Rachel Woods
North Down · Green Party · Northern Ireland
“We have to get it right, but we are not starting from scratch. We only have to look across the water or down the road to the public and private sectors that already offer that type of leave. <BR /> <BR />I now turn to the comments of other Members.”
“<BR /> <BR />It is time to end the coercive control that criminal gangs have over our communities. Victim and survivors' voices must be heard and reflected in our laws and policies. Minority groups should not be sidelined or silenced. We need to educate from a very young age.”
“There is no direct cost to employers from safe leave, and it is needed to deal with the issues related to abuse. We need to destigmatise abuse and tackle root causes, misogyny and toxic masculinity. <BR /> <BR />I agree with Mr Weir's comments. We should not need to have the protections in place.”
“I thank every Member who spoke during the debate for their comments and support for the Bill. I will address the Minister's comments first. I thank him for being here, and I am glad that he is feeling better. <BR /> <BR />The Assembly cares, and we need to work constructively together to help.”
“<BR /> <BR />As I said at Second Stage, period poverty must be viewed through the lens of children's rights and how the Bill meets our obligations under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC).”
“<BR /> <BR />I take this opportunity at Final Stage to thank officials and members of the councils who took the time to discuss with me their policies, the background to them and how they are working in practice: thank you for everything that you are doing for your staff, and I hope that, should the Bill pass, your regional Parliaments an…”
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“Our culture in the global north of extractivism, exploitation and overconsumption creates an uninhabitable planet for our children and grandchildren, and we hear that loud and clear from our young people. The amendment establishes a future generations principle in law, which means acting in a manner that ensures that the needs of the present are met without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their needs. <BR /> <BR />Finally, amendment No 41 establishes a just transition fund for agriculture. The fund will provide financial assistance and advice to the agri-sector as it meets its contribution to the overall target. We know that the transition will be challenging across all sectors, but agriculture faces additional barriers to decarbonisation.”
“Collecting gendered information about policies is not about making society work just for men or just for women; it is about creating a society that works equally for all. I will not go into detail again on the need for desegregated data collection. In the last few years, I have done so a number of times in the Chamber. Those who are listening know my view on it and how important it is to know what we are dealing with across society. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 41 also requires the needs of people living in rural areas and the needs of future generations to be taken into account. I am particularly pleased to support that. That is what climate action is all about. We need to find a way to live that is within the planetary boundaries of what the earth can provide for us.”
“When those issues were considered, Vienna city planners adapted transportation to match women's daily routines, including more frequent trains during the day and night, increased well-lit shelters at bus and tram stops, lifts to elevated underground platforms, more accessible emergency buttons, additional barrier-free zones for prams and walking aids and the provision of additional security guards after dark. <BR /> <BR />There is no point in developing green infrastructure if it is not tailored to those who need and use it most, so we must take gender differences into account. Mary Robinson summed it up well:”
“<BR /> <BR />A good example of that is public transport. You might ask, "How is taking the bus different for men and women?". It is very different. A pioneering study in Vienna examined how men and women use buses and trams. It found that women are more likely to make multiple trips throughout the day when carrying out unpaid labour, such as caregiving and domestic responsibilities like trips to the shop, dropping children to and from school and carrying out errands for elderly parents. That makes them more vulnerable to poor transport design. There is also the issue of safety.”
“Indeed, the recent publication and launch of the feminist recovery plan by the Women's Policy Group Northern Ireland highlighted the need to adopt gender-sensitive policy responses to the deeply gendered pandemic crisis. We know that climate breakdown is also deeply gendered. <BR /> <BR />The Women's Policy Group has called for a feminist green new deal, and we agree. In any planning for the future of Northern Ireland, climate policies need to be considered through that lens. The intention is that the amendment will require plans and policies to be gender-mainstreamed, which means integrating a gender perspective into the preparation, design, implementation, monitoring and evaluation of policies, regulatory measures and spending programmes, with a view to promoting equality between women and men and combating discrimination.”
“Amendment No 41 also requires gender inequality to be actively addressed in plans and policies. Gender has been specifically included as a category on its own, as per stakeholder feedback in the Committee's consultation on the Bill. That reflects the recognition that climate breakdown is experienced differently, with women likely to bear the greater burden of situations of poverty. We met stakeholders to discuss amendments, and women's groups were clear that the Department's carrying out an equality impact assessment on policies was not enough to address the differing gendered impacts of the policies. We have all heard calls for gender budgeting and gender proofing.”
“We need more information, and it needs to be accessible. That is what all our constituents are asking for, and it should be rolled out as a matter of urgency.”
“When exactly will that be launched? Who is it for? What will those low-carbon heat projects look like?”
“We need to move to a net zero, sustainable economy, with proper investment in renewables, a just transition where no one is left behind and a pathway to addressing inequality and eradicating poverty. We need to ban fracking and immediately stop any new petroleum licences being granted and the exploration and extraction of hydrocarbons in Northern Ireland. We must implement that moratorium, which was agreed by the Assembly, as a matter of urgency. <BR /> <BR />I also note with regard to amendment No 41, on mandating action to be taken to address poverty in line with climate action, that the answer to a question that I asked the Minister for the Economy recently showed that there is an intention to launch a pilot domestic and small business support scheme for low-carbon heating, as outlined in the recently published energy strategy.”
“Despite months of warning, the Communities Minister announced the emergency fuel payment scheme only at the start of this year. It has been beset with difficulties, with an arbitrary cap on the number of daily applicants. While short-term fixes are welcome to deal with the here and now for some people, where are the more long-term sustainable solutions? The Finance Minister's January monitoring round left £100 million unallocated. There is money there, but it is not being prioritised where it is needed. <BR /> <BR />That is part of a wider picture of rising living costs, stagnating wages and rising rents. The fuel crisis has demonstrated the problems that are inherent to fossil fuel dependency. Fossil fuel corporations are raking in multi-million-pound profits while families here struggle to make ends meet.”
“Indeed, many green solutions can simultaneously tackle social deprivation and poverty as they result in lower fuel bills, better-insulated and warmer houses, and more energy-efficient homes. However, green technologies must be made available to people who are on low incomes. <BR /> <BR />It is important to recognise what society is experiencing today. Many Members spoke about that yesterday and, indeed, this morning. We have known about the fuel price crisis for many months, if not years. We have consistently raised it in the Assembly over the past few years. Last year, we all met the Utility Regulator. It was clear how serious the fuel price crisis was becoming. We had the opportunity to act, certainly before Christmas, but the Executive failed to do so.”
“from the just transition principle. I have to say for the record, and from the outset, that that is not to say that business and industry will not have a huge part to play in the transition to a green economy: they absolutely will. However, to include those interests in the just transition principle in the Bill is to entirely subvert what a just transition is all about. Business and industry interests already have a voice. The just transition principle must be about building consensus among people and communities, and empowering them in the context of huge corporate power and dominating agendas. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 41 adds to the list of objectives for the just transition principle, mandating that action be taken to reduce poverty, inequality and social deprivation, as those issues must be tackled alongside climate change.”
“We want new jobs that are created to be secure in the face of the challenges of climate change. Going forward, everything that we do must be considered with regard not only to how we lower current emissions but to how we adapt to the irreversible impacts of climate change. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 40 serves to remove the mention of:”
“It places an extra onus not only to support current low-carbon jobs but to actively grow jobs in those and other sustainable sectors. The term "climate resilient" is defined in our amendment No 41 as the:”
“<BR /> <BR />Our amendment No 39 expands the requirement to support environmentally and socially sustainable jobs to a requirement to support:”
“I hope that the Department realises that working with people and communities through that transition is not a useful thing to do, but an absolute must if we are to be successful. <BR /> <BR />Our amendment Nos 39, 40 and 41 amend the Minister's amendment to create new clause 16A. The Minister's amendment covers several policy areas, including the coordination of policies and proposals with policies in GB, the Republic of Ireland and elsewhere; the use of nature-based projects; the impact on small businesses; and the just transition. Our amendments relate to the just transition. While I am glad to see that the Minister was willing to take on board the Agriculture Committee's support for the inclusion of a just transition, the objectives of the just transition principle in amendment No 38 are too restrictive.”
“It is also unfortunate that, due to the narrow scope of the Bill, we are unable to discuss other amendments relating to public participation, such as the creation of a citizens' assembly, but that is for another time. <BR /> <BR />We know that reaching net zero will be challenging. It will require an economy-wide transformation. The transition will unlock many benefits well into the future, but the reality is that it will also mean that we have to change how we do most things. We need to bring people along with us; if we do not, we will fail. People need to understand why changes need to happen and to be part of shaping the solutions. That is why amendment No 37 will require the Executive to consult publicly on policies to meet carbon budgets, as a start.”
“I welcome the opportunity to speak in the group 2 debate. I will try to speak to a number of the amendments in this group in as succinct a way as possible, but I make no promises. <BR /> <BR />Amendment No 37 seeks to change clause 16 to mandate the Department to conduct a public consultation on plans and policies for meeting the carbon budget for a relevant period. It is disappointing that such an amendment even has to be proposed. Public consultation on such a document is the bare minimum level of public participation that should be expected. The fact that that was not included in the Bill is an indictment of how we view public participatory processes in Northern Ireland more generally.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. Does he agree that it is not just about waiting times for decisions but that the entire planning system does not take into account the biodiversity and environmental impacts of development? We can see that in the recent discussion and community backlash against the removal, without any consultation or transparency, of trees that are protected by preservation orders. Does he agree with me that we need an equal right of appeal for communities in Northern Ireland?”
“I thank the Minister for her statement and CJINI for the review. The report is, clearly, not what was expected, and, indeed, some parts are distressing and disturbing to read. In November 2020, we were told that the Minister was confident that the allegations of people being held in solitary confinement would be found to be inaccurate and that she would not tolerate people being held for long periods in solitary confinement. What assurances can the Minister give that the recommendations will be implemented in the times outlined in the report? Can she provide an update on the possible use of body scanners in the Prison Service? What role is the Independent Monitoring Board taking as part of the issue?”
“I also thank the previous Justice Committee, my party colleague Clare Bailey MLA and the previous Justice Minister, Claire Sugden MLA, who were determined to get the Bill in place a few years ago before the Assembly was pulled down. They were right. Stalking could not have been included in the domestic abuse legislation. The two issues are completely different, and, in order to be got right, they need to be treated separately. We know that. <BR /> <BR />I will support all the Minister's amendments, and I encourage Members to support amendment No 7 in order to strengthen data collection and reporting.”
“To those listening who have been affected by stalking or wish to get advice and assistance, I will say this: please reach out. It may be scary to do so, and you might be fearful of doing so, but there are people and organisations out there that can and do help.”
“What we seek is as much clarity as possible, and that is not asking too much. <BR /> <BR />Finally, tribute must be paid to every person who came forward to speak to us as a Committee and as individual members and laid bare what were — I think that I speak for the members who were part of those informal meetings too — their harrowing experiences. Thank you to everyone who spoke to me and told me what had happened to them. Your experience and your voice are important in the legislation.”
“That is not to take away from the Committee or, indeed, the Assembly's job of scrutiny; it is to add to that and improve the level of information that we are able to scrutinise. That is why the reporting requirement in amendment No 6 is so important. It will help the criminal justice sector, inspecting organisations, scrutiny bodies, MLAs and the general public to see how the new system for dealing with stalking crimes is working. It will help to fix problems sooner, lead to more comprehensive solutions and build confidence in the police, the courts and government. While I fully support the Minister's amendment, I, like others, in response to the Committee's desire to bring it forward, would like to see more detail specified on protection orders. There is certainly no harm in doing that, as it is already covered.”
“Others have said that it is unclear who would collect the data, but my amendment relates to amendment No 6, which states that it is the Department that would do so. I note the comments that anything can be amended, so, if there are issues with the practical implications of the current wording and if Members understand, as, they say, they do, the intent of the amendment, I ask that they agree to it at this stage. We can work together on it for Further Consideration Stage. That is the purpose of my amendment: to strengthen amendment No 6. I ask Members to vote in support of amendment No 7. <BR /> <BR />I will move on. It is one thing to collect all relevant information regarding the new offences and protection orders, but the Department must also conduct a thorough analysis and publish its assessment of the effectiveness of the legislation.”
“That is important, when read alongside my amendment, as it accepts that the Department may not have all the tools to capture all the information described in section 75, so there is some leeway and flexibility for the Department. <BR /> <BR />Even though the ultimate aim is to strengthen data collection and get a much fuller picture of the issues at play, it is my understanding that the PSNI has already started looking at section 75 data collection. Earlier, the Deputy Chair asked for other examples of where section 75 data was collected, but it only exists in Northern Ireland in that form. <BR /> <BR />The Minister stated in her opening remarks that the amendment may have unintended consequences. I hope that, in closing, she will explain to the House what they are.”
“The first is that, on 25 November 2021, at an evidence session with the Justice Committee, I asked the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission directly whether it saw any issue with collating and publishing that type of data. The chief commissioner helpfully and succinctly replied with one word: "No". There were no issues. The second point is that amendment No 6, which introduces the reporting requirement in the Bill, already includes an important caveat on data collection:”
“What if there were people who did not come forward to report stalking, did not know how to do so or did not want to engage with services, let alone officially report it to the criminal justice agencies and go through those often intimidating processes? Maybe their experiences are not being picked up in a way that fits into the data collection systems. The Committee heard from many sectoral organisations on that exact point. It is clear that we need to improve our data collection and reporting to help to develop better policy responses. <BR /> <BR />I heard loud and clear last year and, indeed, the year before about the need for disaggregated data. I know from previous debates and conversations that some Members may have concerns about that, so I want to make two further points.”
“If there is already a public duty, why do we need the amendment? We need it because that level of data is not always collected. The amendment is about the operation of the law after the Bill becomes an Act and has been commenced. We are saying that we need the data so that we can develop evidence-based policy and responses. We, as a Committee, set out to do that through getting amendments, as already discussed, drafted and tabled. We also know that resource allocation and funding go hand in hand with relevant data and that funding and resources should be granted on the basis of objective need, but we know that that does not always happen. What if we were to have the information to hand in order to better identify that need? Maybe the need is in a different area from where we once thought or assumed.”
“It ties in with the importance of data collection and reporting — to know what we are talking about and to know whether there are specific areas or problems that we need to put policies and resources in place to deal with. I will not labour on the amendment too long, as it is self-explanatory, but section 75, as we know, aims to change the practices of government and public authorities so that equality of opportunity and good relations are central to policymaking and service delivery. I will quote:”
“That data needs to be detailed, and collection must be consistent across the board, with proper read-across involving various justice agencies. Again, the Committee was in agreement that we wanted that to be reflected in the Bill, and I am again grateful that the Minister has agreed to bring that forward via amendment No 4. However, there are some gaps, which is why I tabled amendment No 7. <BR /> <BR />I will move on to that amendment. Members may think that we have discussed this before: they are correct. Indeed, we did so during debates on the domestic abuse Bill, and it has been mentioned by Members who spoke earlier.”
“The same goes for the new offence of stalking. How can we get beyond the experiences of many victims who spoke to Committee members — I experienced it last year — of not being believed or of having unwanted attention being brushed off as something that it was not? If we do not know how to recognise it, what do we do? We all need training, and that is why it is key that we are introducing the new offences. The learning must come alongside it, so I am glad that the Minister will make the changes through amendment No 5. <BR /> <BR />To aid post-legislative scrutiny — an issue that the House needs to do a lot more work on — along with monitoring the effectiveness of new protections and new criminal offences, we need to collate and analyse the relevant data.”
“I thank the Minister for her intervention, and I completely understand her point. There is no dispute. I am glad that it is in primary legislation in those Bills, and that reflects the needs and wants of those who are involved in front-line support organisations and the needs and wants of the Committee and the Minister. <BR /> <BR />Significant work has been done to have training available in the Civil Service too. At the end of last year, at the all-party group on domestic and sexual abuse, I had a run-through of one of the training modules from the Department. It really showed how beneficial it is, and I thank the Minister's officials for all their work on that. It is an absolutely fantastic resource, and I look forward to its being launched next month. <BR /> <BR />If we are not aware of what coercive control is, how can we spot it?”
“Without training, there would be no effective implementation of the legislation, and that is why I fully support mandatory programmes across the criminal justice system. We have seen that through the regular updates that the Committee was given in light of amendments to the domestic abuse Bill and on the all-party group on domestic and sexual violence. Many police officers have completed the training, and it is being rolled out to the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) and the Courts and Tribunals Service.”
“Clear, detailed guidance is essential to help those tasked with operationalising the new law and putting it into practice, and that is key to ensuring that the public are able to benefit from the new protections around stalking. We saw the importance of having guidance on the new domestic abuse offence. The arguments have been made, and it is equally important for the new offences of stalking, threatening or abusive behaviour and breaching a stalking protection order. <BR /> <BR />Many of those who provided evidence to the Committee emphasised the need for adequate training, given the current lack of understanding and awareness of stalking and how the new offence of threatening or abusive behaviour can and should be used.”
“<BR /> <BR />We should not underestimate the importance and significance of guidance regarding the new criminal offences and new legislation more generally. That is something that I pressed for continuously when the Assembly was considering the domestic abuse Bill. I raised similar arguments with officials and the Committee during the deliberations on this Bill. I was happy that the Committee agreed to propose an amendment to widen the scope of clause 17, but I am glad that it is no longer needed and that the Minister has proposed the changes that we need to see in the Bill in amendment Nos 1, 2 and 3. We need robust implementation of the new law and proper awareness and training across the criminal justice system.”
“Indeed, that has been discussed around domestic abuse too, so it is an issue that we need to grapple with in order to review, update and implement policies around places that may be used as locations for now-criminal behaviour. What does a workplace do if person A is being stalked by person B and they are on the same property? What measures should be put in place? What can it be? Is there advice and guidance on how to deal with that, and what role does the employer need to play, for example? I would like to see Departments providing the resources and advice to help businesses and other organisations to deal with those scenarios, and that is not a matter for just the Department of Justice.”
“We should not have a situation in which a person is a victim of stalking at university, for example, and is told that they cannot attend class and should move to a different class or be forced to leave university, when stalking is reported. Similarly, we cannot have a situation where a victim of stalking has to move on — to move away from their workplace, say — because their stalker remains. It is not the victim who should have to change their behaviour and their everyday life in response to stalking. <BR /> <BR />That brings in the wider issue of awareness of the role and the responsibilities that we as a society have to play in protecting victims. That is longer-term and is not within the scope of the Bill. What duty exists in places of work, worship and education around stalking?”
“The Committee report reflects the lengthy discussions and debate that we had on the orders, not just on the application process but on where they apply. The Department confirmed that the key aim was to protect the victim and prevent the impact of stalking and it was not a question of a perpetrator's religious or work rights taking precedence, which was and is welcomed. However, I heard it loud and clear from victims of stalking whom I met that it was at their place of work, their place of worship and at their education facility that they were stalked. It was also they who were made to or had to leave or move on: not the perpetrator but them, as the victim. I appreciate that there is a balance of rights, but we need to be mindful of what really happens and try to minimise the impact on victims in future.”
“I will endeavour not to go over what has been said other than to thank the Committee staff and all who provided evidence. It is greatly appreciated. I welcome the constructive approach from the Minister and the Department during the Committee's scrutiny and in response to our suggestions to strengthen the Bill. In order to keep my comments relatively brief, I will touch only on areas where, I think, the Committee has added value through our scrutiny. Of course, I will address my amendment regarding the reporting of section 75 information. <BR /> <BR />As the Chair set out, the Committee discussed a number of issues in relation to certain clauses. I want to touch on one that stills jars with me, which is in relation to clause 7, but I appreciate why it is in the Bill.”
“I thank the Minister for her answer. To summarise it, the prescribed content is there for schools to deliver on their own: that is a problem. We need to look around and take stock. Violence against women and girls is prolific. We do not feel safe on our streets, and there is a lack of knowledge of what a healthy relationship looks like. My question is this: does the Minister accept that, without legislating for mandatory, standardised and comprehensive RSE, the Executive are complicit in perpetuating an education system that is failing to tackle harmful beliefs and behaviours, failing our children and young people and failing to drive forward the changes that we need to build a society where women and girls are valued, protected and equal in every sense?”
“The transition to HPV primer early has been agreed in principle, with an aim to implement it next year. I welcome that move to more accurate testing here. It is important that the roll-out happens as swiftly as possible to ensure that the women of Northern Ireland receive the highest standard of health screening. That is what they deserve, and there should be more testing, not less. Lessons should be learned about how to communicate changes in the screening programme. It is crucial to ensure clear and informative public health communications around this change so that it can be recognised as the good news and positive change to the programme that it is.”
“Nobody should feel alone, confused or ashamed when receiving their screening results. We need to have discussions around human papillomavirus (HPV), which is the virus that causes 99·7% of cervical cancers. Half of the calls to Jo's Trust focus on HPV, with women saying that they feel dirty, embarrassed and confused about having this very common virus. Far more work is needed to reduce the stigma surrounding it, starting at the age of the HPV vaccination being given in school. <BR /> <BR />In the rest of the UK, the screening programme tests first for the presence of HPV before testing for cell changes. That is a more sensitive and effective method for screening than that which is currently used here, as it allows those at greater risk of developing cancer to be monitored more closely and from an earlier age.”
“I know what it looks like and the feeling about opening it. It can sometimes be really embarrassing and cause a feeling of shame. A lot of women who responded to Jo's Trust said that. However, each year in the UK, 220,000 women are told that they have cell changes following their routine cervical screening appointment. The cells are not cancerous, but they could develop into cancer if they are not monitored or treated appropriately. Treatment given to prevent the development of cervical cancer is highly effective, with a success rate of about 90%. That makes examination and treatment crucial aspects of prevention. <BR /> <BR />Recent research found that nine in 10 women knew little or nothing about cell changes before being diagnosed, and more than a quarter were ashamed.”
“I wish to speak about cervical cancer. Screening is one of the best ways to prevent cervical cancer, but over one in four do not attend their appointments when they are invited. We know that tests can save lives, but they are not easy for everybody. Some people find them uncomfortable or embarrassing. Others face additional barriers, such as a disability or an experience of trauma. We need to focus on reducing the barriers to this potentially life-saving test and encourage its uptake. <BR /> <BR />Last week was Cervical Cancer Prevention Week, and the charity Jo's Cervical Cancer Trust took the opportunity to highlight the importance of those tests. The trust opens up conversations about what follows a test, which are the results. A number of people in the Chamber and I know that, after receiving a screening, you receive a letter.”
“Will the Minister clarify that prisoners can and do have access to books and magazines sent in to them by family and friends and that no change to that practice has been made in the past year to deal with the pandemic?”
“I thank the Member for giving way. On a point of clarity, can a petition of concern be lodged on retrospective legislation?”
“We have all made sacrifices, and family and friends are grieving because they have lost loved ones. <BR /> <BR />Last Christmas was horrendous for everybody. I go back to the example of my gran. Last year, I stood outside her house, waving at her. It was the first time that she had ever spent Christmas away from family. I do not want to do that again, and I do not know any other member of our society who would want to do that either. As we move into another phase of the pandemic with new variants, and the Executive consider further responses, they must provide clear communication and guidance. Please provide detail and information, and please provide support to those being affected.”
“<BR /> <BR />I am disgusted that I even need to say this, but I think that we have all had the accusation: supporting COVID certification is not equivalent to supporting the Nazis. I am not a member of the SS. It is not OK to send MLAs pictures of swastikas or to abuse Ministers — or any other person, for that matter — online or to issue death threats to anybody. This is a global health pandemic. <BR /> <BR />Mr Dickson outlined a very personal testimony, and I know a great number of people who share his experience and thoughts. I thank him for sharing that. I urge everyone to act responsibly. Wear your face covering if you can. Wash your hands, keep safe, look after each other, and please be kind to one another. Our front-line health and care workers have worked and worked, and they are expected to keep going.”
“Again, I have raised the issue in questions, but we need a public awareness and information campaign that really gets to people who do not have social media, internet access or smartphones or who do not watch the news daily. <BR /> <BR />Not everyone has to have an app, as we know, but much of the focus has been on that. It is important to clarify a number of aspects of the regulation. Yes, you can go to a licensed premises or theatre with a paper certificate; yes, you can go with proof that you have recovered from the virus; yes, you can go with your lateral flow test, taken on that day, showing a negative result. No, you do not need to have a QR code with your face beside it if you want to go to a pub.”