Seema Malhotra
MP for Feltham and Heston · Labour (Co-op) · United Kingdom
“Public sector productivity is improving, with the latest Office for National Statistics figures showing output continuing to grow faster than inputs, and Departments being challenged to improve efficiency and modernise outdated processes.”
“I was proud to support the Feltham Convening Partnership’s young leaders summer programme last month. What struck me was their ambition for themselves and their community, as well as their call for more work experience opportunities.”
“We will be working to commence the socioeconomic duty on public bodies in section 1 of the Equality Act to require public authorities to put addressing socioeconomic disadvantage at the heart of their strategic decision making. There will be more on that to follow. Let me again thank my hon.”
“For generations, the message to those who want to enter public life or elite professions has been that if they want to get on, they must sound like everybody else. When Margaret Thatcher became leader of her party in the 1970s, she famously underwent intensive elocution lessons with a tutor from the National Theatre.”
“Whether a young person chooses a degree or a trade, their journey must be determined by merit and their potential—never by whether they have to change their voice or pretend to be someone else to fit in.”
“Interestingly, studies also regularly show that regional accents such as Welsh or Yorkshire are rated by the public as trustworthy, warm and honest. Yet when those same studies measure perceived intelligence or employability, standard southern English and received pronunciation invariably top the metrics.”
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“Will the Minister clarify whether some of these issues will come back in secondary legislation or whether we can identify the answers to those questions in other parts of the supporting paperwork? I think the legislation might suggest that the fees cover the costs of the functions under the chapter, but it is important for legislative scrutiny that we have clarity on that. Small businesses might be involved, and we want clarity and fairness in the process. Amendment 101, which we support, will correct a mistake in clause 291. We support clause 292. Schedule 23 sets out the criteria for an ADR provider to become accredited, including the provision of information to consumers, the independence and impartiality of the provider, and so on.”
“That would be extremely helpful. Otherwise, we welcome the clause as a necessary element of the new ADR provisions and as necessary to ensure that any ADR providers not fulfilling their duties to protect consumers can be stopped from acting as such a provider. Clause 291 sets out how the fees that accredited ADR providers will be required to pay to the Secretary of State will be determined. We recognise the need for the clause, and the potential need for ADR providers to pay periodic fees to maintain their accreditation and commitment to remaining accredited. However, I would welcome further explanation from the Minister because we are not clear about the amount to be paid in fees, the frequency of the fees or their purpose—where they will go. That is not clearly set out in the Bill or in the accompanying paperwork.”
“I should say that ADR providers could apply to have their accreditation revoked, and there are grounds on which the Secretary of State could apply specified sanctions. How will the changes come about? How will the information need to be received to meet a condition under subsection (3), listing contraventions? Might one route be through a consumer complaints system on the ADR process? How will that work? Perhaps I missed it, but I am not clear about when a consumer with concerns might challenge an ADR provider’s service or whether that is a route through which such matters might come to the notice of the Secretary of State in order to revoke, suspend or limit an accreditation or impose further conditions. Will the Minister clarify how the system is joined up from the perspective of the consumer and how the process will be managed?”
“Government amendment 100 will make it clear “that accreditation conditions can be worded so as to make an accredited ADR provider directly responsible for things done by another ADR provider who carries out ADR under special ADR arrangements made by the accredited provider under its accreditation. This could enable regulatory action under clause 290 or 293 to be taken against the accredited ADR provider in relation to acts of the other ADR provider.” This is important. It is a common-sense amendment, and it will extend protections for consumers. Clause 290 will enable the Secretary of State by notice to revoke, suspend or limit an accreditation, or impose further conditions on a previously accredited ADR provider. Will the Minister clarify how that might come about?”
“Amendments 98 and 99 are drafting amendments to clarify which accreditation conditions can be varied or removed by the Secretary of State when extending an accreditation. I would be grateful to discover whether any of the changes that might be made for ADR providers will be published so that they are on the public record. I do not know whether there will be a public record of ADR providers, so perhaps the Minister will also clarify that. If there is to be a public list, where will it be? That point relates to other issues, such as how people will be aware of those who might be able to provide the service.”
“However, this key part of how we ensure the quality of that provision, which would deal with the issues of confidence I referred to in my previous remarks, should be more clearly addressed. If necessary, more detail should be in the Bill itself. Clause 289 deals with how the Secretary of State would determine applications for accreditation or for the extension of an accreditation, but does not provide us with detail about how those decisions will be made. That relates to the same points I raised in relation to clause 288, and the Minister may therefore want to address it directly. Amendment 97 makes it clear that new accreditation conditions imposed when extending an accreditation are not limited to any particular part of the extended accreditation. We support the amendment.”
“The Minister might become the Secretary of State—we do not know, although obviously that would be a great thing for the Minister—but we have to make legislation that is future proof for future regimes, so that people can have confidence in it. If further detail on the procedure is to be published, when might that happen? Will it be after the Bill has attained Royal Assent, which, according to the impact assessment, may not happen until 2025? If further guidance is needed on what people need to do to be accredited, that will cause further delays. Are we potentially talking about 2026 before ADR providers are in place? That feels like quite a long way away. The ADR provisions are important for increasing consumer protection, and we welcome them.”
“If a consumer wants to know how people or organisations are accredited, the Bill does not provide clarity. That gives rise to concerns about what scrutiny will be possible if the procedure is not, for example, set out in detailed regulations. I would therefore be grateful if the Minister could explain what further detail there is. The providers will have quite a significant role in dealing with disputes. As I have said previously, we have heard about the Government’s research into consumers’ experiences, and the quality of ADR providers will be in part determined by the quality of the process by which they are accredited. That is why this issue is important. I would be grateful for the Minister’s response, because a lot could be left to the Secretary of State’s discretion.”
“As the Minister outlines, clause 288 sets out how persons or companies wishing to become accredited as ADR providers should apply for accreditation under chapter 4. Specifically, the clause sets out how a person wishing to be accredited must apply to the Secretary of State. I want to raise a concern with the Minister about some of the details that are lacking in the Bill and, from what I could see, the Bill’s supporting documentation; he may want to direct me to other documentation that we have missed. My question concerns subsection (4), which states: “The Secretary of State may determine the procedure to be followed in relation to an application for accreditation.” Subsection (5) then lists some criteria, but the procedure is still very open.”
“I recognise what the Minister says about moving to a mandatory system and the improvements being made, which is why it is important that we do not leave gaps. However, I want to push him on my point about expertise.”
“I have, and I quoted it to the Minister. What I asked him was how he will determine expertise, because in other legislation on ADR that we have debated, there has been some process. Have the providers been accredited? Is it based on experience? Do they have particular qualifications? Otherwise, expertise can be very subjective. That was the question I asked.”
“Of course I will trust the process, where I am sure that the process is a robust one. I do not think that we need to debate the issue much further, but it is not resolved, if I may say so. As I mentioned, I have been involved—it may have been with the Minister’s predecessor—with previous legislation relating to the ADR process. Anyone can say that they have expertise in something, but the important question is what their qualification is and how it is determined. I will look again at the issue, and I may follow up with the Minister in writing.”
“Clause 302 acts as a gateway to investigative assistance provisions. This is an important provision, enabling regulators in the UK to assist an overseas regulator. The Minister outlined the conditions under which the UK regulator may assist. We understand that the issues around consumer protection and competition must increasingly be dealt with internationally, because they are increasingly digital in nature and when they arise abroad can impact consumers here, as well as the other way around. As we have gone through these matters with short remarks today, my overall comment is that while we need this provision, the safeguards that might be needed and what is or is not to be published are less apparent.”
“Either I was not clear, or the Minister mistook me. I was not talking about the police being involved. I was asking whether there are processes of sharing information akin to the way that information is shared with police, so that it can be done in more confidence. The question was about what will be known to those whose information may be shared, if there is that request.”
“If I can put it a bit more simply, my question was about how the information will be shared, who will know that the information is being shared, and what that information is being shared about?”
“It is important to have this provision in legislation, not least because tackling competition issues requires us to play an active role in global competition and consumer protection policy. Question put and agreed to. Clause 309 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Clause 310 Duty of expedition on the CMA and sectoral regulators”
“I thank the Minister for his detailed remarks on clause 309. I will keep my remarks brief. I have concerns about some of the detail. The clause deals with disclosing information overseas. It will amend part 9 of the Enterprise Act by replacing the current overseas disclosure gateway in section 243 with new provisions governing the ability of the CMA and other UK public authorities to exchange information with overseas public authorities. As the Minister outlined, there will be three new gateways that allow for overseas disclosures in defined circumstances, with safeguards to protect specified information. We welcome the clause. It will be important to see how it is taken forward in the guidance.”
“The clause also introduces schedule 26, which imposes a duty of expedition on sectoral regulators in respect of their competition functions that are exercisable concurrently with the CMA. We support the schedule. Question put and agreed to. Clause 310 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Schedule 26 agreed to. Clause 311 Interpretation Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.”
“The Minister has outlined the detail of the clause. Again, I will keep my remarks brief. Clause 310 would insert a new schedule into the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Act 2013 to provide for a statutory duty of expedition in relation to specified CMA competition, consumer law and digital markets functions. The new provisions expand and replace the duty that previously applied in relation to the CMA’s functions. A new provision inserted by the clause specifies that, in making any decision or taking any action for the purposes of any of its functions within the new schedule, the CMA must have regard to the need to do so as soon as is reasonably practicable. That obligation would apply to all steps of the relevant investigatory, regulatory or enforcement process.”
“It is a regulator whose judgment we all clearly and rightly value, considering the increased powers—and expectations for its work—granted in the Bill. The new clauses are cost free and would significantly increase the protections available to consumers using the secondary ticketing market in the UK—they would dramatically increase protections for all consumers. I look forward to the Minister’s response.”
“Specifically, and as part of what seems to be the quite weak rationale by the Government for not adopting those proposals, there was the suggestion that the conviction of just two ticket touts three years ago acts as a robust enough deterrent to bad actors. That seems more like the Government kicking the can down the road and failing to act in the interests of consumers, which was so powerfully highlighted by my hon. Friend the Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) on Second Reading. I urge the Government to consider seriously these new clauses. This need not be party political; in fact, it is far from that. They are direct recommendations from the CMA, given the work that it has done and that it does.”
“However, even if platforms comply in full with these obligations, speculative listings and inaccurate information may still appear if the resellers do not provide correct information to the platforms about themselves and/or the tickets they are listing.” In each of those cases, there is a clear risk of consumer detriment, through being scammed or ripped off. As a result, the CMA in the same report made a series of recommendations to Government that would enable more robust enforcement in the sector. But shortly before the Bill was introduced, the Minister wrote to the CMA, stating that the Government would not adopt its recommendations.”
“The CMA often receives complaints about these practices but does not have the powers to tackle them.” It went on to say: “We are concerned that professional resellers may be i) speculatively advertising tickets that they do not own and ii) advertising tickets with inaccurate information about the ticket or the seller’s identity, which sellers are required to provide, by law, when listing tickets for sale. The CMA’s recent enforcement cases required viagogo and StubHub to put in place certain safeguards to ensure key information was gathered and displayed to consumers and that where such information was being displayed inaccurately this could be addressed.”
“However, the Minister will know that when those scams and rip-offs occur, there is little in the way of enforcement against either the seller or the platforms that host and legitimise them. The CMA’s 2021 report helpfully outlined the major areas of concern in the current secondary ticketing market. It said: “We are concerned that some approaches used by professional resellers to buy up tickets may be illegal – involving committing fraud and/or breaching legislation introduced to prevent the bulk purchase of tickets using computer bots...Such illegal activity will reduce the number of tickets available at face value on the primary market – and increase the number of tickets advertised through secondary ticket platforms at significantly higher prices.”
“New clause 10 would introduce a requirement on the Secretary of State to produce a report on the merits of introducing a new regulatory function in the secondary ticketing sector, as recommended by the CMA in its report. I will take a step back from the specifics of the new clauses to briefly address the broader picture of the secondary ticketing market, where consumers are continually ripped off or put at risk of falling victim to a scam. I am sure that many Committee members, and those who may be watching our proceedings, will have either had their own experiences or heard of constituents being ripped off or scammed for tickets to musical or sporting events. That is not to say that every person who resells on the secondary ticketing market is attempting to scam or rip off consumers—far from it.”
“The intent is simple: it would filter out sellers who have obtained tickets through the use of illegal bots with the intention to sell them on at a significantly inflated price. It would also reduce the risk of consumers being sold fake tickets. New clause 9 would amend the Consumer Rights Act 2015 to impose a duty on secondary ticketing platforms to verify details from the sellers who use them. That would make it harder for bad actors who intend to scam or rip off consumers to use secondary ticketing platforms, as it would be far easier to track their details. That is also a direct recommendation from the CMA’s 2021 report.”
“These new clauses all relate to the secondary ticketing market. In particular, they aim to further regulate the market in order to protect consumers in a sector where they are all too often left to fend for themselves. I do not plan to press these new clauses to a vote today, but I do want to speak to them. The Minister’s response will determine how we choose to move forward on Report or in further stages, because this is an important issue. New clause 8 would amend the Consumer Rights Act 2015 to introduce provisions banning sellers on secondary ticketing sites from selling from more tickets than can be bought by consumers on the primary market. That is a direct recommendation from the CMA’s August 2021 “Secondary ticketing” report.”
“We reserve the right to bring it back on Report, by which time we will have had further discussions with stakeholders on this. I hope it will be an issue on which we can move forward with the Government if we can demonstrate that there is a need to do more. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion. Clause, by leave, withdrawn.”
“I thank the Minister for his response. I think his overall message is that the existing legislation is enough and is proportionate. I take on board that he will keep it under review. He will know that there are different views on whether the regulations are enough, and it will be important to do further work with stakeholders on this. If there are ways that existing regulations can be used further to deal with at least some of the challenges, we would obviously all want to see that. The principle of not having regulation that we do not need if it can be dealt with by existing regulation is an important one that we all share. I think the question is whether it is enough, because currently the story suggests that it is not. However, I will not press the new clause to a vote today.”
“As a result, I hope the Minister agrees that parliamentary scrutiny of the kind that the new clause would provide is important for the effective operation of this new regulatory regime. I urge him to consider supporting the new clause—I know he has been sympathetic to similar clauses in earlier parts of the Bill—so that we see reports and discussion on the scrutiny measures of this House.”
“I note the Regulatory Reform Group, made up of MPs from the Minister’s own party, has recently called for a cross-party Committee to oversee the performance of regulators and to offer a systematic appraisal of the UK’s regulators that cover key economic sectors. Its members are not the only ones concerned by the overall lack of transparency and scrutiny of the performance of regulators and competition authorities. There is a need for better mechanisms to allow issues to be identified earlier and reforms to be made. Clearly, there is appetite in Parliament for further scrutiny of our regulators, not least the CMA. That is not to criticise the regulators in any way, but it is a reflection of their increased importance, our increased responsibility and the growing impact of their work in a digital economy, subject to that greater scrutiny.”
“With the former Regulatory Reform Committee being subsumed by the Business and Trade Committee, much of the opportunity for scrutiny is supposed to lie there. However, House of Commons Library research highlights that in the past five years, the CMA has appeared before the Committee just five times, and three times since 2021. The CMA does an incredibly significant job in our economy. While an average of one Select Committee appearance a year is appreciated, with the new functions granted by the Bill, one cannot help but feel that the oversight and scrutiny need to become more frequent and detailed to ensure parliamentarians and the public are as informed of the CMA’s work as possible.”
“The core principles behind the new clause—principles I would hope the Minister agrees with—are transparency and scrutiny. The legislation rightly confers significant powers on various regulatory bodies in the UK, not least the CMA. However, to ensure those powers are used as effectively and as fairly as possible, Parliament must be able to fully scrutinise their use and effectiveness in achieving their aims. There is also the question of where the report goes and who scrutinises it on behalf of Parliament and the public. While I appreciate and recognise that the CMA will have frequent communication and contact with various Departments and Secretaries of State, opportunities for scrutiny are more disparate.”
“I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time. New clause 11 would introduce an annual reporting requirement on the CMA to report to Parliament on the operation of their functions under parts 2 and 3 of the Act, complementing the new clause debated earlier in Committee that would have introduced such a report in relation to part 1 of the Bill. Specifically, the report under new clause 11 would need to include the effectiveness of the operation of the CMA’s functions under parts 2 and 3 and the impact of the operation of those functions on maintaining competition in digital markets and on the enforcement of consumer protection law. The report would have to be laid before both Houses of Parliament and be produced annually.”
“I thank the Minister for his remarks. New clause 11 was inspired by new clauses with a similar purpose in the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020, so there is an important precedent. I will not press the new clause to a vote, but we will keep the matter under review. I take this opportunity to thank all the Clerks who have been involved in the Committee. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion. Clause, by leave, withdrawn .”
“Clause 222 sets out where a commercial practice would be considered to have omitted material information. Subsection (2) lists what would constitute an omission, including the main characteristics of a product, the business address and the delivery price, among other things. Although we support the list of omissions and welcome its inclusion in the Bill, elements of the clause could go further to provide more protection to consumers, as reflected in amendment 127, tabled by Opposition Front Benchers, and amendment 126, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark, which we will come to.”
“Is there a wider definition or guidance on interpretation that would be helpful in providing clarification for the consumer as well as for those making a decision under the clause? I would welcome clarity from the Minister on that. Clause 221 defines commercial practices that contravene the requirements of professional diligence. That includes practices that fall short of the standard of skill and care that a trader may reasonably be expected to exercise towards consumers and that is commensurate in the trader’s field with honest market practice or the general principle of good faith. That is important for rooting out rogue traders who may not be qualified for their profession, whether they are builders, electricians or other experts. We welcome the definition.”
“Under the clause, a misleading omission would constitute the omission of material information and information that the trader is required by another enactment to provide. As with clause 218, it is a common-sense, straightforward clause and we support it. Clause 220 sets out how an aggressive practice could constitute harassment, coercion or undue influence. That can involve behaviour before a contract or purchase is made, but it can also occur after a transaction has taken place. We support the definition’s inclusion in the Bill, but I ask for clarification. I draw the Minister’s attention to subsection (3)(a), where the Bill states that “‘coercion’ includes the use or threat of physical force”. Does the Minister intend that coercion includes many other threats, be they financial or personal blackmail, to suggest just a couple?”
“Amendment 71 ensures that the definition of commercial practice for the purposes of chapter 1 of part 4 of the Bill includes an act or omission by a trader relating to the promotion or supply of a consumer’s product to another consumer. We welcome this amendment, which importantly ensures that the actions of rogue traders still fall under the definition of commercial practice and supports the integrity of the regime. Clause 218 introduces provisions defining commercial practices that are misleading actions. We welcome the clause, which provides a necessary definition of a misleading action, and support its inclusion in the Bill. Clause 219 introduces a definition of commercial practices that count as misleading omissions.”
“In addition, the subsection states that a commercial practice is unfair if it is listed in schedule 18, which we will debate in detail shortly. We welcome the clause as a necessary provision in prohibiting unfair commercial practice, and I reiterate that we look forward to working with the Minister, including in today’s debate. If there are ways in which we can improve the Bill, we are very happy to work collaboratively so that it is as robust as possible. The amendments tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark in the light of our discussions with stakeholders will play an important part in those deliberations.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr McCabe. Before we turn to the group led by amendment 118, I will make some brief remarks on clause 217 stand part and speak to Government amendment 71. Clause 217 sets out a general prohibition on unfair commercial practices. As the Minister has outlined, it defines commercial practice as “any act or omission by a trader relating to the promotion or supply of— the trader’s product to a consumer another trader’s product to a consumer, or, a consumer’s product to the trader or another trader”. Subsection (4) introduces provisions outlining what constitutes an unfair commercial practice, which may include a misleading action, a misleading omission or an aggressive practice, and those are dealt with in the following clauses.”
“Amendment 118 makes someone marketing goods online a trader. Amendment 119 makes it an unfair commercial practice to sell goods online unless the specified safety requirements have been complied with. Amendment 124 provides for a takedown power, about which the Minister has made some positive comments. We believe very strongly that that is needed, and I hope that he will give a commitment today about how we can take it forward, and whether the Government will accept the amendments tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark, which we support, or introduce their own during the course of the Bill.”
“I congratulate my hon. Friend on his tour de force in going through his amendments and the reasons for tabling them. We can all agree that as a package, the amendments move us further forward in ensuring that there is adequate regulation of products sold in online marketplaces. My hon. Friend also made reference to the work of Electrical Safety First and its research. Having met the organisation, spoken at its event in Parliament and seen the important work it does through the all-party parliamentary group on online and home electrical safety, I think I can say that we all recognise that we must ensure the steps taken in the Bill will be adequate to deal with the challenges we know consumers face and which can put families, lives and businesses at risk. My hon. Friend spoke to his amendments.”
“I will speak just briefly to schedule 18 and then to amendments 68 and 69. I thank the hon. Member for Gordon for his amendments and his explanation of them. Schedule 18 introduces—”
“Important work has been done, but in the absence of any real leadership or strategy from the Government I want to ask the Minister whether they intend to put the green claims code, or its successor, on a statutory footing. Making sure that we have a robust legislative underpinning and strategy for such issues is increasingly important, because many stakeholders see a gap. Greenwashing was also mentioned by consumer groups in the Committee’s evidence sessions. I would press the Minister on whether the Government have plans to introduce amendments on the issue, and to strengthen voluntary or other codes relating to green claims and expectations. In an increasingly green economy, consumers are at risk of falling victim to misleading green advertising, and legislation needs to catch up.”
“I asked the Minister what overall strategy he has to ensure that green claims are accurate and evidenced, and I asked that we have a strategy for the prevention of false claims as well as a mechanism for enforcement against them. As has been argued, that issue is on the increase, particularly for younger people. Research has shown that those under 35 across the world make decisions about products, services and even their employment on how much they trust the information that they see in relation to sustainability and climate responsibility. If we do not tackle that issue, we will see a further increase in people misleadingly marketing products because they know that those issues drive consumer purchases. They have great influence on consumer purchases and decisions. The Minister might refer to the green claims code introduced by the CMA.”
“That is fine. I have one line, but it can come later. Amendment 68 would ban the practice of greenwashing. Making unsubstantiated claims about the sustainability of products and services would be an unfair commercial practice. Amendment 69 is consequential on amendment 68 and would require the Government to define which products and services can be labelled “sustainable”, and requires that the definition complies with international standards. I support the principle of the amendments tabled and the arguments made. They are along the lines of the discussion that we had in Committee last week when I spoke to the issues around greenwashing, our standards and support for evidence.”
“Lengthy transaction processes associated with drip pricing can ensure consumers gain a greater sense of ownership of a product and are less likely consider other offers once additional costs are revealed.” It is clear that the introduction of drip pricing to the list of unfair commercial practices would be supported by consumer groups and the CMA, so I urge the Minister to consider supporting the amendment. I look forward to his response.”
“For example, multiple hotel booking firms were shown to have failed to have displayed compulsory charges such as taxes, booking or resort fees in the headline price. However, while the use of these practices is common, the CMA has found its enforcement against drip pricing has been inhibited by the absence of an explicit ban.” In its 2021 paper, “Reforming Competition and Consumer Policy”, the CMA notes: “Drip pricing causes real detriment to consumers...Advertising of Prices market study concluded that of a series of different price framing practices, drip pricing was clearly the most harmful frame for consumers in terms of purchasing and search errors, and that raised levels of consumer learning did not fully mitigate issues with the practice.”
“There is a lot of evidence that that is the case, and it should be included on the face of the Bill.” –– [ Official Report, Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Public Bill Committee, 13 June 2023; c. 13, Q16.] That sentiment was reflected in Committee by Citizens Advice, the National Consumers Federation and Consumer Scotland, all of which argued that schedule 18 could be improved by adding the practice of drip pricing. Which? provided evidence of consumer detriment in its written submission, which states: “We know that in many online markets people overpay for products and services because only part of an item’s price is initially shown and the total amount to be paid is revealed only at the end of the buying process.”