Seema Malhotra
MP for Feltham and Heston · Labour (Co-op) · United Kingdom
“Public sector productivity is improving, with the latest Office for National Statistics figures showing output continuing to grow faster than inputs, and Departments being challenged to improve efficiency and modernise outdated processes.”
“I was proud to support the Feltham Convening Partnership’s young leaders summer programme last month. What struck me was their ambition for themselves and their community, as well as their call for more work experience opportunities.”
“We will be working to commence the socioeconomic duty on public bodies in section 1 of the Equality Act to require public authorities to put addressing socioeconomic disadvantage at the heart of their strategic decision making. There will be more on that to follow. Let me again thank my hon.”
“For generations, the message to those who want to enter public life or elite professions has been that if they want to get on, they must sound like everybody else. When Margaret Thatcher became leader of her party in the 1970s, she famously underwent intensive elocution lessons with a tutor from the National Theatre.”
“Whether a young person chooses a degree or a trade, their journey must be determined by merit and their potential—never by whether they have to change their voice or pretend to be someone else to fit in.”
“Interestingly, studies also regularly show that regional accents such as Welsh or Yorkshire are rated by the public as trustworthy, warm and honest. Yet when those same studies measure perceived intelligence or employability, standard southern English and received pronunciation invariably top the metrics.”
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“Exempting information from public disclosure pending verification by the registrar is a reasonable provision, since it could be argued that such information might otherwise give a misleading or inaccurate picture of the registry if certain information released to the public was ultimately excluded on the grounds that it could not be verified. Clause 84 also deals with the names of companies registered incorrectly or used for criminal purposes. As the explanatory notes confirm, the intention is to prevent such information from being disclosed to the public, but a slightly clearer explanation of those provisions would be helpful. It seems reasonable in most cases to exclude information submitted in error to the registrar.”
“I am grateful to the Minister for his intervention. The clauses on the register include important provisions related to information sharing and the parameters of information that may be made available to the public. They are hugely important on a number of levels, facilitating access to relevant information for law enforcement and, more broadly, building public trust and confidence in our laws on economic crime. As drafted, the Bill appears to lean much more heavily towards restricting the availability of information to the public, and as we have said, an explanation of the Government’s thinking and rationale on these issues would be helpful for the deliberations of the Committee. Clause 84 deals specifically with exemptions from requirements to make information publicly available.”
“Have I jumped? That is my fault. I have just checked the grouping, and I see that we are discussing clauses 82 and 83. In which case, I will stop there.”
“That is clear. I was slightly confused by the grouping, but that is absolutely clear, and I will continue my remarks when we come to the next group.”
“The more general question of what information should be made publicly available, and the criteria on which those decisions are made, will be discussed shortly in relation to the next clause, but I would be grateful for the Minister’s comments.”
“It would be helpful if the Minister could set out the Government’s thinking on those issues. Clause 85 amends the Companies Act to give more powers to the registrar, for instance in relation to the format in which information may be provided. The provision enabling the registrar to require an application for access to information to be submitted electronically is broadly welcome, inasmuch as it supports the wider objective of delivering more streamlined and effective services, although it may be helpful for the Minister to clarify when he expects a fully electronic process for members of the public to request and access information held by the registrar to be up and running. Clause 86 extends the scope for information, including information of the kind covered by previous clauses, not to be disclosed by the registrar.”
“If, however, all investigations and, where relevant, prosecutions and court proceedings have reached their conclusion, there might be an argument for public disclosure of said information about the company in question to then be permitted. If it is the Government’s intention to prevent disclosures of company names used for criminal purposes only in circumstances where it is absolutely necessary to do so, perhaps the wording of clause 84, which is currently quite broad, may be usefully amended to reflect that. I am also raising those concerns on behalf of my hon. Friend the Member for Aberavon. Perhaps there could be a specific provision enabling information on such company names to be disclosed to the public once any criminal proceedings are over in cases where there may be a public interest to do so.”
“Clause 84, as I alluded to earlier, deals with names of companies registered incorrectly or used for criminal purposes. The explanatory notes confirm that the intention is to prevent such information from being disclosed to the public. Excluding information submitted to the registrar in error seems reasonable, as I mentioned earlier, in most cases. With regard to company names used for criminal purposes, I would be grateful if the Minister could clarify whether the intention behind clause 84 is to prevent the disclosure of information relevant to a specific criminal investigation that may be ongoing. I am sure that we all agree that sensitive information should not be disclosed if doing so would compromise an active investigation by law enforcement agencies.”
“Those are just two examples of how important it is that legitimate journalistic access to information held by the registrar must be protected. It is with those concerns in mind that we have tabled amendment 114. Its aim is to ensure that there is a default presumption in favour of disclosing information in response to a request, whether from a journalist or an ordinary member of the public, and to ensure that legitimate requests are refused only when there is clear evidence of a compelling reason to do so. We believe that the powers granted to the Secretary of State under clause 87, as drafted, are simply too broad. We therefore strongly urge the Government to support the sentiments in amendment 114.”
“This amendment seeks to expand the registrar’s powers to release information about the Companies House register, where it is in the public interest to do so, while also enabling personal information relating to an individual to be withheld in cases where there are compelling reasons to do so. It is a pleasure to speak to the amendment, tabled in my name and that of my hon. Friend the Member for Aberavon. It appears at least possible that the Government could place strict limits on the rights of journalists to request information, for example, in connection with investigations that may well be firmly in the public interest. Disclosures of that kind have been seen in the Panama papers and the Paradise papers.”
“(7B) For the purposes of subsection (7A) above, “compelling reasons for the information to be withheld” include circumstances in which the registrar may decide that public release of the information may result in— (a) a serious threat to the personal safety and security of the individual to which the information relates; (b) adverse effects on any investigation by an appropriate officer of a suspected offence under this Act; (c) adverse effects on the ability of an appropriate officer to impose a penalty for any offence under this Act; or (d) a clear risk to the national security of the UK;’.”
“I beg to move amendment 114, in clause 87, page 68, line 7, at end insert— ‘(7A) Regulations under subsection (1) above may not prevent the registrar from making available for public inspection information mentioned in paragraphs (a) to (d) unless there are compelling reasons for the information to be withheld.”
“I will not push amendment 114 to a vote. It is an area where there is probably further debate to be had but, having reflected on that with my hon. Friend the Member for Aberavon, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. Question proposed , That the clause stand part of the Bill.”
“We had a debate before on the questions about safeguards, some of the uses of those powers and the extent to which there may be information that is not publicly available that ought to be, in the public interest. I would be grateful for a further discussion of the matter. I will work with my hon. Friend the Member for Aberavon to put together a note for the Minister with some more specific points to which it would be useful to have responses before Report.”
“I wish to make a few remarks. I take on board the Minister’s comments, and we all agree about instances where there may be domestic violence reasons, for example, or other security and personal information reasons for why an individual’s home addresses and so on should not be disclosed. As discussed earlier, transparency plays a vital role in building public confidence in our ability to crack down on fraudulent or other criminal abuses of our companies legislation. Arguably, clause 87 grants an extraordinary degree of power to the Secretary of State to specify in regulations not just what information may be disclosed to the public, but who might be permitted to request information in the first place and on what grounds. It is quite a long clause.”
“New clause 42 would require Companies House to verify both the identity and the shareholding of a person who controls 5% or more of shares in a company where the registrar’s risk-based analysis set out in amendment 116 has identified a matter of concern. New clause 43, tabled by my right hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill, would introduce a new provision requiring disclosure of shares held by a nominee. Under the new clause, any person holding shares in a public company as nominee for another person must disclose that fact to the registrar. The registrar may also impose a penalty on any person who fails to comply.”
“In its evidence, R3 outlines that around 400,000 companies—I think the Minister also cited this number—are dissolved and struck off the Companies House register each year. We would be grateful if the Minister responded to what we see as a loophole and, in light of previous discussions, explained whether it goes as far as it could. I will speak briefly to new clauses 41 to 43. New clause 41 would require a person who controls 5% or more of the shares in a public company to disclose the total amount of their shares to the registrar. It would also require a person controlling shares through multiple nominees to declare the total number of shares they control.”
“R3, the insolvency and restructuring trade body, said in its written evidence to the Committee that “the Government has missed a crucial opportunity to truly close some of the loopholes currently exploited so easily by fraudsters. The Bill’s proposals will be limited in their efficacy to bring about real change to preventing and disrupting economic crime if companies used as vehicles for fraud continue to be dissolved and struck off the Companies House register automatically, with next to no due diligence carried out to ascertain whether the company has been involved in fraudulent activity”. New clause 38 would tackle precisely that issue, which has arisen in other parts our debate, and introduce the due diligence necessary to ascertain whether a dissolved company has been involved in criminal activity.”
“New clause 38 would provide that in a case where the registrar’s risk assessment under section 1062A(1A) has identified a matter of concern in relation to a dissolved company, the registrar must examine the accounts of the dissolved company with a view to establishing whether any economic crime has been committed. The registrar must share details of any evidence gathered under subsection (1A) with the relevant law enforcement agencies. We welcome the introduction of the new clause, as it would ensure that directors of companies that have been set up and used for fraudulent or criminal purposes are unable to simply dissolve the company to avoid scrutiny or investigation before potentially committing a similar offence with another company.”
“As we have called for throughout the Committee, we must ensure that the Bill acts on its aims and helps move and encourage Companies House to shift from being a passive administrator to a proactive agent, because Companies House plays a very important role as a first line of defence. The new clause would do just that. I welcome the Minister’s thoughts on these measures. If he opposes the new clause, as he has hinted he might, can he see some arguments for adding some necessary teeth to the legislation, and might he bring forward suggestions of his own?”
“I will speak briefly to new clause 37, tabled by my right hon. Friend the Member for Barking. We welcome the new clause, which would insert a duty on the registrar to check an individual’s person of significant control status. That would apply where the registrable person’s identity is verified in the way that she outlined. The registrar would then take steps to ensure that the registrable person whose identity is being verified is indeed a person with significant control over the company. The new clause would ensure that, where there is an identified risk suggestive of potential economic crime with regard to a registrable person who is a person of significant control, that person’s status is then investigated by the registrar or put forward for further investigation, depending on the circumstance.”
“This is complex, and it is important to think about the role and objective of prevention, and to give some greater clarity about what might be expected by Parliament in relation to achieving it. Where the risk-based assessment that could be carried out identifies a matter of concern, it would be clear that it was Parliament’s intention that further analysis that may be needed can be carried out, and that information can and should be shared with the relevant law enforcement agency. As we have stated, the amendments would help to ensure that the legislation in the end does in practice what it sets out to do. That is what we all want to achieve. Indeed, the amendments would give a little more shape to the proactive role that Companies House would have in detecting and preventing economic crime.”
“Amendment 120 would ensure that, in carrying out the analysis, the registrar will make use of the power to require additional information under section 1092A, where the registrar considers that additional information may contribute. Making that explicit would be helpful. Amendment 116 would require the registrar, when analysing information for the purposes of detecting and preventing economic crime, to take a risk-based approach. I think that we all agree on that, but my right hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill expressed what we expect from the police in terms of thinking a little more widely in relation to the prevention of crime. We do not seek to extend the requirements too far beyond what is practical for the registrar to do, or to detract from their main responsibilities.”
“I hope that the Minister will be able to reflect on the amendments in the round in the context of adding a layer of robustness to the Bill by ensuring that the registrar is clear on her duty to use the information available and the importance of doing so, and therefore giving confidence. Sometimes when legislation is a little too broad, or not clearly interpreted, it can lead to inertia. It is not always clear what can be done or what was intended by Parliament. Therefore, the reaction is to do less just in case something would cross a line. That is where clarity on how the legislation will be interpreted is important. If there are ways in which we can go further without a downside, we should consider them.”
“Although the clause does not contain many subsections, it is important, because it is a very big aspect of what we need to be working to achieve and supporting the registrar to achieve, yet it does not go into much detail about Parliament’s intentions and what the Minister expects. The Minister and I disagree slightly. Although I agree that some of the amendments might be slightly more prescriptive than we might like—that is partly about probing and making points on the record—the clause sets out remarkably little direction on a very big part of what we want the registrar to do.”
“It is a pleasure to speak in this debate on amendments and new clauses relating to clause 88. My right hon. Friend has gone through the measures in considerable detail, so I will limit my remarks, but I want to put on record a number of points about them, because they are important. Amendments 119, 120 and 116 would ensure that the registrar, rather than carrying out analysis as she sees appropriate, would analyse information in her possession with a view to preventing or detecting crime. I hope that hon. Members agree that we all want the same thing. I also hope that the Minister recognises the work that has gone into thinking this through and seriously considers taking some of the sentiments and wording of the amendments, or perhaps some other wording, to add another layer of robustness to the Bill.”
“As I have said before, we do not necessarily have any problem with what is in the Bill. It is about what is not in the Bill. The clause is important. We have debated how it can be improved and I am sure we will come back to debate that further. On the basis that it is an important part of the Bill, we support clause stand part. Question put and agreed to . Clause 88 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. — (Scott Mann.)”
“When the Minister writes to my right hon. Friend the Member for Barking—which I am sure will be copied to all members of the Committee—it would be helpful to understand who would have been in scope in the original drafting, what specifically changed and who would be out of scope in the revised drafting. It would be clearer for us to know whether it has narrowed correctly, whether it is a tightening—and we should be happy with it—or whether, inadvertently, in dealing with one matter it has excluded others who might be useful to draw into the scope of the provision.”
“There should be a way, through the design of the computer systems, which is being undertaken as part of the transformation in Companies House, for the registrar to trigger an automatic alert when somebody becomes a designated person to inform the Office of Financial Sanctions Implementation and the National Crime Agency that something had happened on the record in the previous three months. That would therefore not require a huge amount of resource and labour, but there would be a useful report and trigger if the Bill required the registrar to do that.”
“I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. I feel that we have allowed this conversation to get a bit more complicated than it needs to be on one specific point in relation to amendment 83, and I think the Minister has made it slightly more complicated too. I understand that the Minister may be wondering whether a huge scope of things have happened in the three months prior to a person becoming a designated person. Does he agree that proposed new section 11B(2) could be tighter so that where it says, “If the person changes”, it specifies changes to owners, directors or other information relating to the company on the register in the three months prior to the person becoming a designated person?”
“I thank the Minister for giving way. I do not think this is a case of micromanagement, and nor are we asking for hundreds of things. We are making a specific request, based on specific research. I think an automatic alert could be triggered, and perhaps the Minister—”
“I will just finish my point. Should the registrar be watching this debate and decide that an automatic alert is a good idea, does the Minister agree that the power of information sharing would enable the registrar to consult the Office of Financial Sanctions Implementation and the National Crime Agency should a relevant change have occurred in the previous three months?”
“I realise we may be coming to the end of the sitting, so I will speak to clause 43 in detail later. Ordered, That the debate be now adjourned.— (Scott Mann .)”
“I think we have raised before the need to ensure there is sufficient clarity and accountability on the use of the powers. Clause 40 makes it a criminal offence, punishable by a fine, for someone to act as a director unless their company has notified the registrar within 40 days. We welcome that, but I would like the Minister to clarify subsection (5), which allows a defence for a director who can prove they reasonably believed their company had been given notice of a director’s appointment. In the interest of working with the Government on this, may I ask the Minister for assurances on what would constitute proof of reasonable belief in this instance? Would it be possible to provide an example of where an exemption from sanctions might be applied? The Minister may want to write to me. We welcome clauses 41 and 42.”
“Nick Van Benschoten of UK Finance said in his evidence to the Committee on verification standards that one of the key points is that they “fall short of minimum industry standards.” –– [ Official Report, Economic Crime and Corporate Transparency Public Bill Committee, 25 October 2022; c. 7, Q3.] I am sure the Minister will want to ensure that ID verification will be of the highest standard. I would like to press the Minister on the part of the clause that grants the Secretary of State the power to exempt certain directors from not acting until their identity has been verified. I am seeking clarity on why the measure is needed. Will it be for categories of people or individuals? Finally, will any use of the exemption be transparent and reported on?”
“We agree that that is a positive step in ensuring that directors are who they say they are. Hopefully, it will also mean that people will be less likely to commit or even attempt to commit economic crimes. Questions remain on the implementation and enforcement of identity verification, some of which we have discussed previously. We recognise that there are ongoing concerns. Martin Swain of Companies House said that we are still in the “design phase” for ID verification. It is difficult to be clear on the implications of the legislation we are passing without having clarity over ID checks. When will they be operational? What can we expect to be in them? How quickly will we and the registrar expect them to be completed? Will the Minister confirm that they will be of the highest standards?”
“It is an important provision to ensure that shadow directors remain liable for contraventions of the Companies Act 2006. We recognise the need for clause 38 and support it. Clause 39 introduces provisions that would provide that an individual cannot act as a director of a company unless their ID has been verified or they benefit from an exemption specified by the Secretary of State. In addition, it provides that breaching that would be a criminal offence for the director, the company and every other responsible officer, punishable by a fine. In practice, it would mean that once the clause comes into force, individuals should not take any actions on behalf of the company in their capacity as director until they verify their identity. We welcome and support the clause.”
“On clause 37, section 87 of the 2015 Act contains amendments that have not yet been brought into force. It requires all directors to be natural persons, and it contains provision for circumstances in which people under 16 can become directors. We support the clause, which would amend the provisions to ensure that persons remain responsible for their acts as directors—I think we have had a brief conversation on this—even though they are no longer legally considered to be directors. That is important, because the practical consequence of the clause is that if a person continues to act like a director, even if they have officially been removed from office, they can still be legally responsible for any breaches of the law that they commit as a director. That could be on wrongful trading or other matters. We welcome the clause.”
“New section 169A also says that a person who has been appointed as a director ceases to be one if they are disqualified. The two new sections appear straightforward, but has the Minister considered whether the provisions could be extended to ban the appointment of directors who may have been disqualified outside the UK? The Government could pursue that by extending the definition of directors disqualification legislation in new section 159A(2) to cover the analogous disqualification regimes in such jurisdictions as the Secretary of State may designate in regulations. That would allow the UK Government to specify or choose countries that have disqualification regimes that we would be happy to rely on. It seems that it might be a useful consideration, and I would be grateful for the Minister’s comments on that.”
“Thank you, Ms Elliott. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship. I will speak for the Opposition on clauses 36 to 43, and I will say a few words about our new clause 35. We welcome what the Minister said, and we do not propose to push the new clause to a vote today, but I want to put some of our comments on the record. It would be useful if the Minister could clarify when he might want to come back and continue the conversation, subject to being able to look at further data on those who have been convicted under the legislation. As we have established, clause 36 inserts proposed new sections 159A and 169A into the Companies Act, so that those who are disqualified from being a director under UK law cannot be appointed as one.”
“I will welcome the Minister’s comments and I look forward to continuing to work with him as we make progress.”
“Friend the Member for Aberavon and I tabled new clause 35 is to include provision such that persons convicted under the National Minimum Wage Act 1998 cannot be appointed as company directors. There are real questions about whether we would want an employer who wilfully neglected or refused to pay the national minimum wage to a worker who qualified for it to be the director of a company after the Bill comes fully into force. The new clause would strengthen a lot of the measures in the Bill, because we are talking about people we hope to trust to undertake their responsibilities as a director. The Bill introduces a substantial amount of regulation about who can and cannot serve as a company director as a result of criminal or potentially criminal practices, so this feels like the right place for consideration of such a measure.”
“It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Robertson. I will continue to speak to this group, finishing with a few remarks about clause 43 and our new clause 35. We welcome clause 43 and recognise that it reflects new circumstances that arise from the Bill’s abolition of local registers of directors, set out in clause 50. We have further questions on that, which we will deal with when we come to later clauses. On new clause 35, let me put our argument on the record. I thank the Minister for his comments, which I hope suggest that we will move on in some form, perhaps with the data he comes back with. Will he update us on when he expects to come back to us, so that we can come to a conclusion, and perhaps on an alternative way to make progress on the matter, during the passage of the Bill? The reason my hon.”
“The important principle running through the Bill is increased transparency in terms of publication and searchability, but the Bill also provides for private companies to exercise the option not to be on the central register. Perhaps I have not followed all the detail relating to the disclosure of shareholder information, but after the Bill’s implementation, I think there will be less publicly available shareholder information and not more. I look forward to the Minister’s response to those concerns.”
“Procedures in the future may result in less transparency, and for good reason, but it is important that we understand the reasons for that and that they are on public record as we consider the Bill. It is possible that transparency is countered by the implementation of the Bill and the subsequent legislation for which it makes provision. That may reduce transparency by backdoor means, as it were, and reduce its scope to apply to those very individuals whom we may want to subject to such transparency. I am sure that the Minister understands why we want to probe that issue. Clause 48 concerns the removal of the option to use the central register. Given all the measures relating to transparency and shareholder information, I am concerned about their total effect.”
“The Minister clearly set out the arguments for clause 46, and we support the expansion of the court’s powers. Clause 47 relates to the register of members and the protection of information. As the Minister outlined, the clause would allow the Secretary of State to make regulations requiring a company to refrain from using or disclosing individual membership information except in specified circumstances. I was not fully clear who may make applications to the registrar not to use or disclose information. There may well be good reasons for such a request, but what individuals do the Government have in mind and in what circumstances could such a direction be made?”
“In the Minister’s opinion, would the clause provide for a potential future decision by the Secretary of State to bring forward proposals to request identity verification and perhaps directors’ IDs from shareholders with shares of less than 5%? I wonder whether this should be among the requirements for transparency of shareholder information in the Bill, which specifies changes to information that must be entered. If there are measures that could be brought forward, should they not be in the Bill rather than in future regulations? Is it a case of simply saying, “We will go as far as we think is relevant now and leave the option open for additions later”? Where the Minister thinks there could be further measures later, it would be interesting to debate whether some of them could be brought forward.”
“While we talk separately about directors, officers and shareholders, in the end we are talking about entities working together as a whole, and wanting transparency about activity, and who is involved in it, as a whole. Clause 45 concerns the power to amend required information. As the Minister outlined, the clause allows the Secretary of State to make regulations to specify changes to the information that must be entered in a company’s register of members. This is an important clause, and I have a couple of questions for the Minister. First, is there any consideration of what information may be required? I think there was some suggestion about the addresses of company members.”
“In particular, the withdrawal of the central register, with information held only by the company rather than centrally, will make it harder to have public access and knowledge of who shareholders are. It is important for us to emphasise why transparency continues to be so important. Transparency International has noted that, until now, shareholder information has been extremely limited and difficult to access. That has been a core factor in the UK’s unwanted reputation as a hub for dirty money and economic crime. The lack of any substantial rules and regulations around shareholder information reduces the reliability of the information published by Companies House and, in turn, of the totality of information about a company held by Companies House. We have tabled amendments to later clauses, but I wanted to make that broader point.”
“I thank the Minister for his comprehensive walk through these clauses, which I am sure he wrote overnight. It was very helpful. I have a few questions, but I will start by speaking to clause 44, which amends the Companies Act 2006 so that for individuals entered in a register of members, commonly denoting shareholders, “name” refers to a forename and surname. I have made the point before that it is quite staggering that we have not had such specification of the information that should be required. We absolutely welcome this measure and the encouraging of greater transparency of company shareholders. We support the clause, but it seems to be countered by moves that arguably encourage less transparency of shareholders.”