Mike Nesbitt
Strangford · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Think public service, wisdom, generosity and courtesy. Think integrity, insight and curiosity, the lack of which is a key criticism of the two public inquiry reports of recent days.”
“I spoke during Members' statements earlier about the untimely passing of the Western Trust's chair, Dr Tom Frawley CBE. I repeat my condolences to his family, his friends and his many admirers.”
“I absolutely share the Member's ambition to see people living in the community. The trusts provide a range of evidence-informed programmes for individuals who are awaiting assessment. For children and young people, early intervention teams deliver proactive needs-led programmes that are neurodiversity-affirming and trauma-informed.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Western Trust has assured me that it has undertaken a comprehensive early engagement exercise with stakeholders, involving all political parties, local businesses, service users, community groups, the Patient and Client Council (PCC), local media, community planning partners and Departments, including mine and D…”
“The role played by social workers in delivering safeguarding and family support interventions is complex and challenging. The work frequently pivots on multidisciplinary collaboration, with parents and carers positioned as partners in the formulation and delivery of safeguarding and support plans.”
“I fully recognise the impact of the current delays on individuals and families. The situation has arisen due to a combination of factors, including funding that falls short of objectively assessed need and previously missed opportunities to reform health and social care delivery.”
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“I am not talking about HMS Caroline because it is about being British or unionist. If you visit, one of the storyboards that you will see states that 350 Irishmen lost their lives in the Battle of Jutland and 10,000 Irishmen died at sea during World War I. This is about all our communities, our past and our future. <BR /> <BR />The ship is critical as part of our maritime history links, as a tourist attraction and as a community asset. Anybody can hire it out and use the rooms for community meetings. I call for the Department for the Economy to think seriously about its future. There is a risk of it being towed away to the south of England. We could lose it, but we should not. The Economy Department should work with the Heritage Lottery Fund and the National Museum of the Royal Navy to secure HMS Caroline's future in Belfast.”
“HMS Caroline is an historic vessel. It is the last floating survivor of the Battle of Jutland in 1916, which was the last encounter between the German Imperial Navy and the British Grand Fleet. It has been docked here since 1924, but there is a risk to its future. It is here thanks to the National Museum of the Royal Navy, the Heritage Lottery Fund and Arlene Foster, who, as Enterprise Minister, found the money to make sure that it was here for the centenary of Jutland in 2016. <BR /> <BR />When you arrive on the ship, you are shown a video of the Battle of Jutland, which is an emotional experience, not least because it is projected not onto a screen but onto part of the hull of the ship. There is a moment when you are told that one of the major battle cruisers has been blown up; in an instant, 1,000 lives are lost.”
“I begin by offering my sympathy to the family of Sir David Amess and stand in solidarity with all elected representatives at this time. I echo Mr Clarke's congratulations to Mark Allen for his success in the Northern Ireland Open snooker competition yesterday. Let us also recall that Rory McIlroy won the CJ Cup in Nevada at the same time, which was his twentieth win on the PGA Tour and made him a lifetime member. That is some achievement. <BR /> <BR />Some time ago, the Ulster Unionist Party asked for a briefing on the future of HMS Caroline, which is moored at Queen's Island. On Friday, I had the pleasure of visiting it with two soldiers and a sailor: Andy Allen and Doug Beattie were the soldiers, and Steve Aiken was the sailor, although he kind of lost interest when he realised that there was no periscope to be found.”
“The First Minister referred to commitments that were made in New Decade, New Approach. On that basis, does he think that the court ruling makes a bill of rights more or less desirable?”
“When does the scheme go live? What are the exact qualifying criteria?”
“I am sorry, Mr Deputy Speaker. I was not watching the clock. Sadly, we will not support the motion, because it is too narrow.”
“The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development says that prices in the G20 group of major economies will grow faster than pre-pandemic for at least two more years. That is an issue that we should deal with.”
“I thank the Member for her point. Just because you do not succeed once does not mean that you should not try a second time. <BR /> <BR />We face a broader, deeper global problem. Recently, I listened to Miguel Patricio, the boss of Kraft Heinz — one of the biggest agri-food businesses in the United States — saying on the BBC that inflation is the problem across the board. The cost of ingredients such as cereals and oils has pushed global food prices to a 10-year high, according to the UN Food and Agriculture Organization. That is a problem that we need to be focused on: the fact that the production costs of raw materials, ranging from crops to vegetable oils, are rising. Measures to control the pandemic, as well as illness, have limited output and delivery. That is a problem that we want to deal with.”
“I give way to the Chair of the Economy Committee.”
“I thank the Member for his intervention. The final part of the motion certainly calls on the Government to rectify the situation. What I am saying is that I am giving you how it can be rectified, not just calling for it to be rectified: get the MAC to look at the issue.”
“I really do not think that the UK Government are unaware of the issues that we face. What the Ulster Unionist Party calls for is for the Economy Minister to engage with the migration advisory committee (MAC) about the need for the MAC urgently to broaden the categories of shortage occupation lists so that we can accommodate more workers, particularly in agri-food and haulage. I say to Mr O'Toole, who mentioned the social care sector, that the migration advisory committee is looking at the social care sector and at how it can fill the gaps and labour shortages there.”
“The motion calls on the Minister for the Economy to:”
“The leader of my party, Doug Beattie, and I recently travelled to meet some leading business people from the Republic of Ireland. They have skill shortages as well. Of course, they remain in the European Union with access to the EU 26 on the continent and free access around Britain and Ireland, yet they have shortages, and they look to us, our universities and our young people for the answers.”
“How many of our fellow citizens are about to be plunged into poverty and be unable to afford their energy? We were told that one gas provider that has already had a massive hike in prices is about to ask for another rise before Christmas of 40%: four zero per cent. It is anticipated that Power NI will ask for something in the region of 15% to be put on electricity bills in the new year. That is not about labour shortages. It is about other factors: the pandemic; the production of raw materials, which is failing globally; a 250% increase in the cost of wholesale gas; and inflation. <BR /> <BR />Yes, we have labour shortages, but they are not all linked to the problems of Brexit, because there are skill shortages in continental Europe. Mr Allister has just made the point about haulage drivers in Poland.”
“The Ulster Unionist Party will not support the motion, not because we are blind to the fact that there is an issue but because we believe that the motion is too narrow and is, frankly, founded in ideological opportunism. I ask Members to remind themselves that that comes from a man who was totally against Brexit, who was leader of the Ulster Unionist Party in 2016, who campaigned to remain and who warned of the negative consequences of leaving. <BR /> <BR />The fact is that our economy faces massive challenges and not just in skills and labour shortages. Last Friday, the Economy Committee had an urgent virtual briefing from the Utility Regulator on energy prices. It was frightening — frightening — particularly in the context of the loss of the £20 uplift in universal credit.”
“The spark of ability and creativity inside them may not lie in a classroom. They may find it on the sports field, on the stage or by playing a musical instrument. It is our duty to help those young people to find that spark wherever it originates and to turn it into a great forest fire of passion for learning and life. That is where the arts and the creative industries have a role to play. <BR /> <BR />I commend the motion and the amendment to the House.”
“Our children go to school, and we put a great emphasis on their achieving academically. We give them a target of five A* to C grades at GCSE level. That is fine, particularly if they are academic, but they may not be academic.”
“I welcome the fact that, in her letter, Minister Hargey, who apologies for not being here through illness — I again wish her a full and speedy recovery — has made it clear that she has absolutely no difficulty with our call for her to work with Executive colleagues to bring forward that 10-year strategy. Back in 2016, we called for an interdepartmental approach to this, involving not just the Department for Communities but the Department of Education, the Department for the Economy, the Department of Health and the Department of Justice. All have roles to play in bringing forward a coherent and inclusive 10-year strategy. <BR /> <BR />Kellie Armstrong talked about watching 'Shirley Valentine' just before COVID hit. I close with a quotation from Shirley Valentine, who said:”
“<BR /> <BR />Can we use art and the creative industries to help people live more fulfilled and enriched lives? I believe that we can. Many Members, including Paul Frew and Sinead McLaughlin, made that point during their contribution. I am struck by the fact that Mr Durkan made reference to the fact that the UK Government at one point talked about how Fatima should give up a career in the arts to rethink and retrain. That is simply not the way in which we want to go. <BR /> <BR />I will close with a reference to remarks made by Clare Bailey, who said that the arts can help us explore who we are. I could not agree more.”
“<BR /> <BR />Neither of our Sinn Féin contributors went quite so far as to admit that the £22 million coming out of Her Majesty's Treasury for COVID mitigations in the arts proves the point that it has never been more important for Northern Ireland to be part of the United Kingdom. That having been said, I would not expect them to do that. I can do it myself. <BR /> <BR />We need a long-term strategy for what the arts can do. I was struck by my colleague Steve Aiken's talking not just about a long-term strategy but about the difficulty in impressing on organisations such as Invest Northern Ireland that it is not all about foreign direct investment and that organic growth is equally important to our future. We need to turn STEM — science, technology, engineering and mathematics — into "STEAM" by adding reference to the arts.”
“Both Áine Murphy and Ciara Ferguson stressed the fact that one of Minister Hargey's first actions was to insist that 50% of the £12·9 million available to the arts be paid out up front. Áine Murphy did a good job of rehearsing all the actions that her Sinn Féin colleague Minister Hargey has taken over the past couple of years. Ciara Ferguson went as far as to acknowledge that the Barnett formula helped keep organisational doors open during the pandemic. She went on to namecheck a number of those organisations in her constituency, as did Stephen Dunne, who went so far as to claim ownership of Snow Patrol for North Down.”
“Mr Durkan also referenced the binge watching of TV series that has been going on during the pandemic. He did not tell us what he has been watching, but Áine Murphy did. She mentioned 'The Fall', but she could also have mentioned 'Line of Duty'. In mentioning such series, we might acknowledge how our finest actors, such as Jamie Dornan, Adrian Dunbar, Liam Neeson and Jimmy Whatshisname, are global ambassadors. Stephen Dunne referenced 'Game of Thrones'. We could add tourism to the list of sectors that benefit from investment in the arts. <BR /> <BR />Many Members were keen to point out that, although the pandemic has been a tough time, the Minister, Deirdre Hargey, has done what she can to try to mitigate the damage done.”
“That is why we need a long-term, 10-year strategy that finds the right balance, or certainly a much better balance than we have at present.”
“We have to think about a balance here because, as in sport, we need elite performers as well as mass participation events.”
“Secondly, there is the need for long-term funding and strategy. Again, Paula Bradley, Paul Frew, Steve Aiken and Sinead McLaughlin all mentioned that. Then there are the economic benefits — again, something that was stressed by Sinead McLaughlin, who also talked about the "pure joy". That is the final area — the personal benefits. I was very struck by what Mr Frew said about people following their dreams after the shock of the major industrial closures in his constituency. <BR /> <BR />Mr Durkan gave us a stark illustration of the geographic disparity in funding — £22 million for Belfast and £3 million for Derry/Londonderry. On the face of it, that is a very stark illustration of the fact that there is disparity and a need to level up regional funding. He also talked about organisations that were deemed too big to fail.”
“He was passionate in informing us that having the performing arts in his bars, restaurants and hotels was absolutely critical to his business and to making his venues attractive. It was not just about the drink and the food; the arts and the performing arts were absolutely vital. Yet compare what we do with neighbours with similar remits: Wales and the Republic of Ireland. We currently contribute £5·31 per head, while Wales contributes £10·03 and the Republic of Ireland contributes £12·79. I am sensing agreement in the Chamber that that is something of a false economy. <BR /> <BR />The debate has focused on four broad areas. There have been equality issues, and I thank Paula Bradley for mentioning the socio-economic to add to the geographic that is in the SDLP amendment, which my party will support.”
“I thank every Member who contributed to the debate; it is much appreciated. Many years ago, on my first visit to what was then the Arts Council headquarters at MacNeice House on the Malone Road, I was struck by the fireplace in the reception area. There was one of those big charity cheques which made clear that, for every pound that we invested in the arts and creative industries in Northern Ireland, we got a return of £7 or £8, I think it was. That was the multiplier effect in economic terms. <BR /> <BR />At the event that Clare Bailey mentioned, which took place a few years ago in the Long Gallery when we brought up art organisations and artists, one of the contributions that really struck me was from Bill Wolsey, who I think employs more people in hospitality than any other organisation in Northern Ireland.”
“I put it to the First Minister that there is one function that has not been able to carry on because of the absence of a Victims' Commissioner, and that is with regard to appointments to the Victims and Survivors Forum.”
“Has the First Minister given any thought to a proposal that I put on the table some time ago, which is that, in order to take some strain off the public purse, the institutions that should be contributing to redress could pay a lump sum up front, which could be refunded if it is too much?”
“I thank her for that, and I commend the motion to the House.”
“We are asking for an embedding of the arts in the next Programme for Government and a proper cross-cutting initiative between the Departments of Communities, Education, Economy, Health and Justice. In her letter, the Minister stated:”
“Ten years ago — the financial year 2010-11 — it was £26·5 million; the following year, it was down by £9 million to £17·5 million; halfway between then and now, 2015-16 and 2016-17, it was less than £10 million per annum; and the most recent figure, which is for 2020-21, taking out the COVID money of £22 million, is £10·79 million. Ten years ago, it was £26·58 million. If you go on the Bank of England reckoner, you will see that, in today's money, that £26·58 million is worth £34·5 million. It should be £34·5 million today just to stand still, but it is down to £10·79 million. <BR /> <BR />I understand that the Minister is absent through illness, and I wish her a speedy recovery. I acknowledge the letter that she wrote to me about bringing forward the motion.”
“The arts and creative industries is a big sector. According to the Arts Council of Northern Ireland (ACNI), 7,500 people are employed in the 102 organisations that it funds annually, but the Ulster University Economic Policy Centre says that the number of people working in arts, culture and heritage is 39,100. According to the Department for Communities, in 2013, the creative industries contributed £797 million to the economy. That is 2·4% of Northern Ireland's total gross value added. <BR /> <BR />I come now to the figures. If you flick through the annual reports of the Arts Council over the past 10 years, you will see consistent reporting of the amount of money that has been handed out in grant and aid to artists and artists' organisations.”
“and that speaks to the SDLP amendment. Outcome 3 is:”
“I am arguing that the two aspects of creating the sort of society that we want and delivering on the Programme for Government are not separate; they overlap, are intertwined and can come forward together. <BR /> <BR />It is a matter of regret, of course, that, as we come into the final half year of a five-year mandate, our current Programme for Government has the word "Draft" stamped on every page. It does, however, have 12 high-end outcomes, and I suggest that the arts and creative industries can help to contribute to no fewer than seven of them. Outcome 1 states:”
“That report shows that the amount of creative content being consumed across the UK is at an all-time high during this lockdown. It also shows that involvement in community arts helps to counter the effects of bereavement. Think of the many quilts, which, I am sure, every Member has seen, that have been put together by relatives of loved ones who were lost during our Troubles. Arts projects can, of course, also reduce isolation amongst older people. A recent Thrive and After the Interval survey of over 6,500 audience members showed that the well-being aspects of attending live events is what people missed most during the lockdown for COVID-19.”
“What about health and well-being? They, of course, are at the core of our draft Programme for Government and at the centre of plans for the 11 councils. We all seek truly vibrant communities where people will want to live and work and that are needed in order to ensure that people's lives are happier and healthier. We agree that participating in or attending a cultural event has a positive impact on mental health and well-being. In fact, there is a survey that says that those who attended a cultural event or place in the preceding 12 months are 60% more likely to report good health. The power of culture and the arts to unite people during lockdown has been captured in a report by the Creative Industries Policy and Evidence Centre and the Intellectual Property Office (IPO).”
“It found that participation in the arts improves academic attainment in secondary school-age students. It could increase the academic scores by, on average, 1% or 2%. It could improve preschool and primary school-age children's early literacy skills and increase the cognitive ability test scores by, on average, as much as between 16% and 19% above that of non-participants in art, all other things, of course, being equal.”
“I was talking, over the course of the weekend, with a friend who, in recent times, has had a very serious challenge from cancer, including a long spell in an acute hospital. We discussed the difference between waking up in that hospital ward with walls that are simply painted beige and walls that have art hanging from them. The fact is that, if there is art, it is stimulating. That stimulation not only aids recovery but can speed it up, thus releasing an acute bed for the next patient more quickly than if there were no art involved. <BR /> <BR />Can the arts help young people? I will range my remarks over a decade or so. In 2010, the Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) in England released a report on the impact of engagement with culture and sport, including a review of the impact on young people.”
“That could be measured in, for example, the quality of our public services, not least health and education, but also the prosperity of our people. We can have a broad definition of "prosperity" that goes beyond what is in your bank account and includes how you feel when you wake up in the morning and your sense of good physical and mental health and well-being. <BR /> <BR />I do not think that anybody can name me a civilisation that has flourished without cherishing the arts. I do not want to live in a society that is purely functional. I want to live in a society that is inspiring, aspirational and, frankly, joyous. The arts have a critical role to play in delivering on that. Can the arts also deliver on a Programme for Government? I believe that they can.”
“That represents more than 60% of jobs in museums, galleries and libraries, and almost half of the jobs in music, theatre and the visual arts. I also declare that I am an office-bearer on the all-party group on arts and creativity, which is chaired by Clare Bailey, and I chair the all-party group on sport and physical recreation, which may get a mention as we go along. <BR /> <BR />The motion is about two things. First, what sort of society do we want to build? Secondly, can arts and creativity help to deliver on a Programme for Government? In terms of the sort of society that we want to bequeath to our next generations, it seems that our priority, whatever our constitutional preference, has to be to make Northern Ireland work.”
“It gives me great pleasure to commend the motion to the House. I acknowledge the amendment that has been tabled by colleagues in the Social Democratic and Labour Party. I see no great injury in the amendment, but I will do its proposer the respect of listening to the argument before we come to the vote. <BR /> <BR />I have some declarations of interest to make. My 24-year-old son Christopher is a professional musician. He graduated with a very good degree in commercial music, only to find, within a year, that he was hit by the COVID implications. His two income streams of live performance and teaching dried up as if somebody had flicked a switch. The Ulster University's Economic Policy Centre estimates that between 12,000 and 16,000 people are in the same position and are vulnerable as a result of the impacts of COVID-19.”
“Does the Minister have any concerns about the performance of any third party engaged in supplying the service?”
“OK. I support the amendment and congratulate Mr McGlone, who has reimagined the honours list. Now you can be a knight, a lord, a baronet, or you can be "yer man".”
“The House would have to decide on that matter. We are giving you practical proposals to overcome that. Do I not get an extra minute, Mr Speaker?”
“— of the goods in the European Union, as Mr Aiken pointed out. I will give way very briefly.”
“They may want to do food deals with South America, for example. That has great implications, potentially very negative, for our agri-food business, but Mr Johnson may choose to do that. We are suggesting that we be a bit more focused. We talk about goods at risk. We are suggesting — it has now been accepted by some — that we can make legislative measures, such as saying that, if you deliberately send goods from GB through Northern Ireland into the European Union when you said that they were for consumption in Northern Ireland, you are committing a criminal offence and can be taken to court. <BR /> <BR />We propose that the UK Government will indemnify the European Union for any damage that may be caused from goods that are entering illegally, even though it is only 0·02% —”
“<BR /> <BR />I noted that Mr Harvey talked about the protocol doing damage to the Belfast Agreement of 1998. I simply remind him that his party spent some eight years negotiating it away in what was to become the St Andrews Agreement in 2006 and the St Andrews Act. The DUP has certainly come a long way if it now uses the Belfast Agreement to justify its position and argues that the agreement's fundamentals are so good. <BR /> <BR />Our amendment is about goods at risk of going from here into the European Union. That, it seems to me, makes enormous sense. We cannot impose on the UK Government restrictions on new trade deals that they may wish to do with countries beyond the European Union.”
“The reaction on social media was deep and fierce. People were absolutely enraged at the thought that I was suggesting that there could be a check on goods within the single European market, and yet the same people tolerate checks within the internal United Kingdom market. There is a little hypocrisy in that. <BR /> <BR />It is 2021, five years after the referendum, so I encourage those who remind us that Northern Ireland voted to remain that it was a single, UK-wide referendum. We all took our positions in 2016, and it would not have mattered if the Remain vote in Northern Ireland had hit the sort of percentage that we recorded in 1998 in favour of the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement. If the UK, generally and overall, had voted to leave, we would still be in the position of having left the EU.”
“I begin with an apology. I missed the start of the debate. I had a prior engagement elsewhere in the Building with some American students whom I was trying to persuade that our consociational system of government is near perfect and seldom leads to disputes or disagreement in the Chamber. I apologise for missing the opening speeches. However, I have had enough of a flavour of the debate to understand that positions on Brexit and associated issues have not changed much over the last number of years. <BR /> <BR />I understand that those issues run deep. Some time ago, perhaps a little mischievously, I suggested that, instead of a border down the Irish Sea, we could have one down the Celtic Sea and that checks could be made between Rosslare and the north-western seaports of continental Europe.”