Alison Johnstone
No Party Affiliation · Scotland
“We will use the same voting procedure as before. Members voted by secret ballot. The Presiding Officer: Voting in this round of the Presiding Officer election is closed. I invite the scrutineers to proceed to the back of the chamber for the counting of votes. Again, candidates may also observe the count.”
“I now invite any scrutineers appointed by the candidates to go to the back of the chamber to observe the counting of ballot papers. Candidates may also observe the count.”
“The first meeting of the seventh session of the Parliament is resumed. I have received four valid nominations for the position of Presiding Officer. I shall now announce the nominations and ask all candidates, as their names are announced, to make themselves known to the chamber.”
“Ballot papers should be marked with an X before being folded and then placed in one of the ballot boxes provided at the rear of the chamber. At the end of each voting period, I shall invite any scrutineers that have been nominated by each candidate to monitor the counting of votes at the back of the chamber, which is where clerks will emp…”
“Members should remain in their seats until I invite them to collect their ballot paper from clerks at the back of the chamber. Members with surnames beginning with the letters A to F should collect their ballot papers from the desk on my left at the back of the chamber—the clerks there have their hands up.”
“15:29 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: This voting period is now open, using the same voting procedure as before. Members voted by secret ballot. The Presiding Officer: Voting in the third round of the election of the Presiding Officer is closed.”
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“I am minded to accept a motion without notice, under rule 11.2.4 of standing orders, that decision time be brought forward to now. I invite the Minister for Parliamentary Business to move the motion. Motion moved, That, under Rule 11.2.4, Decision Time be brought forward to 4.59 pm.—[Graeme Dey] Motion agreed to. Decision Time 16:59”
“Friendships were forged, some of which survive to this day. This session has been a more combative—some might say toxic—setting than previous sessions, and I know that I am not alone in thinking that the inability to have an extended, wide-ranging cross-party induction process as a consequence of Covid laid some of the foundations for that. I am aware that Parliament has plans to ensure that the offering for new members will be far better. That will surely help our committee conveners and this institution as they seek to ensure that our committees become as effective as they have the potential to be. The Presiding Officer: I call Ruth Maguire, on behalf of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee, to wind up the debate and take us to 5 pm. 16:48”
“It is important that committees see their role not just as scrutinising legislation and holding the Government to account, because there is so much more for them to do. I hope that the focus on committee effectiveness that the inquiry has instigated leads to the committees in the next session of Parliament kicking on. However, in order that the conveners of those committees, elected or otherwise, are able to oversee the committees and be at their best, the assistance of an optimal induction process for new members will be required. This session of Parliament has been different from the session when I entered Parliament, in 2011. In the early years of that period, I found myself working constructively on committees with cross-party colleagues such as Alex Fergusson, Jim Hume, Claudia Beamish and John Scott.”
“I also think back to my time as the deputy convener of the Rural Affairs, Climate Change and Environment Committee, when we conducted an inquiry into the way in which supermarkets treat Scotland’s food producers. One leading supermarket indicated that it would not attend the committee. Under the leadership of Rob Gibson, we explored how we could seek to compel its attendance—something that had never been done by the Parliament at that point but that had unanimous cross-party support in the committee. In the end, we settled for advising the supermarket concerned that it would be empty-chaired, which was a bit unusual for a parliamentary committee. The supermarket attended, and the session was much more productive in shining a light on the issue.”
“The qualities that are needed include the ability to foster the right culture and atmosphere in the committee, so that the outcomes of its work are evidence based rather than partial. In the report, there is a reference to innovative working, and the committees of the Parliament could build on the foundations established here over the past 25 or 26 years. A moment ago, I spoke about the joint inquiry into aquaculture in the previous session of Parliament, which was carried out by the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee and the Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee, and which was led by Edward Mountain. That combined effort really added to the status of the report, because it was two committees of the Parliament coming together.”
“I served a three-year apprenticeship as a deputy convener, and I would not have been as effective a convener as I—immodestly—think that I was without that experience behind me. However, I do not say that to suggest that only seasoned MSPs ought to be in the frame to be conveners, as people will enter here with the skill set required and suitable experience gained elsewhere. I saw that during my brief spell on the Education, Children and Young People Committee under Sue Webber, whom George Adam rightly commended for her approach to chairing. I suggest, from my own experience—again, I stress that I am not speaking on behalf of the Government here—that if the Parliament is to elect its conveners, the approach to be taken should be similar to that which underpins selecting a Presiding Officer, which is getting the best person for the job.”
“To answer Stephen Kerr’s question, the right leadership of committees can foster an environment in which all members become better focused on doing the work of a member of a committee as opposed to the work of a party member. Ruth Maguire: I understand why the minister might balk at the concept of a popularity contest, but will he reflect on whether the skills that mean that a member can convince their colleagues to vote for them—that make them the most popular choice—are the skills that a member requires to be a good convener who can reach out to people with different views and bring folk together? Graeme Dey: That would require the members who were making the choice to consider that to be the optimal factor in the decision-making process.”
“Ruth Maguire: Will the member take an intervention? Graeme Dey: I will make a little bit of progress. I reflect with pride on the fact that, during my time as convener of the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee, we required a division only once. We did some important work that sometimes challenged the Government, and I do not think that Roseanna Cunningham, the environment secretary at the time, reckoned that she got an easy time from the committee. Indeed, she often told me—in her inimitable way—that the opposite was true. The close working between my committee and the Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee, which was led by Edward Mountain, to deliver a joint report on aquaculture placed me at odds with the then rural secretary. However, that was as it should be.”
“If the Parliament was to decide to go down that road, the process of electing conveners should not be a popularity contest, nor, when the convener is to be drawn from the ranks of the governing party or parties, should it be about picking the person who is viewed as most likely to be a thorn in the side of the Government. Paul Sweeney: Does the member agree that the role should be rooted in respect and having authority on the subject? The Constitution Society reviewed the system in the UK Parliament and concluded that “changes in the system have elevated the profile and status of select committees in Parliament and government”. If we did it in that way, it would be a great opportunity. Graeme Dey: I am not sure that it is about experience, because someone can build their experience. It is about the skill set of the individual.”
“I recount that because it highlights that being a truly effective convener requires the individual concerned to rise above their party political instincts—whatever their political persuasion—and seek to bring a team ethos to the committee, recognising the leadership role. I made it clear in my opening statement that the Scottish Government does not take a position on the election of committee conveners. I want to stress that point again before I move on to offer further personal views. I have seen the evidence that the committee received that electing conveners might give the job added standing. However, I disagree with Richard Leonard.”
“If I had to choose one takeaway from the pandemic period experience, it would be the determination that was shown by committee members and conveners to function as best they could, in quite extraordinary circumstances, to get through the work programme that was before them. I give particular credit to Adam Tomkins, who led the Justice Committee, and Lewis Macdonald, who led the Health and Sport Committee. Both were from non-Government parties and both placed their responsibilities as convener ahead of party politicking when fulfilling their convening role. There was much to-ing and fro-ing between me, as the minister, and them to reschedule deadlines or to schedule SSIs in a way that aided the committees in their efforts to complete their work programmes during those unprecedented times.”
“The points that I am going to make are not made from the perspective of the Scottish Government, which rightly takes the view that how the Parliament organises itself to carry out its scrutiny functions is a matter for the Parliament. Instead, they are some personal reflections from my 15 years in the Parliament, during which I have served on parliamentary committees as a member, deputy convener and convener. I served for three years in the role of Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans, which coincided with the pandemic, when the Parliament and its committees faced all sorts of never-before- encountered issues in scrutinising and passing legislation. I contend that I rose to that challenge. I therefore hope that my comments will be taken in the constructive manner in which they are intended.”
“Stephen Kerr: That was exactly the point I was going to make, so I do not need to intervene. Edward Mountain: I will wind up my remarks on that note. However, I encourage the taking of such an approach when the next parliamentary session begins. I agree that teaching people how to convene is probably not the best way forward, but teaching them how to use the assets that they have at their disposal—in particular, the skills of the clerks and the staff in all the other parliamentary departments—is important, because it will make them more effective. 16:40 Graeme Dey: The SPPA Committee’s inquiry drew on a range of perspectives, including from conveners past and present. In closing, I hope that I can add to the perspectives of Richard Leonard and Edward Mountain without quite joining their ranks—valuable as I felt their contributions were.”
“On witnesses, in my time as convener of the REC Committee and the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee, I have seen the same old people coming in and giving us almost the same old evidence. I know that the clerks sometimes struggle to find people to appear, and I applaud them for their efforts, but sometimes we need to go further afield. That is why it is important that committee members should get out of the Parliament and visit other areas. For example, the REC Committee went to Mull and various other places to hear from people on the ground. Stephen Kerr: Will the member give way? Edward Mountain: I will, in just a minute. If witnesses are getting money from any sources, it is important that they ensure that that is declared before they appear at a committee meeting. I will take Stephen Kerr’s intervention.”
“Conveners are ably assisted by committee clerks, but when we have to read all the papers and delve down into findings it would sometimes be extremely helpful to have someone to look over them and flag things up. Jackson Carlaw: The point has been made previously that it would be helpful for committee conveners to have additional staff resource. That also points to the importance of continuity and of conveners being there for the whole of a parliamentary session. If they were to move, we would be left with the difficulty of reallocating that resource. That is one of the functions that might come out of having a commitment that, once elected, conveners will be there for the duration of the session. Edward Mountain: As always, Mr Carlaw thinks through the issue and comes up with a justification for a decision that I think is the right one.”
“I would have no problem with standing up and trying to justify why I should be a convener. It might be that a convener should be a member of a particular party, but I do not think that it is right for the party leader to decide who they will be. Although I am a beneficiary of the current system and have enjoyed every moment of my tenure, I think that the approach is ripe for change. It is also important for conveners to stay in post. As I alluded to earlier, there is nothing wrong with a member being a parliamentarian and concentrating their career within the Parliament. If a member is a convener or leading member of a committee, they should be applauded for that, because it is important. On conveners being paid, I do not want extra money, but I would have liked some additional staff budget to assist me with getting ready for meetings.”
“In session 5, there was a chance for our committee to be far more independent in relation to the work that we could undertake. I remember working with the current Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans, who at that time was the convener of another committee, on an aquaculture inquiry that was conducted by two committees. In that session, we had the ability to do that. As a convener in the current session, I have felt a bit like a dog who is thrown a ball and chases it all over the place. Whether it be in relation to land reform or the climate change plan, the committee has had so little time in which we could consider matters outwith the legislation that has been introduced. I absolutely believe that electing committee conveners is the right way forward, and I hope that the Parliament will consider doing so.”
“Absolutely. Paul Sweeney: I did not get to the subject of bill committees versus select committees in the UK Parliament, but in some instances there may be a case for specialised bill committees where a particularly complex bill with many facets does not fit neatly into a silo. Edward Mountain: I am not used to bill committees. However, I note that the majority—or potentially the whole—of the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee’s deliberations between now and the end of the current session will be on the climate change plan, even though there are other matters that we must consider, including a member’s bill and other important issues that fall within the transport portfolio. Therefore, I can see that there might be an argument for having bill committees.”
“They keep on asking for more money, but they will not take the decisions to enable money to be raised. That is pure and utter hypocrisy, and it is what we get from the Conservatives. Scottish Ambulance Service (Waiting Times) 2.”
“The First Minister: I simply point out to Russell Findlay that council tax in Scotland is lower on average than it is for properties in England. That is the position today: council tax is much lower. Furthermore, as I said in my earlier answer, the majority of taxpayers in Scotland are set to pay less than they would elsewhere in the United Kingdom this year, according to the independent Scottish Fiscal Commission. My Government will do what we have always done, which is to bring forward orderly budget provisions relating to tax and spending commitments, so that we can fund our public services and our investments in the Scottish economy. We have heard from Russell Findlay and the Conservatives for a consistent period that they are not prepared to engage in the tough judgments about delivering public services.”
“I will say it once more: most Scottish workers pay more income tax than is paid by those in the rest of the UK. John Swinney’s answers today will not reassure any Scottish home owner or business owner. He will not rule out increasing the tax on buying a home, he will not rule out raising taxes on businesses, and it seems that he is plotting yet another income tax raid on hard-working Scots. On top of all that, the SNP’s plans could result in massive rises in council tax—reportedly as high as £6,500 a year. Raising taxes every year is not sustainable. Workers and businesses cannot afford it. People deserve to keep more of their own hard-earned cash. Should John Swinney not be looking to bring bills down, not hiking them higher, year after year?”
“Of course, the public finances that we provide as a consequence of our decisions pay for different provisions in Scotland. Our decisions mean that university students pay no tuition fees. They mean that there is free bus travel for under- 22s. They mean that no prescription charges are levied in Scotland. They mean that the Scottish child payment is helping to keep children out of poverty, with the level of child poverty falling in Scotland. Yes, there are tax issues to be confronted, but there are also public expenditure decisions that are improving the lives of people in Scotland. Russell Findlay: John Swinney is spinning like a washing machine. Last month, he accused me of misleading the Parliament in what I said, but, in doing so, he misled the Parliament. He is at it again today.”
“Let us hear Mr Findlay. Russell Findlay: People deserve a break, so will John Swinney give a cast-iron guarantee that there will be no further tax rises—whether it is income, business or property tax—in the Scottish budget? The First Minister: Mr Findlay will not be surprised to hear me say that those questions will be answered in the budget when the Scottish Government sets out to the Parliament the commitments that we are going to make. We have asked some people in Scotland to pay more in tax, but I note that the independent Scottish Fiscal Commission has confirmed that the majority of taxpayers in Scotland are set to pay less this year than they would elsewhere in the United Kingdom. That is the judgment of the independent Scottish Fiscal Commission.”
“Let us hear one another. Ivan McKee: Council tax bills in Scotland are many hundreds of pounds cheaper than those south of the border, where the member’s party was in control for most of that period. There are significant savings for Scottish council tax payers. The member should reflect on that and on the fact that his party is never shy to stand up and ask for more investment, but always does so at the same time as calling for tax cuts, which clearly demonstrates its inability to understand fiscal matters. Town Centres (Sustainability) 5.”
“The Presiding Officer: As motion S6M-19421 is a motion to pass a bill, the question must be decided by a division. The next question is, that motion S6M-19421, in the name of Mairi Gougeon, on the Land Reform (Scotland) Bill at stage 3, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. Members should cast their votes now. The vote is closed.”
“Motion, as amended, agreed to, That the Parliament is alarmed by the serious patient safety issues raised in recent inspection reports of maternity services; agrees that a national investigation into the design and delivery of maternity services should take place if Scotland’s new Maternity and Neonatal Taskforce recommends it, and that it should give full consideration to staff and patient welfare; notes that the taskforce will review the findings of Healthcare Improvement Scotland’s inspections into all maternity units in Scotland; recognises that no neonatal unit in Scotland is closing: notes that the new model of neonatal intensive care in Scotland was recommended by the Best Start 2017 report, following robust clinical evidence on the safest and best possible model for the sickest babies; notes that, following the downgrading of the consultant-led maternity unit at Caithness General Hospital in 2016, women in Caithness can face a 100 mile trip down the A9 to Raigmore Hospital in Inverness to give birth, and calls on the Scottish Government to commission an independent review of maternity services in Caithness.”
“For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Patrick Harvie] Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Patrick Harvie] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Ind) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Maggie Chapman] Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Against Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Reform) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Abstentions Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) [Proxy vote cast by Michael Marra] Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on motion S6M-19512, in the name of Jackie Baillie, as amended, is: For 73, Against 27, Abstentions 20.”
“Amendment disagreed to. The Presiding Officer: The next question is, that amendment S6M-19512.1, in the name of Willie Rennie, which seeks to amend motion S6M- 19512, in the name of Jackie Baillie, on Scotland’s maternity services, be agreed to. Amendment agreed to. The Presiding Officer: The next question is, that motion S6M-19512, in the name of Jackie Baillie, on Scotland’s maternity services, as amended, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“For Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) [Proxy vote cast by Michael Marra] Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Reform) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Patrick Harvie] Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Patrick Harvie] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Maggie Chapman] Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on amendment S6M-19512.2, in the name of Sandesh Gulhane, is: For 54, Against 67, Abstentions 0.”
“Amendment agreed to. The Presiding Officer: The next question is, that amendment S6M-19512.2, in the name of Sandesh Gulhane, which seeks to amend motion S6M-19512, in the name of Jackie Baillie, on Scotland’s maternity services, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Patrick Harvie] Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Patrick Harvie] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Maggie Chapman] Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Against Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) [Proxy vote cast by Michael Marra] Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Reform) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on amendment S6M-19512.3, in the name of Neil Gray, is: For 67, Against 53, Abstentions 0.”
“There are seven questions to be put as a result of today’s business. The first question is, that amendment S6M-19512.3, in the name of Neil Gray, which seeks to amend motion S6M-19512, in the name of Jackie Baillie, on Scotland’s maternity services, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“I am minded to accept a motion without notice under rule 11.2.4 of standing orders that decision time be brought forward to now. I invite the Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans to move the motion. Motion moved, That, under Rule 11.2.4, Decision Time be brought forward to 6.57 pm.—[Graeme Dey] Motion agreed to. Decision Time 18:57”
“The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-19421, in the name of Mairi Gougeon, on the Land Reform (Scotland) Bill at stage 3. I would be grateful if members who wish to speak in the debate were to press their request-to-speak buttons. 17:47”
“The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. As this is the first division of stage 3 today, I suspend the meeting for around five minutes to allow members to access the digital voting system. 17:24 Meeting suspended. 17:30 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: We will now proceed with the division on amendment 229. Members should cast their votes now. The vote is closed.”
“The next item of business is stage 3 proceedings on the Land Reform (Scotland) Bill. In dealing with the amendments, members should have before them the bill as amended at stage 2—Scottish Parliament bill 44A—the second marshalled list and the second groupings of amendments. The division bell will sound and proceedings will be suspended for around five minutes for the first division of stage 3. The period of voting for the first division will be 30 seconds; thereafter I will allow a voting period of one minute. Members should now refer to the marshalled list of amendments. Section 23—Rent review: 1991 Act tenancies Amendments 350 to 355 moved—[Douglas Lumsden]—and agreed to. Amendment 229 moved—[Mairi Gougeon]. The Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 229 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.”
“For the mothers, the babies and their families, a national investigation is required into the design and delivery of maternity and neonatal services across Scotland. It is clear that members must vote for the Scottish Labour motion tonight if we are to protect mothers, babies and families in Scotland. Again, I offer my deepest condolences and gratitude to those who have shared their stories and experiences. Without you, change cannot happen. We want change to happen, and it is now over to the Scottish Government. The Presiding Officer: That concludes the debate on Scotland’s maternity services. Land Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3 17:20”
“Many midwives feel that they are at breaking point, and the union is strongly urging the Government to invest in its maternity staff. The task force recommendations need to be implemented, and some investment needs to be put behind that. I urge the Scottish Government to listen to that. Our calls today are clear. For the staff, improvements to workforce planning are desperately needed, to ensure that the maternity wards are sufficiently staffed. We need investment in leadership and in mentorship within midwifery. Many of the solutions already lie with the nursing and midwifery task force, and we support the task force. We want the solutions to be delivered, but that does not need to be done by the task force alone.”
“Much of what has happened there is due to the Scottish Government’s inability to workforce plan effectively, which has left mothers and babies in Stranraer without a maternity unit. Before I close today’s debate, I will take a moment to reflect on some of the calls from the Royal College of Midwives. In response to the Healthcare Improvement Scotland report, the RCM warned that “staff shortages, rising workloads, and a lack of specialist and educator roles in maternity services are placing unsustainable pressure on staff and risking the long-term quality of care.” As other members, including my colleague Michael Marra, have said, the RCM has been urging the Scottish Government to make changes—it has been raising the issue with the Government for years. Systemic challenges are letting down women, their families and the maternity staff.”
“The Galloway community hospital action group, some of whom are listening to the debate today, have fought a powerful campaign against the closure of the maternity unit in Stranraer. That closure means that people have to travel 70 miles to Dumfries, and I have heard from a constituent that the road was flooded and therefore closed today. That causes extra strain and stress to mothers and families in the area. The Patient Safety Commissioner for Scotland met the group only a couple of months ago and felt that there was a gap in the service. That is not what 21st century midwifery care should look like. The Scottish Government has failed to provide adequate oversight for the decision in Wigtownshire. It must look at how it interacts with the integration joint board, and it must listen to the community.”
“It revealed major concerns around culture, oversight of patient safety, and staff wellbeing. Staff reported feelings of frustration, burnout and being ignored. The culture of mistrust that has developed should never be allowed in our NHS. Staff should feel supported, appreciated and listened to, and they should never—ever—feel that they cannot escalate concerns. The duty of candour must be real, and the Government must show leadership in that area. We have heard about the challenges of maternity services—in the interests of time, I will not go over them again. However, in my South Scotland patch, challenges in the Wigtownshire area are beyond what women should have to accept.”
“I have the “Best Start” report in my hands, and I will quote from section 6.4 of the report, which is entitled “Proposed levels of neonatal care in Scotland”: “It is proposed that the current total number of 15 neonatal units is retained, with three to five units being re- profiled as neonatal intensive care units and the remaining 10-12 units being designated as local neonatal units or special care units.” I question why the minimum of three units was chosen rather than five. Does Carol Mochan agree that that is unacceptable? [Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: Let us hear one another. Carol Mochan: I know that many members were shocked to read the findings of last week’s Healthcare Improvement Scotland report, on which many contributions to today’s debate concentrated.”
“The significant adverse event review in NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde recommended measures that needed to be implemented, but the family does not have confidence that they have been. We do not need to wait for a task force to tell us what we already know. It is the minister’s job to ensure that the implementation is done. Does Carol Mochan agree that the minister should get on and do that now? Carol Mochan: I fully agree, and Paul Sweeney will agree with me that we must have a culture of transparency, not secrecy. That comes from the top. Agreeing to our motion would show clear leadership from the top of the Scottish Government. Sandesh Gulhane: Will the member take an intervention? Carol Mochan: If it is short. Sandesh Gulhane: It will be.”
“[Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: Let us hear one another. Patrick Harvie: It would feel inappropriate if the Parliament as a whole was not willing to take yes for an answer. Carol Mochan: I hope that Patrick Harvie will vote for our motion, which is absolutely clear about what the Parliament is looking to deliver today. Any loss or harm in maternity and neonatal services is tragic, especially when deaths could have been prevented. As others have said, such incidents are rare and the majority of the women have a safe and good experience when giving birth, but that does not diminish the experience of those who do not. Paul Sweeney: I thank my friend for giving way. We met earlier with my constituents, the Keegan family, who lost their baby, Mason, to sepsis at just three days old. That was entirely avoidable.”
“I remind members of the requirement to speak through the chair at all times. Carol Mochan: I do not think that what the minister has said is clear. I hope that Patrick Harvie has listened hard to what has been said, because we thought deeply about what to ask for. We understand what has been said about the task force, but it has not been implemented. We understand that the task force will be headed by the minister, but how can we be sure about what will happen? Patrick Harvie: Once again, I pay tribute to Labour for lodging its motion and making the argument for a national investigation. However, in the minister’s closing speech, we have heard a clear statement that this is now only a matter of framing the investigation and of how it will be taken forward, not whether it will be taken forward.”
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“We move to decision time. The question is, that motion S6M-19487, in the name of Bob Doris, on the Social Justice and Social Security Committee’s report on financial considerations when leaving an abusive relationship, be agreed to. Motion agreed to, That the Parliament notes the Social Justice and Social Security Committee’s 6th Report, 2025 (Session 6), Inquiry Into Financial Considerations When Leaving an Abusive Relationship (SP Paper 849). Meeting closed at 22:00. This is the final edition of the Official Report for this meeting. It is part of the Scottish Parliament Official Report archive and has been sent for legal deposit.”
“Amendment 97 disagreed to. Section 13—Compensation for disturbance on resumption Amendment 98 moved—[Edward Mountain]. The Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 98 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. The vote is closed.”
“For Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Patrick Harvie] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) [Proxy vote cast by Michael Marra] Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Maggie Chapman] Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 25, Against 88, Abstentions 0.”
“Amendment 96 disagreed to. Amendment 97 moved—[Edward Mountain]. The Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 97 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”