← LEADERSHIP TERMINAL

UK PARLIAMENT · FORMER

Mike Nesbitt

Strangford · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland

IN THEIR OWN WORDS

Think public service, wisdom, generosity and courtesy. Think integrity, insight and curiosity, the lack of which is a key criticism of the two public inquiry reports of recent days.

OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-06-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

I spoke during Members' statements earlier about the untimely passing of the Western Trust's chair, Dr Tom Frawley CBE. I repeat my condolences to his family, his friends and his many admirers.

OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-06-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

I absolutely share the Member's ambition to see people living in the community. The trusts provide a range of evidence-informed programmes for individuals who are awaiting assessment. For children and young people, early intervention teams deliver proactive needs-led programmes that are neurodiversity-affirming and trauma-informed.

OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-06-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Western Trust has assured me that it has undertaken a comprehensive early engagement exercise with stakeholders, involving all political parties, local businesses, service users, community groups, the Patient and Client Council (PCC), local media, community planning partners and Departments, including mine and D…

OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-06-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

The role played by social workers in delivering safeguarding and family support interventions is complex and challenging. The work frequently pivots on multidisciplinary collaboration, with parents and carers positioned as partners in the formulation and delivery of safeguarding and support plans.

OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-06-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

I fully recognise the impact of the current delays on individuals and families. The situation has arisen due to a combination of factors, including funding that falls short of objectively assessed need and previously missed opportunities to reform health and social care delivery.

OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-06-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

The complete record

Every one of 5,312 lines we hold for Mike Nesbitt, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 19 of 107.

  1. I sense that some think that the Department's plan is it, full stop and end of story. There is a lack of understanding — that is on us — about the fact that the trusts publish the operational plans. I believe that the Department's plan should be a framework from which the operational plans flow.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-20 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  2. However, publication of my intentions and expectations ahead of winter 2026-27 will be made available by the summer. I will set out priorities and expectations, focusing on distinguishing between what is unique about the pressures in winter compared with those year-round. It is important that we understand what we can and cannot predict and plan for ahead of winter. That will be followed by the publication of the trusts' winter delivery plans, which I want to see by the end of September. The trusts' plans will provide the detailed actions that will be taken to provide operational resilience throughout the anticipated extreme operating context of the winter months. I sense that we need to do more to communicate how those plans work and the interplay between them.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-20 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  3. We are already seeing improvements in some of the metrics compared with last year. We have seen a reduction in the number of 12-hour delays. In the Belfast Trust, there has been a 12·5% reduction in the year to date. The Northern Trust achieved an 8·5% reduction in December, and the Western Trust achieved an 8% reduction in December. In the Belfast Trust, there were over 800 fewer delays over two hours, and the Western Trust continues to have the best ambulance handover performance. We must hold those gains and recognise and applaud them, while, of course, building on them throughout the rest of the year. <BR /> <BR />That brings me to winter 2026. As I stand here today reflecting on the current position, I reiterate that planning for winter is a year-round process.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-20 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  4. <BR /> <BR />General practice has scaled capacity through additional sessions and support for residents in care homes, including through medical care plans. Hospitals retain the capability to open additional beds. The regional coordination centre supports the trusts and the Ambulance Service to manage the pressures. I have visited it, and, if the Committee has not done so, I certainly commend a visit to Knockbracken. <BR /> <BR />I know that Members want to see faster progress on ambulance handovers, the reduction in waiting times at EDs, the removal of corridor care and effective hospital discharge, and so do I. That is why the trusts have been asked to focus investment and effort where they yield the greatest demonstrable impact: redirection to alternative pathways, hospital flow and handover improvements at EDs.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-20 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  5. I simply say to him that, if he is going to accuse the Chief Nursing Officer and the Chief Medical Officer of allowing me to manipulate them for political purposes, I would like advance notice of that meeting, because I could sell tickets for it. <BR /> <BR />Our overarching plan stresses practical prevention measures such as the vaccination programmes. Community pharmacies are stepping forward through Pharmacy First, and we have public campaigns such as Living Well and "Stay well this winter". I know that Members said that vaccination rates amongst HSC staff are not particularly brilliant, and I do not disagree with that, but they are a lot better than they were last year. That improvement needs to be acknowledged, along with the fact that we are far from there yet.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-20 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  6. The £10 million was also spent on increasing ambulatory pathways, not least in cardiology and respiratory services, and early reviews. <BR /> <BR />The ambulance handovers reflect ED congestion, inpatient bed availability and the speed with which patients move through acute care. Recognising that, we adopted the whole-system approach. The big discussion workshops, led by our Chief Nursing Officer and Chief Medical Officer, brought together stakeholders from across Health and Social Care (HSC) to examine pressures and co-design practical responses. On the big discussion workshops, I note that Mr Donnelly attributes to me a degree of cynicism. It seems to me that he was implying that it was almost a political move.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-20 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  7. Therefore, it would be more appropriate to talk of "additional" winter pressures. <BR /> <BR />Attendances at EDs are influenced by urgent care alternatives, community pathways, primary care access and public health behaviours. Admissions depend on clinical decisions and alternatives such as same-day emergency care. On that basis, I point out that we have repurposed £10 million to try to deal with those pressures. That money has gone to enhancing Hospital at Home and providing more short-stay inpatient beds and more frailty assessments. In the "big discussion" that led to the plan, I really focused on frailty and care for the elderly. I believe that, given our growing and increasingly elderly population, if we can crack how we deliver care for the elderly, we will be a long way towards the reform that I would like to see.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-20 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  8. Handover delays over two hours fell significantly from 23 to 27 December, but then they did rise again at month's end. All trusts worked to increase discharges in advance of Christmas Day to maximise bed capacity. On Christmas Eve alone, trusts achieved 646 discharges versus 357 admissions — tangible evidence that targeted operational actions can enhance flow when they are properly planned and coordinated. Those facts matter not just because they demonstrate effort and impact but because they highlight the interplay of demand, capacity and flow. <BR /> <BR />Additional winter pressures are symptoms of whole-system dynamics. I noticed some Members talking about winter pressures. As of last year's experience, I am of the opinion that the pressures on EDs are 365 days a year.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-20 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  9. I will certainly take that back to the professionals who told me that it would take at least five years, and I will challenge them once again to justify their time frame. I read a report of Mr McGrath's in, I believe, 'Down News'. It was a terrible misrepresentation of the position, but be that as it may. <BR /> <BR />Let me briefly set out what we have observed over the recent period. Flu rates peaked early this season and then began to fall across all age groups leading into the Christmas period. That had an impact on our ability to work in ED. Despite that, there were reductions in the number of patients in ED awaiting admission and the number waiting over 12 hours once admitted in the run-up to Christmas and immediately after that. Ambulance arrivals exceeded the forecast between 24 and 30 December.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-20 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  10. Mr Deputy Speaker, thank you very much. I am very pleased to be engaged in a debate on this issue, because it is fundamental to try to deliver better outcomes for patients, service users and staff, and, indeed, to talk about the reset — the so-called shift left. <BR /> <BR />To start positively, I am pleased that all Members who contributed appeared to be agreeing with me and my analysis, which I came to after last year's additional winter pressures, that the problem is in community capacity. It is not in ED capacity; it is in community capacity. It is about the flow, and I am determined to address that flow by improving community capacity. <BR /> <BR />Mr McGrath said that he does not agree that it is going to take five years. I think that Mr McGuigan may have been in the same position.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-20 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  11. It is a tribute to Mickey that he was so across the fine detail. As Mr McNulty said, constituents really loved and appreciated his advice, because it was really good advice. <BR /> <BR />I do not want to cast Mickey in a two-dimensional sense; he was a three-dimensional person. I found him to be quite quiet in the corridors of this Building — friendly but quiet. If you took the time to speak to him and try to get to know him, you found a guy who was warm and could be very funny. As you said, Mr Speaker, he was fundamentally a community worker. This Building and Chamber were all the better and richer for him. I am sure that he will be sadly missed.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-19 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  12. On behalf of the Ulster Unionist Party, I offer sympathies and condolences to Mickey Brady's family, friends and political colleagues in Sinn Féin. <BR /> <BR />With certain people, just seeing their name or picture conjures up word association: with Mickey Brady, those words were "benefits" and "state entitlements". I have often said that we have grossly overcomplicated how we deliver large parts of government, not least health. However, the thing that fried my head, when I was first elected in 2011, was constituents coming to me with problems with their state entitlements, because it is so deeply complex. There are three exemplars — to use the First Minister's word — of those who are or were expert in it: Andy Allen, who is particularly good today; the late Professor Eileen Evason; and Mickey Brady.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-19 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  13. The Dublin Government are doing the same thing for their jurisdiction. Once those two scoping exercises are down on paper, we will come together and ask, "Are we better doing the all-Ireland service?". At that point, you look at the all-island workforce. There is a logic and a sequence to that workforce planning.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  14. Families can travel with the baby, but I understand that it is rare for them to do so, because the post-mortem, as you will understand, is a clinical process. There is no role for the families beyond waiting outside where the process is being undertaken. I believe that it is very rare. <BR /> <BR />We have a service-level agreement with Alder Hey, so, for it to reach the point at which it says, "English babies come first", as the Member described, there would have to be a break in the service-level agreement or it would have to run out. <BR /> <BR />I will respond to your other point about workforce planning. We are scoping what, we think, we would need if we were to have a dedicated service in Belfast for Northern Ireland — that would be my first preference — so that people do not have to travel even across the border.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  15. <BR /> <BR />As I come to my conclusion, I cannot be anything other than straightforward: there is no quick fix to this issue. Any future model, whether local or all-island, will require significant investment in training and service development to build the necessary expertise and capacity. Although the challenges are considerable, I thank Members for their contributions and reaffirm to them that I continue to have a commitment to do everything possible to explore viable options for improving those services for families at the most difficult time that they will ever face. In my determination, I will bear in mind not an empty Great Hall or Long Gallery but a Long Gallery filled with 200 families, representing just one year of babies whom we are sending across the water.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  16. The standardisation of the bereavement midwife role has been extended to the spring of this year. Training and education initiatives, including e-learning and video resources, along with bereavement support pathways, mandatory training and research projects, remain firmly on track for completion by March 2026. <BR /> <BR />Other work includes, as I said, the initial scoping of options for cross-border cooperation and for a less invasive post-mortem approach, which many Members mentioned. We are talking about the use of scans: taking them locally, where possible, and having them reviewed remotely. I think that we all agree that non-invasive techniques, which are in the foothills of development, are to be supported. We are moving forward with determination. Although there are challenges, the commitment across all partners remains strong.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  17. We have also put clear processes in place for parents who wish to accompany their baby for a post-mortem. That is a rare occurrence. Trusts have assured us that staff now have protected time to report and discuss results with those parents. Those are important steps forward. <BR /> <BR />There has, however, been a slight delay in achieving a number of recommendations, which has been caused by challenges that are often outside our control. That includes a short delay in rolling out the regional consent process and bereavement care guidance, where timescales have been impacted on by changes to national consent forms and the need to realign them with the agreed Northern Ireland consent form. I am pleased to say that that will be completed by the end of this month.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  18. I have also approved a draft action plan to support delivery against the recommendations, and work has commenced with local trusts, Alder Hey and other stakeholders to take forward the action plan. However, to be clear, that is an implementation plan for the recommendations; there is no separate implementation plan for the restoration of those services locally or on an all-island basis at this stage. We are still scoping our respective jurisdictions. <BR /> <BR />We have made strong progress in delivering key actions that truly matter to families and staff. The minimum dataset with Alder Hey is now agreed, key performance indicator measures are in place, and the service level agreement has been updated to include children up to 16 years of age.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  19. However, that has not consistently been the case, and it is clear that further work is required to improve the timeliness of post-mortem reports and the communication between trusts and families at every stage of the process. We need to enhance the clinical education of those involved and ensure that there is robust follow-up care for the parents. <BR /> <BR />As Members have noted, the report contains 21 recommendations, including enhancements to reporting, communication, clinical education and follow-up for parents. I have accepted all 21, and they have been shared with trust chief executives and the Northern Ireland Medical and Dental Training Agency. The report also concludes that, subject to those improvements, the current service remains the most appropriate and viable option for parents and families.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  20. <BR /> <BR />As those services move to more centralised models nationally, my priority is to ensure that bereaved parents continue to have access to reliable, timely and compassionate care through our current arrangements with Alder Hey and that those arrangements meet the highest standards of compassion and care that we would all wish. To that end, the Department has commissioned an independent evaluation, as many Members have mentioned, which was carried out by Queen's but supported by the Public Health Agency and guided by a stakeholder steering group that included two voluntary and community organisations, Sands and Cruse Bereavement Support. The evaluation has provided a largely reassuring assessment of the service at Alder Hey, with the majority of parents and staff generally positive about their experiences.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  21. Once we have done that, we will come together, contrast and compare and then, hopefully, decide on the best way forward, whether that is to have separate paediatric pathology services in Belfast and Dublin or to go for an all-island solution. I have no political or ideological skin in that game. The skin that I have in that game is what will deliver the best outcomes for the families who are suffering that unimaginable loss. As I said, it is clear from our conversations that Ireland does not currently have the capacity for themselves or to take on additional post-mortems from Northern Ireland.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  22. <BR /> <BR />However, as we have talked about capacity, let me make it clear: at no point in my discussions, particularly at the beginning with Minister Donnelly, was it the case that either he or I believed that the Republic had adequate capacity to provide paediatric pathology in that jurisdiction. Therefore, it was not a simple case of additionality to cater for Northern Ireland, but it was a case of, "He needs more, and I need more". To be clear: the current situation is that officials in the Health Departments in both jurisdictions are scoping out what they think that we need in Northern Ireland and what we think that the Republic needs down south.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  23. It is one of those rare occasions when money is not the issue: the issue is the workforce. One of my earliest actions as Minister was to raise that question with the former Minister for Health in the Government of Ireland, Minister Stephen Donnelly. In fact, the first time that I met him, the two things that were at the top of my agenda were paediatric pathology and a mother-and-baby unit. We had detailed discussions on both issues. On this issue particularly, Minister Donnelly was supportive. Likewise, his successor, Minister Jennifer Carroll MacNeill, has continued in that vein.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  24. A sustainable local service would require a team of at least three specialists alongside long-term training and retention strategies. I am interested in what Mr Gildernew said about needing a minimum of four for a population of seven million. Whatever the numbers are, it remains a challenge; one that is not unique to Northern Ireland but is felt across the UK and internationally. The need to train and retain more paediatric and perinatal pathologists over the next decade has been widely recognised as essential for successional planning and sustainability. <BR /> <BR />That makes the restoration of the former service here in Belfast, as the motion calls for, very challenging. That being the case, although it is far from straightforward, I am seeking to develop the service on an all-island basis.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  25. It is important to thank those families who have spoken about their experiences — not just positively but negatively — because we have to understand them if we are to maintain those high standards. <BR /> <BR />I will come on to the evaluation and action plan in a moment. In the meantime, it is clear to me that we would all like the situation to be different and to be able to remove the sea journey by restoring the service locally. I remain committed to exploring all possibilities, including an all-island service. It is important, however, that we ground this important discussion in what is feasible and realistic. Members are aware — it is well documented — that there is a global — not a local or national, but global — shortage of paediatric pathologists.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  26. <BR /> <BR />I acknowledge that, while Alder Hey is obviously not the optimum solution, it is the only one that we have at the moment. It is vital. It is a high-quality service, and it is one that I value because it ensures that families continue to have access to the full range of perinatal and paediatric pathology services. Since we started the service level agreement with Alder Hey, we have worked closely with local charities to try to ensure that every baby and every child who requires a post-mortem is treated with the utmost respect at all stages of the process and that the families receive the care, support and information — it is really important to communicate — that they need during those very traumatic circumstances. That having been said, I accept that there have been occasions when those standards have not been met.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  27. Thank you, Deputy Speaker, and I thank the signatories to the motion. I particularly acknowledge Philip McGuigan for setting the tone in his opening remarks by reminding us that it is not about systems or structures but about people and families. <BR /> <BR />Mr Donnelly gave a figure of just over 1,000. The statistics that I was given for Alder Hey over the past five years are remarkably consistent: it is in and around 200 babies per year so, over five years, we are up at 1,000. Can you imagine if we took one year's cohort and 200 families were beyond those doors in the Great Hall or upstairs in the Long Gallery? It is a pretty stark visual illustration of how deeply the problem runs. It is 200 babies a year, and there is no sign of that changing any time soon.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  28. I have no evidence to that effect. If the Member is talking about emergency general surgery in the South West Acute Hospital, yes, that is still subject to a temporary suspension and patients are diverted primarily to Altnagelvin. <BR /> <BR />We became aware some months ago of double examinations, whereby patients who had reported to and been assessed at the SWAH ED were assessed for a second time after being sent to Altnagelvin. By and large, that has stopped. It should have stopped totally. People should have only one assessment, which should be done at the SWAH.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  29. I do not have an update on developments on that for the Member. I am sure that he is aware that our capital budget is highly constrained, and one of the biggest pressures is the maintenance backlog. We really could use £1·6 billion, and we are getting far short of that. The first concern is keeping our buildings safe for service users, patients and staff. <BR /> <BR />I have been in the ED at Altnagelvin. It is the oldest of our type 1 EDs, and it looks and feels it, and that reflects really negatively on the patient experience. The Western Trust is putting significant investment into the current ED to try to make it a better experience for those who use it. I still want to see the new ED, but I am afraid that I cannot see it coming within the next five years.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  30. I have no idea. All I can say to the Member is that, when I took up post, I decided that I wanted the five trusts to work together and collaborate on financial management. Collaborating on financial management and discussing financial challenges is consistent with my direction of travel, so I hope that the Member is not trying to beat me up for the perceived failures of previous Ministers.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  31. Yes. It was set up by the permanent secretary. I am not minded to look at structural reform in Health and Social Care, despite the fact that I question whether we should have set up five geographic trusts in Northern Ireland. To go for structural reform would absorb so much energy and be a big distraction. <BR /> <BR />When Mike Farrar arrived, he knew that I had already been talking to the trusts and saying, "Stop competing, and start cooperating and collaborating". As part of that, we set up a committee in common to discuss common issues, perhaps, for example, around clinical issues. As an extension of that, Mike wanted that whole-systems financial unit to be set up, so that the trusts can work much more like a single body, which makes sense to me on every level.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  32. I will certainly take that away and have a discussion. As I said, I have a weekly catch-up meeting with the permanent secretary, and I am more than happy to put that issue on the agenda. However, it is not just about weight loss medication; a lot of cosmetic medications give me a lot of concern because, to my mind, they are not sufficiently robustly protected in legislation.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  33. With any prescription, we rely on the clinicians and the experts to make a clinical assessment and to do the right thing. The Member will be aware that, before we get to that point with GLP-1 medication, for example, bodies in England — the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency and the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence — will have examined those medications and either approved or not approved them. Therefore, by the time that they are on the market, we have a reasonable expectation that they have been approved and are safe, and then we rely on the prescribing clinicians to do the right thing.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  34. When we go into a hospital and allow ourselves to go under a general anaesthetic ahead of a procedure, we are trusting the doctors, nurses, clinicians and hospital administrators to keep us right. I would certainly expect that nobody involved in the trial would allow anything to happen that might endanger a young person's future.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  35. I do not wish to fall out with my colleague, but there was not a ban as such. If he is saying that a ban arose from the recommendations of the Cass report, I want to be clear that what the Baroness actually said was that there is not sufficient evidence to support the use of puberty blockers beyond a clinical trial, which is the position that we have come to. I, again, thank Executive colleagues for supporting me when I proposed that we joined the indefinite ban of the prescribing, by private prescribers, of puberty blockers to new patients, pending the outcome of the trial. <BR /> <BR />With regard to keeping people safe, I will be relying on clinicians to do the right thing, as we all do when we engage with Health and Social Care.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  36. The suggestion is to make the Northern Ireland service consistent with the English services, regardless of whether there is a decision to join the UK national provider network and research programme. Acceptance of recommendations 4 to 6 is required to enable Northern Ireland to join the UK national provider network and participate in the research programme, which we have already outlined our intention to do.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  37. I thank the Member for his question. He will be aware that, following concerns raised by Executive colleagues, I asked Baroness Cass to conduct an assessment of the service model proposed in Northern Ireland. A draft report has been submitted to my officials for consideration. The Baroness and her team have determined that the network model that currently exists between child and adolescent mental health services (CAMHS), Knowing Our Identity (KOI) and integrated social service processes is a key asset of the Northern Ireland approach, as is the chance to have a seamless interface across the age range. <BR /> <BR />Baroness Cass and her team have made six key recommendations. Recommendations 1 to 3 relate to workforce, integration with paediatric services and clinical leadership within the under-18 service.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  38. They are imaginative ways of trying to keep people out of emergency departments to relieve the pressure on EDs and create space for people to come in. <BR /> <BR />Let me tell the Member one other thing. Last week, I visited three EDs, which were all extremely busy, but I visited a fourth ED in the past month: Antrim Area Hospital emergency department. At 10.30 am on Christmas Day, two people were waiting in reception, and, on the far side, most of the cubicles were empty. My question is this: if that can be done on 25 December, why can it not be done on 25 January?

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  39. It has not failed, and I did not say that it would take five years to fix the Ambulance Service. I said that it could take five years to build the community capacity to ensure that we do not have so many people who are medically fit for discharge still in acute beds. When I was at the Ulster Hospital on Wednesday, there were 104 people who were medically fit for discharge but were not being discharged. By the way, at Lagan Valley Hospital, they told me that there were 35 such people, which is a smaller number but is 40% of the beds there. If you do not trust me, ask any of the chief execs whom I spoke to yesterday. <BR /> <BR />To build that community capacity will take time, but, in the meantime, a lot is being done: Phone First, urgent care centres and ambulatory centres.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  40. If that is uncomfortable for me, what is it like for her? What is it like for somebody in their 80s who has several very serious conditions to lie on a trolley in the back of an ambulance, unable even to get into the hospital? <BR /> <BR />The problem, which I discussed as recently as yesterday in a meeting with the chief execs of all five geographic trusts, is community capacity. We do not have enough community capacity. There are patients who are clinically, medically fit for discharge from our acute hospitals who are still in beds in those acute hospitals because we do not have beds in care homes or packages of care to send to them in their homes. We all agree on that, and we all agree that the fix could take five years or more.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  41. I am listening. Last Wednesday, I spent a few hours in an ambulance. We visited patients, and we took them to a couple of emergency departments. I listened carefully to the crew talk about their issues, and, indeed, during one handover period, I was able to talk to other crews. I was also able to talk to crews who were waiting for a handover in those emergency departments. <BR /> <BR />I am listening, and I am aware, but the Member should know that the solution is not easy. The Member has been to London, and we are hoping to adopt more of the London model. We are, by and large, bringing down wait times, but that is not to say that there are not examples of people waiting far, far, far too long. I met an elderly woman who was waiting in an ambulance outside one of the EDs last Wednesday.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  42. I am living in a practical world, and, effectively, I look to Big Brother in London to do that heavy lifting.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  43. For the large global pharmaceutical companies, Northern Ireland and the health and social care system are pretty small players — I hope that the Member will understand that — so, when it comes to those big-ticket issues, we rely on the health and social care system in London — on Secretary of State Streeting and his fellow Ministers — to do a lot of the heavy lifting. <BR /> <BR />We are concerned about getting the best medicines at the best price and to the patients who need them, and, yes, one of the obstacles to that are pharmaceutical companies that put their prices up. We have recently seen an example, with glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1) — weight-loss — injections, which shows that we have limited powers of persuasion, argument and negotiation in that context.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  44. I am aware of those concerns. I have had discussions with representatives of community pharmacies, who look fondly to the Scottish model. The Department and my officials do not believe that the read-across is just as community pharmacy would wish us to understand it. That is part of the ongoing debate that we have with GPs, surgeons and hospital trusts. It is part of the human condition to have different views on different topics. I will meet representatives of community pharmacy in the very near future to talk about the next phase of our engagement, particularly including the neighbourhood team. Certainly, if they wish to bring up claw-back and propose a better way of doing business, I am open to listening.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  45. I put a lot of store on non-medicinal social prescribing. In fact, we talked about MDTs in the answer to a previous question, and I would love it if we could add a social prescribing specialist to MDTs, or perhaps do so at a federation level. <BR /> <BR />Yes, conversations about the alternatives to medicines are ongoing. Pills and tablets obviously have their place, but, when it comes to mental health in particular, I remember my wife's episode of clinical depression. While medication was part of the cure for her, we both believe that the key to her recovery involved sitting in the kitchen with the community psychiatrist nurse and having conversations.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  46. For example, through work on melatonin, which is a medication used to treat sleep disorders in children, updated guidance produced with clinical specialists and strong engagement with GPs has led to more appropriate product choice and over £1·6 million in savings in the 2024-25 financial year on that project alone.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  47. There are a number of indicators that the strategic planning and performance group (SPPG) can gauge, using improvement in cost-effective prescribing as its test. For example, generic prescribing continues to perform strongly. Current rates, exceeding 82% across Northern Ireland, reflect consistent selection of clinically appropriate but lower-cost medicines, which helps to reduce unnecessary spend on branded equivalents. The prescribing decision support system in general practice continues to perform well through the active curation of messaging. The system delivered £2·69 million in savings in 2024-25, which demonstrated a return on investment of over 700%. In addition, targeted efficiency projects have delivered sustainable results.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  48. My Department already delivers significant efficiencies from the prescribing budget through the medicines optimisation regional efficiency programme. That saves around £20 million a year. The valuing medicines strategy sets out how my Department and the health and social care system will go further in helping to ensure the sustainable use of medicines and embed a culture of valuing medicines within HSC. GPs and other primary care prescribers in Northern Ireland are supported to choose cost-effective and clinically effective medicines.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  49. Last September, I launched Northern Ireland's first strategy focused on the sustainable use of medicines. My Department's valuing medicines strategy aims to support improvements in the use of medicines in Health and Social Care to ensure that they add value to health, that they are cost-effective and that they are environmentally sustainable.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD

  50. I can tell the Member, hand on heart, that I have had no discussions with people involved in the roll-out of MDTs who question their worth; quite the opposite.

    OFFICIAL REPORT, 2026-01-13 · READ THE OFFICIAL RECORD