Sir Mel Stride
MP for Central Devon · Conservative · United Kingdom
“May I welcome the Chancellor to his position and thank him for his kind remarks earlier? May I also wish him every success, because I am afraid that under this Government we need some? He will know that if we are to fix the economy, we have to fix the welfare bill.”
“Given all that is going on, this could be the last time. The legacy of this Chancellor has been the highest taxes on record, a benefits bill spiralling out of control, and unemployment 300,000 higher than it was at the last general election. The right hon.”
“The right hon. Lady cannot bring herself to answer the simple question I asked. I will tell her: she is borrowing one quarter of a trillion pounds more than the plans that she inherited—that is her legacy. We hear that the right hon. Member for Makerfield (Andy Burnham) is considering borrowing even more.”
“May I begin by agreeing with you, Mr Speaker, and saying how disrespectful it is that this U-turn on fuel duty has already been released to the media earlier this week?”
“Today’s announcements will bring little comfort to the hundreds of thousands of people who have lost their jobs, the countless businesses that have folded and the high streets that are now hollowed out.”
“The Conservative party has been campaigning for a fuel duty freeze for months. The Chancellor repeatedly rejected those calls, creating unnecessary uncertainty for motorists and businesses. Why did it take her so long to realise that putting up fuel duty during an energy crisis is a bad idea?”
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“I cannot comment on the specific case that the hon. Gentleman has put forward, other than to say that what he has described is of concern to me and I will want us to look into that extremely carefully. I will be happy to make sure that he has the appropriate time with the appropriate Minister—I think the Minister for Employment—to look into those matters.”
“I completely agree with the hon. Gentleman that one child in destitution is one too many. One person in poverty is one too many. One person who is unemployed and badly wants a job to support their family is one too many. The question we have to ask is how best to go about improving those situations. I say it is through encouraging people into work and through those cost of living transfer payments for those targeted through universal credit, which his party originally opposed, so that we can help those who are most vulnerable and most in need.”
“The hon. Gentleman raises mortgage payments in particular; we have extended the scope of the support for mortgage interest arrangements, particularly for those who have not long been on universal credit. I cannot comment on what may or may not be in the autumn statement, but I can assure him that the kind of issues he has raised are always at the centre of our thinking.”
“Given that remembrance is still fresh in all our minds, I take the opportunity to pay tribute to the armed forces champions who work across our jobcentre network looking after armed forces personnel and their families. They do a fantastic job, and we should be very proud of them. These are financially challenging times, but the DWP is up to that challenge, hence all the cost of living payments that we have been hearing about during questions. Inflation is coming down and real wages are beginning to move up. We continue to take a balanced and fair approach to encouraging employment, which has resulted in economic inactivity falling by about 300,000 since its peak, and almost three quarters of a million since 2010.”
“I certainly agree with the hon. Gentleman that poverty is not a lifestyle choice. We have gone through various statistics during questions, with 1.7 million fewer people in absolute poverty since 2010, 200,000 fewer pensioners in poverty since 2010 and 400,000 fewer children in poverty since 2010. We have also gone through the cost of living payments, the increases to the national living wage and all the other support that the Government are providing.”
“The reason for that—I am feeling rather less generous—is that we have seen Labour’s plans in the past, and no Labour Government have ever left office with unemployment anything other than higher than when they came to office. Under the last Labour Government, we saw 1.4 million people parked on long-term benefits for over a decade, with many of them exactly as the hon. Lady described: long-term sick and disabled. Under this Government, we have near-record low unemployment, and we have 4 million more people on payroll employment than we had in 2010.”
“Very briefly, I have set out our employment record, which we are proud of. In his last Budget, the Chancellor set aside £2 billion to fund measures to tackle long-term sickness and disability. That includes a consultation on occupational health, the roll-out of universal support and Work Well, about which the hon. Lady will hear more presently.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for his typically astute question and for his advice in this area over a number of months. We have gone out to consultation on the work capability assessment. We have not come to our conclusions on how to move forward, but right at the centre of that will be a strong belief that if people can work, with our support and encouragement, that is the best of all outcomes.”
“I will certainly look into the letter to which the hon. Gentleman refers, but I assure him that LHA and other housing matters are under constant review, and form part of the discussions that my Department has with the Treasury from time to time.”
“The right hon. Gentleman has raised an important point. I take the uprating process extremely seriously, and, as he will know, I look at a number of factors, including the effects on poverty. However, as he will also understand, I am not able to comment on a parliamentary process that has not yet been concluded.”
“Some £2 billion of extra funding is already going into mental healthcare compared with four years ago, with a 20% increase in staffing since 2010. It does not stop there: we will also be bringing forward mental health hospitals and 100 specialist ambulances.”
“They always say that former smokers have a passionate desire to stop other people smoking, and she certainly demonstrated that. We know that one in four cancers is caused by smoking. [Official Report, 20 November 2023, Vol. 741, c. 2MC.] As a father of three young daughters, vaping is of great concern to me personally, and I was pleased to see the reference in the King’s Speech to getting on top of those kinds of products and the way in which they are retailed. The hon. Lady also mentioned mental health, as did many of this afternoon’s speakers. We have said that we will come forward with a mental health Bill if parliamentary time allows, and of course that does not mean we have not already done a very great deal in exactly that space, or will not do a great deal further.”
“He referred to the fact that it was in his constituency that Winston Churchill first uttered the immortal words, “Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.” Of course, Churchill then repeated that in this Chamber, but not with the same eloquence as my hon. Friend, and he certainly did not manage to squeeze in a tribute to the Middlesex Arms, my hon. Friend’s local pub, where I am sure a free beer awaits him—that is probably where he is at this very moment. Now that I too, in addition to him, have mentioned his local pub, I hope that a second pint awaits him. There are certain things that the shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for Leicester West (Liz Kendall), and I can agree on, and smoking is one of them. I was interested to learn that she is a former smoker.”
“May I begin by welcoming the new Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, my hon. Friend the Member for Louth and Horncastle (Victoria Atkins), to her place? This has been a good and full debate. It has, in large part, been fairly well-informed, although I thought the quality of the offerings from behind me was a little ahead of that from in front. None the less, it has been a good and passionate debate. No effort today was in any way better than that of my hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge and South Ruislip (Steve Tuckwell), who gave us a virtuoso example of a maiden speech.”
“Economic inactivity, which she raised, is almost 300,000 lower than it was at its peak during the pandemic: it is below the average level of the OECD and the average level across the European Union. Unemployment is at a near-historic low, the number of those in payroll employment is at a near-historic high, and youth unemployment is down 44% on 2010. What happened under the Labour party? As Opposition Members know, it went up by almost exactly the same amount—another 44%. Labour is the party of unemployment; it has never left office with unemployment anything other than higher than when it came in. Under Labour’s stewardship, 1.4 million people were languishing on long-term benefits for over a decade, and that is a disgrace.”
“Frankly, if the Opposition had done more with their trade union paymasters to encourage them to go back to work, we would have had smaller backlogs than we do at the moment. We have already largely eradicated the 18-month waits; the two-year waits have already been abolished; and we are rolling out all sorts of approaches to make sure we have more provision going forward, including 140 new surgical hubs. When Labour tells us about their plans, we need only to look at Wales, where we can see the results of Labour’s stewardship of the health service: on average, waiting times in Wales are five weeks longer than in England. The hon. Member for Leicester West spent some time discussing employment, an area in which we have a first-class record.”
“I have just set out for the right hon. Gentleman two very significant actions that this Government have taken: £2 billion of additional funding compared with just four years ago, and a staff increase of some 20% since 2010. I have to pick up on the non-doms point, because we hear it so often from the Opposition. Those poor old non-doms are going to be paying for the entire British economy over and over again. They pay UK taxes on their UK income, and it is just not realistic to expect to be gaining more tax in the longer term as a result of taxing them. We have heard much about waits for NHS services. We have been working very hard on that issue, and it has to be recognised that we have had a pandemic, as well as a considerable amount of industrial action.”
“Ordered, That the debate be now adjourned.— (Mr Mohindra.) Debate to be resumed tomorrow.”
“The next generation of welfare reforms that I am bringing forward are part of this Government’s mission to deliver a better future for everyone across the country. It is a future that brings together employment support and healthcare to help disabled people and those with health conditions to realise their full potential. It is a future in which, thanks to the decisions we are now taking, the NHS can deliver better care in a changing world. It is a future that sees the first smoke-free generation become a reality, a future in which the most vulnerable in society continue to be the Government’s priority and are protected, and a future where work grows our economy, but perhaps more importantly still, changes lives, with thousands more people enjoying all the financial, social and health benefits that employment brings.”
“The universal support we are rolling out is there to place people into work and give them a whole year’s worth of support, so we can make sure that those people stay in work. She will be aware of the pilots that we are now rolling out under the Work Well banner, which are there to bring people together with work. We believe that is one of the answers to mental health issues alongside medical support. Of course, we have just concluded our work capability assessment consultation, in which we are looking at how we can further help those people who can and want to work to go into employment, because we believe that that, ultimately, is in the best interests not just of the economy and of society, but very much of those people themselves. This Government are not afraid to take long-term decisions in the national interest.”
“I do not, inasmuch as I recognise that long-term sick and disability has been on a rising trend for at least five years now. The hon. Lady knows that, but that is not the point that I was making; neither was it the point that she was making when she referred to the figures on economic inactivity. That brings me to what this Government are doing. In the previous Budget, the Chancellor set forth plans for £2 billion to go towards resolving issues around long-term sickness and disability. We have consulted on occupational health across businesses to get upstream of this issue. The hon. Lady will know of our White Paper and the structural reforms that will make sure that, for the 2.5 million people on long-term sickness and disability benefits, we always focus on what those people can do, not on what they cannot do.”
“It is time to share the opportunities of work far more fairly. It is time for work to be truly available to all those who can benefit from it. It is time to get Britain working. I commend this statement to the House.”
“These proposals will help people to move into, or closer to, the labour market and fulfil their potential. We are consulting over the next eight weeks to seek the views of disabled people, employers, charities and others on our proposed changes. If the proposals were taken forward following consultation, the earliest we could implement any change would be from 2025, given the need to make changes to regulations and to ensure appropriate training for health assessors. These plans are part of our wider approach to ensuring that we have a welfare system that encourages and supports people into work, while providing a vital safety net for those who need it most. A welfare system that focuses on what people can do, not on what they cannot do, and that reflects the modern changes to the world of work.”
“We are also consulting on changes to the provision for claimants who would otherwise be capable of work preparation activity but are excluded from work preparation requirements on the basis of substantial risk, most commonly on mental health grounds. The original intention for substantial risk was for it to be advised only in exceptional circumstances. It was intended to provide a safety net for the most vulnerable, but the application of risk has gone beyond the original intent. We are therefore consulting on how we might change how substantial risk applies, so that people can access the support they need to move closer to work and a more fulfilling life. We are also considering the tailored and appropriate support that will be needed for this group, safely helping them move closer to work.”
“We are consulting on whether changes should be made to four of the activities and descriptors that determine whether someone can work, or prepare to work, to reflect changes in working practices and better employment support. This includes looking at changing, removing or reducing the points for descriptors relating to mobilising, continence, social engagement and getting about. We are not consulting on changes to the remaining descriptors, which will remain unaltered. These changes will not affect people who are nearing the end of life or receiving cancer treatment, nor will they affect the majority of activities for those with severe disablement, such as if a person has severe learning disabilities or is unable to transfer from one seat to another.”
“The activities and descriptors within the work capability assessment, which help to decide whether people have any work preparation requirements to improve their chances of getting work, have not been comprehensively reviewed since 2011, so it is right that we look afresh at how we can update them given the huge changes we have seen in the world of work. For instance, the work capability assessment does not reflect how someone with a disability or health condition might be able to work from home, yet many disabled people do just that. Our plans include taking account of the fact that people with mobility problems, or who suffer anxiety within the workplace, have better access to employment opportunities due to the rise in flexible working and homeworking.”
“This has opened up more opportunities for disabled people and those with health conditions to start, stay and succeed in work. The rise in flexible working and homeworking has brought new opportunities for disabled people to manage their conditions in a more familiar and accessible environment. More widely, there have been improvements in the approach many employers take to workplace accessibility and reasonable adjustments for staff. And a better understanding of mental health conditions and neurodiversity has helped employers to identify opportunities to adapt job roles and the way disabled people and people with health conditions work. The consultation I am publishing is about updating the work capability assessment so that it keeps up with the way people work today.”
“So before the White Paper comes in, I want to make sure that the work capability assessment—the way we assess how someone’s health limits their ability to work, and therefore the support they need—is delivering the right outcomes and supporting those most in need. Today my Department is launching a consultation on measures to ensure that those who can work are given the right support and opportunities to move off benefits and towards the job market. As I have said, we know that many people who are on out-of-work benefits due to a health condition want to work and, assisted by modern working practices, could do so while managing their condition effectively. We have seen a huge shift in the world of work over the last few years, a huge change that has accelerated since the pandemic.”
“We are modernising mental health services in England, providing wellness and clinical apps, piloting cutting-edge digital therapies and digitising the NHS talking therapies programme. We have also published fundamental reforms to the health and disability benefits system through our health and disability White Paper. That will see the end of the work capability assessment and a new personalised tailored approach to employment support to help everyone to reach their full potential. The scale of our reforms means that it will take time to implement them, but there are changes we can make more quickly that will also make a difference.”
“I want to ensure that everybody who can do so benefits from all the opportunities that work brings—not just the financial security, but all the physical and mental health benefits too. No one who can work should be left behind. That is why, earlier this year, we announced an extra £2 billion-worth of investment to help disabled people and those with health conditions to move into work. That includes bringing in our new universal support employment programme, which will assist disabled people and those with health conditions to connect with vacancies and provide support and training to help them to start and stay in a role. Through our individual placement and support in primary care programme, we are investing £58 million to help more than 25,000 people to start and stay in work.”
“Yet we know that one in five people on incapacity benefits who are currently not expected to prepare for work want to work in the future if the right job and support were available, and the proportion of people going through a work capability assessment who are being given the highest level of award and deemed to have no work-related requirements at all has risen from 21% in 2011 to 65% last year. This situation is excluding significant numbers of people from receiving employment support to help them to move closer to work opportunities. It is holding back the labour market and the economy, but perhaps most important of all, it is holding back human potential.”
“With your permission, Madam Deputy Speaker, I will make a statement on our proposed changes to the work capability assessment, which aim to ensure that no one who can work is permanently written out of this country’s strong labour market story. It is a story that has seen nearly 4 million more people in work compared with 2010, 2 million more disabled people in work than in 2013 and record numbers of people on payrolls. But although the overall number of people who are economically inactive has fallen strongly from its pandemic peak, there remain over 2.5 million people who are inactive because of long-term sickness and disability.”
“I invite her to look closely at the announcements that were made—the £2 billion-worth of support at the last fiscal statement, including our White Paper reforms in exactly the area where she is seeking progress; the universal support; and the WorkWell programme. She mentioned working with local providers, and there is a huge drive on that. As for mental health, we are consulting on occupational health across businesses to make sure that we get in right at the start where people may otherwise end up on a long-term health journey. We are also working closely with the NHS on getting employment advisers involved, for example, in talking therapies, which we know are so effective in addressing mental health concerns.”
“I thank the hon. Lady for her remarks. It is gratifying that she agrees with much of the premise I set out. She recognises the importance of work and that 2.5 million people, or thereabouts, are on long-term sick and disability benefits—we are all equally concerned that the number is growing. She also argues that the work capability assessment, in its current form, is not fit for its required purpose, which is exactly why we are coming forward with these reforms. She refers to the PIP assessment requirements, which are not relevant to the work capability assessments that we are discussing and that are subject to the current consultation. We clearly have a plan. The hon. Lady has been in her position for a very short period, and I respect and understand that.”
“I share my right hon. Friend’s keenness to see these proposals—whatever may or may not emerge—come forward as soon as possible. They will require a lot of work on IT systems and changes to systems. The providers will have to incorporate the changes that may or not come forward as a result of this consultation. Let me reassure him that, given the benefits there will be to many people who will otherwise not benefit from work, I am as anxious as he is to make sure that we move forward at speed.”
“It is a huge commitment on the part of this Government, and I can inform him that the latest figure I have is that 88% of those applications are being processed within 10 days.”
“There are those whose health and disability situation is such that I passionately recognise that they should not be expected to undergo any work to look for work or to carry out work itself. As a compassionate society, we should be there to support those people, and we will continue to do so. But where somebody can work, there is a contract between the state and the individual: if people are to be supported and they can work, it is right that they should be expected to do so. In those circumstances, the conditionality should apply. The hon. Gentleman made specific reference to Access to Work. That programme provides up to about £65,000 for each individual involved to bring forward adaptations to the workplace to accommodate that individual into employment.”
“I respect the hon. Gentleman; having appeared before the Select Committee, I know how seriously he takes the matters that he has raised. However, I cannot accept being described as bearing down on those who are “on the make and on the take”. If he can find any example of myself or my Ministers making those assertions, I would like to see it. In the absence of that, I hope that he will be big enough to withdraw those comments. The hon. Gentleman does not like the assessments, but we hear nothing about alternatives or what the SNP’s plan is to replace assessments. If there are inherent problems with assessments, presumably the logic is that he is not going to assess anybody at all. So we do not know what his plan is. He refers to conditionality, so let me make a point about that.”
“I dealt in my statement with my hon. Friend’s question about why we are doing this, given that we will be getting rid of the WCA in due course: I said that there is no reason why we cannot bring forward these benefits earlier, even though we are going to be removing the WCA altogether. As for the numbers impacted, we know that about one in five people on those benefits do want to work, given the right support. Until the consultation is concluded and we know the exact nature of the policy changes that we may or may not be making at that point, we will not be able to assess the numbers exactly.”
“I listen to the hon. Lady’s remarks with great respect; having appeared before her at the Select Committee, I know how serious she is about the issues she raises and how strongly she promotes her ideas and concerns. She mentioned the lack of support available for the people in the situation we are describing, which is precisely why I want to start providing more support to them by making these reforms. Let me make an important point in an area where I am in agreement with her: we need to do this in the right way. We need to listen carefully to those who will be affected by any changes we may bring forward, which is why we have a full eight-week consultations. My Ministers and I will be engaging closely with the various stakeholders, disabled people and so on. We will of course welcome her comments as part of that process.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for that typically sensible and astute intervention. May I personally thank him for the advice and input he has given over the preceding months, particularly in this area? He is right that we should be proud of our record of assisting disabled people into work—2 million more in work since 2013. Equally, he is right about addressing the hundreds of thousands of people with these kinds of difficulties and challenges who are leaving businesses and the workforce every year. I recognise that it is essential to get help to those people as early as possible, before they progress too far along that health journey. That is why we are already consulting on occupational health, so that we can make sure that is rolled out more effectively across large and medium-sized businesses.”
“Nothing in the consultation excludes bringing forward exactly the point that the hon. Lady makes. I hope she will do just that, and encourage others to do so as well.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for all the passion and intelligence he brings to these issues. I can confirm that our door will be open to Seetec Pluss. In fact, I will go further and make sure that our officials reach out to my hon. Friend to ensure that that happens.”
“That sentiment of taking on the employers is probably not conducive to having an economy that is generating the jobs that have occurred under this Government. As to the descriptors—indeed, the activities—that the hon. Gentleman refers to, there is a plethora of information out there about exactly what those mean. If he has trouble finding that, I would be very happy to have my Department point him in the right direction.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for the advice and support he has given me when we have discussed these issues over the last few months. I know he is extremely knowledgeable in this area. He is absolutely right that we do not want people to be trapped, to use that expression, on benefits. We want to help people to move into the labour market and work. That is better for the economy and the labour market, but most importantly it is better for the physical and mental health of the individual concerned, as shown by all the evidence.”
“I can give the hon. Lady exactly that assurance when it comes to ME. I point her to the White Paper that we published in March, in which we made a clear commitment on fluctuating conditions and said that we would test and trial around those conditions, as part of the White Paper process.”
“It is correct that we have gone from 21% to 65% in that short space of time and I recognise that that statistic is simply unacceptable. We know that one in five people in that group wants to work, given the right support, and we need to do something about that. Quite rightly, my hon. Friend also raises the fundamental change in the way that work is conducted in the modern world. The last time the work capability assessment was reviewed for reform was 10 years ago. That is inadequate and it is now time to make appropriate changes.”
“It is a fact that people are better off, on average, being in work than being on benefits. I pay tribute to my predecessor who introduced universal credit, which makes that the case. Bringing people into work who would not otherwise be in work means that they will, on average, be better off. This Government have increased the national living wage by over 9%—it has been £10.42 since April—and have introduced cost of living support for 8 million low-income households, 6 million disabled people, pensioners and so on. In response to the hon. Gentleman, the proposed changes are another step in exactly the right direction.”
“My hon. Friend has used exactly the right word: it is imperative that we get those people into the world of work. If somebody is on benefits—and we know that one in five of those people would, with the right support, like to get into work—it is our duty as a Government and as a society to do whatever we can to support them.”
“Not at all, Madam Deputy Speaker. I have set out very clearly the principled reason why we are bringing forward these measures. As the hon. Gentleman will know, when it comes to more disabled people moving into the workforce, we set a target for the 10-year period from 2017 to see a million more disabled people in employment. We broke that target in half that time, reaching 1.3 million in addition after just five years.”