Daniel Zeichner
MP for Cambridge · Labour · United Kingdom
“I recall, as a shadow Minister, visiting a major institution in the country and sending the management into panic when I asked them where the bus stop was to get back to the station.”
“My hon. Friend is absolutely right about the location of bus stops. I am so frustrated when I have taken the train to Cambridge, arrive at the station, see the bus, but have to walk 200 yards around the platform, come out of the station and walk 200 yards back to the bus stop, to find the bus has gone.”
“Devolution and local government reorganisation are different things. To be honest, they should probably be considered separately, but they have become so interlinked and intertwined in this debate that it is impossible to do so. If we are to have a stronger devolution settlement, it is right to spend more time getting it right.”
“I commend the Secretary of State and his team for their determination and resolve in the transfer to renewables. In the extraordinary and unprecedented weather that we are having at the moment I can assure the House that some shade would be really welcome in parts of the east of England.”
“I commend all the hard work that has gone into both the road map and the profitability review by the civil servants, the ministerial team and so many people across the sector, including Baroness Batters.”
“On that point about speculative building, I appreciate that the hon. Gentleman is probably not a fan of big, bold projects of this kind, but does he agree that there is a very good example just down the road in Cambridge?”
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“DEFRA also continues to work closely with sheep sector bodies on plans to enhance the statutory sheep movement reporting service over the next 18 to 24 months; I think the shadow Minister raised a question about that issue. Finally, DEFRA supports the sheep sector through conserving valuable genetic resources to help to increase sustainable food production and help breeders to adapt to climate change and new diseases. DEFRA research is also exploring how genetics can help farmers to increase productivity while mitigating greenhouse gas emissions. I thank all hon. Members for their contributions. I expect that we will be having further discussions; I have to say that my experience of Westminster Hall debates on this sector is that there has always been a relatively small group of interested people.”
“We decided to permit the use of the currently available vaccines for this virus serotype under certain circumstances. However, I am advised that they only reduce clinical signs; they will not produce immunity to the disease. Animal keepers will need to work closely with their vets to make a decision on usage. The animal health and welfare pathway is live. It enables farmers with more than 21 sheep registered in England to apply for funding to improve animal health and welfare. That service provides diagnostic testing for priority diseases and conditions, alongside bespoke advice to improve health, welfare and biosecurity, supporting the responsible use of medicines, including antibiotics.”
“We are now looking at it and will make announcements in due course. Welfare and disease issues are very important to this Government. We are alive to the challenges and threats posed by lameness and by diseases such as bluetongue serotype 3 and peste des petits ruminants. New controls suspending personal imports of certain sheep and goat commodities, such as unpackaged meat, were announced on 21 August to safeguard Britain’s sheep and goat populations from PPR. The shadow Minister queried the work that we are doing on bluetongue. Clearly there were outbreaks in Norfolk some 10 days ago; we are deploying the tried and tested procedures for animal disease control, with which I am sure he is familiar, in response to the cases found in Norfolk and Suffolk.”
“In the supply chain, we absolutely recognise that fairness is important. We want farmers to get a fair price for their products and are committed to tackling contractual unfairness where it exists. We will continue to work closely with stakeholders from all sectors on how best to achieve that. Jointly with the Welsh Government and in tandem with the Scottish Government and the Northern Ireland Government, DEFRA has consulted the industry on proposals for a new carcase classification and price reporting system; the shadow Minister raised a query about that. We understand the importance of the new system to the sheep industry in providing stronger price certainty by setting out a clear, consistent and robust scheme for carcase classification and price reporting. The consultation closed in March 2024.”
“We hope that it will offer a wider range of actions and greater flexibility. I have already touched on the trade and border issue. We are absolutely determined to make sure that our trade strategy promotes the highest food production standards. The UK is a net exporter of lamb and mutton; it exports approximately a third of domestic production. More than 90% of exports go to EU destinations. The Government recognise the continuing importance of the EU as one of the sector’s biggest export destinations and, as I have said, we recognise the importance of negotiating a new agreement to prevent unnecessary border checks while maintaining biosecurity. We will also support our farmers by setting a clear target for half of all food purchased across the public sector to be locally produced or certified to higher environmental standards.”
“They include a range of actions to support arable farmers, including the management of herbal leys and winter cover crops. They have been designed to support farmers who wish to reintroduce sheep and other livestock to their arable rotation, which is certainly a very salient issue in my part of the world, the east of England. There are opportunities for sheep enterprises as part of sustainable farming systems to introduce livestock to some farms that have not had them for more than a generation. Anyone who goes around the east of England will see the evidence that there was a different farming system in the past. The expanded sustainable farming incentive also includes an improved offer, which has been much demanded—and, I hope, welcomed—by upland farmers, including sheep farmers.”
“I reiterate our full commitment to those schemes. I would not believe everything that one reads in the newspapers about budgets: there is a spending review process going on and announcements will be made in due course, but our commitment to the agricultural transition to a different form of farming is absolute. We will be trying to improve those schemes; as the shadow Minister acknowledged, there is room for improvement. We will make sure that they produce the right outcomes for all farmers, including sheep farmers, and the wider industry and that they ensure food security and nature recovery in a just and equitable way. The schemes work across the country, supporting a wide range of grassland and moorland types, including action to support productive improved grasslands, extensive low-input grasslands and grazed priority habitats.”
“It is very important to make the supply chain work more fairly and to prevent shock rises in bills by tackling energy prices through GB Energy. We want to help protect farmers from flooding, through a new flood resilience taskforce. We will use the Government’s purchasing powers to back British produce. Overall, we will achieve a new deal for farming by listening closely to people on the frontline, in this case sheep farmers and everyone who has a stake in our food and farming system. The Government are looking at the data and will set out detailed plans in due course. I was delighted to attend the National Sheep Association’s 2024 event in Malvern, which gave me a chance to listen, learn and say a little about our plans for the future. Several hon. Members touched on the farming budget and environmental land management schemes.”
“Sheep farmers, I am glad to say, are experiencing record high prices: prices in June 2024 were up 24.4% year on year and 42.5% higher than the five-year average, with further benefits coming from stronger export markets, and with new markets such as the United States opening up. Hon. Members made important points about past trade deals. I do not think we need to rehearse the arguments; certainly we on the Government Benches know what happened, and it is really important that we learn lessons for the future. Issues around our relationship with the European Union are very important as we go into renegotiations. Many of the points that have been raised would be dealt with by negotiating a better phytosanitary agreement, as this Government are very much committed to doing.”
“I echo the points made by Opposition Members: we commend sheep farmers for all their work to provide us with products that meet such high environmental and welfare standards and to support the domestic food supply chain and strong export markets. They play a very important role in supporting rural communities, with some 150,000 jobs contributing to economic growth. Sheepmeat production was worth £1.6 billion in 2023 and is crucial to our food supply chains. Sheepmeat is a protein-rich food that is produced in often challenging environments that are not necessarily suitable for other livestock.”
“Friend the Member for North Northumberland (David Smith), whose points about the need for new entrants were very well made. Long-term parity is absolutely required by the sector. The land use framework has been long promised and we will be working on it with urgency. I was also struck by the contribution from the Member for the Western Isles, my hon. Friend the Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Torcuil Crichton). I was in Shetland recently, where there are similar issues, I suspect. The points about crofters are very well made. I absolutely respect the role of the Scottish Government, while reflecting the points that I have already made about the role of the UK Government. The UK Government are grateful to our sheep farmers.”
“I have been to all four in the past few months to try to start the process of building a closer relationship, absolutely respecting the devolved Administrations and devolution settlements but also recognising the importance of the UK Government’s working closely with them. Most of all, I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham (Joe Morris) for bringing forward this debate and raising points of considerable importance to the sector in what I thought was an excellent introductory speech. I am very fond of his constituency; I remember being at the northern farming conference a few years ago. I look forward to working closely with him. We have had some excellent contributions. Among those from Government Members, I particularly commend that of my hon.”
“It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Dr Huq, and to follow the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Keighley and Ilkley (Robbie Moore). I am sure that a number of us will spend a lot of time in Westminster Hall debating issues in the months and years to come. There was always a positive and constructive relationship, in particular with the junior Ministers at DEFRA, and I am sure that that will continue. I welcome the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, the hon. Member for Glastonbury and Somerton (Sarah Dyke). I was struck by how the debate covered all four countries of the United Kingdom.”
“Member for South Holland and The Deepings nodding wisely because he knows to what I refer, and I am pleased that we have all moved on and can agree on the notion that food production is so important.”
“One of the Government’s five missions, which I am sure people have heard much about, is our commitment to making Britain a clean energy superpower. That is part of a wider ambition to deliver on existing net zero emissions targets. Farming has a big role to play in contributing to net zero; 70% or so of UK land is used for agriculture, and farmers are custodians of the natural environment. They absolutely work hard to manage their land responsibly while providing the food we all need. I am glad that there is now consensus around the need for farmers to produce food. There was a curious period a few years ago when it seemed as though food production had somehow been forgotten. I can see the right hon.”
“It is important for this Government that where communities host clean energy infrastructure, they should directly benefit from it. However, we will not get into a position where the clean energy that we need does not get built and the British people end up paying the price. Credible external estimates suggest that ground-mounted solar used just 0.1% of our land in 2022. The biggest threat to nature, food security and our rural communities is not solar panels or onshore wind; it is the major climate crisis, which itself threatens our best farmland, food production and, indeed, the livelihoods of farmers. The Government will absolutely proceed on the basis not of hearsay and conjecture, but of evidence.”
“We have to face up to the challenge of an energy transition to achieve that, and in doing so must plan how we will use land in this country to ensure a proper balance between food security, restoring and preserving nature, and clean energy. I was interested to hear the observations from Opposition Members after their 14 years of opportunity to do the things that they are now keen to do, but we will pick up on many of their suggestions. Certainly one of the key ones will be to publish a land use framework; that was promised by the previous Government, but there were many delays, and we are now picking that up. It will work in tandem with our spatial energy plan. I can assure the House that communities will quite rightly continue to have a say on proposals for their area.”
“The very title is a clear statement of this Government’s commitment to rural areas, and as has been said, this Government absolutely recognise that food security is national security. That is why we need a resilient, secure and healthy food system that works with nature, but also supports British farmers. This Government are offering a new deal for farmers to boost rural economic growth and strengthen Britain’s food security, and we will set out more details in due course. Frankly, climate change is one of the most significant threats to our food security. We have seen it this year in the extreme weather events that farmers are having to deal with. It is absolutely the case that taking the difficult decisions now to address climate change will enhance, rather than threaten, our food security.”
“Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and it is very good to see you in your place. I thank the right hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Sir John Hayes) not only for his very kind words and warm welcome, but for his customarily thoughtful speech, and not least his very comprehensive account of his wonderful county of Lincolnshire and the huge contribution that it makes to our food production. I also thank the other hon. Members who made very thoughtful contributions to the debate. I cannot tell the House how delighted I am to stand at the Dispatch Box on the Government side of the Chamber for the first time as Minister for food security and rural affairs.”
“I hope that makes it clear that all objections, relevant evidence and points raised throughout the planning inquiry are addressed and given weight in coming to a planning decision. I appreciate that the decision letter is a long, complex document, as indeed it should be, given the important issues raised. There is a limit to what I can say, as I am bound by the planning propriety guidance, which is clear that during the legal challenge period, planning Ministers and officials cannot comment on the decision, summarise it or interpret it.”
“We will work with farmers to ensure that we avoid imposing unnecessary costs, and—this, I hope, will be welcome to many in the sector—we absolutely guarantee that we will protect farmers from being undercut in trade deals. The right hon. Member, as I rather anticipated, mentioned solar in particular. As with all major infrastructure projects, there is a rigorous application process, and food production is rightly considered in it. I point hon. Members to the decision letters on these solar projects, which are available on the Planning Inspectorate website. That is the normal procedure in planning decisions. All the documentation will be found there, not just the final decision letters.”
“The right hon. Member tempts me into a level of detail that I am afraid I am not prepared to go into this evening. We are examining all these issues and will come to a considered position. We want to get the balance right and that is what we will do, because the transition to more climate-friendly practices does not need to come at the expense of food production or farm profitability. In our view, net zero can absolutely support economic growth, including by accelerating the uptake of innovative technologies to increase productivity and efficiency in the agriculture sector. That, in turn, will support net zero food production, the efficient use of land and nature recovery. Our intention is to work closely on that necessary transition with not just the farming industry, but all stakeholders involved.”
“As ever, most importantly, I thank the right hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings, and not just for securing the debate today. I am sure the debate will continue, and I look forward to conducting it in the same constructive manner in which we have started it tonight. Question put and agreed to.”
“That is under consideration, and we will come back to that in due course. I note that, where appropriate, solar projects can be designed to enable continued livestock grazing. There is also a science of agrivoltaics developing, in which solar is integrated with arable farming in innovative ways. Solar energy can be an important way for farmers to increase their revenue from land less suited to higher-value crop production. There is also evidence that solar can improve biodiversity. We recognise that, sadly, confidence among farmers is at a record low, but this Government want to change that. We look forward to working closely with farmers to strengthen food security, progress the energy transition and boost rural economic growth. I thank everyone who has contributed to an interesting and informed debate.”
“Thank you, Mr Speaker. Indeed, some are more positive about the improved connectivity potential in and around Cambridge, but the Minister will be aware that his colleagues in the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities recently established the Cambridge delivery group, which is looking to create 150,000 additional homes, which will in turn create a whole series of transport challenges. Will he tell the House what structures are in place to ensure proper dialogue between his Department, DLUHC and East West Rail?”
“We have had capping exercises that have had to be reversed, entitlement requirements that now seem challengeable, fisheries management plans being rolled out at eye-watering speed, with little understanding of why some stocks were chosen, and several failed starts of the inshore vessel monitoring system, with type approvals certifying items of kit—then suspending them, before subsequently being reinstated and removed—all after some fishers had followed Government guidance and rushed to install them. They have had to endure the CatchAPP, which they were told was fit for purpose when it was not. All of that comes against the backdrop of new codes issued by the Department for Transport, via the Maritime and Coastguard Agency.”
“We know from the fascinating correspondence between the permanent secretary at DEFRA and the Secretary of State, to which I have already referred, that pollack has been in decline for many years. I ask the Minister: how many other stocks have been poorly managed and are at risk of big reductions and zero TACs? He may wish to say none but, if he does not, I suspect we can fear the worst. Pollack is just the latest problem demonstrating that the sector has been let down. The Brexit promise of protection to 12 miles was a pie-crust promise, easily made and broken, like so many others.”
“I and many others would be grateful if he could take another look at the scheme, to see what could be done to support those who so far have been forgotten. I will not say too much about the ministerial direction that was required to introduce this scheme, but it is, at best, unusual. I wonder whether the Minister could tell us, in his recollection, how often it has been needed. I am also interested to hear the plan for managing the angling sector’s catch and retaining of pollack, as we have heard. Almost 12 months after the International Council for Exploration of the Seas published its advice on zero total allowable catch, why has there not been a consultation to consider whether legislation should be brought forward to track and limit recreational catches?”
“Most recently, the pollack debacle has left so many of these vessels without fishing opportunities for part of the year and with a compensation scheme that, frankly, seems to many to have been rushed through without consultation, with many not receiving much-needed help. Although I understand that the 30% bar set for the scheme may sound reasonable, it does not take sufficient account of those small-scale fleets that earn modest incomes of £20,000 to £30,000 a year, and the hardship caused by losing 20% of their income, with no opportunities to replace it. I hope the Minister will tell us who fed into that policy and why it was decided that these artisan fishermen would receive nothing.”
“I, too, pay tribute to organisations such as the Seafarers’ Charity, the Fishermen’s Mission and the other charities that help to fund and support our small-scale fleets with mental health and financial support for households when families find themselves without a safety net and nowhere to turn. As we have heard, this debate is timely with the National Fishing Remembrance Day events held a few days ago. It is indisputable that this sector has struggled in recent years, lurching from one crisis to the next, leaving these micro-businesses, often single-handed owner-operators, to try to piece together a living against a backdrop of, too often, knee-jerk fisheries management.”
“I should say at the outset that we are discussing under-10-metres, but I am mindful that that can seem an arbitrary definition that came into force long ago and perhaps does not properly recognise the differences between a 7-metre open-top boat that launches off a cobble beach and an under-10-metre twin-rig trawler or a 15-metre clinker-built wooden boat, with less power and catching efficiency than some under-10-metres. It is perhaps time to consider whether one size fits all. These brave fishers who set sail in the smallest of our boats, risking their lives to bring us fish suppers, are in many cases having a really challenging time. The stress and anxiety around the coast are palpable, as we heard in many of today’s contributions.”
“It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Ms Rees. I congratulate the hon. Member for St Austell and Newquay (Steve Double) on securing this debate, because the inshore small-scale fleets are vital not just to the fishermen and their families, who rely on them for household income, but, as we have heard, to the shore jobs that they sustain and the wider benefit that those iconic fleets deliver across their coastal communities. There is rightly a proud heritage of fishing at the heart of our coastal towns and villages, not just in the south-west but across the country. It is not unusual to meet fishermen who can trace their fishing families back many generations. I recently met one in Beer who can trace his family’s fishing roots back to the 1600s.”
“Finally, I urge the Minister to consider the way in which fisheries management plans and other workstreams have been developed. If he really wants to see more engagement from the sector—if he genuinely wants those people’s views and input—he needs to direct those conducting meetings not to hold them in the middle of the day in the middle of the week, thereby forcing fishermen to choose between losing sea time and earnings, and to consider the cumulative impact of having separate organisations running multiple consultations simultaneously. These are in the Minister’s gift to fix, so I would be grateful if he could commit to that. The under-10 fleet is critical to coastal communities. They are struggling, and more needs to be done to secure their future.”
“I will not, I am afraid, given that I am very pressed for time. It seems there was little consideration across Government as to the timing. On the issues raised about the Plymouth fish market, I welcome the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard). Is it any wonder that fishers feel persecuted and left behind? Good fisheries management and enforcement is vital to healthy seas, stocks and food security. Frankly, there can be no doubt that, while this Government have heaped new burdens of epic proportions on this sector in the past few years, they have not delivered their side of the bargain: coherent and considered fisheries management of opportunities, so that families can earn a living and businesses can plan their future.”
“What are the Government doing to support farmers? Quite a few people are asking that. When one looks at the evidence of what is going on, the survey this week from the National Farmers Union into farmer confidence revealed that a staggering 65% of farmers are facing declining profits, or their business will not survive at all. Their prospects are worse than most Tory MPs, it suddenly seems. Why is it that farmers do so badly under the Conservatives?”
“Why have the Government left businesses and even border chiefs in a position where they simply cannot plan properly and are left in the dark, as one put it, at one minute to midnight in terms of being told about the essential features of the new system? What is the Minister going to do to sort out the mess?”
“Can he tell the House how food vehicles will be controlled on that journey, as Dover Port Health Authority tells me clearly that they won’t? The Government have admitted that the cost will be an extra £330 million annually. Others say it will be more. What definitive figures can the Minister provide for the inflationary impact that this Government’s border measures will create for food supplies in the UK? What assessment has been made of the savings and efficiency that would be made if we were to achieve a better veterinary agreement with the EU? In conclusion, the British chambers of commerce says that DEFRA has failed to listen to industry over these changes. Others say the same. Many businesses are exasperated by the endless delays and the repeated and continual lack of clarity and certainty in the implementation of the new system.”
“We recognise the need to ensure the UK’s biosecurity, but I echo the points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy). What a mess. It is 29 April and the new checks are being introduced tomorrow, but the businesses involved are unclear about how the system is supposed to operate—and that is after the five delays that we have heard about and huge sums wasted on border control points. Perhaps the Minister can tell us how much has been wasted on Portsmouth, for instance. We want these checks to work. I have been to the London and the Dover port health authorities and been extremely impressed by the work that they do, but it is baffling that, in the battle against Asian swine flu, at Dover, the Minister is taking away vital funding, as the Government move the checks 22 miles up the road to Sevington.”
“We greatly welcome the fact that now the stocks of bluefin tuna are sufficiently replenished we are permitted a quota and we are in a position to open the fisheries. We will not oppose the legislation and will look for it to be successful in ensuring that the numbers of bluefin tuna continue to rise and that the new fisheries thrive.”
“Does the Minister have statistics on survival rates in catch and release? Are there plans to issue clearer guidance and/or training on the catch and release of bluefin tuna? I note that the introduction of charges for permits has been postponed. Can the Minister provide an explanation for the postponement and an update on any work that has been undertaken to determine the scope and scale of future charges, as well as how any charging income would be used? Perhaps she could shed some light on the overarching issue of how she and her colleagues arrived at the distribution of the UK’s quota between commercial and recreational fishing. I appreciate that she might not be in a position to answer everything today, so I will be happy if she writes to me later.”
“Similarly, what plans does the Department have for a smooth transition from the CHART programme to the full catch and release recreational fishery, ensuring that the transition does not impact fish welfare and mortality rates? As several stakeholders have stated, targeting bluefin tuna needs preparation, the right gear, and a high level of skill in handling a large pelagic fish. It is not a simple matter. Numerous responses to the consultation exercise expressed a desire for more guidance and training in catch and release techniques, which is not surprising as tuna can be a very big fish and it is sometimes extremely challenging to perform a catch and release operation properly. It is important that we do not damage the fish in the process of releasing them. I fear that without clear instructions and possibly training, that could happen.”
“The SI also allows recreational fisheries to open —the Minister referred to their social and economic benefits. I recognise that the fisheries are welcomed by many fishers. I appreciate the economic benefits that they bring, particularly to coastal areas that have been struggling, and also the valuable data collection that they facilitate, but I have some questions. Will the Minister explain how the Department has arrived at the number of permits it has decided to grant? Can she reveal any future plans to modify the number of permits and the rationale for doing so? It is important that a robust structure is in place for managing the fisheries, enforcing the rules and preventing illegal fishing. Will she provide assurances that a robust management regime will be in place before the fisheries are opened?”
“We recognise that it is very important for the UK to comply with rules and obligations relating to our membership of the international convention for the conservation of Atlantic tunas. We support the primary purpose of this SI, which is to ensure that the UK has in place a proper legislative framework and enforcement powers with regard to recreational fishing. As I say, we discussed commercial fishing a few weeks ago. The UK Administrations apparently do not currently have the power to comply with the ICCAT requirement to prohibit any recreational targeting of bluefin tuna unless specially authorised. We agree that this legislative deficit should be rectified for several reasons, including safeguarding the return of bluefin tuna and ensuring that the fishing stock is sustainable. Stocks need to be carefully monitored.”
“Credit should also go to the international interventions, through the international convention for the conservation of Atlantic tunas, which the Minister mentioned, to ensure careful management of the number of bluefin tuna. That is particularly impressive, given that they are highly migratory and mobile. We must learn the lesson from the absence of those important fish from our waters for so long, and take every appropriate measure to prevent a reversal of the successful interventions, perhaps through overfishing, and facilitate a continuing revival of the stock. Given the interest in fisheries management of pressured stocks in the south-west—particularly pollack—this should give us confidence that, when fisheries management is done well, it can be successful.”
“Perhaps the Minister can give us some insight into what is going on at the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs at the moment, because it is a puzzle to some of us. The Minister’s introduction was, as ever, thorough. We absolutely agree that the return of the magnificent bluefin tuna to British waters in recent years after a long period of absence is welcome. It is not entirely clear why stocks have been replenished so significantly. A range of environmental factors has been cited, such as the warming of waters around the UK, which has perhaps led to an increase in the supply of the fish that the tuna feed upon.”
“It is a particular pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Dr Huq, and it is always a pleasure to see the Minister in her place. I have to say that I was rather expecting to see the fisheries Minister this morning, and I suspect that yesterday afternoon he was expecting to be here. I hope he is in good health. I should say at the outset that the Whips need not worry: we will not oppose the instrument, as we welcome it. Only a few weeks ago, we discussed the Sea Fisheries (International Commission for the Conservation of Atlantic Tunas) (Amendment) Regulations 2024, and I was going to ask the fisheries Minister why the two instruments could not have been considered together.”
“and learned Member for Banbury (Victoria Prentis), declined our amendments, but we were strongly of the view that that would send a very strong message to people that if they are close to livestock, their dog should be on a lead. I would like us to return to that discussion, if possible, and consider including that provision in this Bill. More could have been done for those reasons, but, having said all that, I am grateful to the right hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal for promoting this Bill. We support it and I wish it well as it progresses through the House, but it would be good to strengthen it on Report, if possible.”
“I am not clear why a different approach has been taken with this Bill. The kept animals Bill would have effectively replaced the 1953 Act, but this Bill amends it and is quite different as a consequence. That includes the lack of a debate such as the one we had then—I am sure Members will remember it—about not just the control orders and disqualification orders but the very definition of “worrying livestock” in the 1953 Act. That led to a lengthy and complicated discussion about whether people should be expected to keep their dog on a lead when close to livestock. I am not sure why that has not been reintroduced, either. The then Minister, the right hon.”
“It was withdrawn, and we have not had the relevant protections for two and a half years, due to political management issues in the Conservative party. Leaving that aside, there were important points in that Bill, some of which have been brought forward in private Members’ Bills, although that is a chancy way of doing things. I was fortunate to find the bundle of papers from that period in my office earlier. I am glad that I did because, as the right hon. and learned Member for Torridge and West Devon and the right hon. Member for North West Hampshire said, the original kept animals Bill was a very different piece of legislation. It was much more comprehensive and introduced the notion of control orders and disqualification orders, which I think would very much address the points that have been raised.”
“Friend the Member for Croydon North (Steve Reed), on Second Reading, when he detailed a number of cases in offering the Opposition’s full support for the Bill, which I echo. It will not come as any surprise to the right hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal that I make the point again that we were discussing the kept animals Bill some two and a half years ago. I was delighted that she gave me the first explanation that I have heard for its withdrawal, but I am not convinced by it. That Bill was an extraordinary collection of things in the first place, and the only additions that I recall being made were some amendments—unhelpful ones, I suspect, from the Government’s point of view—from Conservative Back Benchers.”