Alison Johnstone
No Party Affiliation · Scotland
“We will use the same voting procedure as before. Members voted by secret ballot. The Presiding Officer: Voting in this round of the Presiding Officer election is closed. I invite the scrutineers to proceed to the back of the chamber for the counting of votes. Again, candidates may also observe the count.”
“I now invite any scrutineers appointed by the candidates to go to the back of the chamber to observe the counting of ballot papers. Candidates may also observe the count.”
“The first meeting of the seventh session of the Parliament is resumed. I have received four valid nominations for the position of Presiding Officer. I shall now announce the nominations and ask all candidates, as their names are announced, to make themselves known to the chamber.”
“Ballot papers should be marked with an X before being folded and then placed in one of the ballot boxes provided at the rear of the chamber. At the end of each voting period, I shall invite any scrutineers that have been nominated by each candidate to monitor the counting of votes at the back of the chamber, which is where clerks will emp…”
“Members should remain in their seats until I invite them to collect their ballot paper from clerks at the back of the chamber. Members with surnames beginning with the letters A to F should collect their ballot papers from the desk on my left at the back of the chamber—the clerks there have their hands up.”
“15:29 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: This voting period is now open, using the same voting procedure as before. Members voted by secret ballot. The Presiding Officer: Voting in the third round of the election of the Presiding Officer is closed.”
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“Good afternoon. The first item of business is time for reflection, and our time for reflection leader is Martha Inés Romero, secretary general of Pax Christi International. Martha Inés Romero (Pax Christi International): Presiding Officer and members of the Scottish Parliament, thank you for the opportunity to lead time for reflection today. Good afternoon, everyone. I am Martha Inés Romero, a Colombian peace practitioner serving the Pax Christi International movement as secretary general. Pax Christi is a global peace movement that has been working worldwide since 1945. Today, 80 years later, we continue promoting peace by active non-violence and education and by promoting human rights, restorative justice, ecological sustainability and reconciliation.”
“Amendment disagreed to. The Presiding Officer: The next question is, that amendment S6M-16595.1, in the name of Daniel Johnson, which seeks to amend motion S6M-16595, in the name of Kate Forbes, on increasing investment in Scotland, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. The vote is closed.”
“For Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay] Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn] McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn] McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on amendment S6M-16595.2, in the name of Murdo Fraser, is: For 44, Against 68, Abstentions 0.”
“Motion agreed to, That the Parliament agrees that the Local Government Finance (Scotland) Order 2025 [draft] be approved. The Presiding Officer: The next question is, that amendment S6M-16595.2, in the name of Murdo Fraser, which seeks to amend motion S6M- 16595, in the name of Kate Forbes, on increasing investment in Scotland, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay] Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn] McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn] McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Abstentions Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on motion S6M-16489, in the name of Ivan McKee, on the Local Government Finance (Scotland) Order 2025, is: For 84, Against 1, Abstentions 24.”
“There are four questions to be put as a result of today’s business. The first question is, that motion S6M-16489, in the name of Ivan McKee, on the Local Government Finance (Scotland) Order 2025, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system. 17:00 Meeting suspended. 17:03 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: We move to the vote on motion S6M-16489, on the Local Government Finance (Scotland) Order 2025, in the name of Ivan McKee. Members should cast their votes now.”
“When we look at what is happening in other nations, we can see that we have an early-mover advantage. So that we use that, we need to support the supply chain in order to secure Scotland-located jobs. Paul Sweeney talked about the need to ensure that that is the case: nothing is more critically important than having the supply chain located in Scotland. If we look at where people are interested in investing right now, we can see that the jobs are very difficult to move away from the country in which they are situated. We are on the cusp of a huge opportunity. We need to amplify our message to the world that we are open for business, that we welcome external investment and that Scotland will compete to win the market. Decision Time 17:00”
“If things go as we want them to go, we will have a huge surplus of energy, so how we deploy that in attracting investment will be critical. I cannot remember how much time you gave me, Presiding Officer, but I think that I am nearing the end of it. The Presiding Officer: You have until 5 pm. Kate Forbes: I had many things to say in response to other members, but they will forgive me if I do not go through everything that was said. I want to make the points that our history has demonstrated that key economic interventions can change the future of a nation, and that backing key industries and introducing new opportunities can totally transform communities. Right now, I argue that the opportunity that we face as a country outstrips anything that has gone before. We have more than 40GW of offshore wind energy in the pipeline.”
“Paul Sweeney: The point that the Deputy First Minister makes about demand signals is key, and it does not relate only to renewables: shipbuilding is a classic example of an area where such investment must be made. In that regard, Mr Rennie talked about the steel industry in Scotland and the fact that key assets are currently hanging by a thread. A huge opportunity lies in green steel and electric arc furnaces. Could the Government take a more proactive approach to developing those assets? Kate Forbes: Yes, is the bottom line. We want to take advantage of all the opportunities that come from supporting manufacturing and the supply chain, especially in terms of renewables or shipbuilding, which Mr Sweeney mentioned.”
“However, when developers are deciding where to invest, they are looking for the supply chain to be already established and ready to deliver. It is a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation. [Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: Deputy First Minister, if I may interrupt—I am aware of colleagues who are coming into the chamber just now. I would be grateful if, as a matter of courtesy, conversations could be curtailed. Kate Forbes: I may have somewhat trivialised the issue in saying that, but I have outlined why we need to de-risk investments up front. Some people will ask why we put public investment into private enterprise: the reason why is that investments need to be made now, so that the supply chain exists when developments get consent and building starts.”
“We have committed to trying to provide maximum certainty on the things that we can control. On the consenting point, as we have outlined, our target is to get applications through in 50 weeks. Members will appreciate just how complex the applications are. They are huge projects, but we will try to provide certainty. I have been jumping around my notes, which I have now ditched. The other fundamental point that we face, even when we get developments through, is the big question that Lorna Slater posed, which was about how we ensure that our great wind and renewables potential is creating jobs in Scotland. The supply chain needs to know that it will have customers: people in the supply chain are waiting for investment by the developers before they make their investment choices.”
“The figure that he quoted is distorted by about 40 planning applications, and the average is much lower. Daniel Johnson: I welcome what the Deputy First Minister is saying. The cross-Government point is very important. The other point that keeps coming up in the Economy and Fair Work Committee concerns international comparisons. If it takes three to five years for a wind project to go through in Norway, we cannot afford for them to take 10 to 15 years in this country. Does she accept the point that we need to be mindful of international comparators? Kate Forbes: We accept that. Developers tell me that they are juggling a number of key milestones. One is planning, one is the contracts for difference scheme, one is grid connections and there are others, including investment decisions.”
“One is about regulation: I recognise the need to work on a pan-Government basis on that and not just within the economy team, so that is what we are doing. We have established a Cabinet sub- group, bringing together all the cabinet secretaries to look at what is happening in each part of Government that affects the economy, which helps us to have open conversations. Secondly, Daniel Johnson asked a question about consenting. Over the past few weeks, we have massively increased the number of workers in the consenting unit. Gillian Martin will keep me right, but I want to say that we have doubled the number of workers in order to reduce the amount of time that it takes to give consent. Murdo Fraser talked about planning. I want to distinguish between planning and consenting, which is an important distinction to make.”
“I take on board Lorna Slater’s point about the need for that strategy to be as granular as possible, so we are actively engaged in that work. Ultimately, for the potential that we know exists and the strategy to get there, we need to create the building blocks and ensure that we take people with us. My invitation to everybody is to get involved with that work. I want to touch on some other things that members mentioned. Murdo Fraser talked about the need for a supportive environment and said that investment will come when there is a positive environment. That is true. We did not hear huge amounts of positivity from him, but I agree with that line. There are three points to make in that regard.”
“I know that things need to be political, but what Willie Rennie said is the bottom line: investors look for signals, and I think that the signal that the Parliament should send, irrespective of the minor disagreements that we might have, is that Scotland is open for business, that the potential of our economy and our people is huge, that we are operating in a global environment and that we intend to compete to win investment. Alexander Stewart said—I absolutely agree— that Scotland has the potential to lead the UK. In many respects, we already do. However, our potential and our ambition to realise that spur me on. I am treating this challenge and opportunity by taking the practical approach of recognising that we must have a strategy to get there.”
“According to EY’s annual independent analysis of inward investment, last year Scotland experienced an increase of 12.7 per cent in the number of FDI projects and had double the rate of growth of the UK, when compared with 2022. Our share of UK FDI projects increased for the fifth year in a row, to 14.4 per cent. Investor perception of Scotland also improved, with 26 per cent of the potential investors that were surveyed saying that they were planning to invest in Scotland—up from 19.2 per cent.”
“Presiding Officer, since today’s debate is about increasing investment, please allow me to say this: I have to mention that the very first annual India and Scotland event organised by the Indian consulate will be held in Edinburgh next week. I am very proud to announce that. Kenneth Gibson talked about touching on successes, and the cabinet secretary will be speaking at the event next week. I really hope that the cabinet secretary and the Scottish Government will forge and gel those relationships so that they can grow and so that we can bring success to Scotland. The Presiding Officer: I call the Deputy First Minister to wind up and take us to 5 pm, please. 16:51 Kate Forbes: It is a great source of comfort to me that the years of the Tories’ doom and gloom do not seem to have stopped investors.”
“Pam Gosal: I want to end by talking about something important that is happening next week that I think that all members will celebrate. Last year, as the founder and convener of the cross- party group on India, I led a delegation of MSPs to India. As a result, next week a memorandum of understanding between Scottish Financial Enterprise and the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry will be signed. The purpose of the MOU is to facilitate meaningful partnership between fintech organisations of India and Scotland to collaborate on mutual interests, which I hope will bring more investment into Scotland.”
“From the Labour seats, Daniel Johnson talks about the need to focus on investments into Scotland and maintaining prosperity for Scots. That is rich coming from those benches, especially since it was Labour that raised national insurance—I am not sure that Scots or businesses think that that is prosperous. The future may very well be green, but Lorna Slater forgets that her failed deposit return scheme caused panic among job-creating and tax-generating companies in Scotland. Therefore, the Conservatives will certainly not be taking any lectures from the Greens. I agree with Willie Rennie— Members: Oh! Pam Gosal: I agree with him on two points: caution on regulations and taxes, and long-term consistency and certainty. [Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: Let us hear Ms Gosal.”
“Let us hear Ms Gosal. Pam Gosal: Confidence among the UK’s small businesses has fallen to its lowest level since the height of the pandemic. In fact, let us not forget that the small business index hit its lowest point since the pandemic in the October to December quarter, dropping by 40 points, but what occurred during that time? Yes—the UK Labour Government budget occurred. That shameful increase in employer national insurance contributions has put businesses in a difficult position, with many having to cut jobs. There were great contributions from all members. I cannot, unfortunately, mention them all, because I want to touch on something that Kenneth Gibson said about India, but I will briefly talk about some members’ speeches.”
“People in Scotland should look at what the SNP has delivered to improve the opportunities and the life chances of the children and young people of Scotland, and they should then look at what a Labour Government does: it went into office promising to reduce fuel bills for individuals in our country, which then went up. Labour delivers broken promises to the people of Scotland, and Mr Sarwar will be no different. Cabinet (Meetings) 3.”
“This Government has put money in place to support improvement in the lives of young people living in poverty through the Scottish child payment—originally, it was set at £5 for every eligible child; now, it is £26.70—which is helping to lift hundreds of thousands of children out of poverty. [John Swinney has corrected this contribution. See end of report.] That is why Scotland is the only part of the United Kingdom where it is projected that poverty among children will fall, whereas it will rise in every other part of the United Kingdom under the stewardship in England and Wales of the Labour Party.”
“The First Minister: Mr Sarwar might have conjured up that script before he asked me any questions, but I have refuted the detail that he has put on the record, because, as I recounted to him a second ago, we are making progress on closing the attainment gap. Under this Government, the attainment gap has reduced by 60 per cent since 2009-10, and I am absolutely determined to improve outcomes for young people. Why are we doing that? We are doing that because this Government put in investment, through the expansion of early learning and childcare, to give children the best start in life.”
“Our classrooms should be places for learning, growing and flourishing. The promise that I make is that, as First Minister, I will make sure that every young Scot can reach their potential. We will agree new Scottish industry standards so that young people can see the future opportunities that their school subjects and qualifications will give them. That is the new direction that we offer. After nearly two decades, the SNP has nobody else to blame for the damage that has been done to Scotland’s education system. Is it not clear that the SNP’s defining mission is now its defining failure?”
“Anas Sarwar: The Government includes a zero-hours contract or voluntary work as a “positive destination” for young Scots. I quoted the figure of 42.6 per cent of pupils leaving school last year without a single higher or equivalent qualification, and it is interesting that the First Minister did not respond to that statistic. Almost 45 per cent of young people are leaving our schools without a single higher. Teachers have been warning about that for years. This morning, education expert Professor Lindsay Paterson said: “the Scottish Government has never had a coherent strategy for dealing with the educational effects of poverty.” John Swinney’s report card is woeful. Attainment is down across the board, more pupils are leaving school with no qualifications and there are fewer additional support need teachers.”
“Members. The First Minister: The overall poverty-related attainment gap has reduced by 60 per cent since 2009-10 in the face of unremitting austerity from the United Kingdom Government. Progress is being made, and there has been improvement in the outcomes for young people over that period. Mr Sarwar talked about the outcomes for young people leaving school. The percentage of young people in a positive destination three months after leaving school is 95.7 per cent, which is the second-highest level since records began. I accept that there is work to be done, but Mr Sarwar has to accept the evidence that I am putting on the record. As a consequence of the investment that this Government has made, we are making progress in improving outcomes for young people and in closing the attainment gap. The Parliament should support that endeavour.”
“On Monday, I was honoured to represent the Parliament, along with party leaders, at a service at the national war memorial at Edinburgh castle to mark the third anniversary of the war in Ukraine and to show our solidarity with all those who are suffering as a result of the on-going war. Before we move to First Minister’s question time, I invite party leaders to make some remarks. 12:01”
“Good morning. The first item of business is general question time. Highlands and Islands General Practitioners (Administration) 1.”
“Members should cast their votes now. The vote is closed.”
“There are 10 questions to be put as a result of today’s business. I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Richard Lochhead is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Craig Hoy will fall. The first question is, that amendment S6M- 16571.3, in the name of Richard Lochhead, which seeks to amend motion S6M-16571, in the name of Lorna Slater, on Scottish Enterprise funding for arms companies, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access digital voting. 17:13 Meeting suspended. 17:16 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: We come to the vote on amendment S6M-16571.3, in the name of Richard Lochhead, which seeks to amend motion S6M- 16571, in the name of Lorna Slater, on Scottish Enterprise funding for arms companies.”
“The next item of business is consideration of two Parliamentary Bureau motions. I ask the minister, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move motions S6M-16588, on referral of a Scottish statutory instrument, and S6M-16589, on designation of a lead committee. Motions moved, That the Parliament agrees that the Local Government Finance (Scotland) Order 2025 [draft] be considered by the Parliament. That the Parliament agrees that the Rural Affairs and Islands Committee be designated as the lead committee in consideration of the Dog Theft (Scotland) Bill at stage 1.— [Jamie Hepburn] The Presiding Officer: The questions on the motions will be put at decision time. Decision Time 17:12”
“The next item of business is consideration of business motion S6M-16587, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a business programme. Motion moved, That the Parliament agrees— (a) the following programme of business— Tuesday 4 March 2025 2.00 pm Time for Reflection followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Topical Questions (if selected) followed by Scottish Government Debate: Scotland’s Renewable Future followed by Committee Announcements followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 5.00 pm Decision Time followed by Members’ Business Wednesday 5 March 2025 2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.00 pm Portfolio Questions: Deputy First Minister Responsibilities, Economy and Gaelic; Finance and Local Government followed by Scottish Government Debate: Achieving a Fair Balance in the UK’s Economy followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Approval of SSIs (if required) 5.00 pm Decision Time followed by Members’ Business Thursday 6 March 2025 11.40 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions 11.40 am General Questions 12.00 pm First Minister’s Questions followed by Members’ Business 2.30 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.30 pm Scottish Government Debate: COVID-19 Day of Reflection followed by Portfolio Questions: Net Zero and Energy, and Transport followed by Criminal Justice Committee, Health, Social Care and Sport Committee and Social Justice and Social Security Committee Debate: The People’s Panel Report on Reducing Drug Harm and Deaths in Scotland followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 5.15 pm Decision Time Tuesday 11 March 2025 2.00 pm Time for Reflection followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Topical Questions (if selected) followed by Scottish Government Business followed by Committee Announcements followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 5.00 pm Decision Time followed by Members’ Business Wednesday 12 March 2025 2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.00 pm Portfolio Questions: Rural Affairs, Land Reform and Islands; Health and Social Care followed by Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party Business followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Approval of SSIs (if required) 5.10 pm Decision Time followed by Members’ Business Thursday 13 March 2025 11.40 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions 11.40 am General Questions 12.00 pm First Minister’s Questions followed by Members’ Business 2.30 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.30 pm Portfolio Questions: Social Justice followed by Scottish Government Business followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 5.00 pm Decision Time (b) that, for the purposes of Portfolio Questions in the week beginning 3 March 2025, in rule 13.7.3, after the word “except” the words “to the extent to which the Presiding Officer considers that the questions are on the same or similar subject matter or” are inserted.—[Jamie Hepburn] Motion agreed to.”
“The next item of business is consideration of motion S6M-16561, on the appointment of a member of the Standards Commission for Scotland. I call Claire Baker to speak to and move the motion on behalf of the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body. 17:09”
“The Presiding Officer: Thank you, Ms White. As I pointed out, the code explains how complaints should be made. Eating Disorders Awareness Week 2025”
“Thank you, Ms White. My understanding of the points that you have just made suggests that they relate to conduct in a committee meeting, which would be a matter for the committee’s convener. [Interruption.] The code of conduct sets out which complaints should be considered by me in my role as Presiding Officer. The code also points out how complaints should be made, and this is not a matter on which I would rule from the chair. It is not a matter that should be ruled on from the chair. Tess White: On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I would like to raise—[Inaudible.] The Presiding Officer: Ms White, I am sorry, but your microphone is not switched on. Tess White: Thank you, Presiding Officer. This is such a serious matter that I would like to raise it with you after this meeting of Parliament today.”
“Motion agreed to, That the Parliament agrees that the Budget (Scotland) (No. 4) Bill be passed. The Presiding Officer: The motion is agreed to and the Budget (Scotland) (No 4) Bill is passed. [Applause.]”
“For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay] Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn] McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn] McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Alba) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Abstentions Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on motion S6M-16562, in the name of Shona Robison, on the Budget (Scotland) (No 4) Bill at stage 3, is: For 73, Against 29, Abstentions 21.”
“The first question is, that motion S6M-16562, in the name of Shona Robison, on the Budget (Scotland) (No 4) Bill at stage 3, be agreed to. As the question concerns a motion to pass the bill, it must be decided by division. There will be a brief suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system. 17:55 Meeting suspended. 17:57 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: We come to the vote on motion S6M-16562, in the name of Shona Robison, on the Budget (Scotland) (No 4) Bill at stage 3. Members should cast their votes now.”
“The next item of business is consideration of motion S6M-16578, in the name of Alasdair Allan, on the legislative consent motion on the Great British Energy Bill, which is United Kingdom legislation. Motion moved, That the Parliament agrees that all relevant provisions of the Great British Energy Bill, introduced in the House of Commons on 25 July 2024 and subsequently amended in relation to an independent review of GB Energy (clause 6A) on 20 February 2025, so far as these matters fall within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament, should be considered by the UK Parliament.—[Gillian Martin] The Presiding Officer: The question on the motion will be put at decision time. Decision Time 17:55 The Presiding Officer: There are two questions to be put as a result of today’s business.”
“The 2025-26 budget supports our vital public services, delivers on our key priorities, supports those who need it the most, maintains our social contract with the people of Scotland and delivers a range of benefits that are not available elsewhere. In bringing forward a budget by Scotland for Scotland, we have worked in a positive and constructive manner across the chamber to deliver solutions for Scotland. Through seeking compromise, we are delivering a budget that will strengthen services and support our communities. The budget delivers on our collective vision for all of Scotland, so I urge all members in the chamber to support the 2025-26 Scottish budget. Great British Energy Bill 17:55”
“We set out our vision and expectations and invited public leaders to come together to inform that strategy. That work will continue, as we drive best practice across the system. On the specific subject of the invest-to-save fund, of course we do not know the answer to Craig Hoy’s question yet. The whole point is that we have introduced that fund to stimulate bids from public bodies, local government and other organisations working together. When we have received those bids and picked the most effective ones, I will be absolutely delighted to come back to the chamber to inform members how much we will generate from that £30 million.”
“He is hugely interested in that and has spent £100,000 on trying to find out the answers to such critical questions. That was monster of a question from Mr Lumsden about jars of honey. I will move on to public service reform. I must let Christine Grahame know that I am, indeed, not Elon Musk—that is something that I can confirm. [Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: Let us hear the minister. Ivan McKee: The public service reform summit that I led just last week brought together 150 representatives of public bodies, local government, the third sector and the wider economy to take forward more work on that critical agenda. We focused on prevention, delivering more efficiencies and connecting and integrating our public services across the country.”
“Craig Hoy: The minister is proposing to spend £30 million of taxpayers’ money on an invest-to- save scheme. How much money will that save? The Scottish Fiscal Commission says that the welfare bill is set to double to £9 billion by the end of the year, which will constrain public expenditure elsewhere. Where will the minister’s Government make that £4.5 billion of savings? What will it cut? Ivan McKee: I will talk about the invest-to-save fund in a minute, because it is important. The contribution of the day was from Douglas Lumsden. Maybe I am wrong, but I do not think that I have ever heard Douglas Lumsden take an intervention. All that I was going to ask him during his speech was how many jars of honey are sold in the Parliament canteen.”
“He talked about the money that we invest in our overseas offices without recognising the fact that the inward investment that they bring in helps to support Scotland’s economy, which has the best-performing inward investment record in the whole UK, outside London. Craig Hoy: Will Ivan McKee take an intervention on that very point? Ivan McKee: I will do so in a minute. Craig Hoy talked about saving £100 million without recognising that the data that we have published indicates that we have already saved £280 million over two years, so we are already performing better than the amount that the Conservatives are talking about. Craig Hoy also called for a £600 million tax cut, while his back benchers—Brian Whittle, Sandesh Gulhane, Tim Eagle and Douglas Lumsden— called for more spending.”
“That contrasts with Scottish Labour’s negative approach, which we see—if we look at its poll numbers—the electorate has noted. With Scottish Labour, it is not about willing the means or the ends—although its approach will mean the end of its electoral prospects. In fact, we will need money to invest in a fence that is big enough for all the Labour members to sit on. I will turn to the Conservatives’ comments. To be frank, I say that Craig Hoy was concerningly disconnected. He talked about cutting costs, but then talked about investing and spending money to set up a new agency that would add to those costs.”
“Thank you, members. Ivan McKee: We are investing a record amount of money to deliver improvements in the health service, and members can already see from trends that things are moving in a better direction in that regard. I will address some comments that members made. Ross Greer was absolutely correct that we are here to get results for the people who sent us here, and not just to engage in performative politics. Alex Cole-Hamilton managed to fill almost his entire six minutes with listing all the things that the Liberal Democrats got from taking part in their budget negotiation. Likewise, Ash Regan talked about what Alba received from its engagement in the process. It is telling that those Opposition parties willed the means to will the ends.”
“The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-16562, in the name of Shona Robison, on the Budget (Scotland) (No 4) Bill at stage 3. I invite members who wish to speak in the debate to press their request-to-speak buttons, and I call the cabinet secretary to speak to and move the motion. 15:24”
“Section 4—Overall cash authorisations The Presiding Officer: We move to the group entitled “The Scottish Administration: allocation of resources”. Amendment 1, in the name of the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government, is grouped with amendments 2 and 3.”
“The next item of business is stage 3 proceedings on the Budget (Scotland) (No 4) Bill. In dealing with the amendments, members should have the bill as amended at stage 2—Scottish Parliament bill 56A—the marshalled list and the groupings of amendments. The division bell will sound and proceedings will be suspended for around five minutes for the first division of the stage 3 proceedings. The period of voting for the first division will be 45 seconds. Thereafter, I will allow a voting period of one minute for the first division after a debate. Members who wish to speak in the debate on any group of amendments should press their request-to-speak button or enter RTS in the chat as soon as possible after I call the group. Members should now refer to the marshalled list of amendments.”
“The next item of business is a statement by Maree Todd on the Scottish Government’s response to concerns raised regarding care of children at Skye house. The minister will take questions at the end of her statement, so there should be no interventions or interruptions. 14:44”