Stephen Kinnock
MP for Aberafan Maesteg · Labour · United Kingdom
“I thank the shadow Secretary of State for her kind words and look forward to our exchanges across the Dispatch Box. I am ready to engage with her on getting the maximum benefits for the people of Wales.”
“I thank the right hon. Lady and look forward to working with her. My understanding is that there were challenges around the helicopter capability. Decisions were taken by Natural Resources Wales some time ago to change the way that the tendering for helicopter capability works. We certainly need to look at that.”
“I thank my right hon. Friend for his question. Like him, I pay tribute to all those involved in the collective and heroic response to the wildfires.”
“I thank the right hon. Lady for her question. Many of the ideas coming forward for devolving power right across our United Kingdom, beyond Cardiff Bay and Holyrood, are very exciting, and I look forward to exploring them with her.”
“Just to be clear, this is not about staying out of the issue; it is about respecting the devolution settlement, but being prepared to work constructively where we can in partnership with the Welsh Government. The hon.”
“I know about and welcome the right hon. Gentleman’s strong connections to Wales. I recognise the connectivity benefits that WSMR’s proposal could deliver, particularly for passengers in Wales and the west midlands.”
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“We have seen the biggest settlement in many years for our health and care system across the country. It is now up to the SNP Government in Edinburgh to absorb and deliver that funding in a way that will actually improve services in Scotland—something that we have not seen for a very long time under the misrule of the Scottish National party.”
“From the roundtable discussions, and from subsequent discussions we have been having with the sector, it is clear that we need to look at the long-term funding issue. We faced a cliff edge towards the end of last year. That is not the right way to do things. We must start getting the funding discussions moving so that, well in advance of the end of this financial year, the funding situation for the palliative and hospice sector is much clearer.”
“Children and young people with special educational needs are waiting too long for the NHS services that they need, in large part because local authorities have been hollowed out by 14 years of austerity. We are supporting earlier intervention through the partnerships for inclusion of neurodiversity in schools—PINS—programme, which is backed by £13 million of funding. NHS England has also launched a taskforce to look at how support can be improved for people with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. We look forward to its report later this year.”
“Our commitment to improving SEND conditions is universal. We are looking at this from the point of view of improving provision right across the country. I am very pleased that the PINS programme is making progress. I draw the hon. Lady’s attention to the early language support for every child—ELSEC—programme, in which nine pathfinder sites over two years will provide early identification, and targeted and universal support for children with speech, language and communication needs in early years and primary school settings. We are working very closely with colleagues across the Department for Education and NHS England on that.”
“I am working very closely with colleagues in the DFE on how we mainstream SEND provision more effectively, get more rapid education, health and care plans and autism diagnoses, and on a whole range of issues that require strong cross-party work. I would be happy to brief my hon. Friend on that separately.”
“I see what my hon. Friend did there, and she should brace herself as we drill down into this answer. The Conservative party is the cause of the rot: spending on NHS dentistry fell by a staggering 18% between 2010 and 2024, so it is little wonder that dentistry is on its knees. We will shortly set out plans to introduce supervised tooth brushing for three to five-year-olds in the most deprived communities, and we are working with the dental sector to implement our rescue plan.”
“It is vital that we have a palliative and end of life care service that works and is on a sustainable footing. I have had discussions with the sector. We want to ensure that we do not have the cliff edge that we had at the end of last year. The hon. Gentleman is right to point to this, and we will report back in due course.”
“I can reassure my hon. Friend on that point. We implemented the contract uplift on 29 January. Dentists will therefore be receiving their uplifted payments in March, backdated to 1 April 2024. For the first time in more than a decade, we have also increased payments for practices training a foundation dentist.”
“We are in negotiations about the future contract with the General Practitioners Committee England of the British Medical Association. Those negotiations are proceeding, and the right hon. Gentleman is right that we need serious reform; we will be pushing reforms through on that basis. On his point about the estate, we have a £102 million commitment on capital for the primary care estate, which I think will go some way towards reassuring him.”
“I wish my hon. Friend all the best with his efforts to get that dental school up and running. As for the need for serious reform, there is no perfect payment system, but we have to get a payment system in place that makes NHS dentistry attractive—at least as attractive as doing work in the private sector. We are working at pace on that, and I will report back on that as rapidly as possible.”
“Integrated care boards are responsible for providing mental health services to meet the needs of their local populations. As part of our plan for change, we will reduce delays and provide faster treatment. We are working with NHS England to transform mental health services, shift care from hospitals to local communities, and increase access to support for people across the country, including in rural areas.”
“I would be delighted to meet my hon. Friend so that we can get into a bit more detail about what is happening in his constituency, but he is absolutely right to point to the need for more and better community health services. That will be at the heart of our shift from hospital to community in the 10-year plan that we are delivering.”
“Friend the Member for Aylesbury set out clearly in her speech, and I will work with my officials to give them the detailed consideration that they deserve. Although it takes huge courage to speak out about such painful matters in public, I have always thought that that is a vital part of our public discourse, which is enriched when we bring our experiences to these debates. I again pay tribute to my hon. Friend and all hon. Members who have taken part in this debate. Question put and agreed to.”
“The Voluntary, Community and Social Enterprise Health and Wellbeing Alliance, managed by the Department of Health and Social Care, NHS England and the UK Health Security Agency, has sponsored a project, led by the Tommy’s and Sands Maternity Consortium, which explores experiences of perinatal suicide and self-harm and their risk factors. We have allocated funding to 79 organisations up and down the country from our £10 million suicide prevention fund over the two years to March 2025. Those organisations, many of which are grassroots and community-led, are delivering a broad and diverse range of activity that will prevent suicide and help save lives. I have taken careful note of the four proposals that my hon.”
“It includes funding for bespoke support for parents and carers with perinatal mental health difficulties, and for parents-infant relationships. This Government are committed to tackling suicide, which is one of the biggest killers in this country. My hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury makes a very good point about building awareness and good allyship in order to reduce suicide risk. The suicide prevention strategy targets pregnant women and new mothers as a priority group for additional support, so that fewer loved ones will go through the heartbreak of losing a friend or relative to suicide. More than 100 measures have been outlined in the strategy, aimed at saving lives, providing early intervention and supporting anyone going through the trauma of a crisis.”
“Some areas have health visitors who specialise in perinatal mental health to strengthen provision for families who need it. However, service provision can and must be made stronger. That is why we are working with partners to improve the current health visiting services, including by looking at how we can best improve support for parental mental health, and by ensuring that it is sustainable for an overstretched workforce. This Government want every child to have the very best start in life. Last month, we announced £126 million of funding until 2026 through the family hubs and Start for Life programme. That will provide a raft of support for families with babies, from pregnancy up to the age of two.”
“Many trusts have specialist bereavement midwives who are trained to care for and support parents and families who have suffered the loss of their baby. All trusts in England are signed up to the national bereavement care pathway, which covers a range of circumstances of baby loss, with the aim of offering every bereaved parent the high-quality, safe and sensitive care that they deserve. In October, the Government extended the baby loss certificate service to help mums and dads who go through the nightmare of a pregnancy loss. In addition, health visiting teams are well placed to provide mental health support to new parents. They can offer assessment at each contact, appropriate interventions and referrals when necessary.”
“The services are provided by multidisciplinary teams to cover every aspect of women’s health, often including a psychiatrist, nurses, mental health social workers, occupational health workers, health visitors, peer support workers and nursery nurses. The specialist perinatal mental health community workforce has almost doubled in the last five years. Furthermore, 165 mother and baby unit beds have been commissioned, 153 of which are currently operational. Mother and baby units provide in-patient care to women who experience severe mental health difficulties during and after pregnancy. When a mother goes through the heartbreak of losing her baby, we must do everything we can to support her through bereavement.”
“Those services are available for women with or at risk of mental health conditions who are planning a pregnancy, are pregnant or have a baby up to two years old. That care includes increased access to evidence-based psychological therapies. A record 62,723 women were reported to have accessed community perinatal mental health services and maternal mental health services in the 12 months to the end of November 2024. Women can be referred to services by any healthcare professional, including midwives, health visitors, GPs, hospital-based teams, mental health services and social workers. Self-referrals are accepted by some services. GPs also now deliver six to eight-week post-natal consultations that include a focus on perinatal mental health.”
“It is unacceptable that so many women are not receiving the maternal mental health care they need, and we are determined to change that. That is why NHS England’s three-year delivery plan for maternity and neonatal services commits to offering all women a personalised care and support plan, considering physical health, mental health and social complexities, with an updated risk assessment at every contact. Ten years ago, fewer than 15% of localities provided specialist perinatal mental health services for women with complex or severe conditions at the full level recommended in National Institute for Health and Care Excellence guidance, and more than 40% provided no service at all. Today, specialist perinatal mental health services are available in all 42 integrated care systems across England.”
“The figures show that the challenges are sobering, and many of the issues raised today are symptomatic of an NHS that is simply not addressing needs. Perinatal mental illness affects over a quarter of new and expectant mothers and covers a wide range of conditions. Research shows that in the UK around one in three women experience traumatic births, and one in 20 women every year develop post-traumatic stress disorder after giving birth. Between 2021 and 2023, 26 women died from mental health-related causes within the six weeks following pregnancy. Over a third of maternal deaths occurring between six weeks and one year after the end of pregnancy are from suicide, drugs, alcohol or other mental health-related causes.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Ms Furniss. I am so grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury (Laura Kyrke-Smith) for securing this debate, for raising a number of important issues and for making such a powerful and moving contribution. I was very saddened to hear of the utterly heartbreaking circumstances of her friend’s passing. I offer my sincere condolences to her and to Sophie’s family and loved ones. I am also thankful to all Members for their contributions, the sheer number of which, in such a short Westminster Hall debate, illustrates the importance of this issue. The Government take this matter extremely seriously, which is why are placing a renewed focus on mental health and suicide prevention, including for women during the perinatal period.”
“The Government are absolutely remaining neutral on the principle of the Bill, but it is our job to ensure that any Bill that passes through Parliament is workable and implementable as and when it gains Royal Assent. Baroness Falkner: Will there be a human rights compatibility assessment as well as a delegated powers memorandum? Those are the other things that Government-sponsored legislation would have contained.”
“Q I want to make a brief point of clarification, based on what both Baroness Falkner and Ms Hadi said. In the debate on the motion on the money resolution in Parliament last week, I stood at the Dispatch Box and confirmed that the Government will publish an impact assessment before Report stage. We are obviously working on that with officials. I will also add as a point of clarification that both myself and my ministerial colleague are working with the sponsor of the Bill to provide assistance and advice, purely on the workability and operational aspects of the Bill, and impacts of the Bill, should it gain Royal Assent. It is important for the purposes of this discussion that everybody is on the same page on that point.”
“Subsequently, I have been able to offer that level of assistance to each of the other states and territories that have gone after Western Australia, and then of course to the UK, Scotland and Jersey, which I have been working with quite a lot. There is a wonderful international, collaborative sense of information sharing and wanting to get this right, learning from experience and not reinventing the wheel. The vast majority of the laws that apply across the whole of Australia and New Zealand are quite similar, and they are similar to what you are planning to legislate for in the United Kingdom. A lot of fantastic groundwork has been laid already, and it can be done even in a challenging healthcare context, like covid or our resource limitations.”
“Approximately six months before the law was enacted—on reflection, that was probably not long enough, but covid was very much complicating everything at the time—they set up a working group with the clinical leads in the various health service provider organisations. We were then tasked with taking that broad overview and turning it into a service at the point of delivery, on the understanding that we understood the nuances and expectations of the different hospitals and health systems in which we operated. I will not lie: it was an enormous task. I leant very heavily on our wonderful Victorian colleagues who had gone first. I do not know what I would have done if I had been the first to pave the way.”
“Despite that, what happened at Department of Health level began first. The Department of Health set up an implementation leadership team and gathered specialists together from all across Western Australia in various different aspects. They had eight different workstreams looking at the eight different parts of the Act that they had to operationalise—the pharmacology, the substance and what that was going to look like, the doses and how it was going to be administered, the set-up of the pharmacy, and things like that. Each of those eight workstreams worked everything out at a Department of Health level.”
“Q I have a specific question about the period between the legislation passing in your Parliament and the commencement of its provisions and the implementation of voluntary assisted dying. Can you say a little more about what had to be done in that period: the institutional arrangements that were needed between the Act’s passage and its commencement, and the training, capacity building and practical measures that you had to put in place? Did you do that from a standing start, so that in that 18-month period you went from having no training and no institutional set-up to being ready to take the system forward? Dr Fellingham: Our law was passed on 19 December 2019 and came into effect on 1 July 2021. Ostensibly we had an 18-month period, but of course something fairly dramatic in health happened in 2020.”
“Thank you very much for that very comprehensive answer. Is there anything that our other guests would like to add? Dr Mewett: As I was on the very first implementation taskforce, running blind, I probably could not add much more, except to say that it can be done. One has to focus on the readiness of practitioners, the readiness of health services, the readiness of the population and a whole range of other issues, including the pharmacy service. We have a state-wide care navigator service, which assists patients and doctors in the space. We had to set up a lot of services, and that gave us the time to do so. It was very successful and very challenging, but fortunately we did not have covid in our way.”
“The Academy of Aid-in-Dying Medicine is now undertaking certification pathways, so each level of provider—social workers, chaplains, physicians and anyone else who might be involved in the aid-in-dying process—will be able to take these certifications. A more uniform education system will be available. We are just at the beginning of creating those, but it is very exciting, and we are very happy to have those out. A lot of resources are out there in the world already, in general, to train providers in how to do this well, and it would be really smart to have something in your Bill that outlines what the training should be, whether you will make it mandatory or voluntary and perhaps some sort of certification pathway.”
“What is available and the standard of care differ from state to state. Certainly, in the state of Washington, where I am the medical director of the organisation that is most largely involved with this, the bulk of my job is doing training, mentoring and shadowing. There is no exam at the end of that process, but there is certainly shadowing and a feedback process. I am also heavily involved with the Academy of Aid-in-Dying Medicine, which has been very active in creating professional training. We have a Journal of Aid-in-Dying Medicine , which is a peer-reviewed journal that puts out articles that are relevant to the topic.”
“Q I want to drill down a bit more on the question of training. Could you say a bit more about how the training works? Is it mandatory for everyone who takes a medical qualification to a certain standard? How many class hours are required? Is there an in-practice shadowing process? Is there an assessment process to verify that the person is qualified as a result of the training? I am just trying to get a better sense of the detail of the training. I will perhaps start with Dr Kaan. Dr Kaan: That is a really important question, because this is a really important topic in the United States. Our laws are very clear that participation is voluntary, so there is no such mandatory training across medical training in general. It is always voluntary. If a physician or provider wishes to have training, they can seek it out.”
“When we did a study on this of graduates from our programme who were continuing to offer assisted dying, 70% of the surveyed residents said that their assisted dying work was more rewarding to them than the rest of their primary care work—70% said that it was more rewarding. I want to come back to the notion that physicians would feel burdened or that this would be some sort of psychological negative to physicians practising it, because it is actually quite rewarding work. It has led me to be a better physician to all my patients because it has helped me with having these difficult end-of-life conversations with them. That was a bit of a twofer, sorry—I added that on there.”
“They then do this with multiple patients through the course of their residency, so when they graduate, they feel confident in being able to offer this care. As with most medical training, this should be included in that part of the training process. All the other things, such as pathways in continuing medical education, are very important for physicians out there in practice who want to start doing this, but really getting this into medical training at its roots is vital for normalising the practice. Speaking of which, something else I have heard a lot is that this might be distressing to physicians, or that physicians would not want to offer this care. I would like to say that 80% of our residents on our programme opt to receive this training.”
“Dr Spielvogel, I do not know whether you have anything new to add to that. If not, that is fine. Dr Spielvogel: Without repeating anything that Dr Kaan said, I was just going to say that in addition to my assisted dying hat, I am also the programme director for the family medicine residency programme, so my main job is actually training young physicians who are becoming what you would call GPs. We have instituted curricula as part of our residency programme here to train interested physicians in learning how to do assisted dying. We go through a whole process for that, including lectures, them shadowing me and me shadowing them, listening in on their conversations, giving them pointers and walking them through the steps of the process.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Vickers. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Lichfield (Dave Robertson) on introducing this important debate, and on the passionate, moving and powerful way in which he spoke, particularly about his mother. I would really like to thank him for sharing those personal experiences. I also thank every Member who has spoken today. We have heard really compelling accounts about access to speech and language therapy for both children and adults.”
“The importance of such services is not in doubt, nor is the life-changing impact that timely access to high-quality services can have, from helping a child to develop the right skills to engage with education to supporting adults to regain their ability to speak. Speech and language services are facing challenges, but sustainable, accessible and high-quality community health services are vital, and I will continue to work closely with NHS England, the Department of Health and Social Care and the Department for Education on this critical issue.”
“We are firmly committed to moving towards our vision for such a service, and community health services will be an essential building block of it—keeping people healthy at home and in their communities, and providing more preventive, proactive and personalised care. Later this year, we are going to trial neighbourhood health centres, which will bring together a range of services and will ensure that healthcare is closer to home and that patients receive the care they deserve. We have heard about the importance of adequate funding and timely access to speech and language therapy services for children and adults with communication and swallowing needs.”
“The interim programme evaluation is due to be published in February, at which point we can explore insights into the effectiveness of ELSEC delivery at a local level. Reporting data shows that therapy support teams have supported around 13,000 children so far, and just over 1,000 staff in settings have been upskilled in delivering interventions. That is an encouraging set of achievements, and I will continue to work with my ministerial colleagues and officials across my Department and the Department for Education to support this important programme. I referred earlier to our ambition to build a neighbourhood health service.”
“The therapy assistant roles have the potential to attract individuals to train to become speech and language therapists through the apprenticeship route. The ELSEC workforce model focuses on recruiting pre-qualification speech and language therapy support workers into the workforce to improve the capacity and knowledge of staff who support children with emerging or mild to moderate speech, language and communication needs in early years and school settings. That will be important, because we hear a lot about the challenges our workforce face in meeting the increasing demand for speech and language therapy. Across all community health services, increasing demand and workforce availability are frequently cited as the main reasons that systems are struggling to reduce waiting times and get on top of the demand.”
“Effective, user-centred services are invariably delivered by multidisciplinary teams that are based in the communities they serve. The early language and support for every child—ELSEC—programme provides an example of different professions coming together to support children and young people, with local authorities, schools and the health and care system working together in the community. In our view, that is a potential building block for how our neighbourhood health service should work. Nine regional pathfinder partnerships are trialling new ways of working to better identify and support children in early years settings and primary schools. We have asked the pathfinders to consider how to make the model sustainable after the project period.”
“This summer, we will publish a refreshed long-term workforce plan to deliver the transformed health service that we will build over the next decade and that will treat patients within the 18-week constitutional standard once again. We will ensure that the NHS has the right people in the right places, with the right skills to deliver the care that patients need when they need it. We must acknowledge that tackling this will take time, but we are committed to training the staff we need to ensure that patients are cared for by the right professionals and in a timely manner. Community health services, and speech and language therapies in particular, speak to the three seismic shifts that will drive our 10-year plan: shifting healthcare from hospitals to communities, focusing on prevention, and embracing digital care.”
“We want to remove the barriers to training in clinical roles, which is why eligible students get a non-repayable grant of £5,000 a year. Further financial support is also available for childcare, dual accommodation costs and travel, but we know that that does not go far enough. The training and retention of our talented NHS staff are absolutely key to our mission of rebuilding a health service that is fit for the future. A central part of the 10-year plan concerns our workforce and how we ensure that we train and provide the staff, technology and infrastructure that the NHS needs to care for patients across our communities.”
“Therapists are often dealing with complex long-term cases, requiring a resource-intensive approach to supporting their patients, and referral pathways are often complex. Those referral pathways, and the services offered, also vary regionally. As my hon. Friends pointed out, we are coming off the back of 14 years of failure, which have led to serious workforce challenges, and the reality is that we have a mountain to climb on recruitment and retention. The speech and language degree apprenticeship is now in its third year of delivery and offers an alternative pathway to the traditional degree route into a successful career as a speech and language therapist. We think that that has had a positive impact on recruitment, but much more needs to be done.”
“Waiting times for adults are not as bad as those for children and young people, but there were more than 23,000 adults on waiting lists for speech and language therapy in November 2024. We hear a lot about the increasing demand for speech and language therapy, and about the fact that our existing workforce are struggling to meet the increase in referrals—pretty much every hon. Member said that in the debate. The reason for the increase in waiting times is multifaceted. Although services are still recovering from the pandemic, there has also been an increase in demand, and analysis from the Royal College of Speech and Language Therapists shows that demand is increasing faster than the workforce are growing. Speech and language therapy covers a broad spectrum of support.”
“The plan sets out how the NHS aims to improve the quality and relevance of data, and the timeliness of its publication. It will improve our understanding of demand and capacity across community health services, including speech and language therapy, with high-quality data to generate helpful insight to shape interventions and improvements to services. Data and clear funding lines are not the only challenge facing speech and language services. Our children and young people are stuck on waiting lists, some for more than two years. More than 65,000 children and young people were on a waiting list for speech and language therapy in November 2024. We know that more than 23,000 have been on those waiting lists for longer than 18 weeks. That is simply too long.”
“A complex patchwork quilt of systems and processes needs to be gone through by the people who know best about what is required in their community—those at the coalface—to deliver the care that is needed. That said, I reassure hon. Members that the Government are committed to funding the NHS properly. We recently provided a £26 billion boost for health and social care at the Budget through the policies and choices that the Chancellor laid out. We have been clear that funding must go hand in hand with reform, and we will ensure that every penny of extra investment in the NHS is well spent. The community health services data plan, published by NHS England last year, goes some way to improving data about community health services.”
“NHS planning guidance sets priorities for systems, and the Secretary of State has confirmed that this key document will be published in due course—indeed, imminently. Each ICB will then commission the services they need for their local area, taking into account their annual budget, planning guidance and the wider needs of the population they cover. Local commissioners are responsible for ensuring that their offer is tailored to the local population and that their communities are able to access the specific support they need. NHS England continues to work with ICBs to develop their financial plans, to ensure that communities can access the healthcare support they need when they need it.”
“Both these things create challenges in clearly identifying specific funding streams for specific services. Speech and language therapy is generally commissioned locally by integrated care boards and in some cases by local authorities. Funding is allocated to ICBs by NHS England. The allocations process uses a statistical formula to make geographical distribution fair and objective, so that it more clearly reflects local healthcare needs and helps to reduce health inequalities. This process is independent of Government, and NHS England takes advice on the underlying formula from the independent Advisory Committee on Resource Allocation. NHS England is also continuing to work with ICBs to develop their financial plans.”
“For individuals who are unable to speak, speech and language therapists can design alternative communication systems. Moreover, as part of a wider multidisciplinary team, speech and language therapists also contribute to a young person’s education, health and care plan. A therapist will carry out a detailed assessment of an individual’s speech, language and communication abilities, which will help to determine the additional support they may need to access education. However, it is the key role that speech and language therapy plays in care and support pathways that creates complexity in funding and commissioning models for it. In some cases, full care pathways are commissioned as opposed to individual services within a particular pathway, while in some areas community health services are commissioned using block contracts.”