Mike Nesbitt
Strangford · Ulster Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Think public service, wisdom, generosity and courtesy. Think integrity, insight and curiosity, the lack of which is a key criticism of the two public inquiry reports of recent days.”
“I spoke during Members' statements earlier about the untimely passing of the Western Trust's chair, Dr Tom Frawley CBE. I repeat my condolences to his family, his friends and his many admirers.”
“I absolutely share the Member's ambition to see people living in the community. The trusts provide a range of evidence-informed programmes for individuals who are awaiting assessment. For children and young people, early intervention teams deliver proactive needs-led programmes that are neurodiversity-affirming and trauma-informed.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Western Trust has assured me that it has undertaken a comprehensive early engagement exercise with stakeholders, involving all political parties, local businesses, service users, community groups, the Patient and Client Council (PCC), local media, community planning partners and Departments, including mine and D…”
“The role played by social workers in delivering safeguarding and family support interventions is complex and challenging. The work frequently pivots on multidisciplinary collaboration, with parents and carers positioned as partners in the formulation and delivery of safeguarding and support plans.”
“I fully recognise the impact of the current delays on individuals and families. The situation has arisen due to a combination of factors, including funding that falls short of objectively assessed need and previously missed opportunities to reform health and social care delivery.”
The complete record
Every one of 5,312 lines we hold for Mike Nesbitt, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 80 of 107.
“Plausible deniability did not work for Richard Nixon, and it will not work for the DUP”
“Well, now she knows how the 52% of us who voted Remain feel about Brexit”
“The First Minister has asked me to give way. My response is to quote her words back to her: no. <BR /> <BR />I did not support Brexit. I never sensed that it would deliver what the Brexiteers promised us. We have not taken back control. We did not leave as one, and we are now a place apart within the United Kingdom. <BR /> <BR />On 9 August 1974, Richard Nixon resigned as the 37th president of the United States. His tactic to try to excuse away the criminality of Watergate was to go for what he called "plausible deniability". I sense that the DUP is trying the same thing. The First Minister said that her party was consistent in its opposition to the protocol. However, on 2 October 2020, she called it a serious and sensible way forward. I also note that she said that it had been imposed on us.”
“The other issue is that, although Brexit is a long-term strategy, those who are delivering it — the Prime Minister and, sadly, the DUP — are short-term tacticians. On 9 June 2017, the DUP found itself holding the balance of power at Westminster. What was its price for propping up the Government? It was tactical — £1 billion for public services. It could have been strategic. It could have had locked-in guarantees about the outworkings of Brexit and the implications for Northern Ireland. Today, would you not swap that £1 billion for a better Brexit? Would that not be a better long-term solution for Northern Ireland?”
“Let us acknowledge their hurt but also listen to their positive asks for making the most of a bad deal. <BR /> <BR />In 2016, my party published 'A Vision for Northern Ireland outside the EU' and brought the framework strategy to the House for a debate. We lost that debate, which I regret because, in this debate, I have not heard one person who is anything other than unhappy with where we are today. What went wrong? <BR /> <BR />On one level, it went wrong because nobody thought Brexit through. The party to my left simply seemed to think that Brexit was the cure for all our problems, just as their partners in Stormont Castle seem to believe that a united Ireland is the panacea and the holy grail. Neither of them is right.”
“They make the argument that it must not be distributed via the Barnett formula because, if it is, all we will be able to afford is a new boat. It may be a big boat, but it is just a boat. It takes £40 million to modernise a port such as Portavogie. We must think carefully and lobby on that front. <BR /> <BR />Reading that document, I wondered whether, if the fishermen had known in June 2016 what they know today — that it would take four and a half years to get a deal and that the biggest promise in the deal would be to wait another five and a half years to hold on to the forlorn promise that we would finally take back control of our waters — they would have voted to leave. Not when the document states:”
“I do not intend to rehearse the contributions of speakers, given that there are so many winding-up speeches. I would like to focus on the impact of the trade and cooperation agreement on the fishing industry, which was decimated over the decades that we were bound by the common fisheries policy. That is why it believed it would be the poster boy for Brexit, quickly and clearly being seen to prosper, having left the European Union. <BR /> <BR />The industry's reaction is summarised in a briefing document in which the two representative bodies come together in an unprecedented manner as the Fishermen's Federation. I commend the document to the House, not least the asks that it makes of us, particularly on how the £100 million that Boris Johnson has promised for revitalising the UK fishing fleet is distributed.”
“The Minister may be aware that, elsewhere in the Strangford constituency, a major development at Rivenwood in Newtownards is under threat because of an unexpected £1 million bill for the developers due to a lack of sewerage infrastructure. Can the Minister detail how many planning applications are being withheld due to sewerage infrastructure being at or above capacity?”
“What assessments are being made of the potential implications for other organisations, not least the other emergency services?”
“I thank the First Minister. Given that the expression "Take back control" implies that we did not have control when we were members of the European Union, does she accept or understand that there are more restrictions now that we are out than there were when we were in?”
“One of the key themes is participation, representation and belonging. However, there is no great sign of that round this Chamber. Can the Minister detail the plans to promote elected representation?”
“I am sure that the Minister will join me in congratulating Nettlefield on surviving the many challenges that it has faced down the years. I understand that the Minister has visited West Winds Primary School, which is in the constituency that we both serve. Will he join me in congratulating the senior leadership team on the energy that it has brought to school life? Will he support that team's desire to see the same infrastructure improvements in that school as have been seen in other primary schools in the area in recent years?”
“I wonder whether the Minister can inform the House, either today or in writing, of the average amount paid out in recent years because of damage that is the responsibility of contractors.”
“The Minister on more than one occasion has referenced the fact that Debenhams has been an anchor tenant for a number of shopping centres in Northern Ireland. Can I ask the Minister for her assessment of the viability of those centres without an anchor tenant? What steps might she take to ensure that this news does not provoke further closures and job losses in smaller outlets?”
“I am still trying to get my head around the fact that Mr O'Dowd used a point of order to make it clear that points of order are out of order at this time. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Minister for his statement. I particularly welcome the appointment of Colin Jess to represent the social enterprise sector. It is also reassuring that the Minister of Finance's grasp of mathematics is sound enough to be able to identify how many questions the Committee Chair squeezed into his remarks. <BR /> <BR />Minister, you talked about social value and included the private sector. Will you expand your definition of social value and advise whether you intend to legislate and include that in a social value Act?”
“Given that we know the institutions that will be liable to contribute to redress, will the Minister consider asking them to make substantial deposits immediately, deposits that could be refunded if they had paid excessively? Such a scheme would take much of the pressure off the public purse.”
“Does the Minister agree with the interpretation of the House of Lords that the protocol suggests that, when it comes to security of supply for those who supply key sectors such as health, we will be subject to EU regulations rather than the will of the Executive?”
“I also heard a colleague of his who is on the Executive say that we need to react to the pandemic by being agile and flexible, but sometimes I do not think that we have been agile and flexible enough, particularly on the economy. <BR /> <BR />I finish by wishing the Minister and health service staff well as we continue the fight against this deadly disease.”
“If my rough maths is right, that means anything up to £15 million of a Barnett consequential. I hope that the Executive will ring-fence that for mental health services in Northern Ireland. The Chancellor apparently thinks that the additional money is needed particularly for young people in schools and for staff in the National Health Service, who are under the most unbelievable pressure. I do not know whether any other Members have spent a night in the emergency department of an acute hospital. The night that I did was a revelation. It was relentless demand met by unfailing professionalism and courtesy. <BR /> <BR />Mr Sheehan talked about a gold standard, and I agree with him.”
“Therefore, I know that the Minister has done more than most of his predecessors in that area. There has been the appointment already of an interim mental health champion. I have been on many a Zoom and virtual meeting with Professor Siobhan O'Neill, who keeps saying, "Do not judge me until you see what I have achieved at the end of my term". I tell her that I have already judged her, because she has already brought something really useful to the table: positive energy. That is something that people who suffer from poor mental health really appreciate from somebody in a position of leadership, like Siobhan O'Neill. <BR /> <BR />I also welcome the fact that it appears that, in the spending review on Wednesday, the Chancellor, Rishi Sunak, will announce another £500 million of funding for mental health in England.”
“Thank you, Mr Principal Deputy Speaker. <BR /> <BR />Yes. I am not saying that there are not issues. However, I have been in the Chamber for eight and a half years. We have debated consistently that there is a problem of underfunding in the National Health Service in this country and that we need to transform care and implement Bengoa. It comes round again and again. The Minister is entirely aware of the need to do things differently and, therefore, better. I accept that there are issues and that some of the issues may have been exacerbated by the pandemic, but I am also saying that it is not all bleak. Some services have continued, and I am a lucky recipient of one of them. <BR /> <BR />The Member will know that I have campaigned on mental health since I arrived in the Chamber eight and a half years ago.”
“<BR /> <BR />I acknowledge Mr Buckley's concern that the health service is turning into a COVID service at a cost to those with needs that relate to mental health, cancer and heart disease. However, I declare an interest here: in August, I had a procedure for heart disease. I do not believe that it was delayed by one hour, never mind a day, because of the focus on COVID-19 — nor, by the way, do I believe that I was fast-tracked because I am an MLA. The last that I heard about special treatment for MLAs was yesterday, when I was told that a there is a restaurant chain that, when it finally reopens, will be open to everybody but Members of the Legislative Assembly, who, to quote a famous elected politician, can go and eat "where the sun don't shine".”
“It has challenged all of us. With personal regret, I must acknowledge that some of us have come up short on occasion. It has challenged us and confused us. I welcome the Minister's reporting earlier that he and the First Minister and deputy First Minister are involved in talks about what we might call an "all-islands approach" to COVID over Christmas. That would be most welcome. The fact that the various jurisdictions are adopting multiple approaches surely goes to underline the fact that there are no right answers as such. What we have are options, many of which have significant upsides but all of which probably have downsides as well, so we follow the medical and scientific evidence. I thank Dr Michael McBride, Professor Ian Young and the Minister for so doing.”
“Who knew, at the start of the year, that we would need 20/20 vision to figure out the best way through this pandemic? Who knew, on 11 January, when we gathered in the Chamber to reform the Assembly and Executive that, come late November, we would be looking at a second lockdown? Who knew how difficult this would be? COVID-19 has given us a very sharp and unwelcome reminder of just how challenging it is to run a five-party coalition Government, but that, of course, is where we are.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Would he agree that, while we can debate all night what might be the best set of actions or policies, there is no debate that, sometimes, some actions are simply wrong.”
“I will be grateful for the Minister's assessment of what more might be done for businesses that are falling through the cracks. I was contacted by a business owner this morning who had missed out on the small business support scheme because they did not have a rates ID. However, they did not have a rates ID because it was a new business, and they did not get an assessment of rates in time. Will the Minister consider some sort of committee that might act as an appeals body to look at specific and exceptional circumstances like that?”
“I thank the Minister for that. Given that farmers here have to sign up to the service to bring goods from, say, Scotland into Northern Ireland, does he accept that that proves that, although we may all have joined the EEC as one, we are not all leaving the EU as one?”
“Earlier today, the First Minister agreed to look at the Women's Policy Group NI's document, 'Covid-19 Feminist Recovery Plan' and the Civil Service's reaction to it, and in particular what the group feels has been the failure to acknowledge the gender pay gap or the fact that 82% of part-time workers are female and therefore the most affected by COVID-19. Will the deputy First Minister join the First Minister in looking again at that document and its recommendations?”
“I recommend the document to the First Minister. I also recommend the response from the Civil Service. Will she address the criticisms of the Women's Policy Group to that response, particularly the denial of the fact that there is a gender pay gap and the lack of reference to women, given that 82% of part-time workers are female and are therefore most affected by COVID-19?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. Does the decision to extend the Loughs Agency's framework for emergencies by one year only to allow for a review suggest that there are concerns that the current framework is not fit for purpose?”
“I thank the Minister for his statement. I would be grateful if the Minister could provide some further detail on the LIFE projects referred to in paragraph 7.”
“That is 13 and a half unbroken years to put their differences aside and to recognise that, when the votes are counted, they are not opponents any more but partners in government. Coming to a point where, after 13 and a half years, they still cannot overcome difficulties for the greater good of the people, difficult as it is, is not good enough.”
“<BR /> <BR />I hear a fear expressed that at least one party of the Executive is trying to run down the clock until Thursday night at midnight, which is when some of the regulations fall. If the clock runs down, the pubs reopen. Well, the Finance Minister and I could agree to go to lunch in a pub on Friday in his constituency or mine. There is just one problem: there will be no food. The pubs, hotels and restaurants need lead-in times, and the lead-in times have gone for reopening on Friday. <BR /> <BR />I say, as a final thought — one that, I think, is reflective of how many people are thinking about us in the Chamber today — that the two parties that run the Executive out of Stormont Castle have had 13 and a half years to find a way to rub along together.”
“This morning, I heard a well-known radio host deride the Executive because they went home at 9.00 pm last night without an agreement. He made the point that, if his team were working on an investigation, it would work through the night until it was resolved. Well, there is a problem with the analogy because I do not think that his team splits in two, with one half saying, "We are taking the investigation down this road", and the other half of the investigative team saying, "Oh no, we are going in exactly the opposite direction". Unfortunately, that seems to be what is happening with our Executive today. As Mr Allister has said, it appears that there is not even agreement on when to meet, never mind agreement on the substantive points on the agenda.”
“I know that the Minister is trying hard, and maybe all of the Ministers in the Executive and everybody in the House is trying hard, but that does not mean that we are succeeding. I think that, if you were to ask the hospitality sector, it would say that we are failing. Much more widely, there are many people in our society who are looking at us today and saying, "You are failing", and some may be even going as far as to say, "You have failed. There is no way back". <BR /> <BR />Mr Frew makes the point that we need to scrutinise, particularly because there is no Opposition in the Chamber and no second revising Chamber, as there is in London and Dublin. The media may play a much more important scrutinising role in this country than they do in the Republic, England, Scotland and Wales because there is no Opposition or second Chamber.”
“As I have said before and will say again, it should be a multi-annual Budget and should be linked very carefully and closely to a Programme for Government. The Programme for Government, which still sits in draft form, has an overarching purpose to improve the well-being of all our people. That is what we need to do. <BR /> <BR />The architect of outcomes-based accountability in programmes for government, Mark Friedman, makes it clear that trying hard is not good enough.”
“What a lot of people fail to recognise is that, within two years of George Best's birth and two miles from where he was born, another sportsman was born. He was Mike Gibson, who the All Blacks, the best rugby players in the world, said was the best rugby footballer of his generation. Those men were born not only in a small regional capital city of the UK but in one quarter of that city. <BR /> <BR />I, certainly, commend to Members the thinking of the late professor of creativity Ken Robinson, who recognised that spark, which he called "the element", in children. We need to allow children to find that spark or element. We have to use the Budget to produce positive outcomes for people. We are debating the Budget in isolation.”
“I imagine that we could agree that, in that child, there is a spark of ability, creativity and talent. Our job as politicians is to create the environment where that child can explore that spark and find out what it is. <BR /> <BR />As a former Minister of Education, Mr O'Dowd might actually agree that our education system, which provides the schools that are the environment where children find out who they are, perhaps, puts too much emphasis on one particular form of intelligence: the academic. We know that there are multiple intelligences. In this country, we produce people who are brilliant at all sorts of things; great artists, musicians, actors, scientists and sportspeople. A lot of people will recognise that George Best was the best footballer of his generation; a man who was born in east Belfast in the 1940s.”
“I listened to Mr O'Dowd's speech earlier. His remarks focused on children who were so frightened that they would go hungry again that they hid food in their nappies in the Royal Belfast Hospital for Sick Children. We are a First World country. Of course, there are many measures of how successful a Government, an Executive and a society are, one of which is how well we look after children. Another is how well we look after elderly people, and, another, the most vulnerable in society. In fact, section 75 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998 specifies nine categories of people to whom we must pay particular attention. <BR /> <BR />I am sure that I have said this before: Mr O'Dowd and I could go now to the maternity unit of the Ulster Hospital round the corner and ask to see the latest child to be born into this country.”
“My question to the Minister concerns what is happening in Liverpool with rapid and mass testing, and I wonder whether he has any thoughts on whether those mechanisms could be deployed in Northern Ireland.”
“The Minister will be aware that three months ago, in August, the Executive appointed the Department of Justice to run the scheme. Has his Department had any indication from the Department of Justice on the resource requirements, the business plan or any other preparatory work for running the scheme?”
“I note that, in her concluding paragraph, the Minister referred to "differences in opinion and perspective": what was the most challenging thing that she heard?”
“Given that the pandemic may be with us for a long time and that there may not be just a first and second wave but more to come, I encourage the Executive to do more to ensure that the data sets are in place so that processes can be activated as quickly as possible. <BR /> <BR />Thank you for allowing me some latitude, Mr Deputy Speaker, but the point is that the health service needs to be supported not only to fight COVID-19 but to prepare for the radical reforms needed to best serve the health of the people of this country. Once again, I thank all those who have helped me with my cardiovascular issues in recent months.”
“He said that businesses in the hospitality sector around Derry were informed that their claims would be dealt with first and that it would all be done in short order, seven working days after they were notified that the money was to go into their accounts, but here they are, having been told that they were successful in mid-October, still waiting for the money. In fairness to the Finance Minister, I sent him an email last night, and he has already responded to say that there have been difficulties getting the right data out of some councils, the Department is working on it and he believes that the pipeline for grant aid is now open. I thank him for doing that, but the point of this morning's caller remains: surely, we should have ironed out all those data problems in advance.”
“His point was that this is the second wave that we all knew was coming. His question was this: why did Departments, such as the Department for the Economy, not make sure that they had their data sets and processing arrangements in order so that, when they came up with a scheme to grant-aid businesses, that could be processed quickly and the money delivered? <BR /> <BR />That follows a lengthy email that I received yesterday, again with regard to regulation 8, relating to hospitality in the Derry City and Strabane District Council area. The sender made the point that they now face the sixth week of having received none of the financial help — the £400 to £600 per week — promised by the Finance Minister.”
“Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I understand your desire for me to do that. <BR /> <BR />I have a couple more points to make, if I may. Mr Buckley and Mr Middleton referred to the effects, particularly under regulation 8, of the impact on businesses, including those in the hospitality sector. This morning, upstairs in my office, I took a phone call from somebody who did not tell me who he was except that he was a businessperson. I did not ask his constituency or whether he voted, because those are not the important issues. His issue was that he had had to close up his business in mid-March and had not been able to reopen since. He said that he vacillates between frustration because he thinks that we are useless and anger and despair because he thinks that we are useless.”
“I get the argument that it takes resource and takes professionals out of their day jobs to put them into a Nightingale hospital where, perhaps, they will sit unoccupied, but those are tensions that we cannot resolve, not if we want to be prepared for worst-case scenarios.”
“<BR /> <BR />Let us also recall that, 11 years ago, there was a global pandemic: swine flu. Michael McGimpsey was in charge, and what did he do? He ensured that there was a vaccine for every citizen in this country. What happened? The vaccine was not needed. We did not need anything like a million vaccines. What did the House do? It tortured him for wasting millions of pounds. What if we had needed it? Did we learn the lesson from that? I am not sure that we did. I have been in the Chamber this year when some Members have tried to torture the current Health Minister over the Nightingale hospitals because the beds were not needed in the first wave. What if they are needed?”
“<BR /> <BR />Mr Sheehan made the good point that, for at least 10 years, the health service has suffered from underinvestment. We have an Ulster Unionist Minister of Health today. Ten years ago, we had an Ulster Unionist Minister of Health. Michael McGimpsey was able to forecast years ahead, to within three decimal points, in billions of pounds, what the health service needed to stand still, and the House did not vote through that money; in fact, the House tortured Michael McGimpsey. It brought him back again and again for debates, making sure that he spent as much time as possible in the Chamber, which meant that he had as little time as possible to do the job of being a Minister in his office. The House absolutely tortured him, but he was right, not least about the finances.”
“I am sure that it is for the Health Committee to test the Chief Medical Officer and the Minister of Health by asking, "Are those four are right, or are we are sticking with our Chief Medical Officer?". I do not think that it is for the House, particularly those in it who want to take a view contrary to the path that we are on, simply to say, "Aha! Here is a handy bit of evidence: a new letter from four people who call themselves consultants, because they are, so I will use that to justify my path". That is not the right thing to do or the way in which scrutiny should work. We should test the Minister. The Minister should test the Chief Medical Officer. The Committee should test the CMO. We should follow the right medical and scientific advice.”