Stephen Kinnock
MP for Aberafan Maesteg · Labour · United Kingdom
“I thank the shadow Secretary of State for her kind words and look forward to our exchanges across the Dispatch Box. I am ready to engage with her on getting the maximum benefits for the people of Wales.”
“I thank the right hon. Lady and look forward to working with her. My understanding is that there were challenges around the helicopter capability. Decisions were taken by Natural Resources Wales some time ago to change the way that the tendering for helicopter capability works. We certainly need to look at that.”
“I thank my right hon. Friend for his question. Like him, I pay tribute to all those involved in the collective and heroic response to the wildfires.”
“I thank the right hon. Lady for her question. Many of the ideas coming forward for devolving power right across our United Kingdom, beyond Cardiff Bay and Holyrood, are very exciting, and I look forward to exploring them with her.”
“Just to be clear, this is not about staying out of the issue; it is about respecting the devolution settlement, but being prepared to work constructively where we can in partnership with the Welsh Government. The hon.”
“I know about and welcome the right hon. Gentleman’s strong connections to Wales. I recognise the connectivity benefits that WSMR’s proposal could deliver, particularly for passengers in Wales and the west midlands.”
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“I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question. I am not familiar with the details of that case, but if he would not mind writing to me, I would be very happy to take that issue forward. He is right that there is a mountain to climb, not least because of the mess that was left to us by the previous Government, but we are climbing that mountain step by step. The 10-year plan is a big step in the right direction; it is now all about delivery, and that is what we are doing every day.”
“As my hon. Friend will know, the consultation closed on 19 August. We are now considering the outcomes, and expect to publish a response very shortly. These reforms will improve support for patients with complex or urgent needs by better incentivising dentists to deliver this care on the NHS.”
“I did not hear the hon. Gentleman welcome the fact that we provided £100 million—an unprecedented amount—in capital funding for hospices, and £26 million a year and £80 million over three years for children’s hospices. We recognise that hospices benefit from being rooted in their communities, with amazing charity and philanthropy support, but of course we know that the Government need to do their bit as well, and that is precisely what we were doing. I was very pleased to visit Noah’s Ark children’s hospice in Barnet last week and to speak to the chief executive, who warmly welcomed the stability and certainty that the three-year allocation has provided.”
“As I have pointed out, we are providing unprecedented levels of funding for hospices, but there is clearly a challenging fiscal position. I note that in their manifesto the Liberal Democrats proposed to spend only an extra £8 billion on health and care, whereas we have invested £26 billion. Before calling for more spending, they should tell us what they would cut.”
“Through a £160 million investment in the additional roles reimbursement scheme, we have recruited more than 2,000 new GPs nationwide, but we recognise the inequities in funding that can exacerbate regional inequalities in access to services. I have launched a review of the GP funding formula to ensure that funding follows the needs of the population. The National Institute for Health and Care Research has begun a review of the Carr-Hill funding formula, which will conclude in six months’ time.”
“I do not know the details of that case, but if the hon. Gentleman writes to me, I can certainly come back to him on it. That sounds like a vital service that needs to be protected.”
“I absolutely agree. It has been very interesting to see that all the rhetoric of many Reform-led councils has come crashing down as they face the reality of the situation. Adult social care plays an absolutely vital role in the shift from hospital to community, and I am very happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss the matter further.”
“I thank the right hon. Member for that question. Security of supply is obviously of importance to the entire Government. My portfolio includes pharmacy, which is a very important part of that. I would be very happy to meet her to discuss further the matter she has raised.”
“I thank the hon. Member for that question. He will have seen that, in the 10-year plan, we have committed to tie-ins. Once the current cohort is through its studies, new cohorts will be tied into doing NHS dentistry for a period after graduation. I am sure that he welcomes that very important measure.”
“I am proud that this Government have removed the cliff edge of annual funding cycles, so that our children and young people’s hospices will now be able to operate on the basis of far greater certainty and stability.”
“This amounts to at least £78 million over the next three years to support hospice care for children and young people, mirroring current and previous years’ transaction arrangements. By doing this, we are promoting a more consistent national approach and supporting commissioners to prioritise the palliative care and end-of-life care needs of their local population. Further details on the delivery of this funding will follow in due course. This Government’s commitment to provide that much-needed funding until the end of the spending review period recognises that the ability to plan for the long term is vital to our children and young people’s hospices.”
“This is a continuation of the funding that, until recently, was known as the children and young people’s hospice grant. Children and young people’s hospices in London and the south-east are receiving almost £8.5 million of that £26 million of revenue funding. As confirmed in my written ministerial statement laid earlier today, I am delighted and proud to be in a position to announce that we will continue that centrally administered funding for the next three years of this spending review period. That includes the 2026-27 to 2028-29 financial years, as well as 2025-26. Each year, children and young people’s hospices in England will receive at least £26 million—adjusted for inflation—from NHS England via their local ICBs.”
“I am pleased that the first £25 million tranche of that funding, which Hospice UK kindly allocated and distributed to hospices throughout England, was fully spent by hospices on capital projects. An additional £75 million has been transferred to Hospice UK for onward allocation to individual hospices for use in the 2025-26 financial year, and I know that many hospices are already spending that funding this year. Hospices in London and the south-east are receiving over £28 million of that £100 million capital funding. That includes over £4 million for children and young people’s hospices in London and the south-east. We are also providing £26 million in revenue funding to support children and young people’s hospices for 2025-26.”
“It has also developed a palliative care and end-of-life care dashboard, which brings together all relevant local data in one place. That dashboard helps commissioners to understand the palliative care and end-of-life care needs of their local population. While the majority of palliative care and end-of-life care is provided by NHS staff and services, we recognise the vital part that voluntary sector organisations, including hospices, also play in providing support to people at the end of life and their loved ones. In recognition of this, we are supporting the hospice sector with a £100 million capital funding boost for eligible adult and children and young people’s hospices in England, to ensure they have the best physical environment for care.”
“I thank the hon. Member for Mid Sussex (Alison Bennett) for securing this vital debate. I also thank all those who work or volunteer in the palliative care and end-of-life care sector for their care and support—the compassion that they provide to patients, families and loved ones when they need it most. This Government want a society in which every child receives high-quality, compassionate care from diagnosis through to the end of life, irrespective of condition or geographical location. In England, integrated care boards are responsible for the commissioning of palliative care and end-of-life care services to meet the needs of their local populations. To support ICBs in that duty, NHS England has published statutory guidance and service specifications.”
“We will continue working with NHS England in supporting ICBs to effectively commission the palliative care and end-of-life care needed by their local populations. I reiterate my thanks to the hon. Member for Mid Sussex for bringing this vital issue to the House, as well as to all hon. Members who have intervened in the debate and are passionately committed to it on behalf of their constituents. Question put and agreed to.”
“Furthermore, through the National Institute for Health and Care Research, the Department is investing £3 million in a policy research unit in palliative and end-of-life care. The unit launched in January 2024 and is building the evidence base on palliative care and end-of-life care, with a specific focus on inequalities and on ironing out the regional variations to which the hon. Lady rightly pointed. I hope that those measures and our plans reassure hon. Members of this Government’s rock-solid commitment to building a sustainable palliative care and end-of-life care sector for the long term. Alongside key partners, NHS England and others will continue to engage proactively with our stakeholders, including the voluntary sector and independent hospices, to understand the issues that they face.”
“The Department and NHS England are looking at how to improve the access, quality and sustainability of all-age palliative care and end-of-life care, in line with our 10-year health plan. The Government and the NHS will closely monitor the shift towards strategic commissioning of palliative care and end-of-life care services to ensure that services reduce variation in access and quality, although some variation may be appropriate to reflect both innovation and the needs of local populations. Officials will present further proposals to me over the coming months, outlining the drivers and incentives that are required in palliative care and end-of-life care to enable the shift from hospital to community, including as part of neighbourhood health teams.”
“I was truly inspired to visit Noah’s Ark children’s hospice in Barnet yesterday to understand the key issues that it is facing and see how our three-year funding commitment will support it to continue delivering essential palliative care and end-of-life care services to children and young people in its community. When I chatted to the chief executive yesterday, it was very clear how pleased she is to have some stability and certainty in planning the staffing and the services provided at Noah’s Ark. It is a wonderful place; I pay tribute to everybody who works there, and to the families. We recognise the challenges facing the palliative care and end-of-life care sector, particularly hospices.”
“A lot more needs to be done around the early identification of people in need of palliative care and people reaching the end of life. The interface between hospitals, hospices and primary care is nowhere near where it needs to be. A big part of our neighbourhood health strategy will therefore be about how we ensure that hospices have a strong voice at the table in the holistic integrated planning that is such an important part of the journey. The hon. Lady made some powerful points about that in her speech, and we are looking at the issue as we speak. I am meeting officials to determine how to reform the system. It is not just about the money, but about how the system works. We think that there is huge room for improvement.”
“The hon. Lady will know that children’s hospices are in a different situation from adult hospices: there has always been a centralised grant for children’s hospices, whereas the funding for adult hospices goes through ICBs and is part of the broader budgeting and commissioning process. Clearly, we will need to set an overall financial framework for adult hospices. We are currently going through the final stages of negotiations, both with the Treasury and within the Department of Health and Social Care, to finalise the financial envelopes and allocations for each part of my portfolio and the portfolios of my ministerial colleagues. Although the investment is important, there are big opportunities around reform.”
“My officials and I will be following up with those ICBs to ensure that the appropriate action is being taken.”
“I have also asked my officials to explore whether we can strengthen the regulatory framework to be able to deal more quickly with pharmacies that do not play by the rules. My officials are working on that as a matter of urgency. My office is also setting up a meeting with the hon. Gentleman to discuss this matter further and I will keep the House updated in the usual way.”
“Members that pharmacies are private businesses and must be responsible business owners. We can regulate what pharmacies should and should not do as part of their NHS terms of service, but it is not possible to prevent pharmacies from, for example, not paying their staff. In conclusion, if pharmacies breach their terms of service, for example by not being open when they should be or where there are patient safety concerns, we take action. The General Pharmaceutical Council is taking regulatory action. ICBs are taking regulatory action and are supporting patients with access to medicines where necessary. This is aimed at improving pharmacies’ behaviour, but can ultimately lead to pharmacies being forced to close their business.”
“As he will understand, it is difficult for me to go into detail about one pharmacy chain, at least on the specifics of the measures we are taking, but I can tell him that where there are problems with access to medicines, ICBs are supporting affected patients in the short term, for example by allowing local dispensing doctors to provide dispensing services to those patients. Where pharmacy stores regularly breach their terms of service, ICBs can give them notice that they are being removed from the pharmaceutical list. This power applies to any and all pharmacies, including, of course, Jhoots, and means that pharmacies would no longer be able to provide NHS services. Such notices can be appealed against, so it does take some time to work through the system. I stress to hon.”
“Members will know that several integrated care boards have been deploying contract management actions against Jhoots, initially in the form of breach notices. Integrated care boards enforce the NHS terms of service on pharmacies for such things as their opening hours, and the General Pharmaceutical Council regulates pharmacy premises and pharmacy professionals. Both ICBs and the General Pharmaceutical Council have powers to address problems in pharmacies and they are actively using those powers, including in relation to stores that are part of Jhoots. I have written to the hon. Gentleman about this case.”
“I congratulate the hon. Member on securing this important urgent question. Pharmacies play a vital role in our healthcare system. They are at the heart of our high streets and are the cornerstone of communities up and down the country. That is why this Government have given pharmacies a funding boost of almost £500 million this year, which is more than any other area of the NHS and the biggest uplift in years. Indeed, we have provided a 19% uplift over the two-year period. The vast majority of pharmacies provide excellent care to their patients, but unfortunately there are some that fall short of the standards we expect. Sadly, the services provided by Jhoots are falling well below the mark. Hon.”
“Where there is no sign of improvement and pharmacies continue to be in breach, the next escalation is to strike them off the pharmaceutical register, which takes some time, because certain pharmacies—I am not going to name names, but I am sure the hon. Gentleman can imagine who—are trying every single thing they can to appeal, push back and stop the actions that we are seeking to take, which is elongating the process. However, I want to be clear: if there is clear breach and action is not taken to remedy that breach, pharmacies will be struck off the pharmaceutical register.”
“Of course, pharmacy staff are employed not by the NHS, but by the businesses they work for, so any dispute between staff and a pharmacy business should be raised with the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service, ACAS. I am also in touch with the Pharmacists’ Defence Association—the PDA—which is doing important work representing its members. I will be meeting them soon as well. Of course, we have responsibility for the NHS part of the work, but it is up to individual businesses to ensure that their employees are treated fairly. The hon. Gentleman rightly mentions the review of suitability to operate, and we are now looking at that across the board. We are looking at the role of the General Pharmaceutical Council and what is taking place with ICBs taking contract action.”
“I agree with everything the hon. Gentleman has said. It is completely and utterly unacceptable if a business such as Jhoots is not paying its staff. If there are indeed these reports that controlled drugs are not being handled properly, I would strongly recommend that any mishandling of drugs be reported to the General Pharmaceutical Council, which regulates pharmacy professionals and premises, so that appropriate action can be taken. The hon. Gentleman asked about the payment of staff. Pharmacy staff are vital parts of the NHS part of what a pharmacy does. Pharmacy staff provide vital services to our communities and should be paid according to their contracts; any failure to do so is completely unacceptable.”
“Friend is right that speed is also important, which is why we need to look at ways of fast-tracking particular cases where there is clear breach, because sometimes the appeal process can be very slow indeed. We are looking at all of this in the round, and I have commissioned urgent advice from my officials to see how we can beef up the regulatory framework.”
“I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s direct professional expertise and experience as a pharmacist. He is right to point to the fact that the regulatory framework is not as strong as it needs to be. I have spoken with officials in my Department who have worked in the pharmacy sector for many years, and they have never seen behaviour like this before. It is quite unprecedented. Nevertheless, it is shining a light on the fact that we do not have a strong enough regulatory framework. We need to look at the way that business owners are regulated. There is strong regulation of pharmacists and pharmacy staff such as technicians, but business owners are not regulated as strongly as they could and should be. My hon.”
“We are working at pace to strengthen the regulatory framework and we are looking at contingency plans. I do not see any reason why the overall funding settlement for pharmacy should be undermined. We will continue to protect community pharmacy as a crucial part of our NHS.”
“We have looked at the impact geographically, and our view is that in most cases there is alternative pharmacy provision to Jhoots within striking distance. However, there are four or five areas of the country where that is not the case, including in the constituency of the hon. Member for West Dorset (Edward Morello), who secured this urgent question. I am very conscious of that. In those cases, extra provision needs to be made through ICBs and GPs—that may be through distance selling or by other means—to ensure that patients have pharmacy access. The shadow Minister asks about continuity of care and national contingency. The situation is challenging because, as I mentioned in my remarks and as officials have said, we have not seen this rapid decline in service before.”
“We are looking at a whole range of legal and regulatory enforcement procedures, and the decision we have taken is that it is better not to interfere in any way in those processes, but I am certainly monitoring that very closely. If we receive legal advice that suggests that such a meeting would be a good idea, I will of course be open to it. However, the current legal position based on the advice we have received is that it would not be appropriate at this time. On local pharmacy access, integrated care boards have a statutory responsibility to ensure adequate pharmacy provision. Some ICBs, for example, have allowed dispensing GP practices to provide dispensing services to affected patients, while others have worked with local GP practices to advise patients to nominate alternative nearby pharmacies for their prescriptions.”
“I thank the shadow Minister for his questions. He asked about first awareness of what was happening with Jhoots. He will be aware that it entered the market through the purchase of a number of Lloyds pharmacies that were no longer a going concern in 2023, so the question about due diligence on Jhoots as an operator is probably something he should be asking one of my predecessors from his party, which was in power at the time. Since those purchases, Jhoots has expanded rapidly, and that has been where we have seen the question marks around its ability to operate and the serious downgrading of services. I have not met the management of Jhoots.”
“I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s work on the Select Committee. NHS England is assessing the situation and preparing contingency plans in case Jhoots becomes insolvent. Such plans involve working with other local pharmacies and dispensing GP practices to ensure that patients continue to have access to medicines. Continuity of care, as she rightly points out, must be at the heart of our response, and we are working at pace to ensure that is protected.”
“I thank the hon. Member for those questions. I would certainly be happy to meet Members who have Jhoots in their constituency and are affected. I will update the House. We are looking at strengthening the regulation, but there are some constraints on what I can say, because so much of this is now going through legal process. There is pushback, and we do not want to do anything to jeopardise the legal action we are taking through the appeal process, so I will have to be relatively circumspect in what I say. I am happy to have those discussions and to update the House. I am confident that ICBs can take this forward. In most cases across the country, our assessment is that there is a pharmacy within striking distance of a Jhoots, but certainly in those areas where there is not, that may require particular follow-up action.”
“I agree with absolutely every word that my hon. Friend has just said. It is completely unacceptable that people are coming into work, doing an honest day’s work and then not receiving an honest day’s pay. Unfortunately, there is a limit to what we can do, because pharmacies are private businesses and each employer is required to fulfil their legal obligations to pay their staff. I recommend that the members of staff she mentions contact ACAS and their trade union the PDA, if they are not already in touch. For those who are not members of that union, I strongly recommend joining a trade union and seeking legal advice from it. That is a vital part of what trade unions do. They need to take action to force Jhoots to do the right thing.”
“I pay tribute to the Boots employees in the hon. Member’s constituency where Jhoots is not providing the service that is required. We appreciate that. I can assure him that nothing is off the table. He has rightly identified the problem with the regulatory framework, which is strong on pharmacists, pharmacists’ premises and pharmacy staff, but there is something of a gap when it comes to regulating pharmacy business owners. That gap has been identified, and I have commissioned my officials to work on that at pace. I will happily keep him updated on that work.”
“My hon. Friend has put her finger on an issue within all this, which is that if we are looking to bring in other pharmacies to replace Jhoots or, indeed, to take over a Jhoots store, we cannot do that in the latter case until such time as there is an insolvency and that business is no longer a going concern. There is a process, set out in legislation, for opening new pharmacies. Potential new pharmacy contractors can apply to open in an area and evidence how a new pharmacy can provide benefits for patients, but it is a challenge for them to make such a case if a Jhoots pharmacy is still listed as open and providing services. It is something of a Catch-22 situation. We first have to resolve the issue with Jhoots and take the necessary action, and then we can see where we are with potential gaps in the market.”
“I thank the hon. Lady and pay tribute to her work as Chair of the Select Committee. I am very proud of the fact that we delivered a £500 million uplift to pharmacy—19% across the two-year period. It was the highest uplift of any sector, not just of my portfolio but the entire NHS. I am also very proud of the fact that we are taking forward hub-and-spoke legislation to enable pharmacists and pharmacy technicians to operate at the top of their licence. The day before yesterday we signed off on a statutory instrument to improve the ability of technicians to do more in the area of dispensing. We are looking to empower the workforce and enable them to operate at the top of their licence. That is a fundamental part of the shift from hospital to community that is at the heart of our 10-year plan.”
“My hon. Friend rightly puts her finger on the Catch-22 situation in which we find ourselves. It is patently absurd that a pharmacy that is not operating, as she just described, is blocking the ability of others to step in and fill the gap. That is something we have to resolve, and it is part of the work I have commissioned urgently. We clearly have gaps in the regulatory framework. This is an unprecedented situation, and we are working at pace to address it, but she has rightly put her finger on this Catch-22, which needs to be resolved. We need to move one piece out of the way so that we can deal with the situation.”
“I know that my colleague the Minister of State for Health is working hard on the drafting process for the Bill. I cannot give the hon. Member the exact date of its introduction, but I would be very happy to write to him with confirmation of the expected introduction date.”
“That is an excellent suggestion; I will do that. We are hearing colleague after colleague say that staff are not being paid, and if there is clear evidence of a breach of employment law, we absolutely need to look at that. I will follow up on my hon. Friend’s suggestion.”
“I do not think that is an accurate characterisation of what I am saying. I am saying that we are taking action against Jhoots from the regulatory point of view, and there is clearly a glaring issue with the payment of staff. That needs to be taken forward through the industrial relations process, both through ACAS and the PDA. We will give all the support we can to both those organisations to ensure that Jhoots is held to account.”
“We are actively working with integrated care boards, NHS England, the General Pharmaceutical Council and, indeed, trade unions to ensure that all of these issues are being taken forward and given the urgency that they require. Sadly, as I have pointed out, the regulatory framework is not adequate. It is very focused on pharmacists and pharmacy premises, and inadequately and insufficiently focused on business owners. That is something that must be addressed as a matter of urgency, and we are working on it at pace.”
“This is absolutely urgent, as the hon. Member rightly says. I have commissioned officials to work on this matter at pace. We can clearly see that this is a matter of national significance simply by the number of colleagues in the Chamber. I can give the hon. Member that assurance, and I would be happy to update him once I have a better sense of the exact timeframe and deadlines. We will be insisting that things happen as a matter of urgency.”
“We remain absolutely committed to the independent prescribing service and are working on the plans and strategy to make that a reality. We continue to support Pharmacy First, but sadly take-up of it has not been as good as we would have liked it to be. The way it was structured and incentivised has not enabled it to realise its full potential, and we are working on that as well. A number of errors were made by the previous Government, who did not set Pharmacy First up to succeed to the extent that it should have done.”
“The hon. Member is right: this is about making the regulatory framework more robust. As I have pointed out, it is robust on pharmacists, on technicians and on pharmacy premises, but it is simply not strong enough when it comes to pharmacy business owners. The unprecedented case of Jhoots is throwing that into sharp relief. That is what we are working on at pace. I will be happy to update her once we have some clear progress on the plan and strategy to beef up the regulatory framework to ensure that this kind of thing can never happen again.”