Daniel Zeichner
MP for Cambridge · Labour · United Kingdom
“I recall, as a shadow Minister, visiting a major institution in the country and sending the management into panic when I asked them where the bus stop was to get back to the station.”
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right about the location of bus stops. I am so frustrated when I have taken the train to Cambridge, arrive at the station, see the bus, but have to walk 200 yards around the platform, come out of the station and walk 200 yards back to the bus stop, to find the bus has gone.”
“Devolution and local government reorganisation are different things. To be honest, they should probably be considered separately, but they have become so interlinked and intertwined in this debate that it is impossible to do so. If we are to have a stronger devolution settlement, it is right to spend more time getting it right.”
“I commend the Secretary of State and his team for their determination and resolve in the transfer to renewables. In the extraordinary and unprecedented weather that we are having at the moment I can assure the House that some shade would be really welcome in parts of the east of England.”
“I commend all the hard work that has gone into both the road map and the profitability review by the civil servants, the ministerial team and so many people across the sector, including Baroness Batters.”
“On that point about speculative building, I appreciate that the hon. Gentleman is probably not a fan of big, bold projects of this kind, but does he agree that there is a very good example just down the road in Cambridge?”
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“Friend the Member for Dunfermline and Dollar (Graeme Downie) spoke about how prosperity comes to rural areas. Sometimes it comes from filming and TV. There are many ways in which prosperity is earned in the countryside; this is the future. My hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle (Ms Minns) spoke about rural crime and PC Susan Holliday; I very much commend her for her work. My hon. Friend the Member for York Outer (Mr Charters) spoke about not just flooding but biosecurity, which is so important, and mental health, which we will come to in the Adjournment debate. I associate myself with the comments of the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Keighley and Ilkley (Robbie Moore), about the important work that so many charities are doing. My hon.”
“We also heard about the important transition from the basic payments system towards the new way of working with and rewarding farmers effectively. From my hon. Friend the Member for Macclesfield (Tim Roca) we heard about crime. It was interesting that it took a Labour Member, so deep into the debate, to talk about an issue that anyone who had actually been out on farms would have heard about—the constant thefts of GPS units. I sometimes wonder what world Conservative Members are living in—do they just read The Daily Telegraph all the time? Is that where they get their information? My hon. Friend the Member for Bolton West (Phil Brickell) spoke about wonderful national parks and better access to the countryside, which is important for so many people; the Government will deliver on that. My hon.”
“I always listen closely to his speeches and he made an important point when he said it is not about the figures. That is true, because the figures have been misrepresented, but he was right to say that there is a real fear out there—precisely because of the misrepresentations, not because of the figures. We heard from my hon. Friend the Member for South Norfolk (Ben Goldsborough), who showed the difference between this side of the House and the other side. The future will be different for rural areas, food production and farming— [ Interruption. ] In a good way, because we are the future, they are the past. Then we went to my hon. Friend the Member for Whitehaven and Workington (Josh MacAlister), and we heard about how important it is to work collaboratively with people.”
“How much we should all work to ensure that food poverty is not faced in the future. I cannot talk about all the speeches today, but I was pleased to hear the right hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds) raising some other issues beyond the one that I will come to in a moment. We heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster East and the Isle of Axholme (Lee Pitcher) about flooding—a feature of many speeches. We heard a powerful speech from my hon. Friend the Member for Shrewsbury (Julia Buckley) about the positive things that the Labour Government are doing to address the real issues that we face. We also heard from the Chair of the Select Committee, who is not in his place— [ Interruption. ] I am sorry—I missed him. I think he has moved.”
“Friend the Member for Cannock Chase (Josh Newbury) spoke about a range of issues— [ Interruption. ] Of course farming is important, but Conservatives should remember that many other things are going on in rural areas. We heard about those from my hon. Friend, but we also heard about ghastly homophobic bullying, and I pay tribute to him for his brave comments. We heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Stirling and Strathallan (Chris Kane) about the extraordinary pedigree in his constituency, as well the wide range of issues, including film and television production, that help to create rural prosperity. Closer to my part of the world, my hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (David Taylor) described the beautiful countryside, but also talked of the challenges in housing and the food banks that scar our country.”
“It is a pleasure to have the opportunity to wind up this debate and to add my gratitude to, and support for, farmers working hard up and down the country to feed the nation and protect our environment. I welcome the shadow Ministers to their places on the Opposition Front Bench. I spent nearly five years sitting there, and I have to say it is better on this side. During that time, how rarely we ever got to discuss rural policy in the Chamber. It is interesting that it has taken a Labour Government to give Government time to allow Members to speak up for rural areas. What brilliant contributions we have had from Labour Members about the things that matter to rural areas. I shall mention some of the excellent speeches. I was thrilled to hear the three maiden speeches. My hon.”
“I am confident that we will have a strong future for British farming in this country, provided that people do not spend the whole time talking it down. Question put and agreed to. Resolved, That this House has considered rural affairs.”
“This year’s settlement has been carried forward in the same way as before, but what has changed is that it is no longer ringfenced for the devolved Administrations, so they can make the decisions. I would hope that the devolved Administrations would welcome that. Let me finish on the positive news about the future that we are setting out for our food production system. I give credit to the previous Government for the agricultural transition that they began. The difference now is that we will turbocharge it and ensure that we transition in such a way that in the future we not only have strong food production in this country, but protect the environment and nature, with the stability of the biggest budget ever—over half a billion pounds for SFI this year. That would not have happened under the previous Government.”
“I will not, because I am afraid we are very close to the end. Opposition Members had four hours to get to the figures, but of course they would not want to engage with them because they tell a different story. We are confident that the policy can be made to work, but I am in discussion with the NFU and others on the figures so that they can understand how we arrived at the policy. We will continue to ensure that we engage properly with everybody. My hon. Friends have discovered that when they go and talk to people and explain it clearly, people are reassured. People should be reassuring rather than frightening. Members raised issues around the devolved budgets.”
“The Department for Culture, Media and Sport also supports organisations that can play a role in reducing loneliness stigma among men in particular, through the Tackling Loneliness Hub. That online platform connects professionals from across sectors working to reduce loneliness. I conclude by thanking the hon. Lady for bringing this important subject to the attention of the House.”
“I am pleased that we have announced that we will recruit 8,500 new mental health workers, who will be trained to support people at risk of suicide. The £10 million suicide prevention grant fund, which runs until March 2025, continues to provide funding to a range of voluntary and community organisations to support their work on suicide prevention. The hon. Lady made good points about loneliness and isolation. Suicide is a complex, multifaceted issue, and loneliness and isolation are particular risk factors for people in rural areas, such as farmers and agricultural workers. We are committed to tackling loneliness, including by providing advice on loneliness as part of the “Better Health—Every Mind Matters” campaign.”
“The Farming Community Network, Lincolnshire Rural Support Network, the Farmer Network and You Are Not Alone are all in receipt of funding this year, and we will continue to work with third-sector organisations to keep delivering support into the future. On suicide prevention, we are working across government to improve mental health and access to services. I pay tribute to everyone who is working to raise awareness, and I encourage those who are struggling to reach out for help. We recognise the points about isolation and difficulty in asking for help, so we are giving mental health the same attention and focus as physical health. We want everyone to be confident about accessing high-quality mental health support when they need it.”
“I do not have much time, so I will not go into a whole range of detail, but extreme weather events, such as floods, and the pressure of disease clearly put additional stress on people; we fully appreciate that. We will continue to seek out opportunities to support people. Today I have agreed to continue the funding for the Farming Community Network, which supports communities affected by bovine tuberculosis; we are putting in place a three-year contract, starting on 1 December. That support began back in 2009, and it provides TB-affected farmers and their families with a national, free-to-access business and pastoral advice service. It has been successful, and we are very pleased to continue it. Furthermore, we continue to provide funding for several organisations that will deliver projects to address these issues.”
“Lady’s comments about the impact on women, and we will continue to work with the full range of farming charities. I particularly echo her comments about amazing organisations such as the Farming Community Network and the Royal Agricultural Benevolent Institution, and I very much recognise the points about the survey; indeed, the hon. Member for Glastonbury and Somerton (Sarah Dyke) and I were on a panel discussing this very issue with Yellow Wellies last year. We are supporting the mental health and wellbeing of our farmers, and in the coming weeks I will invite charities and other stakeholders with expertise in this area to discuss how we can grow a better national support system for farmers.”
“I thank the hon. Member for Chester South and Eddisbury (Aphra Brandreth) for introducing this very serious debate in such a calm and measured way befitting the seriousness of the subject. Let me start by extending my sincere condolences to all those who in recent times have lost loved ones, and to their friends, families and communities. Every suicide is a tragedy that has a devastating and enduring impact on families and friends. I absolutely recognise that farmers face challenges on many fronts, and we will do everything we can to safeguard the mental health of people working in the sector. In recent years there has been a growing awareness of the importance of mental health in the sector, which I absolutely welcome; I agree with the hon.”
“I welcome the hon. Lady’s commitment to supporting young people. It is certainly one of my passions to ensure that we transform the system to make it easier for young people to come into farming and prosper. I am on a perpetual tour of the country, and I am sure that I can find a time and opportunity to meet her and her young people. I look forward to doing so. In conclusion, the Government are committed to supporting farmers and agricultural workers in accessing the support that they need to protect their mental health and wellbeing. We will work to tackle loneliness and isolation in rural areas. We will ensure provision of high-quality, accessible mental health support. We are determined to support farmers as they do the vital work of producing food and looking after nature and the environment. Question put and agreed to.”
“The penalty will be an unlimited fine in England and Wales or a fine limited to level 5 on the standard scale in Scotland. In conclusion, we are taking a risk-based approach to regulating trade in order to minimise the burden on industry while preventing circumvention of the live exports ban. The regulations are vital to enforce that important animal welfare measure.”
“The regulations create a power to prevent the movement of animals by issuing a hold notice where inspectors suspect that the animals may be exported for slaughter. Local authorities are given a power of entry and inspection in relation to premises, including vehicles, vessels and dwellings, in cases where inspectors believe that an offence is being, has been or is about to be committed or where there is believed to be evidence of an offence on the premises. That includes a power of entry to private dwellings, subject to the obtaining of a warrant. Exporters of livestock and horses must retain export records for three years and provide them to an inspector upon request. Failing to keep such records will be an offence, as will failing to comply with a hold notice or obstructing an inspector.”
“We are therefore working closely with stakeholders, who know their industry best, to find the most effective solution to prevent horses from being exported for slaughter. We have established a co-design group and expect to present specific measures on horses for consideration by the House next year. In addition to pre-export controls, the regulations give the APHA and local authorities regulatory and enforcement powers, which may be used in relation to livestock and horses should investigative or enforcement action prove necessary. The APHA will be able to suspend or revoke a transporter authorisation where evidence exists of non-compliance with the live exports ban. There will be an appeal route, first through reconsideration by the APHA and then, if that is unsuccessful, to the first-tier tribunal.”
“The intention is to minimise circumvention of the ban and any need for enforcement action. We have worked with the National Beef, Sheep and Pig Associations and with the British Pig Association to set up a process through which they will assess and verify evidence provided by journey organisers. This will be a recognised and straightforward route for journey organisers to supply the APHA with the required evidence. We are doing this because industry is familiar with working with the national associations, particularly on breeding exports, and we believe that that will encourage engagement and compliance with the new requirement. It is important to be clear that these pre-export controls do not apply to horses. Given the more varied nature of horse movements, the situation is more complex.”
“The regulations give powers to the Animal and Plant Health Agency, as the regulator for animal welfare during transport, and to local authorities, which are responsible for enforcement. A key feature is that they strengthen the pre-export controls that the APHA already undertakes for livestock. Transporters of cattle, sheep, pigs and goats to a third country are already required to submit a plan of the journey—the journey log—for approval by the APHA before the journey commences. They will now also be required to provide evidence of the purpose of the export or transit journey. Before approving the journey log, the APHA will need to be satisfied that the consignment will not be exported for slaughter or fattening—I am sure that that will be welcomed across the House.”
“I beg to move, That the Committee has considered the draft Animal Welfare (Livestock Exports) Enforcement Regulations 2024. It is always a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Mr Stringer. The regulations were laid before the House on 12 September and provide the powers necessary to implement and enforce the live exports ban in the Animal Welfare (Livestock Exports) Act 2024. They create a robust enforcement regime that builds on existing requirements for animal welfare in transport, while ensuring that the impact on industry is minimised. The regulations apply across England, Scotland and Wales to ensure a uniform, consistent approach to implementation and enforcement of the ban across Great Britain.”
“I thank the Opposition spokesperson for his generous words and for the work he did in government—the regulations clearly conclude the work done by the previous Government, and we are happy to introduce them. The Government are committed to upholding the highest standards of animal welfare. That is why we are putting in place these provisions to ensure that the ban on live exports for slaughter is implemented and enforced effectively. Question put and agreed to.”
“We have put in place strong foundations on which to take forward future agreements to benefit both our shared fish stocks and our respective industries. Our working relationship with the EU on fisheries matters remains strong. As we are debating here today, DEFRA officials are commencing the fifth set of annual consultations with the EU, in which we will set fishing opportunities for 2025. However, I should point out that although we may be close partners with the EU, the significant difference is that, now, the future of fisheries is not driven by the relationships; we are masters of our own destiny.”
“The motion’s reference to the future of fishing “after 2026” hints at our relationship with the European Union, as hon. Gentlemen have suggested. As a Government, we have been very up front in talking about the need to reset our relationship with the European Union, and of course we will work closely with our near neighbours to identify areas where we can strengthen co-operation to our mutual benefit. Of course, 2026 is the year when the temporary adjustment period for fisheries access ends, as described in the UK-EU trade and co-operation agreement. During the adjustment period, DEFRA—I pay tribute to my predecessors; they worked hard on this—has successfully concluded four annual negotiations with the EU since 2020. That has shown that we have the ability to build a strong relationship on fisheries matters with the European Union.”
“It is a dangerous industry, and we should pay tribute to all those who put their lives at risk to secure our food supply. To move on to the broader picture of what this Government are trying to achieve, my right hon. and learned Friend the Prime Minister has talked about the missions that will drive the Government, and our fisheries have an important role across several of those priorities—certainly, as I have said, in relation to food security, but also by helping us to protect our marine environment, which is so important. As we have heard, there are often many more jobs onshore, so our fisheries also have a key role in boosting regional economic growth, and in general, better fisheries management will be helpful as we tackle the huge challenge of nature recovery, which is so important for the future of us all.”
“One thing that struck me about all the contributions is the recognition of just how significant the fishing industry is, and not just as a food producer; it is culturally significant to our sense of identity in this country, particularly in the remote coastal communities. As well as having a really important role, fishing is a dangerous and difficult job. We should all be conscious of the risks that fishers face as they go to work. Just last week, those risks were brought home to me when I heard about the difficulties of the Fraserburgh-based vessel, Odyssey. I welcomed the comments from the hon. Member for Aberdeenshire North and Moray East (Seamus Logan) —I visited Fraserburgh and was very impressed by what I saw. Six crew members were rescued from that vessel, which is welcome news to us all.”
“Friend the Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Torcuil Crichton), who always speaks powerfully on behalf of his constituents. I listened closely, as always, to the contribution of the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). He is right; I have been talking to all the fisheries organisations over the last few months, and I understand his points on scampi and herring. I also listened closely to the contribution from the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Richard Tice), particularly about the European Union. I suspect it will come as no surprise to him that I do not entirely agree with his analysis, but I look forward to continuing the debate. I am afraid that there are probably others I have missed, but I will come back them.”
“He is absolutely right about the historic strength of Great Yarmouth’s fishing sector. I know Yarmouth reasonably well, and those were halcyon days. The world has changed for a variety of reasons. I do not necessarily agree with his historical analysis, but it is always important to remember what a great industry it was and—to reflect other contributions—what a great industry it will be again, because we really do have opportunities. I was delighted to hear interventions from my hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby and Cleethorpes (Melanie Onn) and the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael), the new co-chairs of the all-party parliamentary group on fisheries. I look forward to working with them closely over the months and years ahead. I very much enjoyed the speech by my hon.”
“It is a special pleasure to serve when you are in the Chair, Mr Efford. I thank all hon. Members for their contributions, and particularly the hon. Member for Great Yarmouth (Rupert Lowe) for securing this debate. I remember that in the last Parliament, a happy band of Members often used to assemble for fisheries debates. I suspect we will see the same people gathering over the months and years ahead, and I look forward to constructive discussions with them. This is a timely opportunity to talk about the UK’s fishing and seafood industry. It is such an important part of the UK’s food system and I welcome the chance to set out some of my views. I will briefly address some of the points raised by Members from across the Chamber. I listened closely to the hon. Gentleman’s introduction.”
“I would be delighted if you were to resolve all these issues, Mr Efford, but it falls to me. The hon. Member tempts me into a wider discussion about the reset with the European Union. I will speak carefully and limit my observations today to fisheries, but I will acknowledge that labour matters are a particular challenge for this sector, and there are benefits to be found if we can get a good outcome. The point that I was making is that we are now able to place our own domestic priorities—particularly the environmental, social and economic factors—at the centre of our priorities for UK fisheries.”
“We recently set up the UK seafood careers programme, which we hope will begin to help address the long-term challenge of how we boost our domestic workforce. That is very important. Changes to the apprenticeship levy ought to help too.”
“My hon. Friend raises an important point and allows me to follow up on the points raised by the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Keighley and Ilkley (Robbie Moore), which I have not yet addressed. Yes, of course: the distant fleet has had a challenging time, to put it mildly, so we are well aware of the need to try to achieve a fair balance across all sectors of the UK fishing industry as we look ahead to the negotiations. I can also reassure the shadow Minister on the fisheries management plans, of which we are consulting on a further five. In general, I would say that we are trying to secure a balanced outcome—as I am sure the Government in which he served did—that will benefit all sectors. The skills issue is very important.”
“I most certainly will. I greatly enjoyed visiting both the University of Lincoln and my hon. Friend’s constituency about a year ago, and I am sure I will be back again soon.”
“Our relationship with the EU remains important and sits alongside other relationships we hold as an independent coastal state. We will continue to meet our international obligations, including those of the TCA, and the default arrangements for access after 2026 are clear. There are many opportunities ahead for our fishing sector. The Government are committed to making the most of them to secure the industry and ensure that it can best contribute to our country’s food security and economic growth, but this will be driven by our own domestic objectives.”
“A number of initiatives we are undertaking will benefit those inshore fishers, including the provision of additional quota and new quota trials, which should help the inshore fleet in the long run. We are continuing to engage with the five regional fisheries groups that have been set up for inshore fishers to discuss concerns with policymakers and regulators to help identify problems, contribute to policy development and secure solutions. In conclusion, the future of UK fisheries will be driven by our domestic agenda. We have domestic frameworks, including the Fisheries Act and joint fisheries statements, and policies such as the fisheries management plans that are part of the improvements we seek to make. For many years, our fisheries management was dictated by the EU common fisheries policy. That is no longer the case.”
“Beyond FMPs, we are putting in place a wider set of fisheries management reforms, in line with our domestic priorities as an independent coastal state. They include changes to the way we manage discards, the introduction of remote electronic monitoring, trialling new ways to allocate quota, and the opening of new fisheries, such as for bluefin tuna, which I am sure the hon. Member for Great Yarmouth will welcome. We will of course be looking at all ways to reform and best support all UK fisheries sectors to help our fishing and seafood industries thrive and contribute to economic growth and the nation’s food security. We are also considering the role of inshore and under-10 metre fisheries, including those in my part of the world—the east of England—and how we can best support that sector.”
“The fisheries management plans will play a crucial role in supporting the long-term sustainability of fishing businesses and delivering growth in coastal communities. As I have said, they are internationally recognised as the gold standard in managing fisheries. They protect and, where necessary, set out how to maintain or restore fish stocks to sustainable levels. Progress is being made. We have now published a sixth plan and work is being done to implement actions in the previously published plans. Legislation was recently introduced that will bring into law a number of the fisheries management measures set out in those plans. As I said, we opened consultations on the next five FMPs on 10 October.”
“I again pay tribute to the previous Government; they set that process in train and we are pleased to continue it. We are grateful for the support of the fishing sector and wider stakeholders in helping to shape the plans; they are being developed collaboratively with the fishing industry, and I think they are probably being looked at elsewhere around the world as an example of how best to manage the complicated trade-offs in our maritime space. The spokesperson for the Liberal Democrats, the hon. Member for South Devon (Caroline Voaden), raised the spatial squeeze issue. We are very aware of that, and we will come back to the House with proposals in the coming months and years.”
“Members will be aware, a full and faithful implementation of the fisheries heading of the trade and co-operation agreement will see access for EU vessels to the UK zone become a matter for annual negotiation, which will sit alongside our annual consultations on catch limits with a range of coastal states and international fora on fishing opportunities. Let me repeat that our ambitions for fisheries are no longer tied to the EU common fisheries policy. We have our own objectives for our own UK fishing industry, and they are central to our priorities and to the thriving and sustainable fishing industry that we want. As I have already said, the fisheries management plans are a key part of the way in which we intend to take the industry forward.”
“It is our status as an independent coastal state that gives us the right to negotiate with others in the north-east Atlantic on management measures for mackerel, blue whiting and Atlanto-Scandian herring. Those are important stocks for the UK that sadly have been overfished in recent years because of the lack of proper sharing arrangements between the coastal states. We are pushing for comprehensive quota-sharing arrangements that are in the best interests of stock sustainability and of the UK catching and processing sectors. As hon.”
“I very much hear what the hon. Gentleman is saying. The visa issues are complicated but important, and there certainly could be opportunities if we can achieve the right outcome. The Fisheries Act 2020 set the broad outlines of where we will be going, and it and the joint fisheries statement that followed it detail the objectives for a thriving and sustainable fishing industry, which I know we all want to see. Since 2020, the UK has demonstrated its own approach to fisheries and to its role on the international stage. As an international coastal state, our relationship with the EU sits alongside our relationships with other international partners, as well as domestic partners.”
“That is not fair, it is not sustainable, and sadly, it has been used in some cases by wealthy landowners to avoid inheritance tax. That is why the Government have announced plans to reform agricultural property relief. The Secretary of State met National Farmers Union president Tom Bradshaw this morning. We absolutely understand— [ Interruption. ]”
“However, as we are all only too aware, the Conservatives left behind a £22 billion black hole in our nation’s finances— [ Interruption. ] Yes, you did. And this Government have had to take tough decisions on tax, welfare and spending to fix the foundations and deliver change, including a series of decisions on tax to protect the payslips of working people. That is possible only by making changes to other taxes, such as agricultural property relief, which was previously available to all agricultural property at a rate of 100%. Currently, small farms can find themselves facing the same levels of tax bills as much larger farms, despite having a much smaller asset. Twenty per cent of agricultural property relief is claimed by the top 2%; 40% is claimed by the top 7%.”
“I welcome the right hon. Gentleman to his place—he will make an excellent Chair of the Select Committee on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs—and thank him for the opportunity to talk about this important issue. As the Minister for Food Security, I can assure the House that food security is national security. The Government’s commitment to supporting farmers and rural communities is unwavering. We have committed £5 billion in the agricultural budget over the next two years—the biggest ever budget for sustainable food production and nature recovery in our country’s history. We are also releasing £60 million to support farmers whose farms have been devastated by severe flooding, and investing £208 million to protect the nation from potential disease outbreaks that threaten our farming industry, food security and human health.”
“The Secretary of State met Tom Bradshaw this morning. We completely understand farmers’ anxieties about the changes, but rural communities need a better NHS, affordable housing and public transport, and we can provide that if we make the system fairer. The reforms to agricultural property relief mean that farmers can access 100% relief for the first £1 million and 50% relief thereafter—an effective 20% tax rate. That means that an individual can pass up to £2 million, and a couple up to £3 million between them, to a direct descendant, inheritance tax-free. Currently, 73% of agricultural property relief claims—”
“Seventy-three per cent of agricultural property relief claims are for less than £1 million. The vast majority of farmers will not be affected. They will be able to pass the family farm down to their children just as previous generations have always done. It is a fair and balanced approach that protects family farms while also fixing the public services that those same families rely on. It is part of a Budget that will restore economic stability and begin a decade of national renewal.”
“These are important points, and they should be treated seriously.”
“I thank the right hon. Member for his questions, which are serious and important, as one would expect. Let me start by pointing out that until 1992, this relief did not exist. The system has existed before and people have operated differently, although I accept it has been different for the past 30 years. Turning to the figures, I encourage people to reach for the detail—to look at the actual figures. The only thing we can go on is the claims, and the figures coming from the Treasury on claims for the last year available absolutely reflect that 73% figure. The right hon. Gentleman raises an important point about the ringfence; that point is under discussion, but I have made assurances that the devolved Administrations will be closely informed about, and involved in, what happens.”
“This policy can be helpful to family farms and protect them against— [ Interruption. ] The hon. Gentleman on the Opposition Front Bench says from a sedentary position that it will not, but it is people from his area who have been telling me about these problems. They repeated them constantly when we were in opposition, and here are a Labour Government doing something about it.”