← LEADERSHIP TERMINAL

UK PARLIAMENT · FORMER

Alison Johnstone

No Party Affiliation · Scotland

IN THEIR OWN WORDS

We will use the same voting procedure as before. Members voted by secret ballot. The Presiding Officer: Voting in this round of the Presiding Officer election is closed. I invite the scrutineers to proceed to the back of the chamber for the counting of votes. Again, candidates may also observe the count.

MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2026-05-14 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

I now invite any scrutineers appointed by the candidates to go to the back of the chamber to observe the counting of ballot papers. Candidates may also observe the count.

MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2026-05-14 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

The first meeting of the seventh session of the Parliament is resumed. I have received four valid nominations for the position of Presiding Officer. I shall now announce the nominations and ask all candidates, as their names are announced, to make themselves known to the chamber.

MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2026-05-14 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

Ballot papers should be marked with an X before being folded and then placed in one of the ballot boxes provided at the rear of the chamber. At the end of each voting period, I shall invite any scrutineers that have been nominated by each candidate to monitor the counting of votes at the back of the chamber, which is where clerks will emp…

MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2026-05-14 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

Members should remain in their seats until I invite them to collect their ballot paper from clerks at the back of the chamber. Members with surnames beginning with the letters A to F should collect their ballot papers from the desk on my left at the back of the chamber—the clerks there have their hands up.

MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2026-05-14 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

15:29 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: This voting period is now open, using the same voting procedure as before. Members voted by secret ballot. The Presiding Officer: Voting in the third round of the election of the Presiding Officer is closed.

MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2026-05-14 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

The complete record

Every one of 1,933 lines we hold for Alison Johnstone, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 18 of 39.

  1. For Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) [Proxy vote cast by Michael Marra] Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Against Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Patrick Harvie] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Maggie Chapman] Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 45, Against 72, Abstentions 0.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-11-04 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  2. The result of the division is: For 26, Against 90, Abstentions 0. Amendment 95 disagreed to. Section 12—Resumption in respect of limited duration tenancies and repairing tenancies Amendment 96 moved—[Edward Mountain]. The Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 96 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-11-04 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  3. The next item of business is a Social Justice and Social Security Committee debate on motion S6M- 19487, in the name of Bob Doris, on financial considerations when leaving an abusive relationship. 14:29

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-11-04 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  4. I want everyone to be able to hear what everyone is saying. Emma Harper: Thank you, Presiding Officer. I will finish my final sentence. Does the minister agree that the lack of a fair multi-annual funding settlement from the UK Government represents the biggest impediment to our ability to increase our support for and investment in Scottish agriculture? Jim Fairlie: I absolutely agree with everything that Emma Harper has said.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-11-04 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  5. To give reverence to the world that we want to create—one of wisdom, justice, compassion and integrity—in every possible moment, may we find warmth and love in our own and one another’s bounteous and generous hearts. Choose presence and peace over power and position, and elect love over fear. Topical Question Time 14:05 Future Farming Investment Scheme (Grants) 1.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-11-04 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  6. May we be honest about what energy we bring to the table and what energy we are setting in motion. The first law of thermodynamics states that no energy gets created in the universe and none is destroyed—it just changes form. Everything that we can examine contains an energy of vibration. All those vibrations coexist at the same time. It is to that vibration that everything and every person is connected, whether we are aware of it or not. The droplets that glisten on the spider’s web in the garden remind me that our existence means that we inherently belong to the web of life and to our one human family. Yoko Ono said: “spring passes and one remembers one’s innocence summer passes and one remembers one’s exuberance autumn passes and one remembers one’s reverence winter passes and one remembers one’s perseverance”.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-11-04 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  7. It is a time to reflect on the year’s events, accomplishments and challenges; to consider what we have learned and how we have grown; and to release and let go of what no longer serves us, as the trees show us in the graceful shedding of their leaves. It is a time to embrace change, breathe and be still. It is a time to appreciate the harvest of our human spirit; the rich well of consciousness, emotion, reason, empathy, goodness, kindness, love, peace, purpose, inner strength, resilience and creativity that we have the capacity for; and the ability to have profound experiences of awe, connection and joy, which give motivation to live meaningful lives and work towards a better world. May we be particularly conscious of how we use all that energy, for it creates our reality. We are all worthy of peace.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-11-04 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  8. Good afternoon. The first item of business is time for reflection. Our time for reflection leader today is Mandy Evans Ewing, who is a humanist. Mandy Evans Ewing (Humanist): Hello, and warmest greetings to everyone here, in this chamber, and beyond. Thank you for the opportunity to share some reflections this afternoon. Recently, as summer transitioned into autumn, I celebrated being 60. Every year of my life, this season seems to take on a greater resonance. The palette and hues are broader and more vibrant. The leaves dance more joyously, the air smells more earthy and musky, and the light is more golden, more soft and more warm.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-11-04 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  9. The Presiding Officer: The final question is, that motion S6M-19456, in the name of Shona Robison, on a financial resolution for the Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system. 17:03 Meeting suspended. 17:06 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: We come to the vote on motion S6M-19456, in the name of Shona Robison, on a financial resolution for the Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill. Members should cast their votes now. The vote is closed.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-30 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  10. The Presiding Officer: The next question is, that motion S6M-19454, in the name of Gillian Martin, on a legislative consent motion for the Planning and Infrastructure Bill, which is United Kingdom legislation, be agreed to. Motion agreed to, That the Parliament agrees that the relevant provisions of the Planning and Infrastructure Bill, introduced in the House of Commons on 11 March 2025, and subsequently amended, relating to a new clause on wind generation stations that may affect seismic array systems, inserted after clause 28, so far as these matters fall within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament and alter the executive competence of the Scottish Ministers, should be considered by the UK Parliament.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-30 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  11. There are four questions to be put as a result of today’s business. The first question is, that motion S6M-19422, in the name of Gillian Martin, on the Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill at stage 1, be agreed to. Motion agreed to, That the Parliament agrees to the general principles of the Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill. The Presiding Officer: The next question is, that motion S6M-18730, in the name of Shona Robison, on a financial resolution for the Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill, be agreed to. Motion agreed to, That the Parliament, for the purposes of any Act of the Scottish Parliament resulting from the Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill, agrees to any expenditure of a kind referred to in Rule 9.12.3A of the Parliament’s Standing Orders arising in consequence of the Act.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-30 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  12. We will move on to the next item of business, but before we continue, I remind members in the strongest terms that all business is follow-on business. That can have an impact on any day, and that is the case today. The next item of business is consideration of motion S6M-19456, on a financial resolution for the Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill. Motion moved, That the Parliament, for the purposes of any Act of the Scottish Parliament resulting from the Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill, agrees to any expenditure of a kind referred to in Rule 9.12.3A of the Parliament’s Standing Orders arising in consequence of the Act.—[Neil Gray] 16:41

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-30 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  13. Thank you, Ms Hamilton. Ms Hamilton will be aware that the comments that she has just put on the record are not, in fact, a point of order. The next item of business is a members’ business debate in the name of Craig Hoy. There will be a short suspension to allow those leaving the chamber and the public gallery to do so. 12:49 Meeting suspended. 12:51 On resuming— Bank Closures

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-30 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  14. The First Minister: I point out to members of the public in the gallery and to members of the public who are watching at home that, in all that diatribe from Mr Sarwar, six months before an election, he did not offer a single solution to the issues that we face. In addition, when it comes to him putting his finger on the button to vote for a budget that would provide for police numbers, prison officers and prisons, Mr Sarwar does not vote for the Government’s provisions. What we have heard from him is just rhetoric and hypocrisy. I am proud to defend a record that includes our having one of the lowest levels of crime since 1974, and I will set that out to the people of Scotland. Wealth Taxes 3.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-30 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  15. I am a First Minister who stands here every week and takes responsibility—I do not dodge it for a moment. [Interruption.] We have listened to Mr Sarwar’s explanation. On this Government’s watch, the latest figures for 2023-24 show that recorded crime is at one of the lowest levels since 1974, and that it has gone down by 39 per cent since 2006-07. Police numbers are higher than when this Government came into office. Recorded crime is at one of the lowest levels since 1974. [Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: Just a moment, First Minister. I point out that those who are attending in the gallery today wish to hear all questions and contributions.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-30 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  16. Let us hear Mr Sarwar. Anas Sarwar: SNP members do not want to hear it, because that is their record. We face rising levels of violent crime, the legalisation, in effect, of shoplifting and the existence of 10,000 outstanding arrest warrants, but what does the SNP do in response? It bills the taxpayer £1 billion for a prison that was supposed to cost £100 million; it allows hundreds of drug dealers to walk free; it cuts police numbers; it closes police stations across Scotland; it lets criminals out early; and it pushes our prisons to breaking point. So when will John Swinney finally admit that his record—the SNP’s record—on justice is nothing short of criminal? The First Minister: Mr Sarwar said that everything that has happened to date is the responsibility of my Government. I accept that responsibility.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-30 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  17. Good morning. The first item of business is general question time. As it is the shortest question session that we have in the week, concise questions and responses would be appreciated. For question 1, I call Richard Leonard. Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Modernisation) 1.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-30 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  18. Published in Edinburgh by the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body, the Scottish Parliament, Edinburgh, EH99 1SP All documents are available on the Scottish Parliament website at: www.parliament.scot Information on non-endorsed print suppliers is available here: www.parliament.scot/documents For information on the Scottish Parliament contact Public Information on: Telephone: 0131 348 5000 Textphone: 0800 092 7100 Email: sp.info@parliament.scot

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  19. Thank you, members. I will provide an update on the situation. The Parliamentary Bureau has considered all options in order to decide whether we can continue with stage 3 proceedings this evening. In doing so, we were very mindful of the fact that we are considering legislation, and we have concluded that we should not resume this evening for both technical and procedural reasons. I am postponing the rest of today’s business. The bureau will continue to meet, and further information will be provided as soon as possible. Therefore, I postpone the rest of today’s business and I close this meeting. Meeting closed at 19:10. This is the final edition of the Official Report for this meeting. It is part of the Scottish Parliament Official Report archive and has been sent for legal deposit.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  20. Thank you, colleagues. I have a little update on the situation in which we find ourselves. I understand that there is a significant Microsoft outage affecting some products, and it is global. That is preventing us from voting. The Parliamentary Bureau has just had a brief meeting and has agreed that the best option for now is to suspend. For those who wish to attend, the Poppyscotland event will be going ahead between 6 pm and 7 pm. The bureau will meet before 7 pm to ascertain the situation at that point, with a view to resuming business in the chamber at 7 pm. There will be an update at 7 pm, but for now we are suspended. Thank you for your understanding. 17:19 Meeting suspended. 19:10 On resuming—

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  21. Section 4—Lotting of large land holding The Presiding Officer: Group 10 is on lotting decisions. Amendment 175, in the name of the cabinet secretary, is grouped with amendments 59, 60, 185, 290, 61, 291, 62, 186, 63, 64, 292, 392, 65, 293, 294, 187 to 190, 66, 191, 67 to 70, 192, 71, 72, 193, 73, 74, 295 to 297, 14, 298 to 303, 2, 77, 306 and 3.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  22. The next item of business is stage 3 proceedings on the Land Reform (Scotland) Bill. In dealing with the amendments, members should have the bill as amended at stage 2—that is, SP bill 44A—the marshalled list and the groupings of amendments. The division bell will sound and proceedings will be suspended for around five minutes for the first division at stage 3. The period of voting for the first division will be 30 seconds. Thereafter, I will allow a voting period of one minute for the first division after a debate. Members who wish to speak in the debate on any group of amendments should press their request-to-speak button or enter “RTS” in the chat function as soon as possible after I call the group. Members should now refer to the marshalled list of amendments.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  23. That is an example of how the UK Government and the Scottish Government worked together to ensure that the planning for the Afghan cohort, in the very same barracks, was successful, because we did it collaboratively. If we could do it once, we can do it again. However, that requires the willingness of the UK Government. Mr Mountain says that that was a different cohort. That is right, Presiding Officer, but they are also people who are seeking asylum, and we have an obligation to support them in a way that reassures local communities about the services that they require. The Presiding Officer: There is a great deal of interest in this item. I am keen to enable as many members as possible to take part, so succinct questions and responses will be appreciated.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  24. For example, on Monday, when the UK Government eventually informed Highland Council, the Scottish Government, despite being asked whether we could attend that meeting, was not able to attend it, because we had not been told about it. Again, there is a degree of frustration among ministers over how we can attempt to work together to be able to reassure people. I say to Edward Mountain that the Scottish Government is working as closely as possible with local service providers and Highland Council. My officials have met Highland Council regularly, and I have reached out to meet Highland Council leaders, too. Mr Mountain points out that there has been successful welcoming of cohorts in Inverness.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  25. Three hundred young men are moving to Inverness and we do not know what their requirements are or what the services are. Highlanders themselves are not even getting housing services. Shirley-Anne Somerville: Again, we will have to agree to disagree on whether there has been a negotiation. I have laid out the concerns that I have raised with the UK Government on behalf of the Scottish Government. I think that we can get to some agreement with Edward Mountain. Some of the points that he has raised are exactly the points that I have been raising and not getting answers to from the UK Government. That is why there was a concern.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  26. Let us hear one another. Edward Mountain: It was deeply concerning for constituents across the Highlands to find out about this only on Monday. According to what the cabinet secretary just said, the issue was raised back in September. It may have been raised before then—clearly, Alex Norris believes that it was raised well in advance, as that is the evidence that he gave to the House of Commons. Surely the point now is that it is up to the UK Government to start speaking to elected representatives, Highland Council and service providers to make sure that we have the appropriate services in the Highlands. I reiterate that highlanders have always opened our doors to allow people to come up. We welcomed Afghan people who had worked with the British Army to stay in Cameron barracks. This is a different ball game.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  27. The next item of business is a statement by Neil Gray on ensuring safe maternity services in Scotland. The cabinet secretary will take questions at the end of his statement, so there should be no interventions or interruptions. 14:45

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-29 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  28. That concludes our business for this evening. Meeting closed at 21:49. This is the final edition of the Official Report for this meeting. It is part of the Scottish Parliament Official Report archive and has been sent for legal deposit. Published in Edinburgh by the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body, the Scottish Parliament, Edinburgh, EH99 1SP All documents are available on the Scottish Parliament website at: www.parliament.scot Information on non-endorsed print suppliers is available here: www.parliament.scot/documents For information on the Scottish Parliament contact Public Information on: Telephone: 0131 348 5000 Textphone: 0800 092 7100 Email: sp.info@parliament.scot

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  29. If there is any reflection to be done, it should be done by Mr Kerr, who has been completely disingenuous about the integrity of the majority of members of the Parliament, has played politics with child abuse and has dangerously gaslit other members of the Parliament. That is a disgrace.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  30. Police Scotland is actively involved right now in reviewing investigations; right now, the child sexual abuse and exploitation national group is working with Police Scotland and people such as Professor Alexis Jay; and right now, the group is reviewing the very important work that was done by Baroness Casey in her audit. What Mr Kerr proposed would certainly not be analogous with or the same as a national inquiry; his amendment proposed that the victims and witnesses commissioner—who is still to be established and still to be recruited—do some research at some point further down the line.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  31. Let us hear Mr Kerr. Liam Kerr: In light of this shocking case, and having had a chance to reflect on the huge disappointment that was expressed by so many people after that vote, does the cabinet secretary now think that rejecting such an inquiry was a missed opportunity? To enable lessons to be learned and to prevent future abuse, will she now order a Scottish grooming gangs inquiry? Angela Constance: It is important that we focus on the facts. As Mr Kerr knows—because I specifically wrote to him on the matter—the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill was not the right route. As he well knows, the Government has always been clear that we are prepared to give every consideration to a grooming gangs inquiry if that is assessed as a necessity.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  32. Amendment 158 agreed to. The Presiding Officer: I call amendment 7, in the name of Mercedes Villalba, already debated with amendment 6. I remind members that amendments 7 and 46 are direct alternatives—that is, they can both be moved and decided on, and the text of whichever is the last to be agreed to is what will appear in the bill. Amendment 7 moved—[Mercedes Villalba]. The Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 7 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. The vote is closed.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  33. For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Ross Greer] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) [Proxy vote cast by Michael Marra] Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 86, Against 25, Abstentions 0.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  34. Amendment 157 agreed to. Amendment 158 moved—[Mairi Gougeon]. The Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 158 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  35. For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Ross Greer] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) [Proxy vote cast by Michael Marra] Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 87, Against 25, Abstentions 0.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  36. The result of the division is: For 25, Against 86, Abstentions 0. Amendment 43 disagreed to. Amendments 44 and 45 not moved. Amendment 157 moved—[Mairi Gougeon]. The Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 157 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. The vote is closed. Richard Leonard: On a point of order, Presiding Officer. My machine disconnected. I would have voted yes. The Presiding Officer: Thank you, Mr Leonard. We will ensure that that is recorded.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  37. Amendment 235 agreed to. 17:15 Amendment 236 moved—[Rhoda Grant]. The Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 236 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. The vote is closed.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  38. For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Ind) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Ross Greer] Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Marra, Michael (North East Scotland) (Lab) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) [Proxy vote cast by Michael Marra] Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) [Proxy vote cast by Fulton MacGregor] Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 88, Against 26, Abstentions 0.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  39. I can give the date of those meetings to the chamber if it is useful. The Presiding Officer: Thank you, Mr Mountain. That is not a point of order. We will continue with our business. Can I confirm that you are pressing amendment 235, Mr Doris? Bob Doris: Yes. The Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 235 be agreed to. Are we all agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  40. They are incredibly important, and not having them reflected in the land management plan seems remiss, so I am unable to support amendment 247. My final comment is on Mr Mountain’s earlier challenge to the business motion, which is pertinent to the group 4 amendments. Mr Mountain did not propose amendments at stage 2 to test the water with the Government and therefore could not work with the Government ahead of stage 3 to produce something that could have been delivered. That is an issue that Mr Mountain might want to consider in the future. Edward Mountain: On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I amend the record to say that I did work with the Government. As I am sure that the cabinet secretary will acknowledge, I specifically met the Government to discuss amendments on which I thought that common ground would be found.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  41. We are not asking for a business to set out its asking price for any potential land sale that it is thinking about, but if a business is looking at options for how to manage its land in the years ahead, and if disposing of that land is one of the potential options, it is a reasonable position to hold that the community should be aware of it. My last point is on amendment 247. Mr Eagle spoke about removing regulatory requirements for land management plans to specify how they will contribute to “achieving the net zero emissions targets”. Mr Eagle, let me tell you: we all have a part to play. The Presiding Officer: Always speak through the chair, please. Bob Doris: It is important that Mr Eagle knows that we all—every individual, family, community and business—have our part to play in meeting the net zero targets.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  42. Does the member not believe that five years is a blink of an eye when it comes to management of land, livestock and landholdings, and that 10 years would be more reasonable? Bob Doris: The bill enables any landowner to prepare a land management plan that covers as long as they like—15 years, 20 years or 30 years. However, anyone involved in farming and agriculture who does not review their business at least once every five years is doing something remiss. What Mr Mountain looks for is already contained in the bill. I say very quickly that Mr Eagle’s amendment 241 seeks to remove the line “including its potential sale” from the list of information that a land management plan must contain, and Mr Mountain’s amendment 242 is linked to that.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  43. He mentioned particularly complex plans, which gives some light and shade to the discussions that we had on the issue at stage 2, and I welcome that. Mr Mountain is keen for land management plans to be extended to a 10-year period. Of course, there is nothing to prevent a landowner from having a land management plan for 10 years and reviewing and updating it after five years, which I think would be good practice and would be within the provisions of the bill. Edward Mountain: For a farmer, a land management plan of 10 years will not mean anything. Land management plans for farmers tend to cover a much longer term than that. If someone invests in machinery and livestock, they do not invest for 10 years; they probably invest for 20 years.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  44. I call Bob Doris to wind up and to press or withdraw amendment 235. Bob Doris: I will make some very brief observations. First, I welcome the Scottish Government’s support for the amendments in my name. Ariane Burgess’s amendment 123 would mean that the intention of land management plans is to increase rather than sustain biodiversity. I have been in contact with many constituents who were keen for me to support that amendment, so I am pleased that she has won the argument with the Scottish Government. I hope that the amendment will be agreed to today. I have also spoken to the Scottish Rewilding Alliance about that. I thank Mr Mountain for the efforts that he has put in at stage 3 and for clarifying a wee bittie more what he means when he talks about how much land management plans could cost.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  45. The next item of business is a statement from John Swinney on Scotland’s commitment to international development. The First Minister will take questions at the end of his statement, so there should be no interventions or interruptions. 14:24

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  46. Topical Question Time 14:05 Prison Population 1.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  47. Motion moved, That the Parliament agrees to the following revisions to the programme of business for— (a) Tuesday 28 October 2025— after followed by Topical Questions (if selected) insert followed by First Minister’s Statement: Scotland’s Commitment to International Development (b) Thursday 30 October 2025— delete 2.30 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.30 pm Portfolio Questions: Climate Action and Energy, and Transport and insert 2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.00 pm Portfolio Questions: Climate Action and Energy, and Transport after followed by Financial Resolution: Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill insert followed by Motion on Legislative Consent: Planning and Infrastructure Bill – UK Legislation followed by Financial Resolution: Assisted Dying for Terminally Ill Adults (Scotland) Bill— [Graeme Dey] Motion agreed to.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  48. The next item of business is consideration of business motion S5M-19440, in the name of Graeme Dey, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on changes to business. Any member who wishes to speak to the motion should press their request-to-speak button now.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT

  49. Our compassion is our strength, and our mercy is not naive. Our nation ought to be measured not in how loudly we speak, but in how gently we care. Jesus said: “Whatever you do for the least of these, you do for me.” Amid the pressure and noise of public life, we can forget that decisions affect lives everywhere. Choices that are made ripple far beyond this place into homes, schools, hospitals, prisons and care homes across our land. Faith still has something to say, not as a voice of certainty, but as a quiet conviction that love, when lived out, can still heal what is broken, mend what is divided and rekindle hope where it has grown dim. May God grant each of us, in our places of influence, the wisdom to listen well, the courage to act justly and the grace to build together a Scotland that is, in every sense, better.

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  50. In the Bible, the prophet Micah asks: “What does the Lord require of you but to do justice, to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?” Those words belong not to any political movement but to the shared moral imagination that shapes our common life, because, whatever differences we hold, most of us want the same things—that no one should have to choose between heating and eating, that children should grow in safety and promise, that work should bring dignity, and that older generations should be honoured and not forgotten. We long for streets where belonging matters more than background, for communities where no one stands alone, and for a country where our measure of success is not wealth or winning, but kindness and courage. Demanding better unites and does not divide us.

    MEETING OF THE PARLIAMENT, 2025-10-28 · READ THE OFFICIAL REPORT