Alison Johnstone
No Party Affiliation · Scotland
“We will use the same voting procedure as before. Members voted by secret ballot. The Presiding Officer: Voting in this round of the Presiding Officer election is closed. I invite the scrutineers to proceed to the back of the chamber for the counting of votes. Again, candidates may also observe the count.”
“I now invite any scrutineers appointed by the candidates to go to the back of the chamber to observe the counting of ballot papers. Candidates may also observe the count.”
“The first meeting of the seventh session of the Parliament is resumed. I have received four valid nominations for the position of Presiding Officer. I shall now announce the nominations and ask all candidates, as their names are announced, to make themselves known to the chamber.”
“Ballot papers should be marked with an X before being folded and then placed in one of the ballot boxes provided at the rear of the chamber. At the end of each voting period, I shall invite any scrutineers that have been nominated by each candidate to monitor the counting of votes at the back of the chamber, which is where clerks will emp…”
“Members should remain in their seats until I invite them to collect their ballot paper from clerks at the back of the chamber. Members with surnames beginning with the letters A to F should collect their ballot papers from the desk on my left at the back of the chamber—the clerks there have their hands up.”
“15:29 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: This voting period is now open, using the same voting procedure as before. Members voted by secret ballot. The Presiding Officer: Voting in the third round of the election of the Presiding Officer is closed.”
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“That the Parliament agrees that the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (Exclusions and Exceptions) (Scotland) Amendment Order 2025 [draft] be approved. That the Parliament agrees that— Katy Clark be appointed to replace Daniel Johnson as a member of the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee; and Mark Griffin be appointed to replace Katy Clark as a member of the Social Justice and Social Security Committee. That the Parliament agrees that Carol Mochan be appointed to replace Mark Griffin as the Scottish Labour Party substitute on the Social Justice and Social Security Committee. The Presiding Officer: That concludes decision time. Women Against State Pension Inequality (Compensation)”
“Motion agreed to, That the Parliament agrees that the Land and Buildings Transaction Tax (additional amount: transactions relating to second homes etc.) (Scotland) Amendment Order 2024 (SSI 2024/367) be approved. The Presiding Officer: If no member objects, I propose to ask a single question on four Parliamentary Bureau motions. The final question is that motions S6M-16115 and S6M-16116, on approval of SSIs; S6M-16117, on committee membership; and S6M-16118, on a committee substitute, all in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, be agreed to. Motions agreed to, That the Parliament agrees that the Electronic Monitoring (Use of Devices and Information) (Scotland) Regulations 2025 [draft] be approved.”
“For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Gillian Mackay] Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay] Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn] McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn] McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Alba) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on motion S6M-16114, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on approval of an SSI, is: For 88, Against 29, Abstentions 0.”
“Motion agreed to, That the Parliament agrees that the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill be passed. The Presiding Officer: The Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill is passed. [Applause.] The next question is, that motion S6M-16114, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on approval of a Scottish statutory instrument, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (Con) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Gillian Mackay] Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay] Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn] McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn] McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Abstentions Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Alba) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on motion S6M-16093, in the name of Angela Constance, on the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill is: For 116, Against 0, Abstentions 1.”
“There are three questions to be put as a result of today’s business. The first question is, that motion S6M-16093, in the name of Angela Constance, on the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill at stage 3, be agreed to. As this is a motion to pass the bill, the question must be decided by division, so there will be a very short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system. 17:48 Meeting suspended. 17:49 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: We move to the vote on motion S6M-16093, in the name of Angela Constance, on the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill. Members should cast their votes now.”
“The next item of business is consideration of Parliamentary Bureau motion S6M-16114, on approval of a Scottish statutory instrument. I ask Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move the motion. Motion moved, That the Parliament agrees that the Land and Buildings Transaction Tax (additional amount: transactions relating to second homes etc.) (Scotland) Amendment Order 2024 (SSI 2024/367) be approved.—[Jamie Hepburn] 17:39”
“The next item of business is consideration of business motion S6M-16113, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a business programme. Motion moved, That the Parliament agrees— (a) the following programme of business— Tuesday 21 January 2025 2.00 pm Time for Reflection followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Topical Questions (if selected) followed by Scottish Government Debate: Compensation for WASPI Women followed by Committee Announcements followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 5.00 pm Decision Time followed by Members’ Business Wednesday 22 January 2025 2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.00 pm Portfolio Questions: Rural Affairs, Land Reform and Islands; Health and Social Care followed by Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party Business followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Approval of SSIs (if required) 5.10 pm Decision Time followed by Members’ Business Thursday 23 January 2025 11.40 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions 11.40 am General Questions 12.00 pm First Minister’s Questions followed by Members’ Business 2.30 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.30 pm Portfolio Questions: Social Justice followed by Stage 3 Proceedings: Welfare of Dogs (Scotland) Bill followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 5.00 pm Decision Time Tuesday 28 January 2025 2.00 pm Time for Reflection followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Topical Questions (if selected) followed by Scottish Government Business followed by Committee Announcements followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 5.00 pm Decision Time followed by Members’ Business Wednesday 29 January 2025 2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.00 pm Portfolio Questions: Constitution, External Affairs and Culture, and Parliamentary Business; Justice and Home Affairs followed by Scottish Labour Party Business followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Approval of SSIs (if required) 5.10 pm Decision Time followed by Members’ Business Thursday 30 January 2025 11.40 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions 11.40 am General Questions 12.00 pm First Minister’s Questions followed by Members’ Business 2.30 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.30 pm Portfolio Questions: Education and Skills followed by Finance and Public Administration Committee Debate: Scottish Budget 2025-26 followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 5.00 pm Decision Time (b) that, for the purposes of Portfolio Questions in the week beginning 20 January 2025, in rule 13.7.3, after the word “except” the words “to the extent to which the Presiding Officer considers that the questions are on the same or similar subject matter or” are inserted.—[Jamie Hepburn] Motion agreed to.”
“We move to the debate on motion S6M-16093, in the name of Angela Constance, on the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill. I would be grateful if members who wish speak in the debate were to press their request-to-speak buttons now. I call the cabinet secretary to speak to and move the motion. You have up to seven minutes, cabinet secretary. 16:40”
“The Presiding Officer: That concludes decision time. NOVA Scotland”
“Motion agreed to, That the Parliament celebrates arts and culture in Scotland in all their diverse forms, past, present and emerging; recognises the transformational impact that they can have on people’s lives across Scotland; welcomes the economic contribution that the cultural and creative industries workforces make to society and the economy; acknowledges the importance of the community culture sector, and commends the innovative local organisations, in both rural and urban areas, for the work that they do to support participation in cultural pursuits; considers that a strong and successful culture sector is central to the prosperity of the nation; welcomes that, against a backdrop of cultural funding being cut by the UK Government, the draft Scottish Government Budget for 2025-26 increases frontline culture funding by £34 million, and believes that Scotland’s cultural communities can be supported to continue to develop and innovate in exhibition, performance and participation in Scotland’s artistic life.”
“For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Gillian Mackay] Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay] Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn] McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn] McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Alba) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Abstentions Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (Con) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on motion S6M-16092, in the name of Angus Robertson, on valuing culture: Scotland’s support to the culture sector, is: For 69, Against 23, Abstentions 26.”
“Amendment disagreed to. The Presiding Officer: The final question is, that motion S6M-16092, in the name of Angus Robertson, on valuing culture: Scotland’s support to the culture sector, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“For Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Gillian Mackay] Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay] Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn] McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn] McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Alba) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Abstentions Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on amendment S6M-16092.2, in the name of Neil Bibby, is: For 24, Against 64, Abstentions 28.”
“Amendment disagreed to. The Presiding Officer: The next question is, that amendment S6M-16092.2, in the name of Neil Bibby, which seeks to amend motion S6M-16092, in the name of Angus Robertson, on valuing culture: Scotland’s support to the culture sector, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“For Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Alba) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Lab) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Gillian Mackay] Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Rona Mackay] Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn] McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Jamie Hepburn] McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on amendment S6M-16092.3, in the name of Murdo Fraser, is: For 29, Against 88, Abstentions 0.”
“There are three questions to be put as a result of today’s business. I remind members that if the amendment in the name of Murdo Fraser is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Neil Bibby will fall. The first question is, that amendment S6M- 16092.3, in the name of Murdo Fraser, which seeks to amend motion S6M-16092, in the name of Angus Robertson, on valuing culture: Scotland’s support to the culture sector, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system. 17:01 Meeting suspended. 17:04 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: We come to the vote on amendment S6M-16092.3, in the name of Murdo Fraser. Members should cast their votes now.”
“That the Parliament agrees to the following revisions to the programme of business for— (a) Wednesday 15 January 2025— delete 7.00 pm Decision Time and insert 5.45 pm Decision Time (b) Thursday 16 January 2025— delete 2.30 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.30 pm Portfolio Questions: Net Zero and Energy, and Transport and insert 2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.00 pm Portfolio Questions: Net Zero and Energy, and Transport followed by Ministerial Statement: Scottish Government’s Response to the UK Covid-19 Inquiry Module 1 Report— [Jamie Hepburn] Motion agreed to. Decision Time 17:00”
“The next item of business is consideration of business motion S6M-16112, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on changes to the business programme. Any member who wishes to speak to the motion should press their request-to-speak button now. Motion moved.”
“The next item of business is a statement by Shirley-Anne Somerville on the winter heating payment. The cabinet secretary will take questions at the end of her statement.”
“Paul offered a single unified answer: Jesus Christ is “the power of God and the wisdom of God.” Paul had previously depended on his own resources but he now wanted to share with them what he had discovered for himself, saying that Jesus “became wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption”. In the midst of the complex issues that you seek to address as a Parliament, I commend to you the wisdom from God that made Abraham Lincoln, King Solomon and the apostle Paul life-changing servants of the people in their own times. Praying the Lord’s blessing on all your deliberation. Leis gach dùrachd agus beannachd dhuibh uile nu’r seirbheis. Thank you. Tapadh leibh. Topical Question Time 14:03 Avian Influenza 1.”
“Recognising the huge task ahead of him, he made the following request to God: “And now, O Lord my God … your servant is in the midst of your people whom you have chosen, a great people, too many to be numbered or counted for multitude. Give your servant therefore an understanding mind to govern your people … for who is able to govern this your great people?” God gave King Solomon the wisdom that he requested: he was famous as the king who established righteousness and justice in the land. The apostle Paul, the servant of Jesus Christ in the New Testament, wrote to the church in Corinth in AD55. Corinth was a busy commercial city, divided in its allegiance to leadership, disoriented in its morality and diverse in its understanding of the source of wisdom.”
“Abraham Lincoln, the 16th President of the United States of America, when he left his hometown of Springfield, Illinois, to take up office, said, “I now leave, not knowing when, or whether ever, I may return, with a task before me greater than that which rested upon Washington. Without the assistance of the Divine Being who ever attended him, I cannot succeed. With that assistance I cannot fail.” Abraham Lincoln recognised his need for help from the living God, and he proved in his time to be a political genius and an effective leader. Solomon succeeded David as King over God’s covenant people in the Old Testament.”
“Good afternoon. The first item of business is time for reflection, and our time for reflection leader today is the Rev Malcolm Macleod, Moderator of the Free Church of Scotland. The Rev Malcolm Macleod (Moderator of the General Assembly of the Free Church of Scotland): Presiding Officer and members of the Scottish Parliament, it is an honour for me to lead the time for reflection for today. Having served in the pastoral ministry for more than 24 years, I have discovered that the key to effective service is to acknowledge our own insufficiency for the task and to reach beyond ourselves for the help that enables effective, life- changing service.”
“17:07 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Jeremy Balfour is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Rhoda Grant will fall. We come to the vote on amendment S6M- 16034.4, in the name of Jeremy Balfour. Members should cast their votes now. The vote is closed.”
“There are four questions to be put as a result of today’s business. I remind members that, if the amendment in the name of Jeremy Balfour is agreed to, the amendment in the name of Rhoda Grant will fall. The first question is, that amendment S6M- 16034.4, in the name of Jeremy Balfour, which seeks to amend motion S6M-16034, in the name of Kaukab Stewart, on building a migration system that supports Scotland’s economy, public services and communities, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system. 17:00 Meeting suspended. 17:04 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: Colleagues, there is a technical issue, so I am going to suspend the meeting briefly again. 17:04 Meeting suspended.”
“Furthermore, as Alex Cole-Hamilton highlighted, that should not be confined to Scotland, as there are challenges with the retention of population in parts of England and Wales. We absolutely agree with the Liberal Democrats’ proposal on the inclusion of devolved Governments and ministers in that process. I hope that what the Government has set out in the debate will command the widest support among members. We recognise that we will have to take a multifaceted approach. However, looking to have a tailored approach to immigration that we can work and collaborate with the UK Government to design will be of significant benefit to the Scottish economy, our public services and our society. I encourage members to back the Government’s motion. Decision Time 17:00”
“We want to support people back into work and into jobs that they can sustain. That is a key priority for the Government. I go back to my earlier point that, if we are to grow our workforce and our pool of labour, we will need to take a multifaceted approach. We are not looking at any one matter in isolation, but regulation of the movement of people in and out of the UK is a key component. We have issued proposals that I think are reasonable and proportionate and that can command support. We want to work constructively with the UK Government, because, as I said, there is differentiation based on sectors and we believe that we can look to have that on the basis of geography.”
“I also want to see local working that engages with businesses and organisations that are specific to each community. I have engaged directly with the UK Government on its “Get Britain Working” white paper. I want to work with it constructively on employability, given the overlap between devolved and reserved competencies in that area. Of course, we are seeking to implement other measures, such as interventions through health. The UK Government is seeking to implement policy interventions through the social security system, which we must consider very carefully. We must ensure that we are incentivising people back into work and supporting them at their own pace, rather than having a system that would stigmatise people. That is always a danger in the employability sphere.”
“I gently caution members against looking at the available statistics, given the caveats that the Office for National Statistics has placed on them and given the issues with the labour force survey. We already know that too many people are economically inactive. We are taking action through the no one left behind strategy that forms part of our devolved employability services. That is a devolved, local partnership-based approach that allows such partners to respond to the needs and assets in their areas. Further funding for that has been committed in the Scottish budget. We have also committed to providing specialist disability support across all 32 local authority areas. I want to see opportunities for consistency in our devolved employability system where that is in the interests of collaboration.”
“However, there is much more that we can do. The way in which we could enhance our progress to date would be to see changes made to the migration system. I stress that those changes would not be a silver bullet, but they could make an important contribution. I will give way to Tess White. Tess White: The minister says that it is an important part of the role of Government to use interventions, but what about the fact that a quarter of the working-age population in Scotland is inactive because of ill health? Tom Arthur: That is an important point, and it sits directly within my portfolio as the minister with responsibility for fair work. We are making a range of interventions.”
“We have sectoral differentiation, so why not geographical differentiation? What is the role of Government if it is not to intervene through regulation when we see the distortionary effects of the magnetic pull of London and the south-east? That is the situation that confronts us. London provides great opportunities for Scottish business and Scottish people, but it also presents a challenge. Tess White: Will the minister take an intervention? Tom Arthur: Certainly—in just a moment. We can help to address that challenge in a similar way to our approach to capital. We work to attract investors to Scotland. We work within the existing system to attract people to come here. Let us remember that we are seeing net migration to Scotland from the rest of the UK, including among taxpayers, according to the recent data that we have available.”
“London and the south-east do disproportionately well, but Scotland is regularly the strongest-performing part of the UK outside those areas. That is testament to the tremendous work of our overseas offices, such as Scottish Development International, and of Scottish businesses and our business representative organisations in attracting inward investment. The challenge for us is that the migration system in the UK is more restrictive; it is not as open as the opportunities for investment. That reflects the Government’s three-part approach. First, we want to provide as much support as we can within the existing UK migration system. Secondly, we aim to advocate for change in that system. Thirdly, we will argue for a tailored approach, because the principle of adopting a differentiated approach is conceded.”
“London has the highest proportion of migrants among UK areas, and around 40 per cent of its residents were born abroad. According to census data, in 2021-22, almost half of all foreign-born residents of the UK lived in London and the south-east. That is the reality. There is freedom of movement, and London will always have that magnetic pull. Here I will draw a comparison. Richard Leonard made the point that it is interesting that some of the most vociferous advocates of free movement of capital are also the most vociferous opponents of restricting migration. We know that, against a country such as the United Kingdom, in which there are significant opportunities for inward investment, Scotland competes well.”
“I take the view that it is fantastic to have a brilliant, world-class city such as London on these islands, four and a half hours away on the train and an hour or so away on a flight, but it does not come without its challenges. There are many reasons why people would wish to move to London, but I do not think that the cost of living is one of them. I think that we all recognise that implicitly. There is a challenge there. It may be helpful for the chamber if I share some statistics. We know that London attracts disproportionately more skilled workers than the rest of the UK. Analysis by the migration observatory found that, between 2016 and 2020, 44 per cent of skilled workers with certificates of sponsorship went to London.”
“I felt that his data misrepresented the point that he was trying to make. Mr Hoy presented London as the cheaper option, in terms of the cost of living, compared to Scotland. In Scotland, higher earners pay a little bit more tax, but they get so much more in return for that—baby boxes, free university tuition and so on. Does the minister recognise that point and agree with me? Tom Arthur: That is quite helpful, because I was going to turn to a question asked by Mr Carlaw and touched on by one or two other members: why does Scotland seem not to take a population share of overall migration to the UK? It is a fairly legitimate question, but the distorting factor is, of course, London.”
“The second point that I want to note is about tone. The point was raised by Maggie Chapman, Lorna Slater and Alex Cole-Hamilton, and it was implicit in the remarks of Mr Leonard. It was also very much at the centre of excellent contributions from Jackson Carlaw and, indeed, my colleague Bill Kidd. It is heartening that, although we see a coarsening of language and, quite frankly, some obscene and outrageous rhetoric in other quarters, we have avoided that in Parliament today. It is an opportunity to recommit to speaking positively and constructively about migrants and their contribution to Scotland. Lorna Slater: I want to follow up on Mr Hoy’s intervention. I noticed that, in his speech, he spoke about central-belt bias in Scotland without recognising at all the distorting power that London has on UK and English economic statistics.”
“He will note the comments of the finance secretary on presenting the budget to Parliament and, indeed, the First Minister’s comments about the Government’s position regarding tax policy for the remainder of this session of Parliament. I will not rehearse the arguments, but Mr Hoy is well aware of the significant additional revenues that are raised through taxation policy in Scotland, which are estimated at some £1.5 billion this year. As many members have noted, there is a view that the performance of our public services is of key importance in attracting and retaining population in Scotland. A significant tax cut in the region of £1.5 billion is not consistent with wanting investment in our public services. However, I do not want to rehearse those arguments, as they have been well aired.”
“As part of that, the migration system under which we operate has a key role to play, but I want to disabuse members of the notion that it is the exclusive focus of the Government’s action to address the matter of population. Craig Hoy: I thank the minister for giving way and for conceding the fundamental point that the migration system is not a silver bullet. What does the minister say to Scottish Financial Enterprise, which says that its evidence-based approach clearly shows that higher taxes have reduced migration into Scotland, particularly in the financial services sector? Tom Arthur: I say to Mr Hoy that I very much recognise the points that have been raised by SFE and others and that have been reported anecdotally in the media.”
“If we cannot parlay in a Parliament, goodness knows where we can do it, particularly when it is on a subject of such profound importance to our economy, our wellbeing and our society overall as that of the very people who live in Scotland and how we create pathways for people to come and live in Scotland. I will move on to some of the fundamental economic arguments that underpin the motion that the Government has brought before Parliament today. However, first, I want to say two things. As I said in my opening remarks, this is not seen as a silver bullet or as a single solution. We recognise that what is required to ensure that we are able to sustain and grow our population in Scotland is a multifaceted approach that involves retaining people in Scotland, attracting people from other parts of the UK and attracting people internationally.”
“16:47 Tom Arthur: I thank colleagues across the chamber for their contributions to what I thought was a broadly informative, productive and constructive debate. Before moving to the substance of the contributions, I will respond to a point that was raised by one or two members who questioned whether it was even legitimate for the Parliament to be discussing the issue of migration. Of course, there are a number of policies that members on the Government benches would like to see devolved to the Parliament that are currently sitting in schedule 5 to the Scotland Act 1998. However, there was once a time when every power exercised by the Scottish Parliament and by Scottish ministers was exercised at Westminster and Whitehall. In a democracy, it is perfectly legitimate to make the case and advocate for change.”
“Jeremy Balfour stated a stark fact, which is that Scotland receives 6 per cent of net migration to the UK, which is lower than its 8.4 per cent population share. The Scottish Government likes to downplay the significance of that, but it is extremely important. The reality is that, after 17 years of SNP mismanagement, Scotland is often not an attractive prospect for people who are looking to relocate. The SNP-controlled NHS is performing worse than the health service in England. If the SNP wants to support Scotland’s economy, public services and communities, it should show some more common sense and focus on using the powers that it has to make Scotland a more attractive place to move to. The Presiding Officer: I call Tom Arthur to wind up the debate.”
“As a north-east MSP, I represent areas of remote and rural Scotland, and I know the unique population challenges that communities in those areas face, and I have raised them with Scottish ministers. However, when it comes to solutions, we should look first at the causes of depopulation. Almost half of council wards in the Borders and in the Highlands have experienced population decline—as my colleagues highlighted. Richard Leonard will be pleased to know that human rights are very important to me. The Scottish Human Rights Commission published alarming findings that show that food and housing in the Highlands do not meet minimum core human rights obligations, whereas health only partially meets obligations.”
“Tess White: The SNP has spent years agitating for independence, but as Scotland is part of the UK, the Scottish Government’s budget is protected from population decline. That point was not made by me; it was made by the Institute for Fiscal Studies. It is no surprise that, instead of using existing levers to tackle the population challenges that Scotland faces, the SNP reverts to form and calls for more powers. That is the same SNP that took years to set up the Scottish social security system, following the passing of the Scotland Act 2016. It is the same SNP that still has not floated new ferries for our island communities, prompting a grovelling apology from the First Minister this week.”
“Yes. Tess White: Thank you. Christine Grahame: Is the member prepared to concede that Brexit has impacted on our workforce? Does she agree that people’s lack of ability to move around Europe has impacted particularly on the NHS and the care sector, and that Brexit has a lot to answer for? Tess White: Christine Grahame is harping back to Brexit, but that ship is gone. When you were making your speech, I started to think that you were making some interesting points, but you dashed it all when you talked about grabbing employment law. If the Scottish Government could control and manage the things that it had the levers to manage, maybe the Scottish population would trust the Scottish Government and the SNP to deliver. The Presiding Officer: Always speak through the chair, please.”
“[Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: Let us hear the First Minister. The First Minister: The Scottish Retail Consortium said: “our hope is that ministers and MSPs can work collegiately to pass the Budget”. In addition, Shelter Scotland has welcomed the Government’s investment in affordable housing, and local government has indicated that the budget represents a strong investment package. There we have it. The views of child poverty organisations, business, local government and the housing sector in Scotland demonstrate that this is a budget for unity in Scotland. It is not a surprise that the populist Conservatives are having nothing to do with it. National Health Service 2.”
“Save the Children has encouraged “all political parties in the Scottish Parliament to support the budget so children can benefit from the positive steps taken.” The Scottish Retail Consortium said: “Whilst the proposed Scottish Budget is far from perfect”—[Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: Let us hear the First Minister. The First Minister: I will start again so that the Conservatives can properly hear what the voice of business is telling us about the budget. The Scottish Retail Consortium said: “Whilst the proposed Scottish Budget is far from perfect and has flaws, there is much in it that retailers can get behind.” It added: “our hope is that ministers and”—[Interruption.] Rachael Hamilton is now laughing at the voice of business in our Parliament. That is where the Conservative Party has now descended to.”
“Is it all the times that he demanded to break up the United Kingdom? Is it the ferries that he wasted a fortune on? Is it the gender reforms that he backed? Is it the damage that he did to schools, or is it Nicola Sturgeon’s toxic legacy? John Swinney was the driving force behind every damaging SNP policy for the past 18 years. This budget is not “a turning point”. Is it not just more of the same divisive, populist nonsense from John Swinney and the SNP? The First Minister: I think that the budget has touched a bit of a raw nerve with the Conservatives. I will tell Mr Findlay a few things about the Government’s budget.”
“The Government’s door remains open for dialogue about the contents of the Government’s budget, because I want to have as much agreement as I can possibly construct in this Parliament to support the budget measures so that we can all work together, as we have a statutory duty to do, to eradicate child poverty in Scotland. The support of any member who is willing to help the Government in our efforts to eradicate child poverty will be welcomed by me. Russell Findlay: The first part of John Swinney’s answer sounded like bad news for Patrick Harvie, but the second part was a bit less clear, so we will have to wait and see. After almost two decades in power, John Swinney also said this week that he wants his budget to be “a turning point”, but what is it that he wants to turn away from?”
“Russell Findlay: At least that means that John Swinney will not have to strike any damaging deals with the Greens, as he has so often done in the past. Can he now rule out any new taxes or extremist policies that the Greens demand? The First Minister: I have made it clear, as the finance secretary did in the budget statement in December, that the Government’s tax proposals will not change from what is in the budget and that there will be no further tax changes from this Government in advance of the 2026 elections. I hope that that gives some tax certainty, if Mr Findlay is genuinely seeking that clarity. As for dialogue with other political parties, I go back to what I said in my previous answers.”