Alison Johnstone
No Party Affiliation · Scotland
“We will use the same voting procedure as before. Members voted by secret ballot. The Presiding Officer: Voting in this round of the Presiding Officer election is closed. I invite the scrutineers to proceed to the back of the chamber for the counting of votes. Again, candidates may also observe the count.”
“I now invite any scrutineers appointed by the candidates to go to the back of the chamber to observe the counting of ballot papers. Candidates may also observe the count.”
“The first meeting of the seventh session of the Parliament is resumed. I have received four valid nominations for the position of Presiding Officer. I shall now announce the nominations and ask all candidates, as their names are announced, to make themselves known to the chamber.”
“Ballot papers should be marked with an X before being folded and then placed in one of the ballot boxes provided at the rear of the chamber. At the end of each voting period, I shall invite any scrutineers that have been nominated by each candidate to monitor the counting of votes at the back of the chamber, which is where clerks will emp…”
“Members should remain in their seats until I invite them to collect their ballot paper from clerks at the back of the chamber. Members with surnames beginning with the letters A to F should collect their ballot papers from the desk on my left at the back of the chamber—the clerks there have their hands up.”
“15:29 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: This voting period is now open, using the same voting procedure as before. Members voted by secret ballot. The Presiding Officer: Voting in the third round of the election of the Presiding Officer is closed.”
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“Thank you, Mr Mason. I would say that, in the first instance, that is a matter for the committee itself and for its convener. Celebrating 50 Years of Summerston”
“Amendment disagreed to. The Presiding Officer: The next question is, that motion S6M-17785, in the name of Kate Forbes, on empowering entrepreneurs and innovators, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. The vote is closed.”
“For Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Ross Greer] McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Alba) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay] Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn] McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on amendment S6M-17785.2, in the name of Daniel Johnson, is: For 55, Against 57, Abstentions 0.”
“Amendment disagreed to. The Presiding Officer: The next question is, that amendment S6M-17785.2, in the name of Daniel Johnson, which seeks to amend motion S6M-17785, in the name of Kate Forbes, on empowering entrepreneurs and innovators, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“For Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay] Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn] McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Alba) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on amendment S6M-17785.3, in the name of Murdo Fraser, is: For 28, Against 83, Abstentions 0.”
“There are four questions to be put as a result of today’s business. The first question is, that amendment S6M-17785.3, in the name of Murdo Fraser, which seeks to amend motion S6M-17785, in the name of Kate Forbes, on empowering entrepreneurs and innovators, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system. 17:01 Meeting suspended. 17:03 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: We come to the vote on amendment S6M-17785.3, in the name of Murdo Fraser, which seeks to amend motion S6M-17785, in the name of Kate Forbes. Members should cast their votes now.”
“The next item of business is consideration of two Parliamentary Bureau motions. I ask Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move motions S6M-17802 on approval of a Scottish statutory instrument, and S6M-17803 on committee meeting times. Motions moved, That the Parliament agrees that the Regional Strategic Bodies and Regional Colleges (Glasgow and Lanarkshire) Order 2025 [draft] be approved. That the Parliament agrees that, under Rule 12.3.3B of Standing Orders, the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee can meet, if necessary, at the same time as a meeting of the Parliament between 1.00 pm and 3.30 pm on Thursday 12 June 2025.—[Jamie Hepburn] The Presiding Officer: The question on the motions will be put at decision time. Decision Time 17:00”
“The next item of business is consideration of business motion S6M-17801, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a business programme. Motion moved, That the Parliament agrees— (a) the following programme of business— Tuesday 10 June 2025 2.00 pm Time for Reflection followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Topical Questions (if selected) followed by Stage 3 Proceedings: Care Reform (Scotland) Bill followed by Committee Announcements followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 7.00 pm Decision Time followed by Members’ Business Wednesday 11 June 2025 2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.00 pm Portfolio Questions: Deputy First Minister Responsibilities, Economy and Gaelic; Finance and Local Government followed by Scottish Labour Party Business followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Approval of SSIs (if required) 5.10 pm Decision Time followed by Members’ Business Thursday 12 June 2025 11.40 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions 11.40 am General Questions 12.00 pm First Minister’s Questions followed by Members’ Business 2.30 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.30 pm Portfolio Questions: Net Zero and Energy, and Transport followed by Ministerial Statement: Greenhouse Gas Emissions Statistics 2023 followed by Scottish Government Debate: A Migration System that Works for Scotland followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 5.00 pm Decision Time Tuesday 17 June 2025 2.00 pm Time for Reflection followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Topical Questions (if selected) followed by Stage 3 Proceedings: Scottish Languages Bill followed by Committee Announcements followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 5.00 pm Decision Time followed by Members’ Business Wednesday 18 June 2025 2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.00 pm Portfolio Questions: Rural Affairs, Land Reform and Islands; Health and Social Care followed by Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party Business followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Approval of SSIs (if required) 5.10 pm Decision Time followed by Members’ Business Thursday 19 June 2025 11.40 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions 11.40 am General Questions 12.00 pm First Minister’s Questions followed by Members’ Business 2.15 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.15 pm Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Questions followed by Portfolio Questions: Social Justice followed by Scottish Government Business followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 5.00 pm Decision Time (b) that, for the purposes of Portfolio Questions in the week beginning 9 June 2025, in rule 13.7.3, after the word “except” the words “to the extent to which the Presiding Officer considers that the questions are on the same or similar subject matter or” are inserted.—[Jamie Hepburn] Motion agreed to.”
“Ms Slater has 10 seconds left. Lorna Slater: My apologies. I will wrap up. Inclusive ownership is one of the five pillars of community wealth building that the Scottish Government has accepted. Let us think again about what a start-up can be, who benefits, who is building for the long term and who is creating wealth that stays in our communities. 15:56”
“Mr Ross, first of all, that has not happened, and, again, this is not the place to discuss diary appointments. We will now move on to members’ business. Combating Commercial Sexual Exploitation”
“Motion agreed to, That the Parliament welcomes the Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee’s 1st Report, 2025 (Session 6), A blueprint for participation - embedding deliberative democracy in the work of the Scottish Parliament (SP Paper 789), including the blueprint for this work in Session 7 with a view to making the use of such panels a regular feature of committee scrutiny from Session 7 onwards; endorses the principles for the future use of deliberative democracy that are set out in the blueprint, and acknowledges the work already being done by Parliament staff to develop and improve engagement methods. The Presiding Officer: That concludes decision time. Point of Order 17:03”
“There is one question to be put as a result of today’s business. The question is, that motion S6M-17733, in the name of Jackson Carlaw, on behalf of the Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee, on “A blueprint for participation—embedding deliberative democracy in the work of the Scottish Parliament”, be agreed to.”
“Carry on, Mr Ross. Douglas Ross: Thank you. I have provided that information, which shows that, last Thursday and this week, I made requests to meet with you. Therefore, have you reflected on your comments that you have received no invitations to meet with me, and on the comments that you made in the chamber earlier, and have you reflected on rule 8.17 of our standing orders? The Presiding Officer: Mr Ross, I have responded to your earlier points of order. With regard to the latter point, the chamber is not the place to discuss diary arrangements. That would not happen in any other Parliament in these isles; it is not happening in this Parliament. Douglas Ross: Further to that point of order— The Presiding Officer: No, Mr Ross. I am asking you to sit down. I have responded to your point. Decision Time 17:02”
“That concludes the debate on “A blueprint for participation—embedding deliberative democracy in the work of the Scottish Parliament”, on behalf of the Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee. Point of Order 17:01”
“I call David Torrance to wind up the debate on behalf of the Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee. 15:42”
“The next item of business is a statement by Alasdair Allan on a just transition for Aberdeen and the north-east. The minister will take questions at the end of his statement, so there should be no interventions or interruptions. 14:16”
“Mr Ross, points of order are to ascertain whether proper procedures are being or have been followed in the chamber. Therefore, the point that you have raised is not a point of order. Just Transition (Aberdeen and North-east Scotland)”
“Douglas Ross: Further to that point of order— The Presiding Officer: We are not having a conversation. I will not address point of order after point of order. There is important business that the Parliament has voted and agreed to attend to this afternoon. It is very important that we do so. There are members from all parties who wish to take part in debates and to put questions. Thank you. Topical Question Time 14:06 Rolls-Royce Submarines (Scottish Enterprise Funding) 1.”
“Douglas Ross: I was waiting to be called by the Presiding Officer, as stipulated in the standing orders, but, if you are closing down all my attempts to raise this matter and you are refusing to meet me, how can you be acting in a neutral manner and treating all members equally, as you are required to do under rule 3.1.3 of this Parliament? The Presiding Officer: Mr Ross, as far as I am aware, I have not received a request to specifically meet with you. With regard to the points that you are making, in this chair I treat all members equally and I act in the interests of all members of the Parliament. Douglas Ross: Further to that point of order— The Presiding Officer: Mr Ross, I have addressed your point of order. There are other items of business that the Parliament has agreed to address today.”
“Mr Ross, please sit down. That is not a point of order. Thank you. Douglas Ross: On a point of order, Presiding Officer. The Presiding Officer: If it is on the same matter, Mr Ross, I have already ruled that I am not discussing matters that are outwith the standing orders in this chamber. Thank you. Douglas Ross: On a point of order, Presiding Officer. The Presiding Officer: Carry on. Douglas Ross: Under rule 3.1.3, you must act in a neutral manner. If a member believes— The Presiding Officer: Mr Ross, please sit down. I have acted in a neutral manner. I have addressed the point of order on Thursday and I will not continue to have a dialogue in the chamber about when I am meeting you. Douglas Ross: On a point of order, Presiding Officer. The Presiding Officer: Carry on, Mr Ross.”
“You don’t have to make your subject and your verb agree to serve. ... You only need a heart full of grace”. Point of Order 14:03”
“However, I think that whatever ideas we are drawn towards will always be lacking if we cannot come from a place of service. In my tradition—the Christian tradition—service allows for humility and seeing value in the other. Humility is not a synonym for weakness—it gives one strength and confidence to see the worth and value of others, regardless of which political community they come from. Leadership that understands service allows others to rise and even shows wisdom when it allows advancement of others ahead of ourselves. Is this way of service possible in complex times? It is tricky. But it is always good to conclude hopefully, so I leave you with a quotation from Dr Martin Luther King: “everybody can be great ... because everybody can serve. You don’t have to have a college degree to serve.”
“However, I was left with a rather particular question: “Why are we leaders?” On one level, both you and I can answer that quite quickly and simply. You have a mandate from the electorate, and I have the approval of a congregation, a bishop and even, one supposes, the Holy Spirit. Is one better than the other? We can arm wrestle over that one later. Those work as answers, but, although they may be necessary as to why we are leaders, I do not think that they are sufficient. What is it about me or you that would allow us to lead anything, let alone our respective constituencies? I think that the answer comes in how we see leadership. We can present vision and authority and we can offer encouragement, innovation, strategy and ethics. Those things can bestow greatness if we get them right.”
“Good afternoon. The first item of business is time for reflection, and our leader today is the Rev Mark Goodman, rector, St Columba’s Scottish Episcopal Church, Largs. The Rev Mark Goodman (Rector, St Columba’s Scottish Episcopal Church, Largs): Presiding Officer and members of the Scottish Parliament, I bring greetings from North Ayrshire and I thank you for the opportunity to address you this afternoon. Shortly before leaving teaching in Lincolnshire three years ago to return to Scotland and a new church ministry in Largs, I emailed the headteachers and principal of the group of schools for which I worked. I was returning to a new role in leadership and I asked them to list for me their best reads on leadership. They duly replied, and I read what they sent to me. There were some useful ideas.”
“I call Jenni Minto to speak to and move the motion. 16:22”
“A freedom of information release last year revealed that “The Scottish Government received £97.1 million in Barnett consequentials following the UK Government’s announcement in March 2020 to remediate” non-aluminium composite material—non-ACM— cladding systems “on residential buildings ... where leaseholders would incur the costs or where the costs were a threat to the financial stability of the social housing provider.” I mistook that cladding system for RAAC, so I would like to correct the record. The Presiding Officer: Thank you, Mr Hoy, for that clarification. It is not a point of order, but it is on the record. Tobacco and Vapes Bill The Presiding Officer: The next item of business is consideration of legislative consent motion S6M-17708, in the name of Jenni Minto, on the Tobacco and Vapes Bill, which is United Kingdom legislation.”
“The minister can answer only on questions for which he has devolved responsibility. If he wishes to address the question in that regard, he may do so. Ivan McKee: I will reiterate what I have said. The Scottish Government continues to engage with Aberdeen City Council and councils across the country to discuss the financial flexibilities that can be afforded through funds that are available to support homeowners. We will continue to do that. The Presiding Officer: That concludes the ministerial statement. Craig Hoy: On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I seek to put this on the record and to find out from you how the record can be corrected.”
“The minister will now take questions on the issues raised in his statement. I intend to allow around 20 minutes for those questions, after which we will move on to the next item of business. Members who wish to put a question should press their request-to-speak buttons.”
“There are nine questions to be put as a result of today’s business. The first question is, that amendment S6M-17669.3, in the name of Jenny Gilruth, which seeks to amend motion S6M-17669, in the name of Willie Rennie, on a new plan for Scotland’s teaching workforce, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system. 17:12 Meeting suspended. 17:15 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: We move to the vote on amendment S6M-17669.3, in the name of Jenny Gilruth, which seeks to amend motion S6M-17669, in the name of Willie Rennie. Members should cast their votes now. The vote is closed.”
“That the Parliament agrees that the Social Justice and Social Security Committee be designated as the lead committee in consideration of the Wellbeing and Sustainable Development (Scotland) Bill at stage 1.— [Jamie Hepburn] The Presiding Officer: The question on the motions will be put at decision time. Decision Time 17:12”
“The next item of business is consideration of three Parliamentary Bureau motions. I ask Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move motions S6M-17703, S6M-17704 and S6M-17705, on designation of lead committees. Motions moved, That the Parliament agrees that the Criminal Justice Committee be designated as the lead committee in consideration of the Prostitution (Offences and Support) (Scotland) Bill at stage 1. That the Parliament agrees that the Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee be designated as the lead committee in consideration of the Desecration of War Memorials (Scotland) Bill at stage 1.”
“The Presiding Officer: The next item of business is consideration of business motion S6M- 17702, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on extension of a stage 2 timetable. Motion moved, That the Parliament agrees that consideration of the Housing (Scotland) Bill at stage 2 be extended to 6 June 2025. Motion agreed to. Parliamentary Bureau Motions 17:11”
“The next item of business is consideration of business motion S6M-17701, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a business programme. Motion moved, That the Parliament agrees— (a) the following programme of business— Tuesday 3 June 2025 2.00 pm Time for Reflection followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Topical Questions (if selected) followed by Ministerial Statement: A Just Transition for Aberdeen and the North East followed by Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee Debate: A Blueprint for Participation - Embedding Deliberative Democracy in the Work of the Scottish Parliament followed by Committee Announcements followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 5.00 pm Decision Time followed by Members’ Business Wednesday 4 June 2025 2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.00 pm Portfolio Questions: Constitution, External Affairs and Culture, and Parliamentary Business; Justice and Home Affairs; Education and Skills followed by Scottish Government Debate: Empowering Entrepreneurs and Innovators followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Approval of SSIs (if required) 5.00 pm Decision Time followed by Members’ Business Thursday 5 June 2025 11.40 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions 11.40 am General Questions 12.00 pm First Minister’s Questions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 12.45 pm Decision Time followed by Members’ Business Tuesday 10 June 2025 2.00 pm Time for Reflection followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Topical Questions (if selected) followed by Stage 3 Proceedings: Care Reform (Scotland) Bill followed by Committee Announcements followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 7.00 pm Decision Time followed by Members’ Business Wednesday 11 June 2025 2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.00 pm Portfolio Questions: Deputy First Minister Responsibilities, Economy and Gaelic; Finance and Local Government followed by Scottish Labour Party Business followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Approval of SSIs (if required) 5.10 pm Decision Time followed by Members’ Business Thursday 12 June 2025 11.40 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions 11.40 am General Questions 12.00 pm First Minister's Questions followed by Members’ Business 2.30 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.30 pm Portfolio Questions: Net Zero and Energy, and Transport followed by Scottish Government Business followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 5.00 pm Decision Time (b) that, for the purposes of Portfolio Questions in the week beginning 2 June 2025, in rule 13.7.3, after the word “except” the words “to the extent to which the Presiding Officer considers that the questions are on the same or similar subject matter or” are inserted.—[Jamie Hepburn] Motion agreed to.”
“This is the final edition of the Official Report for this meeting. It is part of the Scottish Parliament Official Report archive and has been sent for legal deposit. Published in Edinburgh by the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body, the Scottish Parliament, Edinburgh, EH99 1SP All documents are available on the Scottish Parliament website at: www.parliament.scot Information on non-endorsed print suppliers is available here: www.parliament.scot/documents For information on the Scottish Parliament contact Public Information on: Telephone: 0131 348 5000 Textphone: 0800 092 7100 Email: sp.info@parliament.scot”
“There is one question to be put as a result of today’s business. The question is, that motion S6M-17661, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on committee meeting times, be agreed to. Motion agreed to, That the Parliament agrees that, under Rule 12.3.3B of Standing Orders, the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee can meet, if necessary, at the same time as a meeting of the Parliament on— (a) Tuesday 27 May 2025 between approximately 2.20 pm and close of business, and (b) Thursday 29 May 2025 between 1.00 pm and Decision Time, with the exception of during Portfolio Questions and the Ministerial Statement: Responding to RAAC in the Public Sector Across Scotland. The Presiding Officer: That concludes decision time. Meeting closed at 17:00.”
“The next item of business is consideration of Parliamentary Bureau motion S6M-17661, on committee meeting times. Motion moved, That the Parliament agrees that, under Rule 12.3.3B of Standing Orders, the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee can meet, if necessary, at the same time as a meeting of the Parliament on— (a) Tuesday 27 May 2025 between approximately 2.20 pm and close of business, and (b) Thursday 29 May 2025 between 1.00 pm and Decision Time, with the exception of during Portfolio Questions and the Ministerial Statement: Responding to RAAC in the Public Sector Across Scotland.—[Jamie Hepburn] The Presiding Officer: The question on the motion will be put at decision time. Decision Time 17:00”
“We would love to be represented on all committees, but every one of our members is currently on at least two committees, which is a heavy workload. It is something to think about. We have heard repeatedly about uneven workloads, with some committees being heavily burdened and others underburdened. I am interested in the New Zealand Parliament, which, like the Scottish Parliament, is a unicameral legislature with an additional member system. It has only 120 members and yet it supports around 20 committees—a mix of subject and specialist committees. Perhaps we can learn from other countries—I do not know whether there is anything to learn there—about how to share the burden out and how to set up specialist committees so that we can be more effective with the resources that we have. 16:38”
“I had much more to say about legislative impact and post-legislative scrutiny, and on things such as elected convenerships, but I am afraid that I will have to leave it there. 16:37 Lorna Slater: I do not have much more to add to my opening remarks, which I really managed to crank through. What I have heard today is cross- party agreement that we would all welcome continuous improvement. We could all reflect on how to ensure that we and our fellow committee members understand topics better, for example by taking the time to read the papers properly or coming up with our own questions. Parties may need to think about that when they are nominating people to committees. I am interested in the conversation around smaller committees and the d’Hondt system. Being part of a smaller party, I am torn on that matter.”
“Some of the personnel on the committee have changed but, last month, the deputy convener publicly described the Supreme Court’s decision and, by implication, its senior judges, as being motivated by “bigotry, prejudice and hatred”. That was not a critique of the legal arguments involved. It was, I believe, a smear on the judiciary. Such rhetoric from a senior figure, charged with upholding equality standards, has brought the Parliament into disrepute and exposed the lack of checks and accountability in our committee system. The problem is clear. When committees scrutinise legislation and then mark their own homework in post-legislative review, we get defensiveness and not learning. I am running out of time, Presiding Officer.”
“The conduct of committees is ordinarily a matter for the convener of the committee, but I am content for Ms Regan to continue. Ash Regan: When, during the week of stage 3 of the bill, the Court of Session issued a ruling that contradicted the Scottish Government’s position, even that was ignored. No emergency session was called and no formal briefing was given to MSPs on how the ruling might affect how they voted. Manuscript amendments that were submitted by the Conservatives seeking to address the ruling were blocked. In my opinion, that was not scrutiny but strategic avoidance of certain issues. Worse still, the conduct of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee since has only deepened public unease.”
“The next item of business is a statement by Shirley-Anne Somerville on response to the housing emergency. The cabinet secretary will take questions at the end of her statement, so there should be no interventions or interruptions. 14:26”
“Good afternoon. The first item of business this afternoon is portfolio question time and the portfolio is net zero, energy and transport. Clyde and Hebrides Ferry Services 1.”
“Before I call the First Minister, I remind members that, in relation to this question and to question 6, there are a number of active cases in Scotland relating to knife crime and those are sub judice. For that reason, and because of the age of many of those involved, I would be grateful if members would not refer to details of any criminal proceedings in relation to those incidents.”
“Good morning. The first item of business is general question time. EHRC Interim Update (Supreme Court Ruling on Equality Act 2010) 1.”
“Amendment disagreed to. The Presiding Officer: The next question is, that amendment S6M-17598.1, in the name of Rhoda Grant, which seeks to amend motion S6M- 17598, in the name of Mairi Gougeon, on empowering Scotland’s island communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. The vote is closed.”
“We move to the vote on amendment S6M- 17598.2, in the name of Jamie Halcro Johnston, which seeks to amend motion S6M-17598, in the name of Mairi Gougeon. Members should cast their votes now. For Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay] Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn] McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on amendment S6M-17598.2, in the name of Jamie Halcro Johnston, is: For 31, Against 78, Abstentions 0.”
“There are four questions to be put as a result of today’s business. I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Jamie Halcro Johnston is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Rhoda Grant will fall. The first question is, that amendment S6M- 17598.2, in the name of Jamie Halcro Johnston, which seeks to amend motion S6M-17598, in the name of Mairi Gougeon, on empowering Scotland’s island communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system. 17:01 Meeting suspended. 17:04 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Jamie Halcro Johnston is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Rhoda Grant will fall.”
“That the Parliament agrees that the Criminal Justice Committee be designated as the lead committee in consideration of the Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill at stage 1.—[Jamie Hepburn] The Presiding Officer: The question on the motions will be put at decision time. Decision Time 17:00”
“The next item of business is consideration of three Parliamentary Bureau motions. I ask Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move motions S6M-17610, on committee membership, S6M-17611, on a committee substitute, and S6M-17612, on designation of a lead committee. Motions moved, That the Parliament agrees that Patrick Harvie be appointed to replace Gillian Mackay as a member of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee. That the Parliament agrees that Mark Ruskell be appointed to replace Gillian Mackay as the Scottish Green Party substitute on the Education, Children and Young People Committee.”
“The next item of business is consideration of business motion S6M-17607, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a business programme. I call Martin Whitfield to move the motion.”