Rachel Woods
North Down · Green Party · Northern Ireland
“We have to get it right, but we are not starting from scratch. We only have to look across the water or down the road to the public and private sectors that already offer that type of leave. <BR /> <BR />I now turn to the comments of other Members.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is time to end the coercive control that criminal gangs have over our communities. Victim and survivors' voices must be heard and reflected in our laws and policies. Minority groups should not be sidelined or silenced. We need to educate from a very young age.”
“There is no direct cost to employers from safe leave, and it is needed to deal with the issues related to abuse. We need to destigmatise abuse and tackle root causes, misogyny and toxic masculinity. <BR /> <BR />I agree with Mr Weir's comments. We should not need to have the protections in place.”
“I thank every Member who spoke during the debate for their comments and support for the Bill. I will address the Minister's comments first. I thank him for being here, and I am glad that he is feeling better. <BR /> <BR />The Assembly cares, and we need to work constructively together to help.”
“<BR /> <BR />As I said at Second Stage, period poverty must be viewed through the lens of children's rights and how the Bill meets our obligations under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC).”
“<BR /> <BR />I take this opportunity at Final Stage to thank officials and members of the councils who took the time to discuss with me their policies, the background to them and how they are working in practice: thank you for everything that you are doing for your staff, and I hope that, should the Bill pass, your regional Parliaments an…”
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“PSNI figures for my constituency of North Down show that the number of domestic abuse-related crimes recorded jumped from 546 in 2020 to 692 in 2021, which is an increase of 146. <BR /> <BR />It is our job to ensure that all the protections that we can have in place are in place. I thank the Members who have spoken in favour of this today and thank the Minister for tabling the amendments, which will ensure that the Bill, when it becomes law, is implemented as quickly and comprehensively as possible.”
“It can be used for moving house, attending legal appointments, going to court, resettling children or other family members, seeking advice and help from support services, sorting out finances, and organising the logistics and transition from an abusive relationship to a place of safety. <BR /> <BR />I remind Members that the PSNI recorded over 31,000 incidents of domestic abuse in the last year alone, and that is just the tip of the iceberg — those are the ones that were reported. The number of crimes recorded — over 19,000 — is the highest since records began and nearly twice the level recorded in 2005, representing one in five of all crimes recorded in the last year.”
“We cannot have a situation where this becomes law and, because of political instability, the provisions of the Bill are not commenced and victims and survivors of domestic abuse cannot avail themselves of their legal entitlement to safe leave. <BR /> <BR />In conclusion, this Bill is about saving lives. It provides victims and survivors with a pathway to safety. It protects them in the workplace from the effects of abuse by providing at least 10 days' paid safe leave. It can be used to deal with emergency situations. It can allow victims to get medical care and mental health care.”
“Again, on that basis, I am content to support the amendment — the new clause — to ensure that the Department has the necessary powers and flexibility to give full effect to the legislation. <BR /> <BR />Lastly, amendment Nos 31 and 32 change the commencement provisions to capture the reporting requirement and guidance clause, as well as moving the remaining clauses to come into force the day after Royal Assent. I welcome the Minister's commitment in his opening remarks that these regulations will be commenced as quickly as possible. I urge him to ensure that the Department is sufficiently enabled to proceed with this work in the absence of an Executive by writing to declare such to the permanent secretary in the Department for the Economy to provide that necessary cover, should it be required following the election.”
“Notwithstanding those issues, it is essential that the Department assesses the effectiveness of the regulations, and, again, I am looking for a clear assurance from the Minister that that is provided for in amendment No 26 and that that work will happen. On that basis, I am content to accept amendment No 27. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 30 creates new clause 3A to expand the regulation-making powers of the Department to cover modifying provisions of the 1996 Order and any transitional, transitory or savings provisions. It appears to relate to consequential changes to other areas of law as a result of the Act and/or in order to give full effect to the Act. Those regulations will be subject to negative resolution unless they amend primary legislation, which will be subject to a resolution of the Assembly.”
“Whilst those changes water down the original wording of the clause, I am content to support the amendment at this stage, based on the logic that the Department will produce more comprehensive data and a better assessment of the operation of the regulations if it is given the time to do so. That is my hope, and I am sure that the Minister will provide an assurance to that effect. <BR /> <BR />I have concerns about amendment No 27, which removes the duty to include in the report information about compliance and the impact on victims of domestic abuse, but I understand the rationale. The Department cannot compel employers to provide information, and collecting and reporting on very sensitive information provided by victims presents many challenges.”
“I understand that that might be necessary when it comes to issues like contracts and that not all aspects of the regulations may apply to workers, but I ask the Minister, when he is summing up, for some further clarity on the kind of provisions from which his Department may look to exclude workers and the thinking behind that. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 26 changes the reporting requirement from every financial year to one year after the regulations are commenced and then every three years after that. That report must be laid in the Assembly, and the Department must consult those affected by the legislation.”
“<BR /> <BR />Amendment Nos 19 and 20 clarify issues surrounding extending the right to safe leave to workers and expand the power of the Department to modify the application of the regulations to workers, including”
“<BR /> <BR />Amendment No 9 will strengthen the prohibition on length-of-service conditions so that employers are not able to impose any such conditions. I welcome the added clarity brought by amendment No 9 and fully support it. We should be absolutely clear that it would not be appropriate for the Department or an employer to impose such conditions. That also came through loud and clear during our consultation. <BR /> <BR />Amendment Nos 17 and 18 are connected and provide for more extensive regulation-making powers that cover enforcement, including specific references to seeking recourse through an industrial tribunal. I fully support more comprehensive provisions in that regard and welcome the fact that the Department is taking time to consider the processes involved when an employer fails to comply with the regulations.”
“I understand that the amendment is based on some concerns about how the 2021 Act may affect the operation of the regulations, and the amendment appears to give the Department some freedom to expand or modify the definition. I welcome that, so long as it is used to ensure that victims and survivors are not excluded unnecessarily. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 5 will simply add clarity by stating that the list of issues related to domestic abuse can be expanded. That is welcome, as it gives the Department explicit powers to specify other matters that may be relevant when safe leave is required. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 6 will add clarity to the meaning of the leave year and states that safe leave does not have to be taken as a single continuous period. That was entirely the intention of the Bill at Second Stage.”
“I dedicate the Consideration Stage to every victim of domestic abuse who has ever felt trapped without options and to every person who has had an employee or workmate who was being abused but did not know how to help them. <BR /> <BR />The details of the amendments that the Minister has tabled have already been discussed in detail. I broadly welcome them, as they will ensure that the Bill is technically sound and can be implemented in full. I want to discuss a few of them, however. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 2 will change the definition of a victim of domestic abuse from being explicitly tied to the definition in the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act 2021 to a broader view of an employee who is being subjected to or has been subjected to abusive behaviour by a person to whom the employee is connected.”
“At the outset, I thank the Minister and all the Members who spoke to the amendments before the House and made suggestions. I am happy to discuss those suggestions and take them on board between this stage and Further Consideration Stage. I wish the Minister all the best in his recovery. I am sorry that he is not in the Chamber today. I thank the private Members' Bills team and Clerks in the Bill Office and the departmental officials, who have spent considerable time examining the Bill in detail and developing the amendments, most of which, as we have heard, are technical and will ensure that the regulations that introduce safe leave are fit for purpose. I also thank from the bottom of my heart my researcher for his incredible work to get us to this stage.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. I raised this point earlier at Committee. The advice that we were given today by the Attorney General was based on the drafting of the amendments, not the actual contents.”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. Will the Minister outline how her Department is assessing risk in those situations?”
“Those are matters that I raised at Consideration Stage. The criminal investigation process, which means the prosecution, the information and the evidence, means that the case would still be required to happen. <BR /> <BR />I fully support the review mechanism, and all those issues should of course be kept under constant review. I welcome the Committee considering my request on the matter favourably, which was previously raised by the children's sector. My view is that the evidence of risk is there and that we need to close those loopholes. I accept that amendment Nos 19 and 20 have pros and cons from the Department's perspective, but the most important thing is that the work is done comprehensively and expeditiously. That is why I will support the Committee's amendment.”
“I do not want to legislate against children's rights; indeed, we need fuller implementation of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC), not less. <BR /> <BR />I, like other Committee members, want to protect young people from abuse and to close those loopholes. I do not want to see young people without protection because of arbitrary distinctions concerning the type of activity or setting. I do not accept that the amendments will criminalise healthy relationships between young people, and I do not accept that they could be challenged under article 8 any more than the clause that is in the Bill could be challenged under article 8. We are talking about child sexual exploitation, and, as I said, all the factors surrounding the offence still apply: investigation; evidence gathering; prosecution tests; and so on.”
“I thank the Minister for her intervention. The point that I will continue to come back to is that an abuse of trust is still happening. This is not about increasing the age of consent in any way. This is child sexual exploitation, and that position of trust is still there. I am more than happy to debate the matter and to look in much more detail at the group setting versus the individual. A one-to-one relationship is going on in both those scenarios, so I do not know that argument. For me, it does not stack up. There is still a one-to-one relationship between the person in the position of trust and the child. That is where I am coming from. <BR /> <BR />I do not want to raise the age of consent by stealth. I do not in any way want to make 18 the age of consent, and I have said that throughout the discussions on the Bill.”
“<BR /> <BR />The evidence of risk is there for me, and I have direct knowledge of a case of an abuse of trust in relation to a uniformed youth organisation. It would have been captured in the Committee's amendment Nos 15 and 16 but not by the Bill as it stands, as the loophole would remain. Fundamentally, what is the difference between a scout leader and a sports coach when it comes to evidence of risk? Is there a scenario where a one-to-one session with a music teacher is less risky than with a religious leader? What is the difference between the article 8 rights that are causing the issue with widening the scope? Why do they not apply to religious or sports settings? Are the same rights not potentially engaged? How are they different?”
“Are we to believe that a position of trust in Jersey, in the scenarios that I outlined, is different from one in Northern Ireland, notwithstanding the different drafting and wording of the scenarios in amendment Nos 14 to 18 on the Marshalled List? <BR /> <BR />The second point is that we were told that evidence of abuse would not necessarily be required for changes to the scope of the provisions and that evidence of risk would be sufficient. Again, that begs a fundamental question: in those jurisdictions where there is an option for a broader definition of the position of trust in those scenarios, have they encountered evidence of risk that we have not? Is the risk in this place lower than in other jurisdictions? The settings and activities captured in the Committee's amendments are there because they pose a considerable risk.”
“I draw the Assembly's attention back to condition two. Does this jurisdiction have a broader base of evidence to suggest that this form of abuse happens beyond simply statutory, sport and religious settings? In Jersey, this is covered in condition two:”
“or — this is paragraph (b),not an additional subsection —”
“in pursuance of requirements imposed by the courts or in exercise of functions conferred by a legal order. Three: the adult "regularly has unsupervised contact" with the child in the exercise of various statutory duties. Granted, that is already covered. Four: the adult is an officer with responsibilities delegated to them by ministerial powers and functions conferred by various laws. Five: the adult is appointed as the legal guardian of the child or the child's "tuteur", a person who is responsible for the administration of property. <BR /> <BR />The Jersey law goes on, in section 20, to guide interpretation of those conditions. It says:”
“In the Sexual Offences (Jersey) Law 2018, Part 6 defines people in positions of trust according to five conditions, which are laid out in article 19. One: an adult who looks after a child in a children's home, a school, a nursing home, hospital or any other institution in which a child may be detained. That is covered by our current law. Two: an adult who looks after a child on an individual basis. I appreciate the Minister's comments.”
“I thank the Minister for the clarification of the differences in where the laws are coming from, but it is about the expansion of the conditions for abuse of trust to cover other situations. My point is that we have sport and religion here, but, in other jurisdictions, other areas are considered.”
“<BR /> <BR />During the debate several weeks ago and throughout the Committee's deliberations, the rationale for limiting the scope of those provisions to sport and religious settings was constantly repeated by the Minister and the Department. It was based on the available evidence. I will explore that argument further. It is important to compare what we have in law and what is being proposed with what is in place elsewhere. Why is it that abuse of trust provisions in the laws of other jurisdictions such as Jersey cover an extensive range of positions of trust but our provisions will not?”
“<BR /> <BR />On amendment Nos 14 to 18 and issues of abuse of trust, again, I do not intend to go over what has been said at Second Stage, Consideration Stage or, indeed, Committee Stage, but I will highlight some of the key issues that have led us to this point. While I understand why, I put on record disappointment that the Committee will not move the amendments. The amendment at Consideration Stage that included a regulation-making power that would allow the Department to capture other settings and activities in future is, in essence, about exactly that: a power to determine the scope of the abuse of trust provisions in the Sexual Offences Order.”
“The Committee should be commended for its efforts in getting this new offence into the Bill and for the collaborative working with the Department that was key to that. It shows what can be done when there is a will and we work together constructively to develop innovative legislation. <BR /> <BR />I welcome those changes. For the record, they will be the subject of guidance, given that the amendment that was made at Consideration Stage applies to them. That will be important when it comes to the commencement and the roll-out of the new offences, their investigation and their prosecution.”
“I also welcome amendment No 12, with the new clause that it would add to provide for an offence of sending an unwanted image. The key changes from what the Committee originally explored are crucial, moving beyond simply coercing a person to look at such an image and adding the provision for recklessness in causing humiliation, distress or alarm where the purpose is to obtain sexual gratification. Similar to the amendments to the upskirting and downblousing offences, that, rightly, captures the impact on the victim. <BR /> <BR />The deliberate wording in proposed article 72A(6) to the Sexual Offences (Northern Ireland) Order 2008 to cover deepfakes is also significant. They are a growing problem, and we must examine it and tackle it head-on.”
“That is essential to cover those circumstances where the purpose of recording the image cannot clearly be tied to obtaining sexual gratification or, indeed, a deliberate attempt to humiliate, alarm or distress the alleged victim. <BR /> <BR />The court will now have to consider whether the behaviour was reckless in causing the alleged victim to feel humiliated, alarmed or distressed. That is significant, because it properly recognises the impact on the victim and closes a potential loophole for the alleged perpetrator to claim that their behaviour was simply a joke with no harm intended. The amendments are a clear statement that that is not a credible argument and that such behaviour will not be tolerated in any shape or form.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak on the Further Consideration Stage of the Justice (Sexual Offences and Trafficking Victims) Bill and the amendments tabled by the Justice Committee and the Minister of Justice in group 1. I will not go over everything that the Chair outlined. He gave a very comprehensive description of events up until today. <BR /> <BR />On amendment Nos 1 to 11, proposed by the Committee and drafted with the Department, I fully welcome the changes to add the provision of recklessness, which reflects the evidence that the Committee received and strengthens the operation of the offence. The additional limb will allow for prosecution where the alleged perpetrator has been reckless as to whether the alleged victim is humiliated, alarmed or distressed.”
“Thank you very much. Has the Minister a rough date for the completion of the outline business case? When will that be done by the Department? Also, will the Minister provide an update on Ravara House, please?”
“Sorry, Mr Deputy Speaker. Is that for question 6, or on this question?”
“The Minister will be aware that a major problem with the planning system is the lack of openness, transparency and public participation. Does she agree that we must have equal rights of appeal for communities in Northern Ireland?”
“I thank the Minister for coming to the Assembly today, and I thank his departmental officials who have had to administer and deal with the scheme. The Minister outlined in his statement reasons why people can get the remedy payment, one being "service failure by the Department", which is slightly ambiguous. Will the Minister explain what criteria are being used to determine what "service failure" is and how that is assessed?”
“All paperwork must be streamlined and fast-tracked and should come with no strings attached or further barriers put in people's way. The situation faced by innocent Ukrainians who have been forced to flee their homes requires a far more urgent and compassionate response than what we have seen from Westminster so far. <BR /> <BR />Out thoughts and prayers are with the people of Ukraine today. We send them all our strength and support at this incredibly difficult time.”
“Hundreds of thousands of families have already fled the country, and we have all witnessed in the media the scenes across Ukraine over the weekend, with families, children and individuals trying to seek safety, help and support. Many thousands more will attempt to escape the conflict, and, according to the UN Refugee Agency, the number of people fleeing the conflict in Ukraine passed half a million this morning. The Home Office must look at the example being set by other countries and provide safe and secure routes for refugees, and that includes providing safe and secure routes for people to come to Northern Ireland. That goes for anybody needing to seek sanctuary, not just those from Ukraine. <BR /> <BR />We should not place a bureaucratic burden on desperate people.”
“I thank the Member for bringing this important Matter of the Day this afternoon. The recent Russian invasion of Ukraine is a vile act of aggression and an appalling and abhorrent breach of international law that has brought death, destruction, displacement and human rights abuses to innocent civilians. It did not just start last week on 24 February; it has been going on for years. <BR /> <BR />Most of us will not be able to comprehend the situation in which many in Ukraine find themselves now, but we stand in solidarity with the people of Ukraine and call on the UK Government to step up their humanitarian response.”
“It is your voices that we are trying to capture with the Bill. I thank you for speaking up and speaking out.”
“Given that clauses 1 to 5, which cover the new offences and court rules, are to be commenced the day after the Bill receives Royal Assent, I ask the Minister for an update on the training programme and the statutory guidance that her Department will be rolling out. I also hope that the Committee will be able to get more detail on those issues before the law comes into force. <BR /> <BR />Stalking can be a life-or-death situation, so I appeal to anybody who needs help or advice to reach out: there are people and organisations who can help. <BR /> <BR />I thank the Minister for bringing the Bill forward. I also thank the previous Justice Minister Claire Sugden and the previous Justice Committee for laying the groundwork and all of those who gave evidence to the Committee.”
“Stalking leaves victims feeling fearful, threatened, powerless and isolated. <BR /> <BR />As I mentioned at Second Stage, there will be a need to educate citizens of all ages about, and spread awareness of, the new offences. We need robust workplace policies to be rolled out across all sectors. There needs to be guidance for employers and trade unions, for example, as well as detailed guidance for the police, prosecutors, the courts and everybody in our society. We need to ensure that those at the front line of our criminal justice system are fully trained, especially police officers, who will be the first port of call for many when they are reporting the offence for the first time.”
“It can also be a precursor to more serious crimes and acts of violence. That is why the new legal protections are so important: they will save lives. <BR /> <BR />Many victims of stalking will know the perpetrators, but others will not. It could be their partner or ex-partner, but the offence is not always tied to an intimate relationship. It could be as a result of a dispute or a person's public profile, or it could be linked to the workplace, an education establishment and so on. So, incidents of stalking may not, in and of themselves, appear to be criminal. However, repeated unwanted patterns of behaviour are what constitute the new offence, so it is so important to look at the impact of the behaviour on the victim and the entire catalogue of behaviour that they have endured.”
“It has been said elsewhere that, in a society that gives agency and power to men but denies them to women, stalking makes up one part of the epidemic of violence against women and girls across the world. Like most crimes of violence against women, it often goes unreported. <BR /> <BR />As we know, stalking takes many forms. It can involve physically following or spying on a victim, loitering outside their work or home, or monitoring their activities, often through social media and online accounts. It can involve all sorts of intimidating and intrusive behaviour, such as being sent unwanted messages, gifts or receiving numerous phone calls, which can, on the face of it, not look insidious. For any victim, stalking can take its toll emotionally and be very distressing and frightening.”
“I, too, welcome the opportunity to speak at the Final Stage of the Protection from Stalking Bill. I am glad that the Bill will soon become law, and that the amendments that were made at Consideration Stage mean that we will have more robust training, data collection, reporting and guidance on the new criminal offences. Like others did, I thank the Department, the Committee staff, our Bill Clerk and the wider Bill team for all of their hard work and support during the progression of the Bill and for facilitating our scrutiny of it at Committee. <BR /> <BR />As we know, stalking, like other forms of gender-based violence, is rooted in gender inequality.”
“However, I urge all Executive Ministers to make representations to the UK Government on the need for safe and legal routes for family reunions for victims of trafficking and asylum seekers in Northern Ireland. There are well-known issues with asylum claims, the backlog and the process of seeking asylum and refuge in Northern Ireland, and those must be determined without undue delay. <BR /> <BR />That concludes my remarks on group 2.”
“We have had that discussion around clause 16 and the associated amendments that we are debating in the group. We are looking at expanding the support available for those with a positive decision. We also looked at what happens to those who are assessed under the NRM but get a negative grounds decision. We discussed a possible amendment, but it was stated that there is no appeal mechanism. The only option for someone to challenge that decision is through a judicial review. I hope that that can be looked at in the Department's modern slavery strategy and action plan. <BR /> <BR />Finally, on family reunion rights, we know that that sits with Westminster, as it falls under immigration.”
“A number of organisations stated that the statutory defence does not provide a remedy for recognised victims who have prior convictions relating to exploitation related to prostitution and that makes it extremely difficult for trafficked women to exit prostitution and move into mainstream employment, even if they are recognised as having been trafficked. After we questioned officials, it became clear that the number affected in Northern Ireland is likely to be no more than 50, given that prostitution has not been an offence since 2015. However, it is worth looking at. <BR /> <BR />The national referral mechanism is also a framework for identifying and referring potential victims of modern slavery and ensuring that they receive appropriate support.”
“I hope that Members will agree that we need to decriminalise drugs fully in our society, given that it is a healthcare matter rather than one that should rest with the criminal justice system. I would welcome debate on that in the future. <BR /> <BR />I will finish with some things that were not brought forward by the Committee but are relevant to the amendments and can be picked up at a later stage, perhaps in part 2, and support and assistance for victims of trafficking and modern slavery.”
“We heard that from the Migration Justice Project, when it pointed out that having that gap in law does not meet the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe and UN special rapporteur's advice on the non-punishment principle, given the finite number of offences to which it applies. I thank them for the excellent briefings and information provided to the Committee throughout the process, which were of great assistance.”
“Amendment No 17 is, therefore, an enabling provision, much like what we did on protection orders and notices in the Domestic Abuse and Civil Proceedings Act. <BR /> <BR />Finally, I will support amendment No 16, which will provide adequate protection for victims of an emerging form of exploitation by extending the statutory defence on exploitation to include class A drugs. It makes no sense to differentiate or to have any uncertainty over the application of the non-punishment principle.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am still at a loss about what amendment No 15 does and why it has been tabled. I will happily take an intervention from any of the Members who tabled it so that they can explain what gap it closes. <BR /> <BR />I fully support amendment No 17, which was tabled by the Committee. I am glad to see future protective measures for the victims of slavery and trafficking being debated today. We have not specifically mentioned only risk orders and notices on the Bill, and I welcome the commitment from the Department to consult on those, albeit before the end of the mandate. However, there is work to be done on their effectiveness for Northern Ireland, especially in recognising the cross-border issues and learning from experiences in Great Britain.”