Sir Stephen Timms
MP for East Ham · Labour · United Kingdom
“I agree with the hon. Gentleman. If he would like to send me details of that particular case, I will happily look into it. On the subject of people with hearing impairments, my right hon. Friend the Minister for Women and Equalities and I will be meeting the British Sign Language Advisory Board this afternoon.”
“Better outcomes require early identification and support for girls and young women with special educational needs, including dyslexia. That is the aim of the SEND reforms and the development of national inclusion standards.”
“Autistic people and people with ADHD have been struggling to get the right support at the right time. Recommendations from Professor Karen Guldberg’s neurodivergence task and finish group directly informed the SEND reforms that were published earlier this year.”
“The Equality Act 2010 places a duty on public bodies to make reasonable adjustments, so that disabled people are not put at a disadvantage by accessibility challenges.”
“The hon. Gentleman raises an important point. This benefit is there to contribute to the additional costs of disability. Too often, what has happened—my hon.”
“I think we can take the hon. Member’s question as a tacit recognition that in 14 years the previous Government should have done something to fix these problems. The steering group is clear that the provision of cash to meet the additional costs of disability is vital.”
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“I give my hon. Friend a firm assurance that not only have we been listening, but we shall continue to listen once the proposals have been published.”
“The Motability scheme is highly valued by disabled people around the UK. If the hon. and learned Gentleman has examples of misuse of that scheme, I would very much like to see them, but it is a scheme that is greatly prized right across the House. I think he would discover that if he talked to other Members about it.”
“I beg to move, That the Committee has considered the draft Mesothelioma Lump Sum Payments (Conditions and Amounts) (Amendment) Regulations 2025.”
“The Department is also increasing investment in the next financial year to improve the condition of school buildings, lifting the total investment to £2.1 billion. That is on top of the continuing school rebuilding programme, which is replacing or refurbishing buildings in the poorest condition at over 500 schools. I am confident that everyone will join me in recognising the continuing importance of the compensation offered by these two schemes. I am required to confirm, and gladly do so, that these provisions are compatible with the European convention on human rights. I commend the increases to the payment rates under these two schemes, and I ask the Committee’s approval to implement them.”
“In January last year, HSE launched a communications campaign on the duty to manage, which was called “Asbestos—Your Duty”, to raise awareness and understanding of the legal obligation to share information on asbestos in any workplace to those who might disturb it. There is particular concern about the presence of asbestos in schools—there is a lot of asbestos in many schools across the country—and there has been a growing number of retired schoolteachers among those succumbing to mesothelioma, which is a serious concern. The Department for Education expects all local authorities, governing bodies and academy trusts to have robust plans in place to manage asbestos in school buildings effectively, in line with their legal duties, drawing on appropriate professional advice.”
“The Health and Safety Executive, which reports to my Department, has a very important role in enabling employers to act to prevent and reduce the most common causes of work-related ill health. Exposure to asbestos remains the largest single cause of work-related deaths in the UK, in the order of about 5,000 a year. The Work and Pensions Committee published an important report on the Health and Safety Executive’s approach to asbestos management three years ago, and the Department is currently having another look at its recommendations. Following the asbestos awareness campaigns of previous decades, HSE makes a wide range of information available on its website.”
“To recognise the terrible suffering that these diseases can bring to whole families, claims can be made to either scheme by a dependant, if the person with a disease dies before being able to make a claim. They are both very important schemes. Between April 2023 and March 2024—the latest financial year for which data is available—there were 1,620 awards under the 1979 Act scheme and 320 under the 2008 Act scheme, so there were nearly 2,000 between them both. Expenditure on lump sum awards under both schemes totalled £30 million in 2023-24. Timely financial support through these schemes, following a diagnosis, is very important. We also need to ensure that fewer people succumb to these awful diseases in the future.”
“To have payment of IIDB, someone must have been assessed as having at least 14% disablement, but someone with less than that can still be eligible for one of these payments. The 2008 Act scheme was introduced to provide compensation to people diagnosed with diffuse mesothelioma who are unable to claim compensation under the 1979 Act. That could be because they were self-employed at the time, or because their exposure to asbestos was not at work. The 2008 Act scheme therefore filled in a bit of a gap in the former provision. It provides no-fault support to sufferers of diffuse mesothelioma quickly, at a point when their need is typically quite pressing.”
“The 1979 Act scheme provides a single lump-sum compensation payment to eligible people with the diseases covered by the scheme, including pneumoconiosis, a disease associated particularly with coal mining, and diffuse mesothelioma, caused by exposure to asbestos fibres. The schemes cover people who are unable to claim damages from an employer—for example, because the employer has gone out of business—and who have not brought any action against another party for damages. To be eligible for a lump-sum award, a claimant must be awarded industrial injuries disablement benefit for a disease covered by the 1979 Act scheme, or would be awarded IIDB but for their low percentage disablement.”
“There is no statutory requirement to increase these rates in line with prices each year. I am following the long-established approach of previous Governments; the instruments increase the value of the awards by 1.7%, in line with the consumer price index of last September. The new rates will apply to those who first become entitled to a payment from 1 April this year. The increase will, as previously, be in line with the proposed increases to industrial injuries disablement benefit, alongside uprating for all the main working-age benefits in the coming year. Let me say a bit about the background to the two schemes.”
“I am delighted to be serving under your chairmanship for the first time this afternoon, Sir Jeremy. This debate, which happens every year, gives us a good opportunity to consider not only the uprating instruments, but the wider topic of dust-related diseases that are covered by these schemes, and to consider the impact that the diseases have on sufferers and their families. The instruments increase the value of one-off lump sum payments made under two no-fault compensation schemes administered by the Department for Work and Pensions. The two schemes are the one under the Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers’ Compensation) Act 1979, which I shall refer to as the 1979 Act scheme, and the 2008 diffuse mesothelioma scheme—under the Child Maintenance and Other Payments Act 2008—which I shall refer to as the 2008 Act scheme.”
“DRAFT PNEUMOCONIOSIS ETC. (WORKERS’ COMPENSATION) (PAYMENT OF CLAIMS) (AMENDMENT) REGULATIONS 2025 Resolved, That the Committee has considered the draft Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers’ Compensation) (Payment Of Claims) (Amendment) Regulations 2025. —(Sir Stephen Timms.)”
“NHS England has 13 respiratory clinical networks across the country, and the NHS will invest in more and better rehabilitation services for patients with respiratory diseases in its long-term plan. Research is very important; the National Institute for Health and Care Research, through the Leicester Biomedical Research Centre, has a long-standing programme of research to develop treatments for mesothelioma. That includes looking at personalised treatment pathways to identify which patients are likely to get the greatest benefit from differing types of drug therapies. I will drop the shadow Minister and members of the Committee a line with the additional data that she asked for. I commend the amendments to the schemes to the Committee, and hope that it will approve of their implementation. Question put and agreed to.”
“That recommendation has not been adopted, but as I mentioned in my opening remarks, I am talking to the Health and Safety Executive at the moment about what more might be done in this area. I hope we will be able to say something about that very soon. I welcome the support for and interest across the House in these schemes. They are very important, and as the shadow Minister pointed out, the regulations will ensure that the payments maintain their value. Of course, other help is available to people with these diseases, such as the industrial injuries disablement benefit, which I mentioned, universal credit and the new-style employment and support allowance. The Department for Health and Social Care is taking these matters very seriously.”
“The shadow Minister asked what we are doing about prevention. I am very concerned about this issue, and asbestos, in particular, is something that we need to take seriously. There is a lot of asbestos still in schools and hospitals, so it is not only retired teachers that we are seeing in the fatality statistics nowadays, but retired medics and nurses. The Work and Pensions Committee, in its report three years ago, recommended that a deadline should be set for the Government to ensure the removal of all asbestos from UK workplaces, and suggested a target of 40 years to do that. We have an enormous amount of asbestos in the UK; I think we have more per head than any other country.”
“The figure I cited of 5,000 fatalities a year from asbestos-related diseases has been at that level for quite a long time, but the expectation is that it will fall. The pneumoconiosis figures are probably flatter. It may be that we have fuller information on that, and if we have, I would be pleased to drop the shadow Minister a line and copy that to the other Committee members. I have done a quick calculation, and I think the average payment amount comes to £15,000—as there are roughly 2,000 people and £30 million in total. I would expect that kind of figure to be maintained. As for the long-term cost of the scheme, in line with what I was saying, I expect that it will generally decline. If we look at the numbers each year, they have tended to drift downwards, and the expectation is that that will continue.”
“I am grateful for the support across the Committee for the regulations. Let me have a go at answering the questions that the shadow Minister raised. I do not think we have a better estimate for the numbers in the coming year than the ones I gave for the previous year. It is likely that the numbers over time will decrease. It is 26 years since the use of asbestos in new buildings was banned in the UK. It was quite a tough fight to deliver that in 1999. The Canadian Government strongly resisted because Canada was largely where the asbestos was coming from. It is interesting that we banned it in the UK, and then it was banned right across the west very quickly after that. So there is perhaps a downward trend, but it is not entirely clear.”
“The Government have made and published their decision. We accepted the ombudsman’s finding of maladministration and apologised for the delay in writing to the women affected. We have started working with the ombudsman to make sure that lessons are learnt, and we will develop a plan for effective and timely state pension communication.”
“I can reassure my hon. Friend that we have been elected on a manifesto of change, and change is we what will deliver. We have been working hard on Grangemouth. On the question of WASPI, we do not think that compensation is appropriate. The evidence is that 90% of those affected did know that a change was coming, but we cannot work out now who did and who did not know. Among those investigated by the ombudsman, nobody lost out financially from not knowing, so we could not justify paying out up to £10 billion in compensation. Instead, we are going to work to make sure that the problem never happens again.”
“We are going to work with the ombudsman to make sure that this never happens again. A detailed report will be published, and we are committed to making sure that in future, sufficient notice is given of any state pension changes. We are also going to develop a communications strategy using the most up-to-date methods for the state pension. For example, the “check your state pension” service gives a forecast including telling people when they can take their state pension.”
“We are fully committed to maintaining the pension triple lock. There is some confusion about the position of the Conservative party, and I hope that the shadow Minister will clarify the position when he speaks.”
“In my view, the instruments are compatible with the European convention on human rights. The draft Social Security Benefits Up-rating Order 2025 will increase relevant state pension rates by 4.1%, in line with the growth in average earnings in the year to May to July 2024. It will increase most other benefit rates by 1.7%, in line with the rise in the consumer prices index in the year to September 2024. The Government’s commitment to the triple lock means that the basic and full rate of the new state pension will be uprated by whichever is highest out of the growth in earnings, the growth in prices, or 2.5%. That will mean 4.1% for 2025-26. From April this year, the basic state pension will increase from £169.50 per week to £176.45, and the full rate of the new state pension will increase from £221.20 to £230.25.”
“My understanding, from what the Leader of the Opposition has said, is that the Conservative party is no longer committed to the triple lock, let alone the triple lock plus. I can tell the hon. Member that we do not have any plans to do what he suggests.”
“We received around 150,000 pension credit applications in the 16 weeks after the winter fuel payment announcement.”
“I simply point out to the hon. Gentleman that his party appears to no longer be committed to the triple lock. We look forward to clarification on that point from the shadow Minister. Other components of state pension awards, such as those previously built up under earnings-related state pension schemes, including the additional state pension, will increase by 1.7% in line with prices. The Government are committed to supporting pensioners on the lowest incomes, so the safety net provided by the pension credit standard minimum guarantee will increase by 4.1%. For single pensioners, that means an increase from £218.15 to £227.10 per week; for couples, the increase is from £332.95 to £346.60 per week. We want everybody entitled to that support to receive it, which is why we launched the national pension credit campaign.”
“I am pleased to say that that move has been very widely welcomed, and we expect it to bring an additional 60,000 unpaid carers into eligibility for the benefit, and, crucially, to reduce the likelihood that carers who manage to combine some work with their caring responsibilities will inadvertently fall foul of the earnings limit, because, in future, that threshold will keep up with changes in the national living wage. On disability and carer’s benefits, we will continue to ensure that carers, and people who face additional costs because of disability or health impairment, get the support that they need, and we will set out proposals for reform of health and disability benefits in a Green Paper in the spring.”
“Benefits for those who have additional costs as a result of disability or health impairments will also increase by 1.7%. That includes disability living allowance, attendance allowance and personal independence payment. The order will also increase carer’s allowance by 1.7%. The Chancellor announced in the Budget that, from April, the weekly carer’s allowance earnings threshold will be pegged to the level of 16 hours’ work at the national living wage. That means that, from April, unpaid carers will be able to earn up to £196 per week net earnings and still receive carer’s allowance, compared with £151 now.”
“For those below state pension age, the order increases the personal and standard allowances of working-age benefits, including universal credit, by 1.7%, in line with the increase in prices in the year to September 2024. In the Budget last November, the Chancellor announced that the maximum repayment deduction from universal credit payments will be reduced from April, from 25% of the universal credit standard allowance to 15%—the fair repayment rate—and 1.2 million households are expected to benefit from that change by an average of £420 per year. In addition, the order increases statutory payments by 1.7%. That includes statutory maternity pay, statutory paternity pay, statutory shared parental pay and statutory sick pay.”
“The hon. Gentleman is quite right; it is important that applications are processed speedily, and I am pleased with the number of applications. I can confirm—I think he knows this—that everybody who applied before 21 December will receive, if they are successful, their winter fuel payment. We have also moved extra staff on to pension credit processing. However, the hon. Gentleman is quite right to raise that point. Universal credit and the legacy means-tested benefits that it replaces provide support for people of working age. We have committed in our manifesto to reviewing universal credit, so that it makes work pay and tackles poverty, and we will set out shortly how we plan to fulfil that commitment.”
“I have seen representations along those lines. It is not something that we are considering at the moment, but we are, as I have mentioned, committed to reviewing universal credit, and we will do so over the course of this year. I imagine that we will be looking at a very wide variety of representations, and the hon. Gentleman and others will be very welcome to make submissions to us along those lines. Lastly, let me say a word about the draft Guaranteed Minimum Pensions Increase Order 2025.”
“The draft Guaranteed Minimum Pensions Increase Order requires formerly contracted-out occupational pension schemes to pay an increase of 1.7% on GMPs in payment earned between April 1988 and April 1997, providing people with a measure of protection against inflation, paid for by their scheme. I commend to the House the draft Social Security Benefits Up-rating Order 2025 and the draft Guaranteed Minimum Pensions Increase Order 2025.”
“The draft Social Security Benefits Up-rating Order, if Parliament approves it this afternoon, commits the Government to increased expenditure of £6.9 billion in 2025-26. The changes will mainly come into effect from 7 April and will apply for the tax year 2025-26. The order maintains the triple lock, benefiting pensioners who are in receipt of the basic and new state pensions; raises the level of the safety net in pension credit beyond the increase in prices; increases the rate of benefits for people in the labour market; and increases the rate of carer’s benefits and support to help with additional costs arising from disability or health impairment.”
“The draft Guaranteed Minimum Pensions Increase Order sets out the yearly amount by which the GMP part of an individual’s contracted-out occupational pension earned between April 1988 and April 1997 must be increased if it is in payment. The increases paid by occupational pension schemes help to provide a measure of inflation protection to people who are in receipt of GMPs earned between those two years. Legislation requires that GMPs earned between those two dates must be increased by the percentage increase in the general level of prices, as measured the previous September, capped at 3%. This year, it means that the order will increase the relevant part of the GMP by the September 2024 consumer prices index figure, which is 1.7%.”
“We are not able to say whether the two-child limit will be removed, but all those things will be considered carefully during production of the report, which the taskforce will bring forward. We are not looking, I do not think, at changing the arrangements around the overall welfare cap. Of course, there is always some confusion between the individual benefit cap and the overall welfare cap. As the right hon. Member said, there was a debate last week on the overall cap. There is certainly scope for debate about that and, indeed, the benefit cap as well, but we are not proposing any changes to those arrangements in the short term.”
“On the two-child limit, as the right hon. Member knows, we very quickly set up after the general election the child poverty taskforce, which is looking in a very ambitious way at the whole range of levers that the Government have at their disposal for tackling the problem of child poverty. We would very much like to repeat the success of the last Labour Government in reducing child poverty so dramatically in when in office. I say that with particularly strong feeling, having taken the Child Poverty Act 2010 through the House towards the end of that Government’s term. Under consideration certainly will be social security changes—we will look at what changes might be appropriate.”
“To clarify the position further, what happened was that the leader of the hon. Gentleman’s party was asked on LBC whether she would look at the triple lock, and her reply was, “we’re going to look at means testing. Means testing is something which we don’t do properly here.” What did she mean by that?”
“He was right to draw attention to the high level of support among young people for the triple lock policy, which matters right across the age range. The hon. Member for Aberdeenshire North and Moray East (Seamus Logan) was right to call for certainty about pensions. People need to know what the position will be when they reach retirement age. The last Labour Government reduced the number of pensioners below the poverty line by a million. Sadly, as we have been reminded in this debate, it has gone up again over the last few years. We want to get back on the better track that we were on before. That was picked up in the remarks of the hon. Member for Leicester South (Shockat Adam).”
“She made an important contribution to the work of the Committee in the last Parliament, and had an important and positive influence over the whole direction of the Committee. She highlighted, as she often does, the position of vulnerable benefit claimants and how they are looked after. I look forward to giving evidence to her in the Committee next week as work resumes on an inquiry of the Committee from the last Parliament. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Torbay (Steve Darling), who called for a taper in carer’s allowance. As he will have heard, the Chancellor announced in the Budget in November that we would look at the case for a taper. I hope to be able to update the House on that reasonably soon. I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Chipping Barnet (Dan Tomlinson) for what he said.”
“With the leave of the House, I thank everyone who has contributed to the debate. There have been some helpful contributions on important issues. I am grateful for the support expressed for the measures in the orders, and for the kind things said about me, which I will enjoy while they last. Let me thank in particular the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for East Wiltshire (Danny Kruger), for drawing attention to the contributions of others who spoke in such debates in the past. He named Paul Maynard, David Linden and Nigel Mills, and he was absolutely right to do so. I am particularly grateful to Nigel Mills for his help in the work of the Work and Pensions Committee, and I am delighted that the Committee is now in the good hands of my hon. Friend the Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams).”
“I have already spoken in the debate about the two-child cap, and we will be coming forward with the report and strategy proposed by the child poverty taskforce. On pensioner poverty, I think that substantial measures will be needed, and we will come forward with those in due course.”
“This year, GMPs accrued between 1988 and 1997 must by law be increased by 1.7%, which is the increase in the consumer prices index in the year up to September 2024. The GMP is important in giving people assurance about a level below which their scheme pension cannot fall. I commend both orders to the House. Question put and agreed to. Resolved, That the draft Social Security Benefits Up-rating Order 2025, which was laid before this House on 15 January, be approved. Pensions Resolved, That the draft Guaranteed Minimum Pensions Increase Order 2025, which was laid before this House on 16 January, be approved.— (Martin McCluskey.)”
“I am not quite sure what change the hon. Gentleman is referring to, but I certainly agree that people need to be confident about what the arrangements will be in the future so that they can plan accordingly. That is the one of the reasons why the pensions triple lock is important, as it gives people confidence about how things will be in the future. We are: increasing the basic state pension and the new state pension in line with earnings growth by 4.1%, meeting our commitment to the triple lock; increasing the pension credit standard minimum guarantee in line with earnings growth by 4.1%; increasing benefits to meet additional disability needs and carers’ benefits in line with prices; and increasing working-age benefits in line with prices as well, at 1.7%.”
“We are fully committed to helping vulnerable people into work. It is good for them, it provides firms with great workers, it reduces the benefits bill, and it boosts economic growth. Connect to Work, which will be rolled out this year, will greatly improve support.”
“Yes, I definitely do understand his concerns. Our view is that disabled people should have the same chance to work—the same opportunities—that everyone else takes for granted, and we want to work with disabled people to reform the system to ensure that that is what they get. In the spring, we will publish a Green Paper on reforms to the health conditions and disability benefits system.”
“I think my hon. Friend will greatly welcome the youth guarantee announced in the “Get Britain Working” White Paper. We want to ensure that every single young person gets the same chance. We have seen a dreadful increase in the number of NEET young people over the past few years, and we are getting to grips with that and tackling it.”
“We will champion disabled people and those with long-term health conditions. Our “Get Britain Working” plan will support many more who were failed by the last Government to enter and stay in work. We will devolve power to local areas for a joined-up work, health and skills offer.”
“I commend my hon. Friend for her previous work. She raises a very important point. We have launched the “Keep Britain Working” review, which is being led by Sir Charlie Mayfield, the ex-chair of the John Lewis Partnership. It will look at exactly the point that my hon. Friend raises: how to make workplaces and the wider labour market more inclusive, because we know, and employers know, that that is good for businesses and good for disabled people.”
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The manifesto on which he and I fought the election committed us to putting the views and voices of disabled people at the heart of what we do. In the “Get Britain Working” White Paper, we announced the establishment of a disability employment panel to enable us to work with disabled people, ensure that we provide the necessary support and give them the chances that my hon. Friend rightly calls for.”
“My hon. Friend’s important point, which to some extent has already been raised, shows how the health and disability benefits system needs to be reformed. Disabled people should have the same right to work and the same opportunities and chances as everybody else. Many disabled people like Jim want the chance to work, but they face barriers, including in the benefits system, that make it very difficult for them to do so. We are determined to change the system to get over those barriers.”
“I am sure that the right hon. Member will raise that concern with the appropriate colleagues of mine. He is absolutely right to draw attention to the value of the work of learning disability nurses, whoever their employer is. We are determined that they should have better support to enable people with learning disabilities who want to work to do so.”