Sir Mel Stride
MP for Central Devon · Conservative · United Kingdom
“May I welcome the Chancellor to his position and thank him for his kind remarks earlier? May I also wish him every success, because I am afraid that under this Government we need some? He will know that if we are to fix the economy, we have to fix the welfare bill.”
“Given all that is going on, this could be the last time. The legacy of this Chancellor has been the highest taxes on record, a benefits bill spiralling out of control, and unemployment 300,000 higher than it was at the last general election. The right hon.”
“The right hon. Lady cannot bring herself to answer the simple question I asked. I will tell her: she is borrowing one quarter of a trillion pounds more than the plans that she inherited—that is her legacy. We hear that the right hon. Member for Makerfield (Andy Burnham) is considering borrowing even more.”
“May I begin by agreeing with you, Mr Speaker, and saying how disrespectful it is that this U-turn on fuel duty has already been released to the media earlier this week?”
“Today’s announcements will bring little comfort to the hundreds of thousands of people who have lost their jobs, the countless businesses that have folded and the high streets that are now hollowed out.”
“The Conservative party has been campaigning for a fuel duty freeze for months. The Chancellor repeatedly rejected those calls, creating unnecessary uncertainty for motorists and businesses. Why did it take her so long to realise that putting up fuel duty during an energy crisis is a bad idea?”
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“The Government are committed to delivering a deal that works for the whole of the United Kingdom—for every country and region within it, including Scotland—and Treasury Ministers of course have regular discussions with the Secretary of State for Scotland on just these matters.”
“The best deal for the country, and indeed for Scotland, is the one that the Prime Minister has brought forward, and which she is now looking at with our European partners in Brussels: one that sees a free trade area right at the heart of our arrangements; that has no tariffs between ourselves and the EU27; that gives us control of our borders; that makes sure we put an end to sending vast sums of money to the European Union; that gives us control of our laws; and that enables us to conduct our own international trade affairs.”
“My hon. Friend is entirely right. That is why in the last Budget, Scotland benefited from £950 million in additional Barnett funding, and why we are investing £1 billion in up to six new city deals, including in the borderlands area—some of those deals have been concluded and some are under discussion.”
“These are estimates, of course, not forecasts. I can tell the hon. Gentleman that there would be no impact on output in Scotland in the long term—15 years from the end of the implementation period—if we compare the White Paper deal with the situation as it stands today.”
“My hon. Friend is entirely right. The Scottish National party would like the country to stay in the EU, which would, for example, severely disadvantage the Scottish fishing industry. We have negotiated a very advantageous situation in terms of having control of our fishing as an independent coastal state. The point my hon. Friend makes is also entirely right: if Scotland were to be independent there would be frictions at the border between ourselves and Scotland, which would not assist with trade.”
“The cross-government departmental analysis shows clearly that the outcome of no deal would see the United Kingdom disadvantaged by 8% of GDP compared with the deal negotiated at the moment in the withdrawal agreement. The best option identified in the analysis is the current deal.”
“The hon. Lady suggests that the analysis does not model the White Paper deal. It does exactly that, but it does it in terms of the future relationship and the political declaration which, as she will know, is a range of potential outcomes—so that is entirely what the analysis does. As I say, what it shows is that the deal we have negotiated with the European Union is the best deal available for the things that she and I hold dear: growth across our economy, growth in Scotland, jobs in Scotland and even lower unemployment in Scotland. The Scottish National party should now row in behind this deal to make sure that we do the best for the whole of the United Kingdom.”
“I can enlighten the hon. Gentleman, although it is contained in the documentation that has come out of the negotiations. There will be an enhanced equivalence regime in respect of financial services. It is there in black and white. I am very happy to speak to him after questions and take him through the relevant paragraphs.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for that very important question. The Government recognise that the current international tax regime is not fit for purpose when it comes to taxing certain types of digital platform-based businesses—the types to which my hon. Friend has referred—and we are therefore working with the OECD and the European Union to arrive at a multilateral solution to ensure that the right tax is paid. However, we have made it clear, and the Chancellor made it clear in the Budget, that in the event that we do not secure a multilateral agreement, we will move ahead unilaterally by 2020 to ensure that those businesses pay a fair share of tax.”
“I entirely agree with my right hon. Friend about the importance of low taxes. Under this Government, corporation tax has been reduced from 28% to 19% and will be further reduced to 17%; and through the increase in the personal allowance that was announced in the Budget, we have taken about 4 million of the lowest-paid out of tax altogether. As for my right hon. Friend’s specific point about aligning national insurance and income tax, that is a very complex thing to do. There would be a considerable number of losers, as well as some gainers. However, the Office of Tax Simplification has looked into it in the past, and we will keep it under review.”
“I thank my hon. Friend for his question, but I have to fundamentally disagree with him. The arrangements entered into around disguised remuneration, for which the loan charge is being applied, were always defective at the time they were being used. They have been taken through the courts many times over many years by HMRC and been found to be defective. They also went through, in a particular case, the Supreme Court—the highest court in the land—and the scheme was found to be defective. So this is not a retrospective measure, but it is a question of tax fairness, and of course those who are involved can come forward and have discussions with HMRC, who, where there are difficulties around payment, will be sympathetic and enter into time-to-pay arrangements to make sure those people are protected as well as paying the right tax.”
“This treatment will apply from the date of election until the end of that year and for the following two full calendar years, allowing businesses the scope to choose the best option for their circumstances. The changes to the VAT digital services rules are welcomed by businesses and were lobbied for by the UK. The order is expected to have a positive impact on approximately 1,100 businesses—around 50% of UK businesses using MOSS—that fall below the threshold. HMRC has produced guidance updates to reflect the introduction of the proposed changes, which will take effect from 1 January 2019 and which the UK has pressed for at EU level. The order updates UK law in line with the European VAT directive and simplifies the VAT rules for the trade of digital services for our smallest businesses. I commend it to the Committee.”
“UK businesses that have a turnover below the UK VAT registration threshold and that make digital sales to private EU customers below the cross-border sales threshold will not have to register for VAT unless they choose to do so. This will be of great benefit to small businesses, reducing their running costs as well as making them more competitive since they do not have to comply with an additional obligation. The order will allow UK businesses under the new threshold to choose to keep the place of supply in the EU member states in which their customers are based and account for VAT using the MOSS system or register in the relevant member states. To do so, they must notify HMRC.”
“UK businesses trading below the VAT registration threshold therefore needed to register for VAT in the member states in which they made supplies, register for VAT in order to join the VAT MOSS scheme, or decide not to supply to private EU consumers. In December 2017, vital easements to these rules that the UK had pushed for were agreed to by EU Finance Ministers. The order implements one such change, further simplifying VAT accounting and easing the administrative burden on small traders. The UK remains committed to simplifying the tax system to support small businesses. UK businesses that sell digital services to EU customers below a turnover value of £8,818 in the current and preceding calendar year can treat the UK as the place of supply for those sales, which will therefore be subject to UK VAT rules.”
“In January 2015, suppliers of digital services to EU consumers were made liable to account for VAT in the member states in which their customers are located, not those in which the supplier is based. Traders of digital services therefore needed to register in each member state in which their customers were located, irrespective of the value of their sales. To mitigate the administrative impact of those changes, the VAT mini one-stop shop—MOSS—accounting simplification scheme was introduced, which made it possible for businesses to register in one member state and account via that single registration for VAT due throughout the EU.”
“I beg to move, That the Committee has considered the Value Added Tax (Place of Supply of Services) (Supplies of Electronic, Telecommunication and Broadcasting Services) Order 2018 (S.I., 2018, No. 1194). It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship once again, Mr Hosie. The order implements changes to article 58 of the EU VAT directive by amending the UK’s VAT place of supply rules. It introduces an annual £8,818 threshold below which, where a UK business makes cross-border supplies of certain digital services to private EU consumers, the deemed place of supply will be the United Kingdom. It may be helpful if I set out the background to the order.”
“I am of course very happy to look at that and see what information I can establish. On the specific issue of the potential uprating of the threshold, neither I nor my officials are aware of any proposed uprating, but if that is the case I will certainly let the hon. Lady know. The hon. Lady and the hon. Member for Lanark and Hamilton East both made various points about Brexit and timetables and asked what will happen in the various deal and no-deal circumstances. We are confident that there will be a deal and that we will therefore move into the implementation period from the end of March until the end of 2020. Under those circumstances, the draft order will have relevance and the arrangements it makes will benefit small businesses up and down the United Kingdom. On that basis, I commend the order to the Committee.”
“We see the order as a relieving measure and estimate that the 1,100 businesses that are likely to benefit from the change will save, on average, about £260 per year, largely on their own administration costs. She also asked specifically about businesses that would not have to register for the VAT MOSS approach but that might be below the £85,000 VAT registration threshold. I do not have a specific figure but I am happy to look into that further and write to her. The hon. Lady also asked about the net effect of these changes for the United Kingdom and the EU27 member states. Again, I do not have that to hand. Unless it comes to me very quickly— [Interruption.] It has not. How disappointing it is to get a note that does not have what you would like in it, but there you go.”
“I thank both hon. Ladies for their contributions and questions, which I will endeavour to address as comprehensively as I can. On VAT MOSS and whether there have been discussions with online platforms—I think that was expression used by the hon. Member for West Ham—most of the businesses to which the statutory instrument will be relevant will be, by definition, fairly small. They tend to trade more directly than through online platforms. I assure the hon. Lady that there was a four-week consultation on the statutory instrument, and there was only one response, which related to a typo in the draft legislation. The hon. Member for West Ham asked perfectly reasonably about the cost of dealing with VAT.”
“Maybe. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Howarth. I will turn briefly to points raised by the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde.”
“I therefore ask that the amendment be withdrawn and commend the clause to the Committee.”
“Secondly, we believe that the additional threshold should be available only when the family home passes directly from an individual to their direct descendant on death. The changes will correct an anomaly in the legislation whereby the threshold could be available for a family home passed into a trust, where the direct descendants do not inherit the property. While the changes are important for revenue protection, we expect them to affect very few estates. There has been one amendment proposed to this clause, which proposes reviewing and laying a report on the revenue effects of the changes. Amendment 122, however, is not necessary. The clause corrects the working of the residence nil-rate band and has no impact on wider inheritance tax policy. Consequently, there will be no revenue effects as a result of the clause.”
“The Government announced those reforms in 2015 to ensure there would be an inheritance tax threshold of up to £1 million for married couples and civil partners by the end of this Parliament. That was a manifesto commitment, which I am pleased we have delivered, but it is right that we make changes to the legislation where necessary to ensure that the policy works as intended. The changes made by clause 65 will correct two areas of the residence nil-rate band. First, the downsizing provisions were introduced to ensure that people would not lose access to this additional nil-rate band by, for example, moving house to meet their long-term care needs. However, the wording in the current legislation means that these provisions could apply in an upsizing scenario. That was never the intention and the changes will correct it.”
“The Government are introducing these changes to clarify the working of the downsizing rules, and to provide certainty about when a person is treated as inheriting property. The residence nil-rate band reduces the burden of inheritance tax for families by making it easier to pass on the family home to children or grandchildren, and the band is an additional threshold available when a residence is being passed to a direct descendant. As the hon. Gentleman set out, the value in 2018-19 is £125,000. That will rise to £175,000 by 2020-21. Any unused threshold can be transferred to a surviving spouse or civil partner. The unused threshold is also available when a person has downsized to a less valuable property and passes on the proceeds from selling their home, instead of the property itself, to their children or grandchildren.”
“In the spring of next year, it will also report on the policy area itself, and we will look with great interest at the report when it comes out. [ Interruption. ] May I correct something I have just said? Perhaps I am bad at reading handwriting here. The 70% relates to those with an estate of over £1 million, rather than £2 million. The hon. Gentleman raises perfectly legitimate questions that we should be asking about the reliefs associated with agricultural land and woodlands, and the different approaches that those who can afford advisers and so on may seek to take to lower their inheritance tax. All those things will make for interesting debate and consideration when the OTS reports back in spring.”
“Gentleman suggests, it brings in about £5 billion a year and, in terms of its fairness across the range of different wealth levels, I can inform him that 70% of inheritance tax is raised from those with estates valued at over £2 million, so the vast bulk of it comes from those who are significantly wealthy. The hon. Gentleman quite rightly raises the general question of keeping taxes under review and looking at inheritance tax. He gave various examples of the work of others in that respect and made various suggestions. He will be aware that the Office of Tax Simplification is reviewing inheritance tax, and has already reported on the administration and guidance relating to it, with which there are various issues.”
“As my hon. Friend pointed out in his remarks on earlier clauses, we have frozen fuel duty for nine successive years—but perhaps we had better get back to the matter in hand, revolutions and fuel not featuring particularly in clause 65. First, the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde feels that this tax is seen as one of the least fair. It is certainly true that it is one of the least popular taxes; I would accept that. However, it only typically applies to about 4% or 5% of estates, although the public generally assume that it applies much more widely. That, of course, is a consequence of the policies we brought in to extend the thresholds, which we have been discussing. As the hon.”
“The independent Office for Budget Responsibility certifies the Exchequer impact of all the measures in the Bill, set out in table 2.1 and table 2.2 of Budget 2018. When they are announced, the OBR will also provide its independent view of the impact of these policies on business investment in its “Economic and fiscal outlook” report, in the box titled “The economic effects of policy measures”. Finally, every year HMRC will publish updated statistics breaking down corporation tax paid and capital allowances claimed. For those reasons, I urge the Committee to reject the amendment and new clauses, and I commend the clause to the Committee.”
“The Government have already laid before Parliament a written ministerial statement under the title “Exiting the European Union: publications”, representing cross-Whitehall economic analysis on the long-term impacts of an EU exit on the UK economy, its sectors, nations and regions and the public finances. The document is available on gov.uk and from the Printed Paper Office. Committee members will be aware that I also answered an urgent question at length on this very matter. New clause 5 is intended to commit the Government to assess the aggregate effects of the changes to corporation tax and capital allowances made under the Bill. However, that information is already largely set out in the public domain.”
“When available, HMRC will publish updated statistics on capital allowances claimed, split by asset type and by industry. Data on capital allowances claimed are based on where companies are registered rather than where the activity itself takes place. Requiring businesses to provide the more detailed information that this report would require about the precise location of their expenditure would represent a significant new administrative burden. On the impact of the policies in different EU exit scenarios, the capital allowances package in the Bill is intended to boost business investment in all scenarios.”
“The Government’s view is that this measure is not best supported by consultation, which would delay this change. In any case, it restores the interpretation of the law that HMRC and taxpayers commonly understood before the recent tribunal case. New clause 2 aims to commit the Government to report on the impact of the capital allowances changes in the Bill, including under a number of different EU withdrawal scenarios, as well as on the impact on different parts of the United Kingdom. The Office for Budget Responsibility has provided its independent view of the impact of these policies, in particular on business investment, in its “Economic and fiscal outlook” report, in the box titled “The economic effects of policy measures”.”
“However, as this does nothing more than restore the commonly held interpretation of the law, we do not consider it to disadvantage any company that has already incurred expenditure. If we did not make this amendment, there is a strong probability that some businesses might make spurious or windfall claims, as there is no time limit for making a capital allowances claim. Amendment 79 seeks a legislative commitment by the Government to report on any consultations that are undertaken on this measure. However, the measure addresses a potential source of ambiguity in the capital allowances legislation and protects revenue that we need for our vital public services. That needs to be done quickly to maintain a level playing field and to provide certainty for businesses incurring expenditure in this area.”
“Taxpayers who alter land for the purpose of installing a structure or building should claim this new allowance—we covered it when debating clause 29—and should not claim the plant and machinery allowance. As I have said, the clause clarifies that expenditure on land alterations cannot qualify for capital allowances unless it relates to the installation of qualifying plant and machinery. No expenditure on structures or buildings, as defined in sections 21 and 22 of the Capital Allowances Act 2001, will be counted as plant. This will apply to all capital allowance claims made from 29 October 2018 onwards, but not to claims already in the system—to do otherwise would be unfair.”
“To answer one of the specific points raised by the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde, doubt has been cast on that principle by a recent tribunal decision, which HMRC is appealing against. The purpose of the clause is to ensure that the law remains clear and that plant and machinery allowances can be claimed only in relation to alterations of land to install qualifying assets. The clause clarifies the legislation to provide certainty going forward and to protect the Exchequer from potential spurious and windfall claims for historical expenditure. The clause should be read alongside the introduction of a new structures and buildings allowance, which in time will become a very substantial relief that fills a significant gap in our capital allowances system.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Dorries. I thank the hon. Members for Stalybridge and Hyde and for Aberdeen North for their contributions, and I will endeavour to pick up the various points that have been made. Since 1994, capital allowances have not been available for most buildings and structures, including aqueducts, bridges, canals, roads and tunnels. It has been long understood by HMRC—and by taxpayers—that nobody can claim plant and machinery allowances where the expenditure relates to an excluded structure or building. Specifically, nobody can claim capital allowances for expenditure on altering land for the purpose of installing an asset that is excluded from allowances. Expenditure on buildings and structures is excluded in this way by sections 21 and 22 of the Capital Allowances Act 2001.”
“To ensure that those adjustments do not lead to unfair outcomes or an excessive administrative burden, the adjustments will be spread over the weighted average length of all leases held by a company following the adoption of the new accounting standard. The clause will ensure that, despite changes to the treatment of leases in some accounting standards, tax regimes that rely on those accounting standards continue to operate as intended. I therefore commend the clause and schedule 13 to the Committee. Question put and agreed to. Clause 35 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Schedule 13 agreed to. Clause 36 Oil activities: transferable tax history”
“That change will affect companies that prepare their accounts using international accounting standards and the UK accounting framework financial reporting standard 101, but not the alternative UK accounting framework FRS 102. It is therefore necessary for us to amend the tax legislation to ensure that it continues to operate as intended, and that companies do not face different tax outcomes depending on the accounting standards that they use. The clause will mean that for tax purposes lessees will be required to continue to distinguish between operating and finance leases, even where that distinction is no longer required for accounting purposes. That will maintain the status quo and avoid unfair outcomes. Additionally, the changes to the treatment of leases in the accounting standards may lead to large tax adjustments on transition.”
“Clause 35 and schedule 13 amend various parts of tax legislation to ensure that, despite changes to the treatment of leases in accounting standards, the legislation continues to operate as intended and does not give rise to unfair outcomes. The long funding lease regime, the corporate interest restriction rules, and certain other tax rules require taxpayers to distinguish between operating and finance leases in order to determine their tax treatment. The tax legislation has relied on accounting standards to make that distinction, but changes to the international accounting standards mean that from 1 January 2019 companies that lease assets will cease to distinguish between operating and finance leases in their accounts.”
“I therefore urge the Committee to reject the new clauses. The changes in the clause will help to ensure that the rules on the higher rates of stamp duty land tax are easier to understand and more transparent. I commend the clause to the Committee.”
“The new clause is not necessary; as is stated in the tax information and impact note published at the 2018 Budget, these changes are expected to have a negligible impact on the Exchequer, so a review on the revenue effects is not required. Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs already publishes annual and quarterly statistics setting out transactions subject to the higher rates of SDLT on additional properties and the transactions, volumes and values reclaimed. New clause 12 seeks to require a review of the effect of clause 43 on residential property prices. Clause 43 simply increases the time from disposal for people to make a claim to 12 months and confirms existing practice on the definition of “major interest”. Neither change is expected to have an impact on house prices and such a report would not be of benefit to Parliament.”
“The higher rates of stamp duty land tax are intended to apply when someone buys or already owns a major interest in a dwelling. “Major interest” is used to ensure that the higher rates for additional dwellings apply only to meaningful purchases of residential property and not to minor interests—for example, a right of way or a right to light. This change confirms, in line with the Government’s existing treatment, that an undivided share in land constitutes a major interest for the purposes of the higher rates. That also takes effect from 29 October 2018. New clause 10 seeks to commission a review on the revenue effects of the amendments to the Finance Act 2003 made by clause 43. It would require the Chancellor of the Exchequer to make an annual statement to the House on those who have made a reclaim for the higher rates.”
“Someone buying their new home before they sell their old home, however, must pay the higher rates up front but can claim a refund when they sell their old home within three years of buying their new home. When the old home is sold more than 12 months after the purchase of the new property, individuals are required to reclaim the higher rates within three months of the sale of the old property. The first change introduced by the clause will increase that period to 12 months, giving taxpayers a longer period within which to reclaim the higher rates. The change will apply to all disposals of a previous main residence from 29 October 2018. The second change addresses the term “major interest” in relation to the higher rates of stamp duty land tax, where some stakeholders have suggested that existing legislation is unclear.”
“Clause 43 makes changes to ensure that the stamp duty land tax higher rates for additional dwellings rules are easier to understand and more transparent. In April 2016, the Government introduced additional rates of SDLT for those purchasing additional residential property such as second homes and buy-to-let properties. The rates are 3 percentage points above the rates of SDLT ordinarily payable and are part of the Government’s commitment to support first-time buyers. The changes reflect feedback from the public and industry specialists about the key areas where the rules on the higher rates have proved challenging or do not work as well as they could. In general, purchasers buying their first property, replacing a main residence or buying an additional property worth less than £40,000 will not be subject to the higher rates.”
“The central point is that if someone is UK tax resident, their income is taxed, albeit that some of it may occur in other jurisdictions and perhaps be subject to double taxation arrangements between that jurisdiction and our jurisdiction. None the less, my hon. Friend’s assumption is correct that if someone has a property overseas, it is effectively counted as if it were a domestic property in the context of this clause. The easements that the clause introduces in terms of greater time to put in an application for a rebate at the higher rate apply equally whether one of the properties is overseas or here in the United Kingdom.”
“Clause 44 Exemption for financial institutions in resolution Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.”
“In other words, there is a disaggregation, and then the appropriate level of stamp duty is applied to each one of those properties at, in her example, the £200,000 level. However, it is also the case that each one of those properties in her example would attract the additional stamp duty charge in a situation in which more than one property is, of necessity, owned by the same purchaser. The hon. Lady’s final point was about the potential impact of these measures on house prices. I go back to my earlier remarks that this a change in the timing by which individuals are required to make reclaims at the higher rate; it is not a change to the window of opportunity for doing so. As I set out, that in itself is not expected to change house prices. Question put and agreed to. Clause 43 accordingly or dered to stand part of the Bill .”
“None the less, the statistic that she quoted of there being 1 million fewer homeowners under 45 than in 2010 is certainly something that we seek to address. I reassure her that, since the higher rates have been introduced, more than 650,000 people have bought their first home, and first-time buyers make up an increased share of the mortgaged housing market. That is what the underlying measure that we are debating is really all about: supporting first-time buyers and first-time home ownership. The hon. Lady also raised multiple dwellings relief and gave a clear exposition of how it works by way of her example of the £1 million and the five properties. The way she described it was entirely accurate.”
“I am sure that my hon. Friend will be tempted to speak by the time I have finished my remarks. The hon. Member for Oxford East raised several points. She sought an assurance that we are not watering down the measure. I can certainly give that assurance. For example, the three-year window will be the same for people to reclaim the higher rate where a property is not sold before a new property is purchased, albeit that we are giving people more time to apply for that rebate. The essence of the measure remains very much the same. The hon. Lady pointed out that home ownership is falling, particularly among young people. The Government are heavily engaged on that and have brought in various measures, as she will know, not least in the stamp duty area, with the stamp duty relief for first-time buyers.”
“The exemption also applies to the Bank of England, which may, in certain circumstances, need to take temporary ownership of a failing institution’s assets, in order to protect financial stability. The clauses will strengthen and add transparency to the resolution process by providing further clarity for affected creditors and the taxpayer. The register would impose an additional and unnecessary burden on the Bank of England and provide no great benefit to the public. By creating an exemption from stamp taxes on shares and SDLT for certain transfers arising from the use of resolution powers, the Government are simplifying and strengthening the UK’s resolution regime, and I therefore commend the clauses to the Committee.”
“Officials from the Treasury and HMRC have worked closely with officials from the Bank of England to develop the legislation. Turning to the amendments that have been tabled, amendment 90 seeks a review, within three months of the enactment of the Bill, of the viability of establishing a public register on the use of the exemption from stamp duty—something that I have already raised—and would require a report of the review to be laid before the House of Commons soon after its completion. The clauses do not create any tax exemptions for failing institutions themselves. The exemption would apply to creditors of failing financial institutions who see their debt holdings bailed in for equity, to ensure that affected creditors are not penalised inadvertently.”