proposals on ministerial statements to be debated? The Committee’s idea that Ministers would be forced to make a formal apology on the Floor of the House for breaching the rules might concentrate the Government’s mind. Last week I asked the Leader of the House about reconsidering the strategic defence review. Yesterday the Prime Minister came to the House and let slip that he is doing so already, although he had not previously told anyone, least of all the House of Commons.”
“I am grateful to the Leader of the House for that reply. On tonight’s vote on stopping the use of wild animals in circuses, will the Leader of the House reassure us that the Government are not whipping their vote? Would it not be ironic if the whip were used to defeat the ban so that people can go on cracking a whip at circus animals? It is learning disability week, and yesterday I met a group from Leeds who had come to tell MPs that they face discrimination every day. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that any idea that disabled people should be paid less than the minimum wage would be outrageous discrimination, and may we have a statement condemning it?”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. We have today, for the second week in a row, had a written statement, followed by a prime ministerial press conference, followed by an oral statement. Last week it was on the Health and Social Care Bill, today it was on sentencing and legal aid. It is pretty unusual to have two statements on the same subject on the same day, but do you share my concern that it is discourteous to the House, because it means that the media have a chance to question Ministers on policy—the Prime Minister in the last two cases—before Members of this House get the chance to ask questions? As such, it is not in keeping with the spirit of our rules.”
“Is it possible, Mr Speaker, for you to prevent that from happening, and protect the rights of Members, by establishing, under Standing Order 83B, a programming committee that could meet and pass a motion today which might enable us to have a proper debate tomorrow, with amendments, by invoking one of the exceptions in Standing Order 83A to the rule that programme motions should be taken forthwith? Can you also tell us, Mr Speaker, whether, if the motion tabled by the Leader of the House is passed tonight, it will be in order for Members to argue in tomorrow’s debate that the whole Bill should be recommitted, especially as a motion in the name of the Leader of the Opposition calling for precisely that has been on the Order Paper since 24 May?”
“On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The House is only too well aware of the mess that the Government have made of the handling of the Health and Social Care Bill, but today’s Order Paper reveals that they are now outrageously and desperately trying to deny the House the right to decide whether it wishes to recommit the whole Bill to a Committee. Can you confirm, Mr Speaker, that not only would the business motion tabled by the Leader of the House specifically prevent the tabling of any amendment on the form of recommittal to the motion tabled by the Secretary of State for Health, which will appear on tomorrow’s Order Paper—for example, an amendment proposing the recommittal of the whole Bill—but if tonight’s motion were objected to, there would be no debate on recommittal tomorrow?”
“Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I am extremely grateful to you for your comprehensive response. The Health and Social Care Bill programme motion passed on 31 January disapplied Standing Order 83B, which relates to programming committees only in relation to consideration and Third Reading, and which does not apply to Committee stage. If that is the case, could not a programming committee bring the matter within scope by the device of now suggesting a Committee of the whole House, which would therefore ensure that, even if that Committee of the whole House were not to be agreed to tomorrow, first, there would be a debate and, secondly, we could consider amendments?”
“Jumping heroically on a passing bin-wagon, the Communities Secretary pledged to bring back weekly collections. In fact, he has been defeated by his own Conservative councillors who, after all, have introduced more alternate weekly collections than anyone else—Conservatives like Andrew Nunn, an environment cabinet member in Suffolk, who said bluntly: “Eric Pickles should spend less time reading the newspapers. He’s got it wrong.” I agree, but with one exception. After all the policies that the Government have had to throw away in the last few weeks, there is one address that desperately needs to keep a weekly collection of rubbish—No. 10 Downing street, where there is even enough room for a bin lorry to do a U-turn.”
“Members for The Wrekin (Mark Pritchard) and for Colchester (Bob Russell), me and many other Members in voting to do the right thing? Finally, can we have a debate on weekly rubbish collections? Although it was the Secretary of State for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs who answered Tuesday’s urgent question, we really want to hear from the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government as we all know that this was his pet project and his great cause, so he must be very disappointed. Brimful of nostalgia for the clink of glasses of warm beer, the thwack of willow on leather and the clang of weekly bin collections, he had proclaimed that having the rubbish taken away every seven days was “a basic right for every Englishman and woman”— Shami Chakrabarti and Liberty, please note.”
“The review has proved incapable of surviving contact with real events, and it has left this country in the extraordinary position of being an island nation that cannot put an aircraft carrier to sea. Having heard the Government’s pathetic excuses for refusing to bring in a ban on the use of wild animals in circuses, during the course of which the House was told, wrongly, that this was because of a non-existent legal case, has the Leader of the House had any indication from Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Ministers that they plan to make a statement dumping the policy before next Thursday’s debate? If not, will the right hon. Gentleman join my hon. Friend the Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick), the hon.”
“The Lib Dems think they have saved the NHS from the Tories, which has irritated those on the Conservative Benches, while the Prime Minister thinks he has saved the NHS from his Health Secretary, who is no doubt pretty cross, too. However, the people who really count, the public, think what we have known for a very long time—that you can’t trust the Tories on the NHS. Following the comments of the First Sea Lord this week about the effects of the Libya campaign on the Royal Navy and bearing in mind that we could have saved both time and money if we still had our Ark Royal and its Harriers, when are we going to have a statement from the Defence Secretary about looking again at the strategic defence and security review?”
“That is why trust is in very short supply, making it essential that, this time round, the House and all those who care about the health service have the time and scope they need to look again at the Bill in detail. As well as reconsidering the Health and Social Care Bill, can we also have a debate on why the Prime Minister got this so catastrophically wrong in the first place, with staff being sacked and then re-hired at great expense? As we saw yesterday—and it was really rather embarrassing—the Prime Minister does not do his homework and he does not even know what is in his own legislation. While no one wants to take responsibility for the mess, everyone is trying to claim credit for the changes.”