Stephen Kinnock
MP for Aberafan Maesteg · Labour · United Kingdom
“I thank the shadow Secretary of State for her kind words and look forward to our exchanges across the Dispatch Box. I am ready to engage with her on getting the maximum benefits for the people of Wales.”
“I thank the right hon. Lady and look forward to working with her. My understanding is that there were challenges around the helicopter capability. Decisions were taken by Natural Resources Wales some time ago to change the way that the tendering for helicopter capability works. We certainly need to look at that.”
“I thank my right hon. Friend for his question. Like him, I pay tribute to all those involved in the collective and heroic response to the wildfires.”
“I thank the right hon. Lady for her question. Many of the ideas coming forward for devolving power right across our United Kingdom, beyond Cardiff Bay and Holyrood, are very exciting, and I look forward to exploring them with her.”
“Just to be clear, this is not about staying out of the issue; it is about respecting the devolution settlement, but being prepared to work constructively where we can in partnership with the Welsh Government. The hon.”
“I know about and welcome the right hon. Gentleman’s strong connections to Wales. I recognise the connectivity benefits that WSMR’s proposal could deliver, particularly for passengers in Wales and the west midlands.”
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“I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s constituents, who are clearly going through an extremely difficult and challenging time. I strongly recommend that they contact ACAS and the PDA, or another trade union if they happen to be a member of one. His key point is about how we can ensure that this does not happen again. The GPhC is taking enforcement action against individual pharmacies and we have to wait for the outcome of those actions—some of those are going through appeal processes. As soon as one of those actions has concluded, that will greatly facilitate and catalyse the process for going after any pharmacy that is not delivering to the service standards that we would expect.”
“As I said, we are in constant dialogue with ICBs and the GPhC. I absolutely get it: we need to speed it up as it needs to be faster and more urgent. I am clear about that, and we are taking this forward as a matter of priority. In terms of taking action against individual directors, nothing is off the table. As I said, the regulatory framework as things stand does not facilitate that, so we have got to look at other options. But there are views in the GPhC that suggest there may be some ways of looking at interpreting regulations and legislation that could facilitate more immediate action. That is on the menu of actions that we are looking at.”
“In terms of the replacement for Jhoots services, that is where we are in a Catch-22 situation, because until a pharmacy that is not providing a service has been moved out of the way, it is not possible to move in and replace that service with another, so the first step in all this is to take action against those pharmacies that are not delivering to requisite service standards. As soon as we can get that process moving, we can start to commission and bring in alternative providers. I share his frustration and the impatience of his constituents, and I assure him that we are taking urgent action on all these issues.”
“What we clearly now need to do is upgrade the way we regulate pharmacy business owners. My officials and I are working on that as a matter of urgency.”
“I agree with the hon. Member on the vital role played by community pharmacy now and going into the future. We want that role to continue and, indeed, to be strengthened and expanded. If we look at our 10-year plan, with the shift from hospital to community, we see that community pharmacy is at the heart of that. Also, in the shift from sickness to prevention, we see the vital work that community pharmacy plays in delivering vaccines and a whole range of other services that really will support the prevention agenda, so community pharmacy is at the heart of our plan. The standards set out by the General Pharmaceutical Council—robust standards that are robustly regulated—require a certain level of service to be provided and certain levels of expertise and experience.”
“In relation to new clauses 6, 7, 29 and 36, we absolutely do not want young people placed in adult wards, and we are clear that patients should get treatment close to home. However, further legislative restrictions on placements risks leaving clinicians without options in emergencies or preventing treatment that is in the patient’s best interests. NHS England has worked with hundreds of children and families to develop a new service specification for children and young people’s mental health services. The specification is for commissioners and providers to follow, defining the care expected from organisations funded by NHS England to provide specialised care.”
“I thank everyone in the Chamber for their contributions to today’s debate. I will start by talking about the deeply moving contributions regarding the tragic death of Ruth Szymankiewicz. I extend my heartfelt condolences to Ruth’s family, and I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight West (Mr Quigley) and the right hon. Member for Salisbury (John Glen) for so powerfully advocating on behalf of Ruth and her family. The circumstances around Ruth’s death were unacceptable and should never have happened. We acknowledge multiple failings in her care. Turning to the amendments, while we are not accepting any changes to the Bill, I hope that I can assure the House, in the short time remaining, that we are taking action to address the concerns that have rightly been raised.”
“The revised code, on which we will engage extensively with—among others—children and their families and carers, will provide further opportunities to address concerns raised in amendments 33 and 39 and new clause 28. The code will also address the issue of competency. We believe that that is more appropriate than a test for competency in the Act, as proposed in new clauses 15 and 25.”
“We have also committed in the Bill to reviewing the existing CQC notification requirements, including whether notification should be extended to other incidents and whether the time period remains appropriate. We will work with families, clinicians and MPs as part of that review. Indeed, following recent conversations with my hon. Friends the Member for Isle of Wight West and for Lowestoft (Jess Asato), I have asked officials to host a roundtable next month with Members and experts on how we can provide greater clarity in the code. The focus will also be on NHS England’s service specifications and regulations on the placement of children and young people in adult wards, including determining if a placement is suitable.”
“I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. One of the core purposes of this Bill is to ensure that we catch such issues, particularly around the identification of children in cases where parents are required to be detained. We will reaffirm that children should be treated in the least restrictive, most age-appropriate environment and close to home and family, and that all services would work towards alternatives to admission, such as day care and intensive home treatment, with better support for visits, including with dedicated family areas and overnight stays. We have committed £75 million for systems to invest in reducing out-of-area placements, and I am pleased to report that the number of children placed on adult wards is now decreasing, and that trend must continue.”
“Information about support that is available must be shared, and if a young carer’s needs assessment is required, the appropriate referral must be made.”
“The code of practice will be statutory. It is better to have these provisions in the code, because clinical practice evolves, and it is much easier to revise a code of practice than to go through primary legislation. We understand the concerns expressed about young carers in new clauses 26 and 27, and recognise that despite existing duties, the right questions are not always being asked to identify children when someone is detained. While we do not agree that additional legal duties are needed, especially as multi-agency working is already being strengthened through the Children’s Wellbeing and Schools Bill, we do agree that we need to make the requirements more explicit. The revised code of practice will therefore specify that when someone is detained, steps must be taken to identify the children of the patient.”
“However, we are clear about the fact that our intention is not to set a threshold for detention. Under the new criteria, a harm does not have to be likely to justify detention. The criteria require likelihood to be considered holistically, alongside the change, nature and degree of the harm. I know that the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Hinckley and Bosworth (Dr Evans) is keen for me to deal with the question of public safety. The key point is that there are detention criteria in clause 5, which makes a clear reference to harm either to the patient or to other persons. That is clearly a consideration of public safety, and we therefore believe that amendment 40 is surplus to requirements. I trust that, on the basis of the assurances I have given, Members will be content not to press their amendments and new clauses.”
“Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jen Craft), we will work with stakeholders, including people with lived experience, to shape our road map for commencing changes to clause 3. The written ministerial statements will give updates on progress, as well as setting out future plans. It is not possible at this stage for us to commit ourselves to the specifics of implementation and community support, which depend on the final legislation passed, future spending reviews, and engagement with stakeholders to get implementation planning right. As for the concerns raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Anna Dixon) about the detention criteria in the Bill, it is vital that the work “likelihood” is included in those criteria to set clear expectations of what clinicians need to consider.”
“This can be more frequent, depending on needs. Patients’ families and advocates can request a review meeting at any point. In respect of new clause 32, we have consulted on making some restrictive practices, including long-term segregation, notifiable to the Care Quality Commission within 72 hours. Let me now deal with amendments 14 and 26 and new clauses 31 and 37. I acknowledge the importance of having a clear plan to resource community provision for people with a learning disability and autistic people to implement these reforms. We have committed ourselves to an annual written ministerial statement on implementation of the Bill post Royal Assent. Following conversations with my hon.”
“I am really struggling for time. I am sorry, but I cannot take any more interventions, because it is not fair to Members who have tabled amendments. Amendments 41 and 42 would prevent children with competence from choosing a step-parent or kinship carer as their nominated person if that is the most appropriate person for them. A nominated person can be overruled or displaced if acting against the child’s best interests. Parents will always maintain their rights under the parental responsibility. Many amendments concern statutory care and treatment reviews designed to help to ensure that people with a learning disability and autistic people receive the right care and treatment while detained and barriers to discharge are overcome. Reviews will happen within 28 days of detention, and at least once a year during detention.”
“We will engage closely with people with lived experience and their families and carers and with commissioners, providers, clinicians and others to do that. Much has been done, but there is much more to do. This Government are delivering on our commitment to modernise the Mental Health Act, and the work begins now to deliver that change on the ground. The Bill will of course now go to the other place, and I thank peers for their previous extensive consideration. I hope the noble Lords will be able to agree to the changes made in this House, so that the Bill can make swift progress to Royal Assent. I commend this Bill to the House.”
“I thank the Bill team, my private office and all the officials and stakeholders over numerous years who have worked hard to get this legislation to where it is today. Above all, thanks go to those with lived experience who have bravely shared their personal experiences with us through the independent review, through our consultation with stakeholder groups and through Members across both Houses. The Bill is the product of sustained effort over a number of years. That work will continue following the Bill’s Royal Assent, but none the less it is an important moment to acknowledge and pay tribute to those who have got the Bill to where it is now. The work continues as we look to implement the legislation. The first priority once the Bill gets Royal Assent will be to draft and consult on the code of practice.”
“We should particularly note the work of the former Prime Minister Baroness May for launching the independent review that paved the way for this legislation, along with the review chair, Sir Simon Wessely, and his vice-chairs, Steven Gilbert, Sir Mark Hedley and Baroness Neuberger. I thank Members who served on our Public Bill Committee, including the Chairs, and the clerks and all the parliamentary staff who have worked hard to ensure that the Bill was subject to the proper scrutiny while ensuring smooth and quick passage. I also thank the Joint Committee on Human Rights and particularly Lord Alton for its report and recommendations. I am grateful to the devolved Governments for their support during the Bill’s passage and to the Welsh Senedd and Northern Ireland Assembly for granting legislative consent.”
“We are also introducing a package of measures to improve community support, including statutory care, education and treatment reviews and dynamic support registers. We are introducing stronger safeguards for people who lack capacity or competence to consent to treatment—a potentially highly vulnerable group. Those patients will receive a second opinion-appointed doctor at an earlier stage in their treatment. This Bill has been the product of years of work predating this Government, and it is right that we thank hon. Members and peers for their scrutiny and support over many years.”
“We want to make sure that patient choice and patient needs are at the heart of decision making. That is why we are introducing these reforms to enshrine in law measures such as the clinical checklist, the use of advance choice documents, the role of nominated persons and the expansion of advocacy services. We are increasing the scrutiny and oversight of compulsory detention. We are making sure that those patients who are detained have a clear path to recovery and to discharge. We are introducing statutory care and treatment plans for all patients, so that their needs are met both during and after their hospital stay. To reduce reliance on in-patient care and ensure that people with a learning disability and autistic people get the right support, we are limiting the scope for detention.”
“It is clear that adults and young people with mental health issues have been let down for years, which is why we are transforming the current mental health system through our 10-year health plan, including through recruiting more than 8,500 additional mental health workers, delivering more NHS talking therapy appointments than ever before, increasing the number of mental health crisis centres, and providing access to a specialist mental health professional for every school in England. Today, we are another step closer to delivering the reforms to dealing with people with severe and acute mental health disorders, a step closer to strengthening and clarifying the criteria for detention, and a step closer to better supporting clinicians to make the right decisions around appropriate care and treatment, including community treatment orders.”
“I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time. Since the Mental Health Act 1983 was passed, and since it was updated in 2007, attitudes towards mental health have shifted dramatically, and our understanding has grown, but the law has been neglected. That is why this Government were proud to announce this Bill in our first King’s Speech, fulfilling our manifesto commitment and taking the first steps towards ensuring patients are consistently treated with dignity and respect—promise made, and promise delivered.”
“The transition period is to allow time for the pharmacy regulators and professional leadership bodies to implement professional regulations, standards and guidance to support the sector and the profession to implement the changes safely into practice. I hope that I have given a clear explanation of the rationale behind amending the 2012 Regulations and the 1968 Act to enable pharmacists to authorise pharmacy technicians to supervise the dispensing and final supply of medicines, to enable greater flexibility in the final supply of medicines when a pharmacist is unavailable and to allow pharmacy technicians to run hospital aseptic facilities. I therefore commend the regulations to the Committee and hope that hon. Members will join me in supporting them.”
“The measures allowing checked and bagged items to be handed out in the absence of the pharmacist will enter into force 28 days after this legislation is made, which means that patients and pharmacies can benefit almost immediately. The remaining measures—enabling new delegation powers for pharmacists to allow pharmacy technicians to supervise dispensing processes, and allowing pharmacy technicians to take charge of hospital aseptic facilities—will come into force on a date that not has not yet been set in law, but we are working with the sector towards a date one year after the legislation is made.”
“The proposed changes to the Medicines Act 1968 and the Human Medicines Regulations 2012 will remove those legal restrictions and represent a seismic shift in how pharmacies can operate, updating the law for modern practice and improving services for patients. The changes are permissive, not prescriptive, recognising that every pharmacy is different, with different levels of staff, qualifications and experience. Pharmacies that are ready to embrace these changes can do so, and those that are not, or that do not want to change how they practise, can continue as they are—but they would, of course, forgo the benefits that these amendments present. We propose a phased approach to implementation.”
“It is incredibly important that those services are fully staffed to deliver high-quality products in an increasingly complex area of modern medicine. Many of those facilities are staffed by highly educated and capable pharmacy technicians, but the law prevents NHS trusts from allowing those individuals to run such facilities. That is simply not right. We will enable suitably qualified and experienced registered pharmacy technicians to run those facilities. That will give the NHS and pharmacy contractors more flexibility in how they deploy their staff to deliver quality NHS pharmaceutical services. That proposal, like the first one, will not apply in Northern Ireland until pharmacy technicians become a registered profession there.”
“Under this legislation, we will allow a pharmacist to authorise any suitable member of the pharmacy team—for example, a pharmacy technician or pharmacy counter assistant—to hand out prescriptions in the absence of the pharmacist. That will be very helpful for prescriptions that have been clinically checked by the pharmacist, and where no further consultation is required between the patient and the pharmacist. This proposal will apply across the UK. Thirdly, and finally, the law currently states that hospital aseptic facilities can be run only by a pharmacist. However, pharmacists are not the only staff capable of running these facilities. They are highly specialised services delivering sterile medicines for cancer patients, premature babies and other vulnerable patients.”
“The provision will not apply in Northern Ireland until pharmacy technician becomes a registered profession there. At that point, we will work with the Department of Health in Northern Ireland to bring in these measures as soon as possible. Secondly, at present, medicines that have been checked by a pharmacist and are ready to be dispensed to a patient cannot be handed to them if the pharmacist is off site or uninterruptable. This understandably causes frustration for patients. I, like many Members of this House, have received complaints from constituents venting that frustration and demanding that the Government act.”
“Many of those activities can and should be delegated to registered pharmacy technicians, who are competent and trained to take more of a leading role in the dispensing of medicines. The draft order contains three core proposals. First, at the moment, a pharmacist must carry out or supervise all stages of the preparation, assembly, dispensing, sale and supply of pharmacy and prescription-only medicines. Case law has led to restrictive practice and different interpretations of the law. Under our first proposal, we will allow pharmacists to authorise a registered pharmacy technician to undertake or supervise those activities. That will mean the pharmacist no longer has to supervise each transaction and can therefore spend more time with patients and delivering clinical services.”
“I will now set out why this legislation is needed. In English community pharmacies alone, around 1.2 billion medicines are dispensed every year. Of those, around 75% to 80% are repeat prescriptions for long-term conditions. That number grows year on year, and we must continue to look at ways to make further efficiencies and remove legal barriers to modernising pharmacy practice. The dispensing of a medicine covers a number of processes, including the receipt of a prescription, the clinical and accuracy checks, the sourcing of the products, the preparation, assembly and supply of medicines, and advising the patient to ensure that they know how and when to take the medicine.”
“The order is another immediate and tangible change that will mean that patients get better care closer to their homes. We have increased community pharmacy funding to more than £3 billion and enacted legislation to increase the efficiency of dispensing medicines, including the extension of hub and spoke dispensing. Last month we launched a consultation on proposals that would give pharmacists flexibility to dispense an alternative product where the prescribed item is not available. We have also introduced the national patient prescription tracking service to enable patients to access and track their prescriptions online through the NHS app. That reduces the burden on busy GP and pharmacy teams, and it avoids having a patient queue at a pharmacy only to find that their prescription is not ready.”
“These changes have been in development for some time, and I am pleased that we are making them a reality. Before I go into the details of the draft order, I wish to recognise the importance of pharmacy services and the dedicated workforce across all settings, including hospitals, community pharmacy and care homes. Across the UK, there is a joint vision to fully realise the potential of pharmacy services to support better health outcomes and provide quicker access to care in our communities. All nations are committed to supporting the sector and the profession, and they have increased funding for these vital services against a backdrop of severe financial pressures. In England, we have hit the ground running in delivering our 10-year health plan.”
“I beg to move, That the Committee has considered the draft Human Medicines (Authorisation by Pharmacists and Supervision by Pharmacy Technicians) Order 2025. It is a real pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms McVey. The draft order, which was laid before Parliament on 17 July, broadly applies across the United Kingdom but, as I will explain, some of it does not, in practice, apply to Northern Ireland. It forms part of wider reform to modernise pharmacy regulation, cut red tape and make better use of the skill mix in pharmacy teams. The order has been developed with the Health Departments of the devolved Governments, and it has the support of the four chief pharmaceutical officers of the United Kingdom. I thank the sector and the profession for their input and engagement during the development of the legislation.”
“I could perhaps add to the letter that I have already promised to write to the shadow Minister, to give him an update on where exactly the discussions with Northern Ireland are now. Question put and agreed to .”
“There are tremendous cost pressures, which we are looking to equal out, across what pharmacy does, going from the core business of dispensing through to the fee structure for Pharmacy First. There are some issues around Pharmacy First. The take-up has not been as good as we would have liked it to be, and I think that is because of some errors that the previous Government made in setting the fee structure to incentivise Pharmacy First and really push take-up forward. One thing we are looking at with Pharmacy First is how to incentivise it to make it more effective. I understand from my officials that the discussions with Northern Ireland have gone well and are very positive. The Government there are very clear that they want to move in this direction, but certain hurdles still need to be crossed.”
“Once the legislation is in place, however, they would be able to take advantage of it. Therefore, pharmacists who do not have technicians can perhaps aspire to do things in this way, whereas at present even those who have technicians cannot do so. Pharmacy First is something we absolutely want to take forward. If we look at the 10-year plan and the three shifts, Pharmacy First supports the two key shifts from hospital to community and from sickness to prevention, in particular. Pharmacists are, in many ways, the front door of the NHS. They play a crucial role in people’s neighbourhoods and in the whole prevention agenda. We are still working with the teams to finalise the financial envelope for pharmacy, coming out of the spending review announced in June, and of course we have to get the balance right.”
“I thank the shadow Minister for those questions. As he rightly pointed out, and as I mentioned in my opening remarks, the length of the transition has not been defined in the legislation, but our aim is for it to be no longer than 12 months. I will follow up with my officials to check precisely where we are with that timeframe and whether it has been nailed down, or whether something more specific may have been agreed in the intervening period. I would be happy to write to him to clarify that point, if he is okay with that. The shadow Minister asked what happens in a pharmacy that does not have a technician. As I said, this legislation is not prescriptive; it is permissive. Frankly, this is something that those who have technicians can take advantage of, and those who do not will not be able to.”
“It is unacceptable that women are experiencing poor maternity care. An investigation has been launched to understand the underlying systemic issues and develop national recommendations so that women receive the care that they deserve. We are also taking immediate action to improve accountability and better identify safety concerns. That includes rolling out a programme to tackle discrimination and racism.”
“My hon. Friend is a strong campaigner on this issue for his constituents. The Care Quality Commission has committed to monitoring maternity services at Bedford hospitals closely, including through further inspections, to ensure that people receive safe care while improvements are implemented. The investigation will seek to understand the systemic issues behind why so many women, babies and families experience unacceptable care. The chair is working with families to finalise the terms of reference for the investigations and those will be published shortly.”
“I agree that it is vital to listen to those voices; it will not be possible to get to the bottom of why care is not of an acceptable standard without hearing those voices. I have heard what the hon. Lady has said about Donna Ockenden and I will certainly take that away to discuss with ministerial colleagues.”
“My hon. Friend is campaigning strongly for her constituents on this issue. We are establishing the maternity and neonatal national taskforce, which will develop a national plan to drive improvements across maternity and neonatal care. It will be chaired by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care and made up of a panel of experts, and family, charity and staff representatives. I was pleased to learn that my hon. Friend met Baroness Merron in June to discuss maternity care in Luton North.”
“I will absolutely raise the issue with colleagues in the Department and we will write to the hon. Lady urgently with the answers she is looking for.”
“I really do find it a bit rich that the Conservatives stand there and try to lecture us after the 14 years of neglect and incompetence that were the trademark of their time in government. Baroness Amos is chairing the independent maternity and neonatal investigation, which will be a rapid investigation with two core roles: to conduct urgent reviews by the end of this year of up to 10 trusts where there are specific issues; and to conduct a systemic investigation into maternity and neonatal care in England, to create one set of national actions to drive the improvements needed to ensure high-quality care and ensure that women are listened to. That is responsible government; that is trying to fix the mess that the Conservatives made after 14 years. The Conservatives would do well to actually support us in that.”
“That increase in funding is helping our clinicians to support more people, and to change and save lives.”
“Many across the Chamber have made that point, and I pay tribute to everyone who has contributed so powerfully. I also congratulate Arek and Claudia, who I know made outstanding contributions to drafting the speech made by my hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham and Penge (Liam Conlon). Through the 10-year health plan, the Government will ensure that those living with eating disorders are given the support they need. We will cut waiting times and ensure that people can access treatment and support earlier. Improving eating disorder services is a priority for the Government, and a fundamental part of our work to transform mental health services. Last financial year, we provided £106 million in funding for children’s eating disorder services, an increase of £10 million since 2023-24.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Desmond. I begin by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight West (Mr Quigley) on securing today’s debate and speaking so bravely and movingly about his family. I pay tribute to his work in the all-party parliamentary group on eating disorders, and I know that he and many other hon. Members present have worked tirelessly to advocate for those with eating disorders. Every death from an eating disorder is a tragedy. We have heard from hon. Members about the devastating effect of these conditions, both for patients and their loved ones. But we must be clear that eating disorders are not terminal illnesses. With the right treatment and support, recovery is possible.”
“I agree that Healthwatch did some important work, but what we are doing is changing the culture of how our NHS works. As the hon. Gentleman will have seen, we are abolishing NHS England. That is of a piece with our belief that proper leadership, proper accountability and proper management of a complex system such as our NHS, and particularly its interaction with ICBs and trusts, is about having a clear line of accountability from the Secretary of State through Ministers into the system and those operating at the coalface. We believe that if more layers are put between, and cut across, those lines of accountability, that does not actually drive better outcomes—it drives poorer performance. That is the approach we are taking to the entire system.”
“Improved care in the community will give young people early access to evidence-based treatment involving families and carers, thereby improving outcomes and preventing relapse. By preventing eating disorders from progressing into adulthood, we will build on our aim of raising the healthiest generation of children. We have also committed to expanding mental health support teams to reach full coverage in England. To date, we have expanded MHSTs to 52% of pupils; they are working hard in schools to support staff and students alike in meeting the mental health needs of children.”
“Ofcom now has the ability to investigate or carry out enforcement action against any site that will not abide by those codes. Hon. Members today have raised the need for early intervention to lower the numbers of hospital admissions from eating disorders. We know that the earlier the treatment is provided, the better the chance of recovery, and we are committed to ensuring that everyone with an eating disorder can access specialist help. As part of our mission to build an NHS that is fit for the future, there is a critical need to shift the treatment of eating disorders from hospital to community, including children’s community eating disorder services, crisis care services and intensive day-hospital or home-treatment services.”