Sir Stephen Timms
MP for East Ham · Labour · United Kingdom
“I agree with the hon. Gentleman. If he would like to send me details of that particular case, I will happily look into it. On the subject of people with hearing impairments, my right hon. Friend the Minister for Women and Equalities and I will be meeting the British Sign Language Advisory Board this afternoon.”
“Better outcomes require early identification and support for girls and young women with special educational needs, including dyslexia. That is the aim of the SEND reforms and the development of national inclusion standards.”
“Autistic people and people with ADHD have been struggling to get the right support at the right time. Recommendations from Professor Karen Guldberg’s neurodivergence task and finish group directly informed the SEND reforms that were published earlier this year.”
“The Equality Act 2010 places a duty on public bodies to make reasonable adjustments, so that disabled people are not put at a disadvantage by accessibility challenges.”
“The hon. Gentleman raises an important point. This benefit is there to contribute to the additional costs of disability. Too often, what has happened—my hon.”
“I think we can take the hon. Member’s question as a tacit recognition that in 14 years the previous Government should have done something to fix these problems. The steering group is clear that the provision of cash to meet the additional costs of disability is vital.”
The complete record
Every one of 5,185 lines we hold for Sir Stephen Timms, in date order, each linked to its source. Free to read, in full, without an account. Page 20 of 104.
“My reading of the proposed new schedule is that it gives the Department the power to look into the bank accounts of people claiming the state pension. Am I right about that?”
“Can the Minister give us an example of the circumstances in which the Department would need to look into the bank accounts of people claiming state pensions in order to tackle the fraud problem? Why is the state pension within the scope of this amendment?”
“I think that all of us would agree, whatever party we are in, that the powers of the state should be limited to those absolutely necessary. The power in the new clause is definitely not absolutely necessary. Indeed, no one has been able to come up with any reason for why it would ever be used.”
“The Minister said earlier that the powers of the state should be limited to those absolutely necessary, and I have always understood that to be a principle of the Conservative party. Yet on the power in the new clause to look into the bank account of everybody claiming a state pension, he was unable to give us any reason why the Government should do such a thing, or why they would ever need to look into the bank accounts of people—everybody—claiming a state pension. What on earth would the Government need to do that for? The entitlement to the state pension is not based on income, savings or anything like that, so why would the Government ever wish to do that? If we cannot think of a reason why the Government would want to do that, why are they now taking the power to enable them to do so?”
“I wonder whether the fact that there have been such warnings prompted Ministers into rushing through the measure in this deeply unsatisfactory way, without an opportunity for proper scrutiny, because they thought that if there had been parliamentary scrutiny there would be substantial opposition from the Conservative Benches as well as from the Labour Benches. It is difficult to understand otherwise why it is being done in this way. As we have been reminded, new clause 34 will give the Government the right to inspect the bank account of anyone who claims a state pension, which is all of us. It will give the Government the right to look into the bank account of every single one of us at some point during our lives, without suspecting that we have ever done anything wrong, and without telling us that they are doing it.”
“The proposal in the Bill is for surveillance where there is absolutely no suspicion at all, which is a substantial expansion of the state’s powers to intrude. Annabel Denham, deputy comment editor at The Daily Telegraph warned in The Spectator of such a measure handing “authorities the power to snoop on people’s bank accounts.” I suspect that the views expressed there are more likely to find support on the Conservative Benches than on the Labour Benches, so I am increasingly puzzled by why the Government think this is an appropriate way to act.”
“I chair the Work and Pensions Committee and we have received substantial concerns about this measure, including from Citizens Advice. The Child Poverty Action Group said that “it shouldn’t be that people have fewer rights, including to privacy, than everyone else in the UK simply because they are on benefits.” I think that sums up what a lot of people feel, although it appears to be the position that the Government are now taking. It is surprising that the Conservative party is bringing forward such a major expansion of state powers to pry into the affairs of private citizens, and particularly doing so in such a way that we are not able to scrutinise what it is planning. As we have been reminded, the state has long had powers where there were grounds for suspecting that benefit fraud had been committed.”
“The Minister for Data and Digital Infrastructure told us that the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work will not be not speaking in the debate, so we will not hear what the DWP thinks about these concerns. We have also been told—I had not seen this assurance—that these powers will not be used for a few years. If that is correct, I am completely mystified by why this is being done in such a way. If we had a few years to get these powers in place, why did the Government not wait until there was some appropriate draft legislation that could be properly scrutinised, rather than bringing such measures forward now with zero Commons scrutiny and no opportunity for that to occur? There will no doubt be scrutiny in the other place, but surely a measure of this kind ought to undergo scrutiny in this House.”
“I rise to speak specifically to Government new clause 34 and connected Government amendments which, as we have been reminded, give Ministers power to inspect the bank accounts of anyone claiming a social security benefit. I think it has been confirmed that that includes child benefit and the state pension, as well as universal credit and all the others. Extremely wide powers are being given to Ministers. The Minister told us that the measure is expected to save some half a billion pounds over the next five years. I was pleased that the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work was present at the start of the debate, although he is not now in his place and the Department for Work and Pensions is not hearing the concerns expressed about this measure.”
“Yes, there is a clear and long-established right in law for the DWP to look into people’s bank accounts if there is a suspicion of fraud. This power is giving the Department the ability to look into the bank accounts of people where there is no suspicion at all. All of us at some point in our lives claim a social security benefit, and we are giving the Government the power to look into our bank accounts with this measure.”
“My understanding was that the level of fraud among state pension claims was indeed extremely small. The Minister said earlier that the Government should take powers only where they are absolutely necessary; I think he is now saying that they are not necessary in the case of people claiming a state pension. Is he confident that that bit of this power—to look into the bank account of anybody claiming a state pension—is absolutely necessary?”
“The prospect of the carnage simply resuming at the end of this pause is a really dreadful one. What is the Minister’s assessment of the likelihood that the ceasefire might be made permanent if, over a period of some further days, all the hostages are released?”
“I welcome the Chancellor’s announcement on benefit uprating. It is not, as he claimed, a mark of compassion but it is at least delivering the essential minimum, and I congratulate the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions on achieving that. For the past three years, the household support fund has enabled local councils to provide an important safety net for families facing the greatest hardship. Will there be a household support fund next year?”
“After the misery of the past few years, we must all hope that the plan set out by my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) in answer to the Chancellor’s statement is put in place next year, finally, to reignite much needed growth in the UK economy.”
“There has been a large response to the Government’s announcement, particularly for people out of work on mental health grounds, that the proposed increase in sanctions will make people less likely to get into work. Yesterday, I received a letter with 70 signatures from single parent groups, children’s charities, domestic abuse charities and others, asking that the Select Committee look at the newly increased work obligations imposed on carers of young children. At the moment, carers of young children expect to work 16 hours a week—that is to be nearly doubled to 30 hours a week. The letter challenges those proposals for reasonableness and feasibility. If someone is looking after young children, is it appropriate to demand such large working weeks—far greater than the requirement until now?”
“I hope that the Government will get their act together and ensure that the allocations are announced in good time for local authorities to award providers contracts to deliver the help that is needed. The promised improvements for employment support have been matched by announcements of harsher sanctions. It is clear that sanctions are already high for people claiming universal credit and the other working-age benefits. There is no evidence at all that what is proposed will make people more likely to move into work. Particularly, where people are out of work because of a mental health problem, there is growing evidence that increasing sanctions makes matters worse.”
“The Chancellor has announced an expansion of the restart scheme. We do not know how good that is because, until now, the Department has refused to published the outcome data for restart. I am glad that, in response to the Select Committee, it has said that it will start publishing that data, so we will see whether the scheme is doing a good job. The Committee took evidence this morning on the UK shared prosperity fund, which targets inactivity. One of the problems with the scheme is that the allocations were made in the middle of the year in which the money was supposed to be spent, so it is not surprising that people have not been able to set up the programmes that the funding supports.”
“I welcome the changes announced in Monday’s written statement to improve the support for people out of work on health grounds and with disabilities, including better employment support, plans for a severe disability group and, as the Select Committee recommended, trying out matching ill health benefit claimants with an assessor with experience of their primary health condition. There were ideas for assessing fluctuating health conditions, which I hope will be helpful. I wholeheartedly welcome the expansion that the Chancellor mentioned of integrated placement and support, which was recommended in the Committee’s report on the Government’s plan for jobs. The evidence is clear that it is helpful for people with mild to moderate mental health conditions to get back into work. The increased access to talking therapies is welcome too.”
“I look forward to hearing more about the role in consolidation among smaller defined-benefit pension schemes that the Chancellor mentioned in his statement, and the role he envisages for the outstandingly successful Pension Protection Fund in taking on that task. The Chancellor has talked about a consultation on a “pot for life” approach to pension saving. There are certainly benefits to that approach, and he referred to them, but there are problems as well. He said that there will be a consultation, and I think that is appropriate. In particular, there is the challenge for employers of having to manage lots of different pension funds among their different employees. There will be a significant increase in employer costs of handling that, and I hope that will be properly explored in the consultation.”
“I think the Chancellor reiterated his commitment to a regulated regime for pension superfunds, but there is no sign of legislation. I wonder if anyone can tell us what is proposed. The Select Committee called on the Pensions Regulator to make changes to the new scheme funding regime—the Chief Secretary will be familiar with this from her previous role—to enable open defined-benefit schemes, like the railways pension scheme, to continue to invest in the economy, as the Chancellor rightly wants to happen. The Department has told us that concerns about the wellbeing of open defined-benefit schemes will be addressed, but they have not been yet, and the new code, which is causing a lot of anxiety, is, as the Chief Secretary knows, due to be introduced in April. Any clarification of the intention there will be gratefully received.”
“I am glad that the Chancellor is progressing the aims he set out at the Mansion House to increase pension fund investment in the economy to increase returns to pensioners, as he said, as well as to improve outcomes for investors and unlock capital for our growth businesses. There is a good deal of benefit in that approach, but where is the pensions Bill? I am genuinely mystified by that. In July, when the Chief Secretary was the Pensions Minister, her Department promised a “permanent regulated regime” for pension superfunds “as soon as the parliamentary time allows”. Evidence to our Committee has been clear that in the absence of a permanent statutory framework, superfunds will continue to struggle, undermining the Chancellor’s aims.”
“The consultation on proposed changes to the work capability assessment, which were mentioned by the Chancellor, has been rushed and is inadequate—only eight weeks to consider major changes. Those changes that he said will go ahead will make things difficult for a significant number of people. We are told in a document that I think has been published since the Chancellor sat down that the vast majority of those who have already been assessed as having limited capability for work-related activity will not have to go through another work capability assessment, because that assessment is to be abolished. That, of course, will be of some relief for many, but it remains unclear what will replace it in the long term and when the promised legislation will come forward.”
“I was relieved that the Chancellor said in answer to my question that the household support fund is being maintained. There is a strong case for making it a permanent feature of our system so that local authorities know that they will have funds each year for providing local welfare support. That has been important in the crisis over the last few years. I hope that we can make it longer term and that its rules do not keep changing as they have over the last few years, making it difficult for local authorities to make a good job of administering it. I am glad that it will be there next year and I hope that the rules for it will not change next year as well.”
“I also welcome the rebasing of local housing allowance. By next April, it will have been frozen for four years, when rents have risen sharply. The freeze was causing widespread homelessness among working families who were doing perfectly decent jobs, but could no longer afford the rent. That was then imposing enormous costs on local councils for temporary accommodation, so I am pleased the allowance has been rebased, but I want to call for annual rebasing of the local housing allowance. It should be at the 30th percentile each year. I hope we will be told that it will. I am also glad that the temptation to water down the pension triple lock has been resisted. Last week, the Work and Pensions Committee published a report on the Government’s cost of living support payments in which we identified a number of gaps in payments made.”
“A fortnight ago, the Trussell Trust reported that food bank demand is 16% higher this year than it was last year, with 1.5 million emergency food bank parcels given out in the six months from April to September. How is it that our economy is failing to meet the basic needs of so many in our society? We need the economy to start functioning properly again in a way that it clearly is not and has not been for a number of years. Spurious justifications were proposed for uprating working-age benefits by a lower amount in the autumn statement. Had those been adopted, they would simply have made things even worse, so I welcome the fact that the Treasury resisted those calls. I congratulate the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions on achieving the outcome that we have heard this afternoon.”
“I congratulate the hon. Member for Sevenoaks (Laura Trott) on her appointment as Chief Secretary to the Treasury. I am pleased to see a former Pensions Minister in that role, and I want to make some points about the pensions measures announced in the autumn statement. First, on benefit uprating, I wrote on behalf of the Work and Pensions Committee to the Chancellor a month ago asking for two things: first, for working-age benefits to be uprated in line with the normal formula, which is September’s rate of inflation; and secondly, for local housing allowance to be rebased to the 30th percentile. I am relieved that both those points were in the Chancellor’s statement. The Joseph Rowntree Foundation reported last month that 3.8 million people were experiencing destitution in the UK last year.”
“The Minister referred in his statement to the appalling loss of life among children, and I was pleased that my right hon. Friend the Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) pressed him on that specifically because so many of my constituents are concerned about it. As things stand, will that appalling loss of life not simply carry on? What are the Government doing to bring it to some kind of conclusion?”
“Those Trussell Trust figures published last week made grim reading. Does the Secretary of State recognise that if working-age benefits are uprated by less than September’s rate of inflation in April next year, there will inevitably be another big surge in food bank demand and destitution?”
“I welcome the Minister’s statement and the response from my hon. Friend the Member for Wigan (Lisa Nandy). Will the Minister distance himself from the description of the Palestine marchers as “hate-filled”? The constituents I have been talking to are decent, law-abiding families who have no truck at all with Hamas but who are horrified by the scenes they are seeing, of children killed and maimed, day after day on their screens and are wanting this to stop, as we all must. Will he distance himself from that description?”
“Friend the Member for Ashton-under-Lyne pointed out in her opening speech, there is no employment Bill either. Ever since the Taylor review six years ago, Ministers have promised a Bill to regularise the status of people working in the gig economy, ensuring access to a pension scheme and other rights that Parliament has determined they should have. It was in the Queen’s Speech in 2019, but yesterday it was missing once again. Today the Trussell Trust announced the highest ever level of food bank demand. In the six months to September, more than 1.5 million emergency food parcels were given out—16% more than in the same period last year. Nothing in the King’s Speech addressed that disgrace.”
“The commitment of the Minister for Pensions to having a permanent regulated regime for superfunds as soon as parliamentary time allows was very welcome, but there is not a Bill. The aspiration that the Chancellor set out not very long ago will not be fulfilled by this King’s Speech. In evidence to the Work and Pensions Committee, the chief executive of Clara-Pensions said that in an “ideal world” legislation for superfunds “would be enacted today.” Luke Webster of The Pension SuperFund said that the direction of travel set out in the Department’s response was “very helpful and having that properly defined in regulation would give a lot more confidence to investors and those involved in delivering these proposals.” But there is no Bill. As my right hon.”
“There are press reports that the Government intend to inspect benefits claimants’ bank accounts regularly. That will also require powers, but there is nothing in the King’s Speech that would have that effect either. There is no pensions Bill. The Government consulted on proposals for the consolidation of defined-benefit pension schemes in 2018. Finally, after five years, the Government responded to that consultation in July this year. Consolidation is important for the ambition to secure more pension scheme investment into the UK economy, as set out by the Chancellor in his Mansion House speech. In that speech, he spoke of “introducing a permanent superfund regulatory regime”.”
“The Government’s own Equality and Human Rights Commission has said that “the consultation period is insufficient to enable disabled people and their representative organisations to respond meaningfully.” The Select Committee asked on a unanimous cross-party basis that the consultation be extended so that it can be done properly. Unfortunately, the Secretary of State rejected our request. There will have to be legislation to make whatever changes are decided on, but there is no mention at all in the King’s Speech of a Bill to do it. There is a puzzle here, because the Government have announced that they plan to abolish the work capability assessment in a couple of years anyway. That will require legislation, but there is no Bill to do any of those things in the King’s Speech.”
“It refers to proposals being published to reform welfare and support more people into work, but there is no sign of any Bill. The Government have been undertaking a rushed consultation lasting only eight weeks over major proposals to change the descriptors for the work capability assessment. On the Work and Pensions Committee, we have heard from organisations such as Citizens Advice about the deeply unsatisfactory nature of that rushed exercise, and the consequences for people who are out of work on health grounds.”
“I am glad that the Prime Minister has made a renewed commitment to deliver a two-state solution—two secure states alongside each other in peace—but we have all been saying that for so long and nobody has done anything to make it happen. The Government of Israel have for years been undermining that prospect. One of the criticisms they will have to answer when the fighting stops is why their soldiers were off protecting people living in the still-expanding illegal settlements in the west bank when they should have been protecting Israeli citizens in their own country, who were left undefended in the Hamas attack. The renewed commitment to a two-state solution from the Prime Minister, which I welcome, must be delivered once the fighting stops. Like others, I was struck by omissions from the King’s Speech.”
“They see appalling images, refreshed on their screens hourly, of children being killed and maimed. Some have told me they cannot sleep at the moment because of their distress at what is happening. They want it to stop. Surely we all want it to stop. The Home Secretary may reach a different conclusion from those who have been on the marches, but she is absolutely wrong to impugn their motives so unfairly. Unlike the hon. Member for South Dorset (Richard Drax), I think that the Metropolitan Police Commissioner is absolutely right in his decision about the march this weekend; there is no lawful basis for a ban.”
“It is hard to understand how somebody holding such a crucial role in the government of this country can have no grasp of the harsh realities facing far too many people during the current crisis. In opening the debate on the King’s Speech yesterday, the Prime Minister spent some time, quite rightly, talking about the situation in the middle east. I want to take the Home Secretary to task again for her description of those taking part in the recent Palestine marches as having taken part in a “hate march”. She owes those marchers an apology. No doubt she has not spoken to any of them, but the constituents whom I have spoken to who have been taking part in those marches have no truck at all with the appalling massacre and hostage-taking by Hamas. They are definitely not motivated by hate; they are motivated by distress and compassion.”
“I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in this debate. The Secretary of State’s attack on Sure Start, which was dismantled by the Conservatives, was completely ill-conceived. The one area where I thought she did have a point was in her attack on the state of secondary education when she was a pupil and the Thatcher Government were in charge. Thankfully, the Labour Governments that followed have addressed those very serious problems that she suffered from when she was at school. In opening the debate, my right hon. Friend the Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Angela Rayner) was absolutely right to take the Home Secretary to task for her attack on people forced to sleep on the pavements in tents, and for her description of them having made a “lifestyle choice” to do so.”
“I think I had better wind up, considering the advice you have given us, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Chancellor must at least uprate working-age benefits in line with September’s inflation to avoid making matters even worse.”
“I welcome the Prime Minister’s commitment in his statement to challenging actions that undermine the prospects for Palestinian statehood. What is his assessment of the impact of continued illegal settlement building in the Palestinian territories on the prospects for Palestinian statehood?”
“The Secretary of State has just mentioned the private rental ombudsman, a post that I welcome. Is he considering the case for giving that job to the existing housing ombudsman, who supports the social housing sector at the moment?”
“I agree with the Prime Minister that Israel’s response needs to be constrained by international humanitarian law. What steps will the Government be taking to monitor compliance with those constraints in the coming days, and how many days does he think it will now be before urgently needed humanitarian relief can be taken into Gaza?”
“I am very relieved by today’s statement, hopefully just in the nick of time to avoid really serious damage to UK science. I welcome it, and particularly applaud the contribution made by the Minister for Science, which I know has been very important to achieving this outcome. We are gaining associate membership of Horizon. To what extent does that give us a seat at the table to influence the future shape of the programme?”
“My hon. Friend is making a powerful case. The Work and Pensions Committee highlighted last year the growing number of retired schoolteachers succumbing to mesothelioma because of exposure to asbestos during their working life. At the current rate of progress, it will take 350 years to remove all the asbestos from schools. Does she agree that the Department must get a move on with that?”
“I welcome the new focus on engaging pension funds with productive investment, after many years when regulation has pushed the funds into Government gilts instead, but does the Minister have proposals specifically to secure those investments for UK businesses rather than their going overseas?”
“The Government’s White Paper acknowledged the need to help with the transition from DLA to PIP, but our conclusion was that young people in receipt of DLA should not be required to claim PIP until the age of 18, and where under-18s decide to claim PIP, they should have light-touch, paper-based assessments until the age of 18.”
“Unfortunately, in their response, the Government said no—I am afraid I will be using that word quite a lot in what I have to say today. They said: “all assessment providers strongly refute the suggestion that they undertake” covert assessment, but reports of this happening are much too widespread to be ignored, and the Government should look at that. We are concerned as well about the system for claimants aged 16 to 18. On turning 16 in England and Wales, claimants must move from disability living allowance to PIP through a full-claim process requiring—until recently—a face-to-face assessment, but claimants in Scotland can stay on DLA until the age of 18.”
“Has the Department considered how, if recording by default were introduced, it would be possible to mitigate those risks, which the Minister is right to be concerned about? Has it also looked at what the impact would be on mandatory reconsideration if recording by default were introduced, because I think it would be extremely helpful. If those assessments are not routinely recorded, we will never get the feedback needed to put these serious problems right. I want to pick up the point about covert assessment, which was raised by both the hon. Member for Carshalton and Wallington and my hon. Friend the Member for Warrington North (Charlotte Nichols). This is a serious and real problem. We called in our report for the Government to “urgently investigate the use of covert surveillance by assessors”.”
“Member for Carshalton and Wallington rightly gave the statistics that show that the great majority of appeals against the refusal decisions that come out of assessments are upheld. Surely that shows that something fundamental is wrong. We will get to the bottom of why that is only if assessments are routinely recorded, so that when things go wrong it is possible to look at what actually happened in the assessment and try to learn from the errors to get things right in future. In his recent letter to me, the Minister said: “claimants may need to discuss sensitive and personal information at the assessment and may not want this to be recorded”. Of course, he is quite right about that, which is why we need a proper opt-out for applicants who do not want their assessment to be recorded.”
“Member for Carshalton and Wallington, in respect of the testing of the use of specialist assessors—but the problem is that they are going to take years to implement. We need to take further action, given the gravity of the problems that we have already heard about in the debate. A very important recommendation in our report was that assessments should be recorded by default. They should always be recorded, unless the claimant chooses to opt out of having their assessment recorded. The Government have said no to that recommendation, presumably because it would cost a little more, but I really think that is a mistake. All the assessment providers that are contracted by the Department support the recommended change, as do many of the respondents to our survey. It is the only way to get to the bottom of why things go wrong so often. The hon.”