David Brooks
East Belfast · Democratic Unionist Party · Northern Ireland
“Does the Member accept that our position, as it has been laid out and although it is different from hers, is that schools should have autonomy to decide those things? It is not about appointing anyone, least of all men specifically, to make those decisions; it is about school leadership.”
“I recognise that the Member is being genuine, as all Members have been as they have laid out their reasoning, and I have some sympathy with that. However, Northern Ireland is being portrayed almost as an outlier.”
“We have seen some enthusiasm for private Members' Bills introduced by those on the Benches opposite progressing at speed, and I hope to see similar motivation for such a key issue as inspections. In the past — admittedly, when there was less time pressure — the Committee was generous with its time when hearing from stakeholders.”
“I will say a few words rather make a lengthy speech. The Justice Bill is coming up, and I am sure that my colleague Mr Frew will have that covered.”
“I echo the sentiments that racism is always wrong, but one of the pressures that are causing frustration is the lack of social and affordable housing, particularly in our most deprived communities. That has been exacerbated by Mears's operation.”
“I will not take lectures in scripture and Christianity from those who often spend their time opposing Christian values — I have no truck with such lectures. Equally, I say to those who have been involved in the violence that you will not rebuild a Christian nation by torching houses or cars or by attacking the police.”
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“The First Minister has said that the public want to see parties working together. I believe that, in a speech at the weekend, she also said that she would leave no stone unturned in the delivery of the A5. I presume that that applies to other infrastructure projects. Does she agree that, in order to create that welcoming environment for investment, we should make sure that climate change legislation does not stand in the way and delay large infrastructure projects in Northern Ireland?”
“Will the Member agree that, from the Committee's perspective, quite often, we have seen a willingness from Education officials to engage? My perception and that of the Committee is that there is more reticence on the Health side. That is not an attack on the Health Minister. That is to say that Health, with its budgetary issues, has a reticence about over committing itself, but I think that the reticence that we have seen in the Committee has largely been from the Health side.”
“Does the Member agree that some of the challenges that he outlined in respect of the Irish-medium sector estate are the same challenges that we see in the SEN sector, in that we need more special schools, and we need more sites? A big part of the problem is that the Department of Education is not resourced to the level that it needs to be in order to provide some of those facilities.”
“The point that I made was that we have a responsibility to look at the budgetary constraints and other issues. There are many things that would be nice, good or right to do, but that does not necessarily mean that the way in which we look to do them is the right way or that they are the priority that we need to take forward. I agree, as, I think, everyone here agrees, that poverty needs to be tackled. There has been a discussion in the Chamber today about how we can do that optimally. My point about the Assembly's not being just a nice ideas factory is, in essence, that we have to have some context and link that to our understanding of the financial constraints that the Executive and the budgets are under.”
“I thank the Member for giving way. He said that he listened intently to the debate. If he had listened intently to my contribution, he would understand that it was about one of the principles that I have argued for a number of times. It was not a derogatory slur on those who receive welfare but simply about the principle that what is being talked about here is, in essence, a welfare intervention rather than an educational intervention. I have debated that principle across the Chamber today. At no time was it a slur on those who are on welfare, many of whom are my constituents whom I help daily, as, I am sure, all Members around the Chamber do for their constituents.”
“The principle of asking which Department pays for what and responsibility being in the right place matters. From our point of view, it is not about pushing that around with other parties. It sits partly with Westminster and partly with the Department for Communities, which is led by our Minister. The principle is that we need to make sure that the right Department looks after that responsibility, particularly when we are dealing with cases such as the Department of Education and probably the Department of Health as well, where there are such huge responsibilities and where — as you will know, from the Committee on which you sit — the budget does not meet the need.”
“The Member raised the point that free school meals contribute to a pupil's ability to learn. That is absolutely right, and that is why we give free school meals, but that context is not applicable to what the Bill will bring forward, which is to tackle holiday hunger.”
“Does the Member agree that there is clearly an argument for free school meals as an educational intervention? We know that children study better in school when they are well fed. However, outwith their educational experience, it is a welfare issue, rather than an educational one.”
“I thank the Chair of the Education Committee for giving way. Surely it is not just about what we want to see numerous Departments doing but about whether Education is the right Department to make the right intervention and whether, as I outlined in my speech, what I feel is essentially a welfare payment should come out of an already stretched Education budget.”
“The place for that is welfare support, not with the Department of Education, which, as everyone else can see, is already strapped for resources. <BR /> <BR />We cannot take money from the legions of challenges that we already face around school buildings, SEN provision, childcare and teachers' and school staff pay, only for demand to be placed in welfare too. Colleagues cannot keep demanding more of those challenges in full knowledge of the financial pressures that we face and knowing that the person who holds the purse strings sits on their Benches, without making significant commitments either to the needs of education or, indeed, to welfare and poverty.”
“That creates a system where assistance is unevenly distributed, potentially fostering resentment and perceptions of inequality for those whom we often call the "working poor". <BR /> <BR />There are other issues that I will look at as the Committee for Education considers the Bill. However, let us be clear: nobody in the Chamber is against poverty alleviation. That is as obvious as motherhood and apple pie; I do not think that anyone in the Chamber honestly believes that about others, regardless of our differing views and ideologies. Of course, making sure that every child is fed is a fundamental concern for us all, but the who and how matters. The strategy to ensure that we target and roll back poverty and do not just treat the symptoms also matters.”
“I am interested to hear what conversations Sinn Féin, in bringing the Bill forward, have had with the Finance Minister in order to properly resource the education system before demanding that it takes on the responsibilities of other Departments, particularly when the Department that is responsible for poverty alleviation has itself received no support for work in that area. <BR /> <BR />I make the point that there is and will be a question of fairness and consistency as well. Many low-income families who may not meet the strict eligibility criteria for free school meals also struggle during holiday periods but receive no additional support, often missing out on repeated supports because those supports often use the same criteria, which exclude them repeatedly.”
“<BR /> <BR />I say all that to make the point that it matters where resources sit. It matters that duties sit with the right Department, and it is essential in proposing new resource-intensive plans that we consider where the money will come from. The Bill will not tackle the underlying structural problems that bring about poverty in the way that Mr Lyons's proposals seek to do. It is not good enough that something is virtuous; it must also be done in the right way and with due consideration for resource.”
“We had that in the case of mental health interventions, which were good ones. Pat often talks about Healthy Happy Minds, and everyone agrees that those were positive interventions, but some of us also recognise the reality that those took place in exceptional times, when resources and realities were different. <BR /> <BR />Everybody can see that the education system is struggling to meet financial demands. We can look at our school estate and the pressures on SEN provision. The Minister of Education has made efforts to ramp up childcare with significant investment to support families. The Minister has done exceptionally well with the resources that he has. The reality, however, is that he faces Executive underfunding to the tune of hundreds of millions of pounds.”
“The same Sinn Féin Finance Minister who is overseeing the chronic underfunding of our education system has also shown no desire to further fund interventions on poverty, yet here we have a Bill that would pull resources from an education system that already has mammoth challenges with its budget. <BR /> <BR />The Department of Education undertook to roll out a scheme during COVID, and there has been a much-repeated call to roll out something similar to that which was done in unique and emergency circumstances when there were significant additional funds from central government for issues to be resolved.”
“<BR /> <BR />I said recently at the Education Committee, as we discussed the Children’s Services Co-operation Act (Northern Ireland) 2015 with regard to issues relating to the Department of Health, that cooperation is absolutely necessary. However, if it is to be viable, it cannot simply mean the responsibilities of one Department being passed over to another. Helpfully, the Communities Minister is not resisting progress on this issue. He has brought forward a poverty strategy to address these very issues. However, the Executive have not yet allocated a single penny.”
“Children do not fall into poverty by themselves. They do so because their family, their parents, their guardians or their support networks are, for a time, without the resources and means to meet their needs. Usually, when a child faces that kind of poverty, the adults are already going without to provide all that they can. Let us be clear: nobody in our society should be in a position where they cannot afford the basics. There is no more fundamental and basic a need than the need for food, but that is an issue for the welfare system, which falls in part with Westminster and in part with our own Department for Communities. It is absolutely not a responsibility for the Department of Education.”
“We are not here to just tell people what they would like to hear, wilfully blinding ourselves at times, as we do, to the financial realities of the Executive. If we want to achieve a good and worthy aim, such as supporting those in poverty, we have a duty to consider how best we can do that. I am not sure whether the Bill does that. <BR /> <BR />Ending poverty or best supporting those who are struggling in that way is right. It is so blatantly, obviously right to provide such support that we have long had a system for doing so — indeed, the United Kingdom was a forerunner and leader in that respect — called the welfare system. It seems to me that the Bill is a top-up welfare payment for some by another name. To note that is not to oppose the principle of such support, but it is important to the consideration.”
“Thank you, Madam Principal Deputy Speaker. I listened to Danny's contribution and I recognise, as we all will, that it is a sensitive issue. Chronic poverty and poverty involving families who find themselves in short-term difficulty due to difficult circumstances arising and the resulting financial struggles are issues that all of us across this Chamber deal with through our offices, particularly, but not exclusively, in winter periods, when costs are higher, fuel is needed and so on. <BR /> <BR />Members and the general public will probably instinctively think that, on the face of it, the Bill is good and that it is ethical and moral to support those in our society who are struggling and the least well off, particularly children. There is a problem, however. The Assembly is not here to be just a factory for nice ideas and worthy ideals.”
“Even after his retirement, he remained closely connected to Grosvenor and regularly attended carol services, prize distributions, sporting events and, most recently, the 80th anniversary gala dinner; indeed, I last met him at the Ulster Hall at a concert to celebrate that milestone. <BR /> <BR />Beyond his school life, the school says, he had a great love of travel, particularly railway journeys, and was a dedicated member of the Railway Preservation Society of Ireland. Mr Lockett will be remembered for his enthusiasm, sharp wit and wisdom. Above all, he was a true gentleman whose legacy lives on in the school and in the many lives that he influenced. Many of us owe him a great debt. He will be greatly missed.”
“As I said, what made those achievements truly special was that, throughout all that change, Mr Lockett never lost sight of what mattered most: the pupils. He was deeply committed to ensuring that every young person had the opportunity to succeed academically and beyond the classroom, and his passion for the school was evident in everything that he did. The school noted that he gave of his time generously, attended every school event and was a familiar and reassuring presence at Saturday morning sports fixtures. <BR /> <BR />In 2009, Mr Lockett was rightly awarded an OBE in recognition of his exceptional contribution to education. It was a fitting tribute to a career defined by service, leadership and excellence.”
“In 1989, he joined Grosvenor as vice principal, and, four years later, in 1993, he became principal, which was a role that he held with distinction for 15 years. <BR /> <BR />Those years were ones of remarkable change at the school. Mr Lockett was a man of vision and determination, guiding the school through significant transformation. One of the most notable milestones during Mr Lockett's leadership was the opening of the Ken Reid science and technology block in 1999, which was a building from which I benefited. That was only the beginning, however. Through his guidance and commitment, Grosvenor evolved into the outstanding campus that we see today at Marina Park. He played a central role in the major development of the school's facilities.”
“I rise to mark the passing of Mr John Lockett OBE, who was a former principal of Grosvenor Grammar School; indeed, he was the principal during my time at the school. As someone who had health difficulties that disrupted my education, I benefited not only from the environment of academic excellence that he developed at the school but from the care and compassion that was shown to every pupil there. <BR /> <BR />Mr Lockett's career in education was marked by dedication and steady progression. Before arriving at Grosvenor, he taught at Lurgan boys' school, where he rose to become the head of biology. He later moved to Banbridge Academy, taking on the leadership of careers and sixth form.”
“On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. If you want me to withdraw that particular word, I am happy to do so. Nevertheless, I feel that things were said that were factually inaccurate.”
“The Member who raised the issue knows that the Minister whom he mentioned was not directly involved in that decision. He knows that, and he is spreading mistruth in the Chamber.”
“He knows that that is false. He knows that that had nothing to do with the Minister. It is nonsense — nonsense. It is lies.”
“Is the Alliance Party against engagement with the US and international markets in general or only when it concerns a president with whom it does not agree?”
“Has the Member shed any tears for the victims of the IRA? Does she worry about the 30,000 Iranians who were killed by the regime before this?”
“They replaced him with a brutal ayatollah.”
“<BR /> <BR />Members on the opposite Benches may have missed me say earlier that hordes of Iranian people at home and abroad have openly celebrated the downfall and death of the Ayatollah. They want their country back; they want freedom — freedom that UN diplomacy has shown no ability whatsoever to deliver. Those who speak against military action, whether they accept it or not —.”
“If the UN is continually disregarded and disrespected, that is not least because it has repeatedly shown itself to be toothless and impotent in dealing with threats. <BR /> <BR />Speaking of toothlessness, I have criticised the Republic of Ireland's lack of defence investment on a number of occasions in this place, but I can say that, on all fronts, the British Government's response to this situation has been lamentable. It has highlighted the sore need to rebuild our armed forces to reflect and enable the strength and ability of those who serve. We welcome the commitment to increased defence spending, but, if we only plan to get to 2·5% by 2027, that is not enough. It is unfortunate that successive Governments have failed to increase defence spending adequately. We will continue to urge the Government to go faster in that regard.”
“Diplomacy has routinely failed. Iran continues to seek to enrich uranium far beyond what is required for civil uses. It has restored the capacity to produce over 170 long-range missiles a month. It has continued to weaponise terrorist proxies across the region against Israel, against shipping in the region and against allies. Members here talk of UN charters, but I have to ask what the UN has done to meaningfully change the destiny of the Iranian people, including the women of Iran, as they have been slaughtered. Fancy words, tough talk and harsh letters have proven fruitless. The peaceful, democratic solutions have not led to the freedom of the Iranian people, just as UN peacekeepers in southern Lebanon have proved as useful as a chocolate fireguard in defending the communities of Israel from Hezbollah attack.”
“You do not get to say, though, that you are championing women's rights, sending love and light, no doubt, across the globe, when you then come to this place and repeat Iranian talking points in order to frustrate the hopes of the women of Iran, and the people of Iran generally, to throw off the shackles of an extreme Shiite Islamist regime. <BR /> <BR />The Iranian regime has, for decades, sought to destabilise the Middle East, foster terror and hold millions of voices in chains. Many thousands of ordinary people caught between oppression and fear will privately be celebrating the weakening of a regime that has silenced dissent and crushed protest with lethal force. Talk of "self-determination" in the motion is disingenuous or, at best, naive nonsense.”
“A number of players in the region have human rights issues to respond to.”
“It is, however, astounding to me that nationalists, some of whom I hear at the Education Committee each week railing against faith and culture in our schools, find themselves committing to apologism for an oppressive Islamic regime whose vile treatment of women is a matter of record and whose oppression and murder of their own people has been witnessed at its most acute in recent months. Those murders were, largely, carried out by the IRGC. The IRGC targets not only its own people but Jewish communities here in the UK, and the UK Government should not hesitate to designate it as a terrorist organisation. <BR /> <BR />It seems that loathing of Israel is so great that even the most evil of actors can be excused. Before Members opposite intervene to distance themselves from that, let me be clear: this is apologism for the status quo in Iran.”
“They might ask how loud or visible Sinn Féin was when Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was mass-murdering tens of thousands of his own citizens in recent months for dissenting. <BR /> <BR />In Northern Ireland, we know all too well the cost of violence and the perils of extremism. We recognise that there comes a time when action must be taken against those who reject peace and embrace intimidation. We understand the anguish of communities that face threats from militias backed by Tehran. We know the fear felt by Jewish communities who are under constant missile bombardment from Iranian proxies. <BR /> <BR />I disagree with nationalists on Palestine, and, having witnessed last week the uncensored filming of some of the barbarity that Iranian proxies carried out on 7 October, I know with whom I stand.”
“No, I will not. <BR /> <BR />I watched the parade just across from the memorial to those who lost their lives in the Bayardo Bar bomb attack. The families who lost loved ones in those two tragedies might ask what business Sinn Féin, which continues to lionise those who murdered men, women and children, has feigning some respect for life, law and peace. The motion states that the Assembly:”
“At the outset, I declare my previously registered visit to Israel through the Israeli embassy in London. <BR /> <BR />The text of the motion is dripping in Sinn Féin's sanctimonious hypocrisy to which we have become far too desensitised in the Chamber. It is a party that has had a private army, which bombed, murdered and maimed in this place, yet it wishes to lecture the rest of us on international law and diplomacy. <BR /> <BR />On Saturday, I was on the Shankill Road for a St Patrick's Day event, and I passed the site of the Shankill bomb.”
“What the action certainly has done is degrade Iran's ability to strike other countries in the region. It has taken out around 80% of Iran's missile launch pads and degraded its ability to enrich uranium above 60%, which is not needed at a civil level. There are many ways in which it has made Iran a much lesser threat to countries in the region and others across the world.”
“The Member engages in humanitarian causes across the world, and I understand that she has a passion for that. Has she not seen, as I have, the thousands of people on the streets of Iran and across the world celebrating the death of the ayatollah? Has she not seen what it meant to them and the freedom that, they hope, will come from that at some stage? Conflict is the only way in which an ayatollah — a supreme leader — will be removed, whether that is as a result of domestic or other powers.”
“I thank the Minister for his answer. I also thank him for everything that he is doing to address housing need. I can only hope that other Ministers live up to the promises that their parties like to make in relation to addressing social housing need, so let us see them put their money where their mouth is. How much funding is proposed for the social housing development programme (SHDP) in the draft Budget, and is it aligned with the Programme for Government targets?”
“Those commitments provide important reassurance that the response to the judgement will respect the law and safeguard the place of Christianity in our education system. <BR /> <BR />The message of the petition is simple: people across Northern Ireland and, indeed, the UK value the Christian heritage of our schools and want to see it protected, respected and carried forward for future generations. I therefore commend the petition to the House.”
“<BR /> <BR />I spoke to Zuzana this morning. She has followed events in the Assembly and been reassured by the response of the Education Minister, Paul Givan, who has set out a measured and balanced way forward. The Minister has confirmed that Christianity will remain central to the religious education syllabus, reflecting Northern Ireland's historical and cultural context, while the curriculum is reviewed to ensure that it is academically robust and consistent with the court's judgement. <BR /> <BR />Those who have signed the petition will be thankful that the Minister has brought clarity by stating that collective worship will continue in schools and that the review process will involve consultation with Churches, teachers, parents and the wider community.”
“Our schools were built not only to provide academic learning but to nurture moral character, service to others and respect for the traditions that have shaped our society. Many of those who signed the petition feared that, in response to the court's ruling, forthcoming reforms could unintentionally weaken or marginalise Christian teaching, even in schools that were founded with a clear Christian ethos and identity. <BR /> <BR />The petitioners are not calling for exclusion or intolerance; they are asking that Christianity continue to have a respected and meaningful place in education, reflecting Northern Ireland's historical, cultural and legal foundations. They are asking for parents' rights, including the right to have their children educated in accordance with their convictions and beliefs, to be respected.”
“Today, I present a public petition on behalf of Zuzana Revayova of CitizenGo. It had been signed by over 68,000 people from across Northern Ireland and beyond when it was given to me, and it is now nearing 100,000 signatures online. The petition expresses deep concern about the future place of Christianity and the Christian ethos in our schools. The petition arose in the wake of the UK Supreme Court’s ruling on religious education and collective worship, a judgement that prompted understandable anxiety among many parents, teachers, Churches and local communities. <BR /> <BR />For generations, Christian faith and values have played a foundational role in shaping education in Northern Ireland.”
“Undoubtedly, they would then know why, across the Israeli political spectrum and the Israeli people, while different views exist on the conflict, there is unison in the determination that that will not be allowed to happen again and that whatever is required to prevent it must be done.”
“<BR /> <BR />Watching that footage should not be undertaken lightly, but there are Members in the Chamber who, I wish, should take such an opportunity: those who have criticisms of both sides in that conflict and those who have, frankly, been apologists for Palestinian terrorism by whatever name they choose to call it. They may well draw attention to scenes from Gaza, with which, I imagine, they are much more familiar, but I wonder how anyone who had seen that footage would be able to quite so enthusiastically defend Hamas, PIJ or the many ordinary Palestinians who joined the attack that day.”
“A father panicked, guiding his young sons, all in their underwear, to a small safe room in the garden, where a big, brave Hamas terrorist — the people, perhaps, whom Gerry Carroll referred to as "the Palestinian Resistance" — seconds later, threw in a hand grenade to murder and maim. Heads were removed by shovels to gleeful chants and cheers; they were played with, and orders were given to take photos. I could not watch that scene, but, even as I turned my eyes away, it was clear what was about to happen. Women with their clothes torn from them were lifted like a prize to be showcased on the streets of Gaza from the back of trucks to celebratory cheers. Supposedly ordinary civilians but, in my opinion, animals — vermin — kicked at the lifeless bodies.”
“I am glad that I took the opportunity to confront that, even if some of it will stay with those of us who watched it for a long time and even if I had to avert my eyes on a number of occasions from the sheer barbarity of what was carried out. <BR /> <BR />Children, parents and grandparents — ordinary people living ordinary lives — were murdered in their beds and kitchens, burned in cars and, of course, murdered at a music festival by what I can only describe as animals, who, with demonic zeal, chanted "Allahu Akbar", declared themselves heroes and called their families to boast of killing their first Jew or about how many they had killed. One repeatedly told his parents on the phone, "I've killed 10, I've killed 10: your son is a hero".”
“Yesterday, this place marked European Remembrance Day for Victims of Terrorism, which takes place tomorrow. I was unable to attend the event, but I take this opportunity to say that I stand in solidarity with the innocent victims represented yesterday and, in particular, with those who still await justice. <BR /> <BR />Speaking of innocent victims of terrorism, also yesterday, I, along with a number of other representatives, had the opportunity — one that, I have to say, I was conflicted about taking — to see some unedited footage of the Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) attacks on Israel on October 7. I saw the horrors of terrorism that can be wrought upon innocent people living their everyday lives.”