Alison Johnstone
No Party Affiliation · Scotland
“We will use the same voting procedure as before. Members voted by secret ballot. The Presiding Officer: Voting in this round of the Presiding Officer election is closed. I invite the scrutineers to proceed to the back of the chamber for the counting of votes. Again, candidates may also observe the count.”
“I now invite any scrutineers appointed by the candidates to go to the back of the chamber to observe the counting of ballot papers. Candidates may also observe the count.”
“The first meeting of the seventh session of the Parliament is resumed. I have received four valid nominations for the position of Presiding Officer. I shall now announce the nominations and ask all candidates, as their names are announced, to make themselves known to the chamber.”
“Ballot papers should be marked with an X before being folded and then placed in one of the ballot boxes provided at the rear of the chamber. At the end of each voting period, I shall invite any scrutineers that have been nominated by each candidate to monitor the counting of votes at the back of the chamber, which is where clerks will emp…”
“Members should remain in their seats until I invite them to collect their ballot paper from clerks at the back of the chamber. Members with surnames beginning with the letters A to F should collect their ballot papers from the desk on my left at the back of the chamber—the clerks there have their hands up.”
“15:29 On resuming— The Presiding Officer: This voting period is now open, using the same voting procedure as before. Members voted by secret ballot. The Presiding Officer: Voting in the third round of the election of the Presiding Officer is closed.”
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“Nursing also led me to relocate to Orkney in 2014. Although, I will never be an Orcadian, I have been warmly welcomed as an islander. This sense of belonging has deepened my appreciation for the enduring principles of humanism that resonate so strongly within island communities and Scottish democracy. Humanism champions the inherent dignity and worth of every individual. It calls us to reason, compassion and the pursuit of knowledge—not merely for its own sake, but to improve our collective lives. Island life is defined by community. Neighbours rely on one another to weather both literal and metaphorical storms. Here, the values of mutual respect, empathy and co-operation are not just ideals; they are daily necessities. Our shared humanity is the anchor that steadies us.”
“Good afternoon. The first item of business is time for reflection, and our time for reflection leader is Susan Macleod, who is a celebrant with the Humanist Society Scotland. Susan Macleod (Humanist Society Scotland): Good afternoon, and thank you for the opportunity to share my reflections. The year 1999 stands out as a pivotal moment in Scotland’s history: it marked the beginning of this Parliament, when hope and pride filled the air as we, the people of Scotland, embarked on a journey to create something new and positive. For me, 1999 was the year that I began my nursing career—a path that filled me with optimism and a sense of purpose as I entered a new era in my life. Nursing has profoundly shaped my world view, helping me to identify my thoughts and beliefs as being rooted in humanism.”
“Motion debated, That the Parliament welcomes the financial and administrative support from the Tam O’Shanter Trust for the recent parliamentary visit to Bhutan, and thanks Bhutan Homestay and the Loden Foundation for the additional in- country support, including arranging insightful meetings with entrepreneurs, parliamentarians and others; notes that Bhutan has a population approaching 800,000 and is set amidst the Himalayas, bordered by India and Tibet, and that its culture and governance are very different from Scotland; acknowledges its vibrant Buddhist heritage and magnificent cultural assets, including its numerous fortresses and temples, the best known of which is The Paro Taktsang, also known as the Tiger’s Nest, which is a legendary monastery that hangs precariously on the edge of a 3,120m-tall cliff; appreciates that Bhutan is notable for its use of a national happiness index to assess progress and is ranked as one of the top 20 least corrupt countries in the world; understands that its political and institutional development is less mature and very different from Scotland’s, but that there are areas where a sharing of innovative practice may prove mutually beneficial, such as on climate change, population retention, entrepreneurship, and education and skills; commends the work undertaken by the Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh to document and conserve Bhutan’s rich plant diversity; notes the view that there are opportunities to further develop relationships with Bhutan and that active consideration should be given to forming a Cross Party Group on Bhutan, with members from both Scotland and Bhutan, and including academic and cultural communities; further notes the view that there could be a useful focus on developing cultural links to enjoy and appreciate the countries' different cultural assets, and notes the invitation for the Loden Foundation to work with friends in Scotland, including those in the Falkirk East constituency.”
“The final item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-19514, in the name of Michelle Thomson, on building links with Bhutan. The debate will be concluded without any questions being put.”
“Motion agreed to, That the Parliament agrees that the Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill be passed. The Presiding Officer: That concludes decision time. I would be grateful if members who are leaving the chamber were to do so quickly and quietly. Building Links with Bhutan”
“Members should cast their votes now. The vote is closed. For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Ind) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) Regan, Ash (Edinburgh Eastern) (Ind) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Reform) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on motion S6M-20549, in the name of Gillian Martin, on the Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill, is: For 90, Against 26, Abstentions 0.”
“Motion agreed to, That the Parliament agrees to the general principles of the Greyhound Racing (Offences) (Scotland) Bill. The Presiding Officer: The next question is, that motion S6M-20579, in the name of Jim Fairlie, on the draft Common Organisation of the Markets in Agricultural Products (Fruit and Vegetables) (Miscellaneous Amendment) (Scotland) Regulations 2026, be agreed to. Motion agreed to, That the Parliament agrees that the Common Organisation of the Markets in Agricultural Products (Fruit and Vegetables) (Miscellaneous Amendment) (Scotland) Regulations 2026 [draft] be approved. The Presiding Officer: The next question is, that motion S6M-20549, in the name of Gillian Martin, on the Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill, be agreed to. As this is a motion to pass the bill at stage 3, the question must be decided by division.”
“For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (LD) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Swinney, John (Perthshire North) (SNP) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Gosal, Pam (West Scotland) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Reform) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) Abstentions Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Ind) Bibby, Neil (West Scotland) (Lab) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab) McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Sarwar, Anas (Glasgow) (Lab) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division on motion S6M-20527, in the name of Mark Ruskell, on the Greyhound Racing (Offences) (Scotland) Bill at stage 1, is: For 69, Against 27, Abstentions 19.”
“There are four questions to be put as a result of today’s business. The first question is, that motion S6M-20519, in the name of Daniel Johnson, on the Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill at stage 1, be agreed to. Motion agreed to, That the Parliament agrees to the general principles of the Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill. The Presiding Officer: The next question is, that motion S6M-20527, in the name of Mark Ruskell, on the Greyhound Racing (Offences) (Scotland) Bill at stage 1, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division.”
“Before we gallop on to decision time, I am minded to accept a motion without notice, under rule 11.2.4 of standing orders, that decision time be brought forward to now. I invite the Minister for Parliamentary Business and Veterans to move the motion.”
“5) Bill followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 5.00 pm Decision Time (b) that, for the purposes of Portfolio Questions in the week beginning 2 February 2026, in rule 13.7.3, after the word “except” the words “to the extent to which the Presiding Officer considers that the questions are on the same or similar subject matter or” are inserted.—[Graeme Dey] The Presiding Officer: I call Ash Regan to speak to and move amendment S6M-20611.1. 18:06”
“The next item of business is consideration of business motion S6M-20611, in the name of Graeme Dey, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a business programme. Motion moved, That the Parliament agrees— (a) the following programme of business— Tuesday 3 February 2026 2.00 pm Time for Reflection followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Topical Questions followed by Stage 1 Debate: Prostitution (Offences and Support) (Scotland) Bill followed by Stage 1 Debate: Desecration of War Memorials (Scotland) Bill followed by Motion on Legislative Consent: Children’s Wellbeing and Schools Bill – UK Legislation followed by Committee Announcements followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 5.55 pm Decision Time followed by Members’ Business Wednesday 4 February 2026 2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.00 pm Portfolio Questions: Deputy First Minister Responsibilities, Economy and Gaelic; Finance and Local Government followed by Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party Business followed by Motion on Reconsideration of a Bill: European Charter of Local Self-Government (Incorporation) (Scotland) Bill followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 5.40 pm Decision Time followed by Members’ Business Thursday 5 February 2026 11.40 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions 11.40 am General Questions 12.00 pm First Minister’s Questions followed by Members’ Business 2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.00 pm Portfolio Questions: Climate Action and Energy, and Transport followed by Stage 1 Debate: Ecocide (Scotland) Bill followed by Stage 1 Debate: Non-surgical Procedures and Functions of Medical Reviewers (Scotland) Bill followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 5.00 pm Decision Time Tuesday 10 February 2026 2.00 pm Time for Reflection followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions followed by Topical Questions followed by Stage 3 Proceedings: Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill followed by Committee Announcements followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 7.00 pm Decision Time followed by Members’ Business Wednesday 11 February 2026 2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.00 pm Portfolio Questions: Rural Affairs, Land Reform and Islands; Health and Social Care followed by Scottish Labour Party Business followed by Business Motions followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions 5.10 pm Decision Time followed by Members’ Business Thursday 12 February 2026 11.40 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions 11.40 am General Questions 12.00 pm First Minister’s Questions followed by Members’ Business 2.30 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions 2.30 pm Portfolio Questions: Social Justice and Housing followed by Stage 1 Debate: Budget (Scotland) (No.”
“As Martin Whitfield and all members will be aware, the accuracy of a member’s contribution is not a matter for the chair to rule on, but, as a matter of courtesy and respect, I expect all members to always strive to be accurate in their contributions. Members are also aware of the mechanisms that are available to them if they wish to correct the record. Business Motion 18:06”
“[Interruption.] If there are members who just want to come and have a good shout, perhaps they need to consider whether their behaviour is appropriate. The First Minister: I will not listen to what Russell Findlay says to me about the sustainability of the public finances. I will rely on what the credit ratings agencies say, which is that this Government represents “prudent” financial management in Scotland. That is how we deliver sustainability in the public finances, and people can rely on an SNP Government to do exactly that. Queen Elizabeth University Hospital 2.”
“He also comes along and argues for £1 billion-worth of tax cuts for individuals in Scotland, without a scrap of evidence of being able to deliver any of those tax cuts, because they will undermine public services in our country. [Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: I am sorry, First Minister. It would be helpful if we could hear one another. I have a lot of colleagues who would like to get in today. Let us make sure that we can hear one another. The First Minister: When it comes to the sustainability of the public finances, I will pay not very much attention to what Mr Findlay says to me. I will pay more attention to what the credit ratings agencies say about my Government. What they say is that—[Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: Members!”
“We identify £1 billion— [Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: Let us hear Mr Findlay. Russell Findlay: We identify £1 billion-worth of savings that can be achieved through a series of reasonable proposals. Those savings would be used to cut taxes for hard-working Scots who are being hammered by Labour and the SNP. Is it not the case that cutting taxes for the lowest paid, rather than increasing benefits, is the best way to lift people out of poverty? The First Minister: Mr Findlay comes along to First Minister’s questions and sets out his stall. We now have another chapter of that, with the hostile attitude towards vulnerable people in our society that is consistently represented by the Conservative Party.”
“The Government will ensure that there is proper support to vulnerable people as part of our efforts to lift families out of poverty. That is the mission of my Government. Russell Findlay: John Swinney can hurl all the nonsense insults that he wants, but the reality is that Scotland cannot afford to pay for the SNP’s spiralling benefits bill. To recap, we know that the SNP’s light-touch system deters work and is wide open to fraud, and that it spends—right now—more than £1 billion more on benefits than it receives in funding for them. Incredibly, Labour and Reform are okay with that. Four months ago, Audit Scotland said that John Swinney’s Government had no plan to plug the benefits black hole. There is still no plan, unless John Swinney is keeping it a secret from us. We do have a plan.”
“Russell Findlay: Does John Swinney seriously think that there have been only 29 cases of benefit fraud in Scotland? The First Minister: When we established Social Security Scotland, the Scottish Government included measures that were designed to tackle any fraud that is perpetrated within the benefits system. The development of all that activity has been pursued by Social Security Scotland, with reference to the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service when it is appropriate for individuals to be prosecuted. I accept the importance of ensuring that payments are made only to those who are entitled to them and that fraud should be pursued where there is any evidence of fraud. However, what I will not do is get into the gutter with Mr Findlay to attack vulnerable people in our society.”
““I even asked my line manager not to move me up my annual pay award band because it would have meant maybe a £30 or £40 a month addition on my salary for myself, but it would have cost me around £300 in benefits.” Encouraging people not to work is absurd and harmful, but that is not the only problem with a benefit system that SNP politicians love to boast is “light touch”. That might explain the following: in the rest of the United Kingdom, an average of 8,000 people are prosecuted for benefit fraud every year, but Social Security Scotland has reported only 29 cases to prosecutors in almost three years. Most claimants are honest, but those numbers strongly suggest that fraudsters are exploiting the SNP’s light touch system and getting away with it—[Interruption.] The Presiding Officer: Let us hear one another.”
“I want to see more parents getting into employment so that their families can be lifted out of poverty, but what I will not do and what I am absolutely determined that my Government will never do is punish the vulnerable in our society. Russell Findlay’s support for the two-child cap is a demonstration that the nasty party is back good and proper in the Conservative Party. Russell Findlay: I will read to John Swinney a line from his Government’s report, which he has probably not even read. It comes from a parent who spoke to the report’s authors.”
“The Presiding Officer: Colleagues, let us hear one another. Let us hear Mr Findlay. Russell Findlay: Surely people should be better off working than being on benefits. Is John Swinney really content with a system that encourages people to turn down a pay rise? The First Minister: The Government’s approach to eradicating child poverty involves a number of measures, one of which is about putting in place effective support for employability to enable parents to get into employment. The measures in the budget also support that by providing wraparound childcare and breakfast clubs so that we can ensure that more parents can get into employment.”
“Let us hear Mr Findlay. Russell Findlay: That is not sustainable. Just this morning, the Scottish Fiscal Commission told Parliament that the only ways to plug the benefits gap would be either by having higher taxes or by cutting money from public services. John Swinney cannot admit it, but the SNP’s benefits system is broken. It is deeply concerning that, in some cases, the system acts as a deterrent to work. The Government’s own review of the Scottish child payment revealed that some parents turn down extra work or stop working altogether and that some even told their bosses that they did not want a pay rise, because extra pay would reduce their benefits, meaning that they would end up with less money. We say that limiting the payment to two children per family would be a fair way to address that. [Interruption].”
“Good morning. The first item of business is general question time—the shortest question time that we have in the week. Seasonal Agricultural Workers (Accommodation Standards) 1.”
“There are seven questions to be put as a result of today’s business. The first question is, that amendment S6M-20561.1, in the name of Neil Gray, which seeks to amend motion S6M-20561, in the name of Anas Sarwar, on the role of political decision making in national health service scandals, be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No. The Presiding Officer: There will be a division. The vote is closed.”
“The next item of business is consideration of Parliamentary Bureau motion S6M-20575, on approval of a Scottish statutory instrument. I ask Graeme Dey, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, to move the motion. Motion moved, That the Parliament agrees that the Land and Buildings Transaction Tax (Investment Zones Relief) (Scotland) Order 2026 [draft] be approved.—[Graeme Dey] 21:57”
“The next item of business is consideration of business motion S6M-20569, in the name of Graeme Dey, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a business programme. However, I understand that the motion has been withdrawn. 21:55”
“Amendment 186 agreed to. The Presiding Officer: Group 18 is on forestry. Amendment 40, in the name of Mercedes Villalba, is grouped with amendment 41.”
“For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Beattie, Colin (Midlothian North and Musselburgh) (SNP) Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab) Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP) Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP) Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Callaghan, Stephanie (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green) Choudhury, Foysol (Lothian) (Ind) Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab) Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP) Cole-Hamilton, Alex (Edinburgh Western) (LD) Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP) Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP) Don-Innes, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP) Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP) Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP) FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP) Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP) Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) Grahame, Christine (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green) Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab) Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP) Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green) Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP) Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP) Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP) Lochhead, Richard (Moray) (SNP) MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP) MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green) Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP) Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (Ind) Matheson, Michael (Falkirk West) (SNP) McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP) McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab) Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab) Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD) Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP) Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP) Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Russell, Davy (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (Lab) Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Reform) Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green) Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP) Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP) Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP) Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab) Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP) Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP) Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP) Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP) Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab) Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP) Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD) Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP) Against Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Ind) Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con) Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con) Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con) Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con) Eagle, Tim (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ewing, Fergus (Inverness and Nairn) (Ind) Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con) Gallacher, Meghan (Central Scotland) (Con) Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con) Hamilton, Rachael (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con) Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con) Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con) Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con) McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con) Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con) White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con) Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con) The Presiding Officer: The result of the division is: For 81, Against 26, Abstentions 0.”
“I call Ariane Burgess to wind up and say whether she wishes to press or withdraw amendment 186. Ariane Burgess: I press amendment 186. The Presiding Officer: The question is, that amendment 186 be agreed to. Are we agreed? We are— Members: No. The Presiding Officer: Okay. I would be grateful, colleagues, for a loud shout-out. Thank you. There will be a division.”
“Amendment 60, in the name of the Minister for Agriculture and Connectivity, is grouped with amendments 60A and 148 to 152.”
“The next item of business is stage 3 proceedings on the Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill. In dealing with the amendments, members should have the bill as amended at stage 2—that is, Scottish Parliament bill 59A—the marshalled list and the groupings of amendments. The division bell will sound and proceedings will be suspended for around five minutes if there is a division. The period of voting for the division will be 30 seconds. Members who wish to speak in the debate on an amendment should press their request-to-speak button or enter RTS in the chat function as soon as an amendment is called. Members should now refer to the marshalled list of amendments. Section 33D—Gull numbers The Presiding Officer: Group 11 is on gulls.”
“The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-20550, in the name of Jim Fairlie, on a legislative consent motion for the Sustainable Aviation Fuel Bill, which is United Kingdom legislation. I would be grateful if members who wish to speak would press their request-to-speak buttons. 17:40”
“The next item of business is a statement by John Swinney on an update on the MV Bella 1. The First Minister will take questions at the end of his statement, so there should be no interventions or interruptions. 17:09”
“However, those concerns do not reflect how the scheme will operate in practice. NatureScot already exercises discretion, considering factors such as intent, foreseeability, the adequacy of management systems and proportionality, before taking any licensing action. In relation to the suspension of grouse licences, NatureScot still has discretion over whether to suspend or revoke such a licence, even if it is satisfied that a relevant offence has been committed. That enables NatureScot to assess cases on their merits. For those reasons, I encourage members to oppose amendments 178, 181 and 183 to 185.”
“Amendments 178 and 181 would risk reopening vulnerabilities that the Government explicitly closed through the stage 2 amendment that was introduced to remove the potential loopholes and to strengthen the enforceability of the scheme. Amendments 183, 184 and 185 would narrow the circumstances in which a grouse shooting licence could be suspended or revoked by the licensing authority. In doing so, those amendments would undermine the Government’s stage 2 amendment by reintroducing the gaps that could be exploited to avoid accountability. Those changes risk weakening the scheme’s effectiveness by narrowing the circumstances in which a licence may be suspended or revoked. It is recognised that some landowners are concerned about highly exceptional or edge-case scenarios.”
“Introducing the amendment would reduce operational flexibility and increase bureaucracy, binding management to rigid legislative requirements rather than allowing schemes to adapt pragmatically to changing conditions on the ground. I ask the member not to move amendment 177. Amendments 178 to 185 propose a series of changes to legislation governing the grouse shooting licensing scheme. Amendments 179, 180 and 182 seek to prescribe procedural requirements that are already implicit in NatureScot’s role as a public authority and would add in wording that is not strictly necessary. However, including what is proposed in legislation might provide additional clarity to applicants, so I am happy to support the amendments, and I encourage members to support them, too.”
“I am, of course, very happy to meet the member to hear any further suggested improvements to the schemes. I also note that I meet stakeholders regularly, including NFU Scotland, through the strategic wildlife and land management forum, which I established to discuss the tensions, and to identify practical solutions, between land management objectives and the management of certain wildlife species. In addition, the Scottish Government already invests significant public funding in goose management, with around £1 million allocated annually to support those schemes. Primary legislation is therefore not required to achieve the objectives of amendment 177, because effective mechanisms are already operating through the existing goose management arrangements.”
“The current red squirrel conservation strategies are evidence led and adaptive. Introducing a statutory review would create unnecessary costs and divert limited resources away from practical conservation work. I am sure that none of us would want to see that. The focus should therefore be on strengthening and delivering the existing programmes rather than imposing redundant statutory obligations. For those reasons, I urge members to oppose amendment 171. Indeed, I ask Rachael Hamilton not to move it. On amendment 177, in the name of Jamie Halcro Johnston, I absolutely recognise the concerns that have been raised about goose populations causing damage. However, comprehensive goose management schemes are already in place, covering highly protected species and those whose numbers require control.”
“On amendment 168, in the name of Tim Eagle, the Scottish Government already provides targeted and effective support for land managers who are affected by species introductions through well-established mechanisms, including the sea eagle management scheme and the beaver mitigation scheme, which are both delivered by NatureScot. The schemes provide practical assistance and financial support where the impacts are evident. Crucially, the existing arrangements address real and identifiable impacts without creating blanket statutory entitlement, while allowing NatureScot the flexibility to respond quickly, proportionately and on a case-by-case basis. I therefore ask the member not to move the amendment. Should he do so, I ask members not to support it. I will turn to amendment 171 in the name of Rachael Hamilton.”
“However, we are working jointly with other UK Administrations on a comprehensive consultation that is examining all the schedule 2 species where population pressures are of concern. We are on track to publish the consultation alongside our proposed approach in March, enabling stakeholders to submit their views and ensuring that the implications of any changes to schedule 2 are fully and properly considered before implementation. I hope that that reassures the member that the matter is being actively taken forward just now. I therefore ask him not to move the amendment. Should he do so, I ask members not to support it.”
“Amendment 165 seeks to provide for hunting only under tightly controlled licensing issued by NatureScot and the number of mountain hare likely to be taken under any such licence would be limited and insignificant. On that basis, I am content to support amendment 165, and I encourage members to do the same. However, the additional provision that is contained in amendment 164 is unnecessary and I ask the member not to move the amendment. John Mason’s amendment 166 seeks to remove ptarmigan from schedule 2 to the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, which would have the effect of ending the open season and prohibiting them from being hunted except under licence. I recognise the member’s concerns regarding ptarmigan, as he has written to me a number of times, and the declines in their population.”
“Presiding Officer, I will hand over to Mr Fairlie to respond to the rest of the amendments in the group. Jim Fairlie: I start with Willie Rennie’s amendments 164 and 165, which would allow falconers to hunt mountain hare but only under licence granted by NatureScot and outside the breeding season. That issue has been subject to extensive scrutiny over a number of years, including detailed consideration by the Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee, alongside sustained engagement with the stakeholders who are involved, as Willie Rennie outlined clearly. I fully recognise the strength of feeling on both sides of the debate. The decision that was taken in 2020 to protect mountain hares from indiscriminate culling was necessary and it remains important.”
“I welcome the engagement that I have had and I am committed to taking the necessary action, but not before we have heard the views and seen the results from ESS, which is carrying out that wide-ranging review on the issue. It is taking evidence from delivery bodies and stakeholders. Once we have the outcome of those investigations, we will be informed about what is needed. I am happy to give a commitment that I will review the recommendations from the ESS work on INNS and work with stakeholders on the INNS action plan as timeously as possible. Given everything that I have set out, I cannot support amendment 159. I hope that she understands that the Government is doing that work on the issue and that we want it to be as well informed as possible.”
“In addition, given that there will be an election in May, it would not be practical to draft a plan that would cover all the elements that would be required by the amendment, to undertake a full public consultation and respond to it, and to publish the plan within the 12-month period that is specified. I mentioned previously that Environmental Standards Scotland is investigating a number of aspects relating to INNS, which include some of the things that amendment 159 proposes that a plan should cover. I am keen to see the outcomes of that work before deciding on the next steps. I believe that that is a prudent approach. I do not want to directly cut across that important work. I had a good discussion about that with Beatrice Wishart a couple of weeks ago. I am very conscious of the strength of feeling on invasive non-native species.”
“Beatrice Wishart’s amendment 159 would place a requirement on ministers to produce a statutory invasive non-native species action plan. However, we are already in the middle of developing an invasive non-native species plan—I will just say INNS from now on, in order to save time—and we have worked closely with stakeholders on that. As I made clear when the matter was discussed at committee, I am committed to delivering effective action to address INNS in collaboration with stakeholders. I do not consider that it is necessary to put everything in primary legislation, because doing so would create an unnecessary additional administrative burden without delivering any meaningful additional benefits. Crucially, it would also risk delaying publication of the INNS plan and losing much of the momentum that we have built around that work.”
“If the minister supports that principle, and given what she said at stage 2, I do not understand why she avoided meeting me on that issue with a view to lodging an amendment at stage 3. Gillian Martin: I assure the chamber that I am not having an identity crisis. [Laughter.] I am flattered that I have been mixed up, even in my own head, with Ms Gougeon, who is substantially younger than me. I ask that Ms Villalba does not move her amendment 61. I reject her characterisation of the meeting. I was in the same room and we were having the same discussion. We are the same team and we were able to come up with amendment 40 in the group. Ms Gougeon will speak to that. As members can see, there are three ministers sitting on the Government front bench and we are all working together.”
“I worked with her on them, and I have brought my proposal back at stage 3 in the form of amendment 40. However, Ms Martin is a completely distinct individual—[Laughter]—who, as I said, made it clear that she would be willing to meet me specifically on my stage 2 amendment 56, which I have brought back at stage 3 in the form of amendment 61. I take on board what Ms Martin says about disputing a claim, but the amendment is not about a claim. Its aim is to ensure exactly what she said—that exemptions for invasive non-native species will not be made solely for economic or commercial reasons. That is what the amendment is about. It does not say that that is happening; it is about making sure that it does not happen.”
“Their abilities to quickly sequester carbon and to reduce erosion and flooding are just a few of the other benefits that could be used to justify their exemption. It is therefore my view that amendment 61 is redundant. I also think that it is a bit of a shame that Ms Villalba has claimed that I did not work with her on that issue. I highlight that both I and Ms Gougeon worked with Ms Villalba on her amendment 40, which will be debated later in group 18 and will allow better regulation of the spread of invasive species in a forestry context. 21:00 Mercedes Villalba: The cabinet secretary seems to be mixing herself up with her colleague. She is absolutely right to say that I met Ms Gougeon to discuss amendments to part 4 that I lodged at stage 2.”
“Amendment 61, from Mercedes Villalba, aims to remove the ability to exempt non-native species from the invasive species offences listed in section 14 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 where the sole purpose of the order is for “economic or commercial” reasons. I agree that we should seek to ensure that, where we allow non-native species to be utilised in Scotland, there should be multiple benefits to that rather than only one. It is for that reason that I believe that amendment 61 is not required. I understand that the amendment primarily targets non-native tree species, but those non-native tree species already provide multiple benefits beyond their importance as a timber crop. It is not true to say that only the economic worth as a timber product is important, and I reject that claim.”
“Today’s amendment will provide assurance that the Scottish Government will take forward action and will consult on future measures to introduce a requirement “for the installation of swift nest boxes” in new buildings, with reference to best practice guidance, including British standard 42021:2022, where it is reasonably practical and appropriate to do so. That represents a more suitable approach to regulation. We fully support amendment 141 and I encourage all members to do so. Amendment 45 is a minor and technical amendment that adds the words “to make certain other miscellaneous provisions relating to environmental matters” to the long title of the bill, reflecting new topics that were added to the bill by amendments at stage 2. I hope that all members will support that.”